I-40 re-signing in AZ

[corco]

It may not be a very important route, but at 40+ miles it seems worthwhile to at least sign.

It's weird- because it's not signed anywhere in Winslow where it concurs with 40 Business (including on the approach to I-40), and then BOOM there's this sign once you get on I-40

It's pretty much two different highways connected by a strange concurrency. It serves two totally different corridors- I'm not entirely sure why it isn't two different numbers.

[SSOWorld]

You mean to freaking tell me that I'm going to see nothing but clearview when I arrive in Arizona this Saturday? 

NO BUTTON COPY???

EWW!!!

[J N Winkler]

There is still some button copy left.  I would look first at I-19 (whole length), I-8 (Ligurta-Dateland), and the lengths of rural I-17 between Phoenix and Flagstaff which were left untouched by the 2010 signing procurement contracts.  For that matter, there is a fair amount of sheeting-only Series E Modified since Arizona DOT did a number of large sign replacements on I-8, I-40, Loop 101, and Loop 202 between 2000 (when button copy was dumped) and 2007 (when Clearview was adopted).

[Alps]

I saw plenty of button copy among the PHX freeways. Some had them, some didn't, and some had it in sections (like the 202). You can still spy colored loop shields at the 101/202 interchange and on some side streets intersecting either road - even on distance signs!

[corco]

Steve, You came at the right time- besides the occasional colored shields on side roads and the 202/101 junction you mentioned, pretty much all the button copy is gone now- they've been replacing it like crazy- every time I go up there (every 2-3 weeks), more is gone. The 60 is pretty much all Clearview now too- it wasn't just a month ago. The signage landscape is dramatically different compared to May.

101/202 might be gone too now- I haven't been that direction in a while

But yeah Scott, enjoy the button copy you do see. It's not quite super-rare yet, but it's getting that way very quickly.

[J N Winkler]

Are you talking about the Superstition Freeway portion of US 60?  There is nothing in the award listings for the past year which corresponds to that length of US 60, and I haven't heard of any new signing procurements.  I wonder if this is an in-house job.

[corco]

Are you talking about the Superstition Freeway portion of US 60?  There is nothing in the award listings for the past year which corresponds to that length of US 60, and I haven't heard of any new signing procurements.  I wonder if this is an in-house job.

Unless I'm nuts (I have been known to be nuts), yeah. I'm headed up there next week- I'll confirm, but I'm 90% sure the signs were now Clearview, at least between Price and I-10- 85% sure of east of there

I'm thinking I'm nuts- I'm going through photos from February when I last photographed it and the signs were a mix of Clearview and Series E(M), which I have a hunch is what's still on the ground. There was already no button copy on the 60.

I'm still fairly certain I saw Clearview where there didn't use to be when I was there two weeks ago- maybe it was along I-10 somewhere. I'll re-investigate.

[J N Winkler]

Yup, I was thinking most of the button copy on US 60 bit it when Arizona DOT did the HOV lane additions in the early noughties.  There was at least one contract, maybe two, and the one covering US 60 from I-10 east to Loop 101 (H573001C, engineers' seals on signing sheets mostly dated 2003-07-26) was ADOT's first major design-build contract.  The signing was all Series E Modified since Clearview was then still about three to four years in the future.  With the exception of knock-down replacements and the like, I wouldn't have expected to see wholesale Clearview conversion on US 60 just yet because the current signs are no more than eight or nine years old.  Of course, Arizona DOT occasionally does loopy stuff.

In any case, thanks for having a look at pictures to help clear this up.  The September 2010 signing procurement has made me paranoid about missing sign replacement contracts in Arizona.

[Alps]

Are you talking about the Superstition Freeway portion of US 60?  There is nothing in the award listings for the past year which corresponds to that length of US 60, and I haven't heard of any new signing procurements.  I wonder if this is an in-house job.

As has been resolved?, (what a situation for the question comma, if ever) US 60 was already fully reflective when I got there.

[J N Winkler]

As has been resolved?, (what a situation for the question comma, if ever) US 60 was already fully reflective when I got there.

That was already accepted as a given.  It would have been surprising if Arizona DOT had replaced the eight-year-old Series E Modified reflective signs with new Clearview signs.  I, for one, would not have been pleased about having to chase down another procurement signing contract--the seven I know about were already difficult enough to find.

