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New Jersey Gas Tax Increase

Started by cpzilliacus, September 30, 2016, 07:58:57 PM

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cpzilliacus

N.Y. Times: New Jersey's Low Gas Tax to Rise 23¢ Under Deal

QuoteNew Jersey's political leaders said on Friday afternoon that they had reached an agreement to raise the state's gasoline tax by 23 cents a gallon to pay for improvements to roads, bridges and transit systems.

QuoteGov. Chris Christie said he reached a compromise with the Democratic leaders in the State Legislature after an impasse that had lasted for months and that had stalled hundreds of transportation projects. In exchange for Mr. Christie's agreement on what he said was the first tax increase of his two terms in Trenton, the Democrats agreed to lower the state's sales tax by less than half a penny and to phase out the estate tax by 2018.

QuoteMr. Christie, a Republican, said the sales tax rate would decrease next year to 6.875 percent, from 7 percent, and then in 2018 to 6.625 percent.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.


Zeffy

6.875%? What a compromise... Meanwhile, it'll cost me more to fill up, but thankfully my Civic gets an average of 34 MPG.
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Zeffy on October 02, 2016, 10:16:38 AM
6.875%? What a compromise... Meanwhile, it'll cost me more to fill up, but thankfully my Civic gets an average of 34 MPG.

Yeah...for a $10 purchase you save a penny...$100 you save a dime.  Its not much at all...but 6(something)% sounds better than 7% so thsts probably what they were aiming for.

Zeffy

Well, the gas tax hike hit hard overnight. Prices of what were around $1.94 in my area have risen to about $2.23. Thank god for my fuel efficient Civic which gets 34 MPG combined. Now the question becomes what will that tax hike be used for... Despite them saying for transportation improvements, I am highly skeptical in these funds not being used elsewhere.

Well, it was nice being the 2nd lowest gas tax in the nation. Now we're the 6th highest. Woo.
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders

PHLBOS

Quote from: Zeffy on November 01, 2016, 08:39:44 AMNow the question becomes what will that tax hike be used for... Despite them saying for transportation improvements, I am highly skeptical in these funds not being used elsewhere.
According to this Burlington County Times article, there will be ballot referendum (Question No. 2) on the matter.

While the referendum will not repeal the gas tax; its intended goal is to make sure that the revenue indeed goes to the transportation fund and not the general fund.

Quote from: Burlington County Times article"What voter approval of Question No. 2 will do is ensure that every single cent of that increase goes towards improving the transportation infrastructure of New Jersey, and not for any other purpose."

Some opponents of the gas tax hike also agree that the dedication is sound policy.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

bzakharin

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 01, 2016, 08:59:56 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on November 01, 2016, 08:39:44 AMNow the question becomes what will that tax hike be used for... Despite them saying for transportation improvements, I am highly skeptical in these funds not being used elsewhere.
According to this Burlington County Times article, there will be ballot referendum (Question No. 2) on the matter.

While the referendum will not repeal the gas tax; its intended goal is to make sure that the revenue indeed goes to the transportation fund and not the general fund.

Quote from: Burlington County Times article"What voter approval of Question No. 2 will do is ensure that every single cent of that increase goes towards improving the transportation infrastructure of New Jersey, and not for any other purpose."

Some opponents of the gas tax hike also agree that the dedication is sound policy.

If I read the question correctly on my sample ballot, the proposal is to use all of the *diesel* tax for transportation (currently something like 2% of it does not). The regular gas tax already goes into the trust fund, 100%

jwolfer

Will there be more pressure for allowing self service gasoiline in NJ if it will lowere the price?

LGMS428


jeffandnicole

Quote from: jwolfer on November 01, 2016, 01:34:45 PM
Will there be more pressure for allowing self service gasoiline in NJ if it will lowere the price?

LGMS428



Historically, no. It hasn't even been considered. And there's been some debate if it would actually reduce the price.

jwolfer

Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 01, 2016, 01:43:03 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on November 01, 2016, 01:34:45 PM
Will there be more pressure for allowing self service gasoiline in NJ if it will lowere the price?

