Moving to DC

[jakeroot]

To all it may concern!

In the next two months, both my mother and I will be working in DC, full time for at least three years, if not forever. We will both be working near the National Mall.

We are currently looking for a townhouse/condo within DC itself, or in Virginia (no yard please). A lot of the places that we've found have been in Alexandria or Arlington. Her job pays well enough that we don't need to live two hours away. Ideally, we're looking for somewhere no more than a 30 min drive to the National Mall (in rush hour traffic), and near a metro station (which seem to be all over the place anyway).

I have been familiarising myself with the DC area over the past several weeks, trying to understand the highways and neighborhoods. I have come up with a couple questions that I'm hoping some people can answer:

1) Are there any neighborhoods in the DC area that should be avoided? I've heard that areas east of DC are no good, but curious what locals think.

2) Is the DC area speed-trap happy? I know Virginia has an 80 MPH criminal speed law, but I've heard that locals will drive right up to like 79, and that the beltway has a much higher average speed than the limit (55 GP lanes, 65 Express lanes IIRC).

[Scott5114]

"For at least three years" puts you into 2020. Are you going to be senatorial staffers?

[The Nature Boy]

Arlington and Alexandria are as close to DC as you can get without being in the District itself and is actually closer to the National Mall than most of the District.

I wouldn't live in DC again if you paid me but I'd happily live in NoVa. I'd try to find a place in Arlington or Alexandria, you'll thank me when you don't have to deal with city traffic when you want to go out and about.

[jeffandnicole]

Definitely consider places within the same block as a Metro Station, if at all possible.  My cousin had one in Alexandria like that and, when it's cold, snowing, raining, hot (basically, any weather besides the most beautiful of days), you want to walk as little as possible in that bad weather!

I personally would pick VA over DC, although I don't have experience living in either.

DC has speed cameras set up all over the city, so yeah, I would say they're speed trap happy! 

Speeds are often going to be limited by traffic in the VA/DC area.  But when they are flowing during rush hours, it's not uncommon to see traffic at speeds above 80 mph as people go with the flow.   But once traffic lightens a bit, you'll want to keep it below 80 as there's a lot fewer people on the road (and makes it easier to find those going above 80).  Note, I believe 20+ over the limit is the same as 80+ as well.

[froggie]

Some notes and responses to Jake, based on my own personal experience living in the region.

- CP and Mike Tantillo will probably back me on this:  I'd throw your "no more than 30min drive to National Mall during rush hour" criteria straight out the window.  It's generally impossible in most locations outside of DC, and for locations inside DC, you're often faster biking than driving during peak periods.

- Metro's Red and Orange Lines have the biggest people crush during peak periods, though ANY line can and will have issues if there's an incident like smoke or a disabled train.

- Virginia's VRE and Maryland's MARC (both are commuter trains) are generally reliable.  If living in Virginia and taking VRE, the station at L'Enfant Plaza is fairly close to the Mall (and also provides connections to 5 of the 6 Metro lines).

- Consider bicycling instead of driving, especially in DC during the peak of rush hour.  The core of the region has a fairly extensive network of bike lanes and off-road paths.

- Living in DC is not as bad as some people (including in this thread) think.  That said, DC living is in very high demand so the cost has been driven up considerably in recent years.  Primarily for this reason, I concur with the others who suggest looking in Arlington or Alexandria.  The inner fringes of Fairfax County are also a possibility, but if you insist on that 30 minute drive time, Fairfax County will go out the window.  Living in Virginia is generally cheaper than living in Maryland.

- If you do look at DC, most of it is at least "tolerable".  The northwest quadrant (especially west of 7th St/Georgia Ave NW) is the most wealthy quadrant and, conversely, the most expensive to live in (as Mike Tantillo can attest to).  General areas to avoid are Southwest DC south of M St SW, most of DC east of the Anacostia River (though Anacostia proper and some areas along Pennsylvania Ave SE are starting to gentrify), and parts of Northeast DC generally north of Benning Rd and east of the CSX Met Branch Subdivision (though there are also neighborhoods here in the process of gentrifying such as Brentwood and Trinidad)

- Typical speeds on the Beltway, traffic permitting, are in the 65-70 range.  I wouldn't push it any past 75, though, despite others doing it.  Far too many Beltway crashes result from this.