BTW, last Friday ADOT opened bids on an I-8 Ligurta-Dateland signing contract (H773901C).  I think this stretch still has button copy since I don't think ADOT included it in any sign replacements after they abandoned button copy.  So that's more button-copy signs going up in smoke.  The latest I have heard about I-19 is that Arizona DOT will be replacing just the exit direction signs and other signs that do not have metric distance expressions in an upcoming contract, but I do not know if the signs that do have explicit units will be replaced in a later contract.  I am kind of hoping that local opposition will have dissuaded ADOT from re-signing I-19 in English units.

[SSOWorld]

I just drove I-40 from US-93 West to Flagstaff and I have to say that I'm glad that nearly all the signs were button copy still.  Also Steve's right.  Some freeways in Phoenix still have Button copy on them (10, 17)  Last time I was in Phoenix, 10, 17 and US 60 (which had the freeway only to Gilbert Road) were the only freeways.

[J N Winkler]

I visited Arizona for the first time (excepting an airport stopover in the mid-1980's) in 1998.  At that time, button copy was used for everything and considerable lengths of SR 51 and Loops 101 and 202 were open.  I-19 still had the metric signs that had been installed in 1981; it was not until a year later that two contracts were awarded to replace all the 1981 signs and bell the metric cat.

[SSOWorld]

I-19 is very confusing with the metric BGSs and the miles for the call boxes and speed limits.

[myosh_tino]

I-19 is very confusing with the metric BGSs and the miles for the call boxes and speed limits.

Not sure about the call boxes but posting speed limits in metric would have, at least initially, been a bad idea..

"But officer, I saw a sign the said the speed limit was '110', I thought it was 110 MPH, not 110 km/h!"

[J N Winkler]

Not sure about the call boxes . . .

I was under the impression that the call box numbering was keyed to the reference location markers along I-19, which are kilometer-based.

. . . but posting speed limits in metric would have, at least initially, been a bad idea..

"But officer, I saw a sign the said the speed limit was '110', I thought it was 110 MPH, not 110 km/h!"

The initial plan was to post speed limits in metric.  In 1981, when the metric signs went up, I-19 was subject to the double-nickel speed limit and the signing plans called for special metric speed limit signs containing "88" in a red circle above "km/h."  These signs would have been impossible to confuse with ordinary speed limit signs.  However, these sheets were cancelled by change order.  (I don't know the reason--the plans set I have, which is a scanned copy of the original in Arizona DOT Engineering Records, does not have a notation explaining the reason for the change.)

Some people have said in one or another of the roadgeek forums (possibly even this one) that these metric speed limit signs were installed briefly in 1980 or 1981.  Photographic proof so far is lacking.

[Bickendan]

When you say '"88" in a red circle above "km/h"', do you mean the international speed limit sign?

[J N Winkler]

When you say '"88" in a red circle above "km/h"', do you mean the international speed limit sign?

Not that specifically (it is on a circular blank)--rather, black digits in a red circle on a rectangular blank, as on the standard Australian speed limit sign.  There were also advisory speed signs of similar design, but with the circle black instead of red.  I drew these mockups from the original construction plans:



Note that the proposed speed limit sign is similar to that shown in the MUTCD since 2003 (as part of FHWA's continuing effort to provide a metric signing option) but omits the words "SPEED LIMIT."  In view of the fact that Oregon DOT has been pressured to use "SPEED LIMIT" signs (rather than "SPEED" signs) on Interstates, I think the metric regulatory speed limit sign may have been omitted in Arizona because it did not explicitly state "SPEED LIMIT."  The plans do not have a notation saying that the advisory speed signs were cancelled by change order and they may very well have been installed at some point.

[roadfro]

Note that the proposed speed limit sign is similar to that shown in the MUTCD since 2003 2003 edition (as part of FHWA's continuing effort at the time to provide a metric signing option) but omits the words "SPEED LIMIT."  ...

Fixed that for ya... The 2009 manual doesn't include metric versions of the sign. In fact, there's pretty much no metric units in the text of the manual at all--where I believe the 2000 and 2003 versions used metric as the primary units of measure.

[J N Winkler]

Thanks for this--when the 2009 manual came out, there was such a fuss about street name blades and the new philosophy for handling lane drops that I actually didn't notice the attempt to provide a "metric option" had been discontinued.  Frankly, this is something that could have been done with the 2003 edition because the metrication initiative (which covered just how highway components were specified for construction, not visible things like the explicit units on signfaces, and so was less controversial) was already moribund by then.