LGMS428



Historically, no. It hasn't even been considered. And there's been some debate if it would actually reduce the price.
The big oil companies will have a lower cost for sure.. .. They spread some money around to legislators and it will pass. Maybe lower the price a penny or 2 for a time

Its not that difficult to pump gas, contrary to what many in NJ think. And in my experience many Self serve is usually faster. No need to wait for one dude to pump gas in multiple cars and handle payments.

How do the prices compare to PA, NY and DE now?

LGMS428

ekt8750

Quote from: jwolfer on November 01, 2016, 01:54:06 PM
How do the prices compare to PA, NY and DE now?

LGMS428

DE has the lowest prices in the region now.

Mr. Matté

Quote from: bzakharin on November 01, 2016, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 01, 2016, 08:59:56 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on November 01, 2016, 08:39:44 AMNow the question becomes what will that tax hike be used for... Despite them saying for transportation improvements, I am highly skeptical in these funds not being used elsewhere.
According to this Burlington County Times article, there will be ballot referendum (Question No. 2) on the matter.

While the referendum will not repeal the gas tax; its intended goal is to make sure that the revenue indeed goes to the transportation fund and not the general fund.

Quote from: Burlington County Times article"What voter approval of Question No. 2 will do is ensure that every single cent of that increase goes towards improving the transportation infrastructure of New Jersey, and not for any other purpose."

Some opponents of the gas tax hike also agree that the dedication is sound policy.

If I read the question correctly on my sample ballot, the proposal is to use all of the *diesel* tax for transportation (currently something like 2% of it does not). The regular gas tax already goes into the trust fund, 100%

Here's a better link (and non-paywalled) showing the full text of the question/interpretive statement. The regular motor vehicle fuel tax does not fully go into the TTF, a yes vote would dedicate that.

Interestingly enough, our lieutenant governor opposes it because she believes some conspiracy mentioned by a 101.5 radio host about bonding and misuse of funds (the latter will happen whether it's yes or no). I think there's also a little bit of "I wanna be governor next time and if Mr. 21%-approval is for it, I'm automatically against it" and counting on the votes of stupid people who think it's only a public vote on the gas tax.

vdeane

What about pressure to get people to refuel in NJ?  I'm sure there are many people who would refuel in NJ that are now avoiding it because the price no longer offsets the inconvenience of having to deal with a gas jockey.  And that's on top of losing the people who only went to NJ to get gas, or were specifically maximizing the amount bought in NJ.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

cl94

Quote from: vdeane on November 01, 2016, 06:17:54 PM
What about pressure to get people to refuel in NJ?  I'm sure there are many people who would refuel in NJ that are now avoiding it because the price no longer offsets the inconvenience of having to deal with a gas jockey.  And that's on top of losing the people who only went to NJ to get gas, or were specifically maximizing the amount bought in NJ.

You say that, but there are a bunch of people, mainly older, who specifically search out full-service stations. Look at the uproar in Huntington whenever anyone suggests removing the self-service ban.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Alps

Quote from: bzakharin on November 01, 2016, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 01, 2016, 08:59:56 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on November 01, 2016, 08:39:44 AMNow the question becomes what will that tax hike be used for... Despite them saying for transportation improvements, I am highly skeptical in these funds not being used elsewhere.
According to this Burlington County Times article, there will be ballot referendum (Question No. 2) on the matter.

While the referendum will not repeal the gas tax; its intended goal is to make sure that the revenue indeed goes to the transportation fund and not the general fund.

Quote from: Burlington County Times article"What voter approval of Question No. 2 will do is ensure that every single cent of that increase goes towards improving the transportation infrastructure of New Jersey, and not for any other purpose."

Some opponents of the gas tax hike also agree that the dedication is sound policy.

If I read the question correctly on my sample ballot, the proposal is to use all of the *diesel* tax for transportation (currently something like 2% of it does not). The regular gas tax already goes into the trust fund, 100%
That's what I thought at first. Actually, the tax increase is to the petroleum products tax, not the gas tax at the pump. And if you read the question, that tax is clearly included. Please vote yes.