- Both DC proper and Montgomery County have several speed cameras.  All are signed in advance, though some of the DC signs also refer to mobile speed camera locations that may not necessarily have a camera at a given time.

[jeffandnicole]

- CP and Mike Tantillo will probably back me on this:  I'd throw your "no more than 30min drive to National Mall during rush hour" criteria straight out the window.  It's generally impossible in most locations outside of DC, and for locations inside DC, you're often faster biking than driving during peak periods.

I heard this one time from someone many years ago:

They were looking at moving into the DC/VA region, and the person took a test drive on the weekend from DC to VA to see where a 30 minute drive south of DC would get them.  They then looked around and settled on a house. 

Her first commute day to work took over 2 hours! 

She never gave it a thought that driving on a free-flowing Saturday on the highways would be so much different on the weekdays.  And she didn't consider the parking and walking necessary as well.

I don't know what happened...but I can't believe this person dealt with the 2 hour drive each way all that long.

[The Nature Boy]

I would also keep in mind the ease of doing daily things like grocery shopping. When I lived in DC, it was difficult to buy a lot of groceries at a time because I knew that I wouldn't just able to park in front of my apartment and walk straight in. This, of course, necessitated more frequent trips to the grocery store. All of my friends in DC have apartments that require them to park on the street and they're lucky if they can park directly in front of their apartments. Even in some of then nicer neighborhoods, you'll notice people parking on the street.

When moving somewhere, try to imagine what it would be like to do your daily business there and try to plan your living situation accordingly.

[oscar]

- CP and Mike Tantillo will probably back me on this:  I'd throw your "no more than 30min drive to National Mall during rush hour" criteria straight out the window.  It's generally impossible in most locations outside of DC, and for locations inside DC, you're often faster biking than driving during peak periods.

It might be manageable in Arlington. When I was working in NW D.C. (first near the Mall, then near Union Station), my morning commute from my apartment on the U.S. 50 corridor was often as fast as 20-25 minutes, with some luck. The evening commute usually took longer. It helped that my work hours were generally 10am-6:30pm, so I could dodge the worst of the morning rush, though not the evening rush.

Parking was expensive, since at my agency free parking was reserved for car/van-pools, and officials a few levels more senior than me. My parking expenses included a hefty parking tax (fair enough, that's the only money D.C. ever got from me to cover my use of its roads). So driving rather than transit was really a luxury option.

[kkt]

Good luck!  The other Washington will miss you.

Try to avoid jobs where you're furloughed when Congress can't get it's act together.

[AlexandriaVA]

Send me a PM for specific detailed information.

[wxfree]

- CP and Mike Tantillo will probably back me on this:  I'd throw your "no more than 30min drive to National Mall during rush hour" criteria straight out the window.  It's generally impossible in most locations outside of DC, and for locations inside DC, you're often faster biking than driving during peak periods.

I heard this one time from someone many years ago:

They were looking at moving into the DC/VA region, and the person took a test drive on the weekend from DC to VA to see where a 30 minute drive south of DC would get them.  They then looked around and settled on a house. 

Her first commute day to work took over 2 hours! 

She never gave it a thought that driving on a free-flowing Saturday on the highways would be so much different on the weekdays.  And she didn't consider the parking and walking necessary as well.

I don't know what happened...but I can't believe this person dealt with the 2 hour drive each way all that long.

The DFW MPO transportation director is well known in the area for saying that people shouldn't be allowed to buy houses on the weekend.

[jakeroot]

"For at least three years" puts you into 2020. Are you going to be senatorial staffers?

Well, you know.

I'd happily live in NoVa. I'd try to find a place in Arlington or Alexandria, you'll thank me when you don't have to deal with city traffic when you want to go out and about.

Definitely consider places within the same block as a Metro Station, if at all possible.  My cousin had one in Alexandria like that and, when it's cold, snowing, raining, hot (basically, any weather besides the most beautiful of days), you want to walk as little as possible in that bad weather!
...
I personally would pick VA over DC, although I don't have experience living in either.

