New speed limit law fines slow drivers

[tradephoric]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJjtQKND4W8

[PurdueBill]

Drivers like the one in that video are who the laws are intended for.  Totally oblivious, committed to staying in the lane whether they are passing someone or not.  They might argue that they didn't want to speed up because of the cop behind them, but then they should have moved over.

[jakeroot]

If slow drivers in the left lane are becoming victims of road rage, then banning slow driving in the left lane in order to reduce road rage is simply legislating the victims' actions in order to achieve desired results from the perpetrators. 

There are plenty of laws in this country which seek to penalize the everyday actions of citizens, so as to prevent them from getting in harms way. Laws like not allowing people to warm their cars up in the morning while they aren't in it (someone could steal the car), to requiring vehicle occupants to wear seat belts -- both of these laws make citizens, who aren't really doing anything wrong, law-breakers. While these laws might seem ass-backwards (penalizing citizens before a heinous act occurs), they're effective, and that's all that matters.

What about violence committed by someone (or some group) who was offended by someone's speech or artistic expression?  Should we cut down on violence by allowing people not to be offended?

Yelling your opinion loudly on the street corner doesn't usually result in the death of others...driving according to your own opinions because "free speech" can. Thus, the road is no place for opinions (hence why we have driving laws to begin with?).

For what it's worth, I'm not advocating speeding. I'm simply saying that Suzie Homemaker, much like the speeder in the left lane, doesn't hold the ultimate opinion on what a safe speed is. Ergo, we have left lane laws to prevent the two from interacting.

Does a speeding ticket mean as much to a rich person as it would to someone struggling to afford car payments?  It's a fallacy to assume the system is just, no matter how one decides to sugar-coat it.

Anglo-Saxon law generally dictates that first-offense misdemeanors be punished by a warning or fine. Are you proposing something else?

[PHLBOS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJjtQKND4W8

Looks like I-287 in NJ.

[Zeffy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJjtQKND4W8

Looks like I-287 in NJ.

You're right - those empty gantries at around :20 seconds in the video I believe were used when I-287 experimented with HOV lanes - though I could be wrong. Regardless, it's definitely New Jersey, and I would venture I-287 as well.

As for the video itself, more cops need to do this. The law states "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS" - this guy was just derping in the left lane, which causes traffic to congest. There are a lot of left lane hogs in this state, but most of them just blow by you doing 20 above the limit. This guy needed to move his ass over. He could've gotten a ticket, but the cop decided to just troll the shit out of him, something I rather enjoyed.

[PHLBOS]

You're right - those empty gantries at around :20 seconds in the video I believe were used when I-287 experimented with HOV lanes - though I could be wrong.

That's what lead me to believe that it was indeed along I-287.  Addtionally, although the video is somewhat blurred; one can easily spot the NJSP markings on that white CVPI.

[DeaconG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJjtQKND4W8

Oh God I LOVE IT!

[PurdueBill]

Cross-post with "which is worse" thread, but oh well.  A seemingly rare and reasonable article about the Indiana law--although it's not an outright news article; it's Bob Dyer's column.  Still, much better than the "look out law-abiding drivers!" claptrap that has been out so much about the law.

[SidS1045]

If slow drivers in the left lane are becoming victims of road rage, then banning slow driving in the left lane in order to reduce road rage is simply legislating the victims' actions in order to achieve desired results from the perpetrators.

No.  The aim of the law is to eliminate one of the causes of road rage, which is lack of lane discipline.  Road rage does not occur unless something/someone causes it.  Left-lane blockers cause it.

The obvious comparison is to Germany, where LLB'ing on multi-lane roads is strictly forbidden and strictly enforced, as is the ban on passing on the right.  Making roads safe for high-speed travel means that, among other things, motorists must have a reasonable expectation that other drivers will operate in a safe and (as far as possible) predictable manner.  Allowing drivers to drive slower than prevailing speeds in any lane they damn well please is unpredictable and leads, as others have mentioned, to unsafe maneuvers by other drivers to get around the slowpokes.  If everyone knows that slow traffic keeps right except to pass and must yield the high-speed lane to faster drivers, that is predictable and therefore safer.

[signalman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJjtQKND4W8

Looks like I-287 in NJ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJjtQKND4W8

Looks like I-287 in NJ.

You're right - those empty gantries at around :20 seconds in the video I believe were used when I-287 experimented with HOV lanes - though I could be wrong. Regardless, it's definitely New Jersey, and I would venture I-287 as well.

As for the video itself, more cops need to do this. The law states "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS" - this guy was just derping in the left lane, which causes traffic to congest. There are a lot of left lane hogs in this state, but most of them just blow by you doing 20 above the limit. This guy needed to move his ass over. He could've gotten a ticket, but the cop decided to just troll the shit out of him, something I rather enjoyed.