PHLBOS

Quote from: vdeane on November 01, 2016, 06:17:54 PM
What about pressure to get people to refuel in NJ?  I'm sure there are many people who would refuel in NJ that are now avoiding it because the price no longer offsets the inconvenience of having to deal with a gas jockey.  And that's on top of losing the people who only went to NJ to get gas, or were specifically maximizing the amount bought in NJ.
Living near the Delaware River; I can tell you that much of that (driving to NJ just to refuel) is overblown.  Largely because whatever savings one is gaining at the pump price; they lose while driving to/from the station and at the toll booths (at crossings south of the Scudder Falls Bridge) upon return... E-ZPass or no E-ZPass.

If one is frequently crosses the Delaware (due to job, family, etc.); the increase may cause them to rethink (although PA's prices are usually still higher).  However, if one is not crossing the river that often; they usually don't go out of their way to NJ for the sole purpose of refueling.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

storm2k

Quote from: vdeane on November 01, 2016, 06:17:54 PM
What about pressure to get people to refuel in NJ?  I'm sure there are many people who would refuel in NJ that are now avoiding it because the price no longer offsets the inconvenience of having to deal with a gas jockey.  And that's on top of losing the people who only went to NJ to get gas, or were specifically maximizing the amount bought in NJ.

It won't affect a lot of limo and black car drivers and stuff from the City who take a lot of trips to EWR or Teterboro, for sure. Not only are there not a lot of stations in the City anymore, it is still a savings for them if they have to come to this side of the Hudson.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 02, 2016, 11:41:08 AM
Quote from: vdeane on November 01, 2016, 06:17:54 PM
What about pressure to get people to refuel in NJ?  I'm sure there are many people who would refuel in NJ that are now avoiding it because the price no longer offsets the inconvenience of having to deal with a gas jockey.  And that's on top of losing the people who only went to NJ to get gas, or were specifically maximizing the amount bought in NJ.
Living near the Delaware River; I can tell you that much of that (driving to NJ just to refuel) is overblown.  Largely because whatever savings one is gaining at the pump price; they lose while driving to/from the station and at the toll booths (at crossings south of the Scudder Falls Bridge) upon return... E-ZPass or no E-ZPass.

If one is frequently crosses the Delaware (due to job, family, etc.); the increase may cause them to rethink (although PA's prices are usually still higher).  However, if one is not crossing the river that often; they usually don't go out of their way to NJ for the sole purpose of refueling.

Similar to our liquor/beer prices.  You'll see a lot of PA cars at NJ liquor stores around holidays when people are purchasing cases of wine and beer, but people aren't going out of their way on a normal basis to save a few bucks.

Remember the hoards of people at the gas stations near the NY/PA/DE borders?  Neither do I.  Have I seen fairly long lines on summer weekends at the Flying J just before the Delaware Memorial Bridge?  Yep.  Maybe they won't be as long next summer.  But we're not talking a huge hit.  Those extra vehicles made up a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the tax revenue brought in to the state.

Zeffy

Quote from: Mr. Matté on November 01, 2016, 05:18:29 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on November 01, 2016, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 01, 2016, 08:59:56 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on November 01, 2016, 08:39:44 AMNow the question becomes what will that tax hike be used for... Despite them saying for transportation improvements, I am highly skeptical in these funds not being used elsewhere.
According to this Burlington County Times article, there will be ballot referendum (Question No. 2) on the matter.

While the referendum will not repeal the gas tax; its intended goal is to make sure that the revenue indeed goes to the transportation fund and not the general fund.

Quote from: Burlington County Times article"What voter approval of Question No. 2 will do is ensure that every single cent of that increase goes towards improving the transportation infrastructure of New Jersey, and not for any other purpose."

Some opponents of the gas tax hike also agree that the dedication is sound policy.

If I read the question correctly on my sample ballot, the proposal is to use all of the *diesel* tax for transportation (currently something like 2% of it does not). The regular gas tax already goes into the trust fund, 100%

Here's a better link (and non-paywalled) showing the full text of the question/interpretive statement. The regular motor vehicle fuel tax does not fully go into the TTF, a yes vote would dedicate that.

Interestingly enough, our lieutenant governor opposes it because she believes some conspiracy mentioned by a 101.5 radio host about bonding and misuse of funds (the latter will happen whether it's yes or no). I think there's also a little bit of "I wanna be governor next time and if Mr. 21%-approval is for it, I'm automatically against it" and counting on the votes of stupid people who think it's only a public vote on the gas tax.

