US-64 in New Mexico in the winter

[corco]

How bad is it, actually? I'm planning on driving across sometime in January- is there usually a lot of snow or is it just a lot of snow relative to that latitude?

Is it normally sort of that 35-50 MPH, no wind, plowed/packed "bad" or is it whiteout blizzard/massive drifts/impassable type bad? If it's the first kind that's no big deal, but if it's closed more often than not in the winter that's a bit of a problem.

Obviously that can vary a ton day to day, but is the weather often pretty bad there? And when it is bad is it usually just one or two passes or are the high valleys like around Taos bad too?

[J N Winkler]

I have personal experience of winter driving conditions on US 64 only west of Farmington and east of Taos, and I have not tried driving any part of it while snow is actually falling.  In my experience the Moreno valley length supports reasonably high driving speeds, but the mountain pass at the eastern end (which straddles the Colfax/Taos county line) is a long succession of closely spaced curves (advisory speeds in the 15-25 MPH range), many of which are in shadow in the winter.  This pass tends to hold onto its snow after the valley clears.  Farmington and the area west is basically high desert, so I don't consider snow to be too much of a concern in the winter.

Edit:  "Colfax/Union" (which is wrong) changed to "Colfax/Taos."

[corco]

Hmmm-all right! Cool. I'm thinking at its worst the passes are probably like Raton Pass, which can certainly be bad but there are many far scarier passes to drive over.

I'm mostly concerned with the area west of I-25 to Chama or so. I've already driven it west of Clayton and that's not too bad, and as you said once near  Farmington it's just high desert.

[The High Plains Traveler]

I'm mostly concerned with the area west of I-25 to Chama or so. I've already driven it west of Clayton and that's not too bad, and as you said once near  Farmington it's just high desert.

Keep in mind the segment between Tierra Amarilla and Tres Piedras (U.S. 84 and U.S. 285) reaches a maximum altitude of 10,500 feet. In Colorado that's nothing and the state keeps most of those passes open, but I think New Mexico closes U.S. 64 from the first heavy snowfall until spring melt. Seems I've seen "closed in winter" on maps for that road. From Raton west to Taos you go over 9000 feet but I haven't seen that segment posted as a routine winter closure.

[agentsteel53]

the mountain pass at the eastern end (which straddles the Colfax/Union county line) is a long succession of closely spaced curves (advisory speeds in the 15-25 MPH range), many of which are in shadow in the winter.

are we talking about the same US-64?  I was just out there, and US-64/87 east of Raton all the way to Clayton is almost entirely four-lane dual carriageway, and relatively flat without any curves under 40mph.

were you referring to the old 64, which is now several NM state routes, starting in Capulin as NM-325?

[J N Winkler]

are we talking about the same US-64?  I was just out there, and US-64/87 east of Raton all the way to Clayton is almost entirely four-lane dual carriageway, and relatively flat without any curves under 40mph.

Sorry about that--I mis-specified the county boundary (I was posting from memory, without checking an atlas first).  I meant Taos/Colfax, not Colfax/Union.  I do agree that US 64 is a smooth run west all the way up to Raton Pass.

Years ago, my parents had an accident on US 64 right at the Taos/Colfax county line.  They had been vacationing in Taos and, although it had snowed the previous night, it was clear and sunny when they left and they opted to take US 64 since that was more direct compared to NM 68/US 84-285 back to Santa Fé and then I-25 back north to Springer.  My father took the right-hand curve at the county line at about 25 MPH but lost traction as soon as he crossed into shadow and collided with a SUV coming in the other direction.  Neither my parents nor the ski instructor who was driving the SUV was injured, but I believe both vehicles were totaled.  There is a drop into a river valley which was protected by guardrail, otherwise the accident could have been much more serious.