Close.  That's I-80 WB in the Denville/Parsippay area.  They too had an experiment with HOV lanes and the empty gantries remain. 

I once saw a trooper do the same thing to a left lane bandit further west along I-80.  The driver did the exact same thing-refused to move over for the cop until he put his lights on.  The trooper then deposited the bandit in the right lane and the cop went on his way without pulling the driver over.  Sadly, the driver didn't learn his lesson.  Within 2 miles the vehicle was back out in the left lane for absolutely no reason. 

[UCFKnights]

I know we have this law in Florida.. haven't heard of it being enforced. I wish it was... the worst is a lot of people seem to just want to get out of the right lane as soon as they get on the highway, even if there is no one in front of them.

[JamesT456]

I know in Illinois we have one, but I never seen police enforce it, and I read in the news that it may not even be enforced in Indiana, the threat of a $500 fine should be enough that it be self enforced, and not be pulled over by the cops to be reminded of it, but not every driver will know about it, or just don't care.

Heck I rarely see Indiana State Police enforcing the semi's in the 2 right lane laws on the Borman, so I don't think that this will be enforce. Local streets most likely, but on the Interstates we will see.

I been in Georgia, and they have one too the slowpoke law, and are enforcing it, but also in Georgia also has a super speeders law also to catch those who drive fast also thou. Plus in Georgia in which local,and county,  cops can patrol the interstates through their jurisdictions along with GSP, not like in Illinois, & Indiana where there is only state police on the Highways when I drive on a regular basis, GA slowpoke laws are more enforced.

[SidS1045]

I remember seeing it enforced in Connecticut on I-84 a bit west of Waterbury a few years back.  Connecticut posts lane usage signs on their multi-lane highways, so no driver can claim ignorance of the law.

The LLB was driving exactly at the speed limit with a state cop (not using emergency lights) right behind.  The cop waited about two miles and then pulled him/her over.

[J N Winkler]

While I generally support KRETP, I have reservations about criminalizing failure to adhere to it, because this has the potential to raise issues related to compliance and enforcement tolerance that I don't think have been thought through.  In this connection it should be remembered that the strict enforcement of KRETP in Germany occurs largely on Autobahnen without speed limits.

Consider this situation:

I am driving the speed limit on a freeway.  I pull out to the left to pass a car that is going 5 MPH slower.  The driver of the other car then speeds up to the speed limit, so that he and I are travelling abreast.  Meanwhile, a faster car approaches me from behind.

How do I get out of this situation without breaking the law or encouraging the car behind me to undertake a risky slalom maneuver?  What is my recourse for the fact that it is effectively the other driver (the one whom I am trying to overtake) who has forced me to break the law?

[Bitmapped]

For the people commenting on using the left lane when at the speed limit - Virginia has a special sign (R4-V1) they post on hilly sections of Interstate that say "Commercial Vehicles Except Buses: Use Right Lane When Operated XX MPH or Below" where XX is the posted speed limit.

[jakeroot]

How do I get out of this situation without breaking the law or encouraging the car behind me to undertake a risky slalom maneuver?  What is my recourse for the fact that it is effectively the other driver (the one whom I am trying to overtake) who has forced me to break the law?

Well, he broke the law first by attempting to undertake. I would slow down and merge back in behind. I might even turn my hazard lights on so the sudden slowdown didn't look too dickish.

[kkt]

It's also confusing when the left lane is an HOV lane.  If the HOV lane is moving at 50 mph, the general purpose lanes are moving at 35 mph, and someone comes up behind wanting to go 65 mph (like we all do), is the entire HOV lane obligated to move over for them?

[jeffandnicole]

While I generally support KRETP, I have reservations about criminalizing failure to adhere to it, because this has the potential to raise issues related to compliance and enforcement tolerance that I don't think have been thought through.  In this connection it should be remembered that the strict enforcement of KRETP in Germany occurs largely on Autobahnen without speed limits.

Consider this situation:

I am driving the speed limit on a freeway.  I pull out to the left to pass a car that is going 5 MPH slower.  The driver of the other car then speeds up to the speed limit, so that he and I are travelling abreast.  Meanwhile, a faster car approaches me from behind.

How do I get out of this situation without breaking the law or encouraging the car behind me to undertake a risky slalom maneuver?  What is my recourse for the fact that it is effectively the other driver (the one whom I am trying to overtake) who has forced me to break the law?

For some states, the law has been on the books for decades, so I'm sure it's been thought thru.

There's almost always a tolerance: cops just don't drive up and pull someone over. They generally give it a little time. If the situation that you refer to happens, you have two options...slow down and move over, or speed up slightly and move over.  If you're adamant about not breaking the law, put on your turn signal, slow down slightly, and merge behind him.  Chances are the cop saw what happened. If he didn't and you've been side by side for a while, then yes, you are now in the wrong, and you're probably holding up traffic which doesn't gave a damn who sped up or who slowed down. All they know is that you are in the left lane blocking traffic.