This is interesting. Am I missing something though, because even after reading the opposition arguments, the ballot seems like it's saying more money goes into the TTF, which this state needs badly. Yet Kim G seems to think it will just lead to more borrowing of money against the TTF?
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders

vdeane

I'm sure you got people from Rockland County, NY crossing just to refuel.  No toll there.  No bridges, either.  Some attendees of the Tuxedo Roadmeet did just that.  And the Vince Lombardi Service Area on the Turnpike is always full of out of state travelers who top off before heading into New York.

If some people feel so strongly about having full service, change the law from a ban on self service to requiring stations to have a certain minimum percentage of their pumps be full service.  Don't ban it for those of us who don't want it.  I hate having to wait for a jockey and having him drop the gas cap onto the side of my car instead of using the thing on my Civic to hold it while refueling.  I put up with it to save some money, but now, I'm going to avoid gassing up in NJ as much as I can.  People who feel even stronger about self service have already been doing so.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jeffandnicole

No doubt there's some people that won't fuel up in Jersey that formerly did so.  But as mentioned, I don't think it's going to be a noticeable dent.  Those gas stations up there don't have lines into the street of NYers.  In the grand scheme of things, there's thousands of gas stations throughout the state, and millions of New Jerseyans that are going to fill up in the state.  Those that came into the state just to full up, or fueled up specifically to avoid higher prices elsewhere on their travels, was just a little gravy.

I do wish there was self serve in this state. Hell, even at the same price, I would be happy to use it!

PHLBOS

Quote from: vdeane on November 02, 2016, 01:14:50 PMAnd the Vince Lombardi Service Area on the Turnpike is always full of out of state travelers who top off before heading into New York.
Just about every Service Area along the NJ Turnpike is full of out-of-state travelers.  The Turnpike's a major pass-through highway.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

vdeane

Pretty sure Vince Lombardi has a higher volume of vehicles getting gas there, though.  At least all the times I've refueled there, I've had to wait 10 minutes in line.  Makes sense: it's the last service area in NJ.  I was speaking to raw numbers, not percentage versus other service areas.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

PHLBOS

Val, my point is travelers using the Lombardi plaza to refuel, as well as any other Service Area/Plaza along the NJ Turnpike, are not just stopping there and then returning from where they came from after refueling; but rather are doing such because those Service Areas are along the way.

In my northbound travels to New England; I typically use either the Joyce Kilmer Service Area or the Montvale Plaza along the Garden State Parkway before leaving NJ.  I do not head to those plazas (or even gas stations in Camden, Gloucester City or Bridgeport) just to refuel and then return home.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

cl94

Here's the thing: Jersey is still cheaper than Pennsylvania because PA has a flat tax. Jersey will probably always be cheaper than Pennsylvania unless the gas tax in Jersey skyrockets. New York is another story as it's a percentage tax- right now, prices are about equal, but if they rise, you'll see people going back to Jersey to fill up.

And as far as people going out of their way to stop at service plazas for gas, the only one that really gets that is Montvale, which (at least according to local legend) is designed so travelers on the Thruway can pop down and return without paying an additional toll. Helps that it's only 4 miles from the Thruway and a really easy on/off. Back before they raised the gas tax, I would see lines of cars going between that plaza and the Thruway for cheap gas.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

vdeane

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 02, 2016, 03:01:13 PM
Val, my point is travelers using the Lombardi plaza to refuel, as well as any other Service Area/Plaza along the NJ Turnpike, are not just stopping there and then returning from where they came from after refueling; but rather are doing such because those Service Areas are along the way.

In my northbound travels to New England; I typically use either the Joyce Kilmer Service Area or the Montvale Plaza along the Garden State Parkway before leaving NJ.  I do not head to those plazas (or even gas stations in Camden, Gloucester City or Bridgeport) just to refuel and then return home.
Don't forget that my point also included people topping off on gas in NJ when they would have otherwise kept on driving.  I've done that before too.  It seems that most people are ignoring that aspect of my point while fixating on one aspect of it.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.