I had a quick look at US 64 in StreetView.  Much of the imagery around Taos, including what seems to be the entire length between Tres Piedras (US 285 junction) and the east end of the Moreno Valley, was taken in winter after a recent snowstorm and shows the road clear down to bare pavement with heavy accumulation in the rangeland on either side.  The imagery between Tres Piedras and Tierra Amarilla (the length Steve says is likely to be subject to seasonal closure) seems to have been taken in high summer.  Google Maps shows several hairpins along this length but casual inspection in StreetView suggests the radii are large enough to accommodate comfortable cruising at up to 50 MPH when the road is clear.

[agentsteel53]

The imagery between Tres Piedras and Tierra Amarilla (the length Steve says is likely to be subject to seasonal closure) seems to have been taken in high summer.  Google Maps shows several hairpins along this length but casual inspection in StreetView suggests the radii are large enough to accommodate comfortable cruising at up to 50 MPH when the road is clear.

in clear weather, a relaxed drive will get you down to 25-35mph around the hairpin curves.  you can do 50 the whole way but issue your passengers barf bags first! 

[Truvelo]

The imagery between Tres Piedras and Tierra Amarilla (the length Steve says is likely to be subject to seasonal closure) seems to have been taken in high summer.  Google Maps shows several hairpins along this length but casual inspection in StreetView suggests the radii are large enough to accommodate comfortable cruising at up to 50 MPH when the road is clear.

in clear weather, a relaxed drive will get you down to 25-35mph around the hairpin curves.  you can do 50 the whole way but issue your passengers barf bags first! 

I did that section in June last year during record temperatures for that time of year. I did have a 300 horsepower car to climb the ascent rather effortlessly despite the elevation. Of course, in winter I suspect an SUV would be more practical

[The High Plains Traveler]

I did that section in June last year during record temperatures for that time of year. I did have a 300 horsepower car to climb the ascent rather effortlessly despite the elevation. Of course, in winter I suspect an SUV would be more practical
   

When I lived in Minnesota (no stranger obviously to winter driving conditions, albeit not mountain driving) my wife and I took a trip in 1997 to New Mexico in late October. Around here (my home since 2002) that period is known as "the blizzard of 1997."

One vivid memory as we coaxed our Dodge Caravan through what was literally a blizzard over Wolf Creek Pass (basically same elevation as U.S. 64 in this discussion) is following a school bus (!) who proved to be a savior in whiteout conditions so we stayed on the road. Later we saw one of those invincible SUVs on its back, a red tape stripe indicating that the State Patrol had rescued the occupants and passers-by need not concern themselves. We were stranded in Denver for two days until highways to the north and east opened so we could proceed home. Again, this is late October.

As a resident now of an area that has clear and dry winter weather 98% of the time and truly shitty winter weather the rest of the time I am particularly sensitive to those who think all you need in the Rockies is four-wheel drive to get by. My point here is that an SUV is not adequate to cross the Rockies with impunity during a major winter storm. If the state clears the highway afterwards then you are fine in any well-equipped vehicle. We got through the 1997 storm with a combination of luck, good tires, luck, winter driving skills especially with only a front-wheel drive vehicle, luck, patience, and luck. And as I stated above, I believe New Mexico does not keep U.S. 64 open over that unnamed 10,000 foot summit once it's closed by winter storms regardless of your vehicle.

[corco]

I'm from (a very heavily snowed region of) Idaho and Wyoming, so I have plenty of winter experience. I've been in Arizona for under a year, but before that I have 8 years of harsh winters under my belt, so I'm not worried about that part- as long as the road is open I am comfortable driving it (from a driving perspective- from a "I want to see as many sights as possible in a day and therefore want to keep my average speed up" perspective then maybe not)- it's just if it's closed that's obviously a problem.

I agree with all those points. 4WD is only useful if you're stuck and you need to get started again- once you're moving in a straight line there's basically no difference between 4WD and FWD/RWD- RWD obviously can be a bit more challenging around corners, and non-4WD can be tough when you're going uphill, but if you drive yourself into a ditch going uphill that's not the car's fault.