Seems like simple recourse to me.   

[jeffandnicole]

It's also confusing when the left lane is an HOV lane.  If the HOV lane is moving at 50 mph, the general purpose lanes are moving at 35 mph, and someone comes up behind wanting to go 65 mph (like we all do), is the entire HOV lane obligated to move over for them?

If there are people in front of you going 50, then of course not.  How is that different from any other congestion situation?

[Molandfreak]

I am driving the speed limit on a freeway.  I pull out to the left to pass a car that is going 5 MPH slower.  The driver of the other car then speeds up to the speed limit, so that he and I are travelling abreast.  Meanwhile, a faster car approaches me from behind.

How do I get out of this situation without breaking the law or encouraging the car behind me to undertake a risky slalom maneuver?  What is my recourse for the fact that it is effectively the other driver (the one whom I am trying to overtake) who has forced me to break the law?

Make every speed limit law prima facie in addition to the KRETP law. Bamdone.

[Pete from Boston]

While I generally support KRETP, I have reservations about criminalizing failure to adhere to it, because this has the potential to raise issues related to compliance and enforcement tolerance that I don't think have been thought through.  In this connection it should be remembered that the strict enforcement of KRETP in Germany occurs largely on Autobahnen without speed limits.

Consider this situation:

I am driving the speed limit on a freeway.  I pull out to the left to pass a car that is going 5 MPH slower.  The driver of the other car then speeds up to the speed limit, so that he and I are travelling abreast.  Meanwhile, a faster car approaches me from behind.

How do I get out of this situation without breaking the law or encouraging the car behind me to undertake a risky slalom maneuver?  What is my recourse for the fact that it is effectively the other driver (the one whom I am trying to overtake) who has forced me to break the law?

My primary problem with left-lane hotheads is essentially this.  Let's say I use the left lane pass several cars, let's say they are doing 55 in a 65, and I do 65 to pass them.  Quite often someone shows up in this process and rides my bumper, flashes their lights, or some other gesture that says "you're blocking the left lane," to which my inexpressible reaction is "I can't move right, I'm passing faster than the rest of traffic except you, and I'm not done, so suck it."  Sadly, my rear-window text scroll is not yet installed.

Side note: does the title of this thread read to anyone else as "The fines of the new speed limit law are slowing drivers"?  I have to read it twice every time.

[leroys73]

Good law.  I have seen it in other states but don't know the fine.  It sure helps with the flow of traffic. 

  I am one of those people who gets really pissed at the drivers hanging out in the left lane.  Even after flashing the lights they still just cruise along although there is plenty of room in the right lane to move over long enough to let me by.   

I learned how to do my high speed long distance driving as a high school senior and college student in Germany. The Germans don't put up with that crap.  Their fines for "cruising" in the left lane are stiff.  If you are cruising in the left lane your are lucky if you are not ran over by someone doing 200+  KPH (120mph). 

My brother in law and I were doing 115mph in the left lane and passing when we saw lights flashing from a mile back.  We pulled into the right lane and were passed like we were doing 35.

[Ned Weasel]

If slow drivers in the left lane are becoming victims of road rage, then banning slow driving in the left lane in order to reduce road rage is simply legislating the victims' actions in order to achieve desired results from the perpetrators.

No.  The aim of the law is to eliminate one of the causes of road rage, which is lack of lane discipline.  Road rage does not occur unless something/someone causes it.  Left-lane blockers cause it.

No.  Road rage does not occur unless a driver fails to control his or her emotions.

[tribar]

If slow drivers in the left lane are becoming victims of road rage, then banning slow driving in the left lane in order to reduce road rage is simply legislating the victims' actions in order to achieve desired results from the perpetrators.

No.  The aim of the law is to eliminate one of the causes of road rage, which is lack of lane discipline.  Road rage does not occur unless something/someone causes it.  Left-lane blockers cause it.

No.  Road rage does not occur unless a driver fails to control his or her emotions.

This.  It's not my problem that some idiot has road rage. 

[jeffandnicole]

If slow drivers in the left lane are becoming victims of road rage, then banning slow driving in the left lane in order to reduce road rage is simply legislating the victims' actions in order to achieve desired results from the perpetrators.

No.  The aim of the law is to eliminate one of the causes of road rage, which is lack of lane discipline.  Road rage does not occur unless something/someone causes it.  Left-lane blockers cause it.

No.  Road rage does not occur unless a driver fails to control his or her emotions.

This.  It's not my problem that some idiot has road rage. 

If you're not moving over and purposely blocking traffic,  that is road rage.