States which require special access to clinch all roads

[agentsteel53]

Well, you have to pay to access M-185 during the summer.

the free option seems to be to take a 2.5 mile swim.  somewhat effortful (especially given the water temperature), but it can be done.

[TheCatalyst31]

CA 173 has an unpaved one-lane segment that's been closed to traffic since 2011.

[agentsteel53]

CA 173 has an unpaved one-lane segment that's been closed to traffic since 2011.

I believe the closure resulted in a decommissioning several months later.

[english si]

As far as national parks, a lot of U.S. highways and state highways aren't technically designated through the park. That might not be what cmap has though...

Only Yellowstone doesn't have US Highways, IIRC. Or rather, US routes end at the border of the park except US191 where it re-enters the park north of West Yellowstone. Oh, and US441 doesn't exist in Great Smoky Mountains NP

The question has been raised a couple of times on cmap and I think, eventually, the situation will be a more accurate representation of the reality there (and you'd be able to clinch all of Yellowstone's main roads).

[froggie]

I double-checked the HLR and a few other things regarding MD 24, and Oscar is correct.  The one route into Aberdeen Proving Ground where you may not be able to make a U-turn, going with the strictest definition, would be MD 755, as the terminus is actually at the gate and not at Gate Rd as CHM lists, but with that short of a distance one starts getting into a semantics argument (i.e. whether you're a "purist" or a "close-enough" sort).

[cpzilliacus]

Virginia has some secondary routes that are not open to the general public; for example, a few near my house that traverse Fort Belvoir used to be accessible but were closed off by the US Army after 9-11 and have never been reopened. There is also some small areas of secondary routes accessible only through North Carolina.

Some of those roads on the Fort Belvoir post are completely Jersey-walled off (case in point is Va. 618, Woodlawn Road - not clear to me if this was maintained by VDOT or the U.S. Army prior to 2001). 

1990's-spec VDOT signal hardware (including control box, signal heads and mast arms) remain (dark and disconnected) at the intersection of Beulah Street and Woodlawn Road (since I was there on official business, it was not appropriate for me to take any pictures).

[Duke87]

I kind of disagree on Arizona- there are no points where you can't get within about 100 feet of the border and turn around. I-19 ends on city streets that go clean to the border, and SR 189 has a u-turn lane. The others are all regular access roads. US 95 has a u-turn lane, and 85 and 286 are low traffic enough that you can flip a u-turn right at the border. 191 doesn't have a u-turn lane but there is an intersection right at the customs line.

I would count turning around "at" the border if you can get close enough to it to clearly see the place where the road crosses the border from where the turnoff or U-turn point. AZ 189 is my sticking point here - it has a U-turn lane, yes, but the location of the border is around a curve and behind some buildings from it, so you have not laid eyes on the entire road if you use it.

This as far as I am concerned is the only part of the Arizona state highway system which requires entering Mexico to clinch.

For purposes of this conversation though, with your strict definition- there's a few states out west (WY, UT, CO) where you have to pay a $25 park entrance fee to clinch the highway system. If that doesn't count, Wyoming is a "none."

A park entrance fee doesn't count as special access since really it's effectively just a toll. The parks are public and open to everyone.

For Hawaii, {...} HI 92 comes to mind -- if you're still on the highway west of Interstate H-1 exit 15, uninterrupted concrete median dividers force you to go through one of two base gates (fortunately, the guards seem nice about turning you around just past the gate, lost tourists happen to them a lot). 

It appears that you can make a right turn at Center Drive just before the gate and continue out to HI 99 without needing to clear security. Is this not true?

MD:  I'm pretty sure the state routes ending at or near military bases (such as MD 24, MD 152, and MD 715 to Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD 713 to Ft. Meade, MD 210) end at or before "restricted area" signs before the guard stations, where you can make a U-turn with no signs making that move illegal (traffic permitting, of course -- not a good idea heading toward the guard stations when there's heavy traffic leaving the base).

I am assuming that making a U-turn in the middle of the street across a double yellow line is illegal. Whether it actually is may vary from state to state but I was defintiely taught that it's something you're not supposed to do.

Is Centralia, Penn., still an obstacle to Route 61?

Route 61 technically exists on QR/SR 2002 nearby, chevrons points you in that direction. Consider it permanent really. Even if it says END SR 61 nearby.

If you really want to clinch the "destroyed" section of PA 61 you can do so on foot or using an ATV. I wouldn't say it's entirely necessary (although I have done it). If it is, I suppose you could consider that "special access", although I was thinking more along the lines of "roads which some individuals cannot legally clinch by any means", not "roads which cannot be clinched by car".