I agree that good tires are absolutely paramount- in order of importance from my experience
1. Skill
2. Tires
3. Transmission (manual preferred because you can use the clutch to vary the torque sent to the wheels, but even an automatic with manual gear selection is better than a pure PRNDL automatic- what you don't want is the car randomly shifting gears on you while you're driving on hills. I've never driven a CVT in snow- they'd either be really good or really really bad, I'm not sure)
4. 4WDness

And honestly, you could talk me into swapping 1 and 2 or 3 and 4. 3/4 is more personal preference. 1/2, well, the best snow driver in the world can't make a car go on an icy road with racing slicks.

But yes, once moving, the difference between an SUV and a non-SUV is pretty minimal. SUVs are a bit better on unplowed roads with a few inches of snow because of the added ground clearance, but in truly serious storms when there is two feet of snow on the road an SUV is just as useless as a passenger car.  

I don't see luck as really being a part of the factor on a rural highway. It definitely is if you're driving through a blizzard in downtown Denver, hoping that one of the hundreds of other cars surrounding you isn't an idiot, but if you're by yourself it's all skill. Unless an animal comes bolting out, the conditions are what they are and you have full control over what you're doing. If you cleared a challenging pass in a sub-optimal vehicle, give yourself credit for it- it means you're good at driving in snow.

It's for that reason I usually prefer to avoid interstates in the snow- I'd rather drive on a bad road with no cars on it than a slightly less bad road with hundreds of cars on it. I know I'm not going to drive myself into the ditch (I have somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 miles of driving on snowy roadways without going into the ditch (knock on wood) to make me feel comfortable in my own abilities), but I don't have control over what emergency maneuver some other car is going to make me perform that could land me in the ditch. I've had to do Laramie->Fort Collins in many a nasty storm, and I'm always more comfortable on 287 than I-25/I-80.

[The High Plains Traveler]

I agree with all those points. 4WD is only useful if you're stuck and you need to get started again- once you're moving in a straight line there's basically no difference between 4WD and FWD/RWD- RWD obviously can be a bit more challenging around corners, and non-4WD can be tough when you're going uphill, but if you drive yourself into a ditch going uphill that's not the car's fault.

I agree that good tires are absolutely paramount- in order of importance from my experience
1. Skill
2. Tires
3. Transmission (manual preferred because you can use the clutch to vary the torque sent to the wheels, but even an automatic with manual gear selection is better than a pure PRNDL automatic- what you don't want is the car randomly shifting gears on you while you're driving on hills. I've never driven a CVT in snow- they'd either be really good or really really bad, I'm not sure)
4. 4WDness

Your checklist is spot on. My only quibble is that with only two wheels to drive you, front-wheel is preferable on the straightaway, but if you get going too fast into a curve on an icy road you're toast. I speak from experience. Rear-wheel leaves you vulnerable to spinouts from unexpected icy patches but is better in the curve. For many years in Minnesota I drove a 2-WD small pickup with only snow tires and two bags of sand in the bed, and got around the Twin Cities metro area OK. I did quickly learn that depressing the clutch at the first sign of the rear end breaking loose was a lifesaver. Here I drive a full-size, 4WD pickup and while the additional drive wheels help with snow, they are useless in the phenomenon known as "flash freeze" - when a fast-moving cold front drops the temperature below freezing following rain on untreated roads. In that instance I have a 5500 pound hockey puck and sphincter control is foremost in my consciousness.

So travel that part of 64 in the summer (we did this year). 

[corco]

Your checklist is spot on. My only quibble is that with only two wheels to drive you, front-wheel is preferable on the straightaway, but if you get going too fast into a curve on an icy road you're toast. I speak from experience. Rear-wheel leaves you vulnerable to spinouts from unexpected icy patches but is better in the curve.

That's fair. Too fast with FWD around a curve and the car just doesn't turn, so all you can do is slow down, which can be bad if you're going way too fast. If you turn too sharp with RWD you start fishtailing, but at least the car still turns and you can recover from it.