OK 36 in Lawton

[bugo]

The 2017-2018 ODOT map shows OK 36 following Business US 281 north through Lawton. Is it signed that way or is the map wrong? The map has been like this for decades. It doesn't make sense for OK 36 to be signed north of the I-44 interchange but it's Oklahoma and all logic and reason are out the window.

[Bobby5280]

OK-36 used to run into Lawton a long time ago. At one time it ran up 11th Street / Fort Sill Blvd to the Fort Sill Gate. Its current end is South of Lawton at I-44 and the beginning of the Southernmost leg of the H.E. Bailey Turnpike.

Some of these highways have changed their end points numerous times. OK-7 in Lawton has had at least 3 different West ends in Lawton over the past 20 years. The previous end was Sheridan Road at Rogers Lane when the US-62 designation was shifted from Cache Road up to Rogers Lane. Now OK-7 ends at the I-44 exit on the South side of town.

[Brian556]

When was the Lawton mall built?

How were they able to clear so much stuff and re-route Business 281 to build it?

I've never seen a huge mall built in the middle of a city like that before

[roadgeek01]

When was the Lawton mall built?

How were they able to clear so much stuff and re-route Business 281 to build it?

I've never seen a huge mall built in the middle of a city like that before

A quick search of Wikipedia says that the structure was opened in 1979.

[rte66man]

When was the Lawton mall built?

How were they able to clear so much stuff and re-route Business 281 to build it?

I've never seen a huge mall built in the middle of a city like that before

All done in the name of urban renewal.  City leaders panicked at the loss of business to the suburbs and thought this was the only way to get people coming back downtown.

[Scott5114]

It was 1970s Oklahoma; we were doing all kinds of things ass-backwards at the time. Ever heard of the Pei Plan?

[Brian556]

Makes you wonder if and when the mall goes downhill, it will be torn down, and the street grid will be restored

[Brian556]

Quote from Bobby5280:

You sound kind of happy or at least a little smug about that.

The crisis of brick and mortar retail is a very serious problem whose effects will spread a lot farther than just a few name brand retailers going out of business. I look at any American cheering this online merchant onslaught as a blithering fool idiot.

Online retailers don't do shit to support any local economy. Retailers with actual physical store fronts do more than just give a few people some cashier and stock clerk jobs. They buy a lot of goods and services in the local community. They give a lot of business to local electricians, plumbers, heating and air guys, landscapers, roofers, sign companies, IT people, bankers and on and on. Their employees buy goods and services locally. A company like Amazon does NONE of that. In most places online retailers like Amazon don't even collect any sales tax. Meanwhile the brick and mortar retailers not only collect sales tax, but they also pay in property tax and any other fees the state and city levy for them to do business there.

This whole notion of romanticising online retail is only absolutely stupid. 80% of America's jobs are in the services provided sector. Most of those jobs are in businesses that have a physical store front. JCPenney alone employs DOUBLE the number of Americans that work in all of the coal industry, yet we see our orange-haired buffoon of a President just going on and on about coal jobs. JCPenney could be done before year's end. That's 150,000 people out of work. There's nothing positive about that shit.

I don't think even guys like Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos understand just what's at stake here. He literally wants to control every kind of product that Americans buy. But the thing is his business is totally designed on eliminating jobs. Does that guy not understand a certain rule of economics regarding his customer base? The customer needs to have some money in his pocket to spend. But if Bezos' company put all those customers out of work directly or indirectly then how the hell is he going to keep selling stuff.

I think it's long overdue for some anti-trust people to step in and stop some of this madness. It's all long overdue for state governments to re-evaluate their sales tax systems and how online merchants evade that. Sales tax is by far the main reason why brick and mortar retailers are getting killed by online merchants. People are buying online primarily to get out of paying sales tax. That really goes big time for big ticket items where the sales tax bill alone can be $100 or more. If the product with tax included was the same price locally as it was online most people would go to the local store and buy the product now rather than waiting to get it in the mail. Very simple.

I like what you say. Very wise. I would much rather buy items in a physical store because I can more easily determine quality and features, plus I can get it immediately. I hate how big companies are buying out or trying to put smaller companies out of business. Its unfair. I feel that the current version of capitalism that we live under sucks, is unfair, and is destroying our country.

The only goods things about online shopping are :

1. It is a lot easier to locate items online rather than going to different stores that may or may not have what you need.
2. You can get items such as traffic signs that you cannot get in traditional stores.

[rte66man]

One of the biggest segments of Lawton's population is retired military -mainly people who weren't even born in Oklahoma. From my own observation Lawton's population is honestly more diverse than most other cities and towns in this state. As for the redneck white trash element, I think SE OK has a greater share of the Deliverance style Ned Beatty raping thumb-heads than this part of the state.

An assertion that can easily be proven by counting the number of bullet holes in each roadside sign 

[yakra]

You're a NIN fan?

HA! I picked up on that one particular string literal in Baloo's post too. 

[Scott5114]

I don't know where you're getting this idea that people shop online just to avoid sales tax. 8% of the total is chump change for most of what I buy online. It's all about being able to find something in minutes instead of having to physically hunt for it. (Besides, Amazon is charging sales tax in OK now, so it's not like that's even a thing.)

Remember, online shopping is more than just Amazon—there's tons of sites out there that are mom and pop establishments, but you might never know it because it's easier to give the illusion of a large, established business (which a lot of people find more trustworthy) online than it is in a physical store. One of my suppliers is based in Maryland and as far as I can tell it is just the owner and his 14-year-old son. They make great stuff. I'd have never met the guy if not for the Internet.

You can run an online business pretty much anywhere, too. A niche retail store would probably go bankrupt pretty quickly if it opened somewhere like Walters or Frederick, but there's absolutely no reason you couldn't locate an online business there.

[Bobby5280]

I don't know where you're getting this idea that people shop online just to avoid sales tax. 8% of the total is chump change for most of what I buy online.

You must have never heard of the term "show rooming." It is the specific practice of going to a retail store to check out a product like a big new HDTV set and then going home to order it online to avoid paying sales tax. Show rooming is a very real and very serious problem for brick and mortar retailers selling big ticket items.

8% may be chump change if all you're ordering is a music CD or other relatively low priced items. Sales tax adds up big for major purchases like TV sets, DSLR cameras or anything else costing hundreds or even thousands of dollars. Oklahoma's sales tax rates are all over the place across the state. An 8% rate is actually low. Some towns are over the 10% threshold. Lawton is currently at 9%.

Amazon is now collecting sales tax, but it's still very easy for them to undercut brick and mortar retailers, even Walmart. They don't have all the store fronts to maintain and employees in those stores to pay.

As for "mom and pop" retailers online, yes some people do run their own online based businesses. But that ignores the broader economic problem that a giant number of people work in physical stores. Throw all those people out of their jobs and America's economy will go to shit. The folks at Amazon and all those mom and pop online business people will not escape the pain either. Do you think they're only selling stuff to other people who work out of online based businesses? Kill off physical retail stores and every kind of business will suddenly have a far smaller customer base.