[bugo]

Do the prison roads in Arkansas have secret numbers?

[oscar]

For Hawaii, {...} HI 92 comes to mind -- if you're still on the highway west of Interstate H-1 exit 15, uninterrupted concrete median dividers force you to go through one of two base gates (fortunately, the guards seem nice about turning you around just past the gate, lost tourists happen to them a lot). 

It appears that you can make a right turn at Center Drive just before the gate and continue out to HI 99 without needing to clear security. Is this not true?

Hmm.  It wasn't when I last traveled that stretch of HI 92, but the gate and/or Center Drive might've been relocated since then to make that turnback option possible.  (The Center Drive intersection isn't shown in the 2012 straight-line diagrams, which have HI 92 ending at the gatehouse without no prior opportunity to exit except at another guarded gate, for the former Hickam AFB.)   So I stand corrected. 

[froggie]

I am assuming that making a U-turn in the middle of the street across a double yellow line is illegal. Whether it actually is may vary from state to state but I was defintiely taught that it's something you're not supposed to do.

It is true that it is discouraged, but Maryland state law only states, regarding U-turns, that drivers making a U-turn must yield right-of-way to those traveling in the opposite direction.  Nothing against U-turning across a double yellow line.


Regarding HI 92:  that side turn onto Center Dr has existed for over a decade, but from what I recall, HI 92's terminus is actually at the gate (especially eastbound), so if you turn there, you'd still technically miss the end of HI 92.

[Mapmikey]

Some of those roads on the Fort Belvoir post are completely Jersey-walled off (case in point is Va. 618, Woodlawn Road - not clear to me if this was maintained by VDOT or the U.S. Army prior to 2001). 

County maps suggest that the military may have been maintaining the SRs within the post from the mid 40s to the mid 60s.

SR 618 through Fort Belvoir was in the VDOT traffic count data reports through 2009.  While they do differentiate in these reports for maintenance for the primary routes, they do not do so for the secondary ones, which implies that any road with a secondary number is being maintained by the state.

On the other hand, the piece of Prince William SR 611 that clips a corner of Quantico MCB appears to be fully represented in the traffic log and I'm 99% sure there are END STATE MAINTENANCE signs where it enters base property (and part of it is signed as MCB-8).

But here is actual proof that VDOT was maintaining SR 618 and SR 613 through Belvoir...this is the 2007 MOU amongst several parties including VDOT that states outright on Page 2 that VDOT was responsible for maintenance and will be for the extended SR 619 Mulligan Rd project.

http://www.efl.fhwa.dot.gov/files/programs/moa/ft-belvoir-connector-moa.pdf

Mapmikey

[bugo]

I'm pretty sure BS 44 ends at the gate at Fort Leonard Wood.  MoDOT might maintain the road (but I doubt it, I'm certain that the military does) and they might have built it, but there are supposedly no BS 44 signs on base.

[oscar]

I'm pretty sure BS 44 ends at the gate at Fort Leonard Wood.  MoDOT might maintain the road (but I doubt it, I'm certain that the military does) and they might have built it, but there are supposedly no BS 44 signs on base.

There were definitely no BS 44 signs on base (or indeed anywhere south of its junction with BL 44), when I was there in July 2010.

Quite by coincidence, I've just heard about an "End State Maintenance" sign spotted at the gate.  I haven't checked Street View for the exact location of the sign, or whether there is a turnaround opportunity between the sign and the gate (there definitely is one somewhere before the gate, where I pulled off at an office to find out if I needed a visitor pass before driving to the gate).

[realjd]

Just a tip: if you do get caught unable to turn around at a military base gate, it isn't a big deal. It happens more frequently than you'd think. A quick "sorry, made a wrong turn" to the guard  will get you turned around and sent the proper way with no fuss. If there are signs for a visitor lane, follow them because they often have an exit/u-turn lane set up for visitors who are denied access.

[Jim]

Sorry for the bump on this old thread, but it seems more appropriate than starting a new one for a simple question.

As for NY, that "U-turn" (really a left turn, followed by another left on the other side of a median parking lot) between the end of I-781 and the Fort Drum guard station appears to be NOT illegal, as previously discussed elsewhere on this forum.  There are armed sentries at the gate, none of which lodged any objection when I used that turnaround.

Has anyone done this recently?  My upcoming travels will include I-81 through the Watertown area, and I'll definitely take I-781 from I-81 to US 11.  I'd like to get a full clinch by going up to this turnaround before the Fort Drum gate, but it's not worth it to me if it's going to cause the base guards or other authorities to get upset.

[Duke87]

Sorry for the bump on this old thread, but it seems more appropriate than starting a new one for a simple question.

As for NY, that "U-turn" (really a left turn, followed by another left on the other side of a median parking lot) between the end of I-781 and the Fort Drum guard station appears to be NOT illegal, as previously discussed elsewhere on this forum.  There are armed sentries at the gate, none of which lodged any objection when I used that turnaround.

Has anyone done this recently?  My upcoming travels will include I-81 through the Watertown area, and I'll definitely take I-781 from I-81 to US 11.  I'd like to get a full clinch by going up to this turnaround before the Fort Drum gate, but it's not worth it to me if it's going to cause the base guards or other authorities to get upset.

I did it in 2013. I had just as little trouble doing so as Oscar did. You should be fine.

[roadman65]

It really is the same as trying to clinch all of an interstate ending at an international border.  From what I heard at Houlton, ME the border patrol has been anal about taking pictures along the last section of I-95 before the NB border.

Or better yet clinching airport terminals now that you need to be a traveling passenger to get beyond security need special access is what some roads have.  With Military bases who has business to go there unless your invited there.

[noelbotevera]

This may count: Pennsylvania has a sort of special access example. PA 39 extends into the Hersheypark park limits on Park Boulevard. I think it ends at the Hersheypark park entrance.

[dfilpus]

This may count: Pennsylvania has a sort of special access example. PA 39 extends into the Hersheypark park limits on Park Boulevard. I think it ends at the Hersheypark park entrance.

AFAIK, PA 39 does not extend into Hersheypark. It makes a right turn from Hershey Road onto Hersheypark Drive and continues to the US 322/422 interchange.

[Super Mateo]

This may count: Pennsylvania has a sort of special access example. PA 39 extends into the Hersheypark park limits on Park Boulevard. I think it ends at the Hersheypark park entrance.

PA 39 turns onto Hersheypark Drive and heads back toward the west.  It ends at US 322.  At first, I got confused by the sign that said "East PA 39" while heading SW on the road.  Once we found US 422 we were fine, though.

[roadman65]

This may count: Pennsylvania has a sort of special access example. PA 39 extends into the Hersheypark park limits on Park Boulevard. I think it ends at the Hersheypark park entrance.

PA 39 turns onto Hersheypark Drive and heads back toward the west.  It ends at US 322.  At first, I got confused by the sign that said "East PA 39" while heading SW on the road.  Once we found US 422 we were fine, though.

Yes that is confusing there.  You head sort of west to go east.  You would think south of US 22 that it would be signed N-S, but PennDOT does not see it to be that way.

[Sykotyk]

I can definitely say I'm not a purist. The last legal spot for me to turn around clinches the road. Any special access or requirements are not needed for me. This also includes international borders. As long as I get to the last legal spot to turn around, I would count it (most borders have some last gasp U-turn before the border.

[froggie]

As for NY, that "U-turn" (really a left turn, followed by another left on the other side of a median parking lot) between the end of I-781 and the Fort Drum guard station appears to be NOT illegal, as previously discussed elsewhere on this forum.  There are armed sentries at the gate, none of which lodged any objection when I used that turnaround.

Has anyone done this recently?  My upcoming travels will include I-81 through the Watertown area, and I'll definitely take I-781 from I-81 to US 11.  I'd like to get a full clinch by going up to this turnaround before the Fort Drum gate, but it's not worth it to me if it's going to cause the base guards or other authorities to get upset.

Given how close that turnaround is to the gate, I'd be wary of using the U-turn like that, especially if one is taking pictures or if the security threat level is higher.  Oscar and Anthony may have been successful without arousing suspicion, but it's only a matter of time before someone else isn't.

With Military bases who has business to go there unless your invited there.

Some bases have public events now and then where they let the public on with adequate ID.  Some bases also give guided tours.

Or if you're riding into the base with someone who is either active duty or retired.  Or you ARE the person who's active duty or retired...likely not very many of them on this forum, but they do exist.

[CrystalWalrein]

For Louisiana, LA 1141 sits on Monkey Island, but the ferry hasn't operated in years.

[realjd]

Given how close that turnaround is to the gate, I'd be wary of using the U-turn like that, especially if one is taking pictures or if the security threat level is higher.  Oscar and Anthony may have been successful without arousing suspicion, but it's only a matter of time before someone else isn't.

If you do end up at the gate, just tell the guards that you're lost and made a wrong turn. It happens all the time and they'll just turn you around. Do NOT take pictures anywhere near the gate, even if you turn around before it.

Many bases like Fort Bliss are open to the public with just a drivers license.