I concur with the others who suggest looking in Arlington or Alexandria.  The inner fringes of Fairfax County are also a possibility, but if you insist on that 30 minute drive time, Fairfax County will go out the window.  Living in Virginia is generally cheaper than living in Maryland.

Glad to see there's some agreement here. We looked a lot in Maryland as well, but didn't see much that we liked. Virginia seems like the best option, lest some condo pops up in DC proper. Most of the condos and townhouses that we've found have been in the Columbia Heights area. Seems like a nice area, if Google Street View means much. Most of the townhomes in Virginia that we like have been around the Braddock Road and King Street metro stations. If not within walking distance, at least near a bus station that we could walk to.

The "30 minute" criteria was something she came up with. I think it's a goal, mostly. Not necessarily something that must be stuck to (she and I both intend to ride the train when possible). As a result, we've also been looking at places in the Falls Church/McLean neighborhoods (poor Metro access on foot but good bus access to reach Metro). Her job reimburses parking costs, so park and ride lots that have parking costs are not something out of question. Although I think she would prefer to walk and ride if at all possible.

[jakeroot]

Good luck!  The other Washington will miss you.

And I will miss Washington. Plenty of family out here. I see myself returning in the future, but not shortly.

Send me a PM for specific detailed information.

Will do.

[Roadgeekteen]

When will you change your location?

[jakeroot]

When will you change your location?

Next couple of months. Long drive ahead of us.

[Roadgeekteen]

When will you change your location?

Next couple of months. Long drive ahead of us.

It takes a few months to drive cross country?

[froggie]

^ Think about what you just asked in the context of what the OP posted.

[Scott5114]

I moved less than a mile earlier this year and it took about a month.

[1995hoo]

One of the better suggestions I've heard was from the former Dr. Gridlock (Robert Thomson), who suggested that when you consider a place to move, find a way to spend the night near that location, or else get there super-early one morning, and test out the commute. It's a good idea, but I would add a few points to that advice. If your planned commute involves driving, do it on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday when school is in session because those are the days on which traffic is usually the heaviest. If the forecast calls for rain, opt for that day because traffic is always worse when it rains. (Today in the morning rain Van Dorn Street near our neighborhood was backed up past the Top Golf, which means it would have taken over half an hour to go the two miles to the Van Dorn Metro if we'd wanted to go that way.)

Conversely, if you're looking in the District, keep an eye out to see if there are many churches nearby, and if there are, make sure you scout out the neighborhood on Sunday morning. The District has long turned a blind eye to all sorts of parking violations by church-goers who will double-park, block driveways, etc., such that residents are unable to get out. The debate on this issue is fraught with racial overtones, too–it seems many historically black churches have congregations with a lot of people who moved out to the suburbs but did not change churches and thus drive into the city and are faced with a lack of parking. It's not an issue to take lightly if you consider moving into a neighborhood that has churches with no off-street parking.

I'm obviously biased, but Virginia offers some notable advantages–lower income taxes, lower gas prices, usually lower car insurance premiums. One disadvantage if you drive into the District is a natural barrier–the Potomac. All traffic has to funnel onto the bridges, so they're natural chokepoints. Maryland has a land border with the District, so there are more alternate routes when something gets messed up. I think the key to getting around here is to learn as many different routes as you can and to be prepared to use any or all of them at a moment's notice if the traffic report tells you something is wrong.

As froggie noted, the Metro has reliability issues. I ride it four days a week and it can be just fine, but it can get messed up at a moment's notice by all sorts of annoying things like people trying to hold the doors open and the train then being taken out of service. I can suggest various Twitter accounts and such to follow for Metro information, and if you plan on using the Metro, I recommend you get a Verizon mobile phone if you don't already have one because they have the most reliable service in the subway tunnels (not perfect, but better than the rest, and that's very helpful when you're stuck in a dark tunnel and the train operator's announcements are unintelligible). A more important issue is to find out what the peak hour Metro commute will cost you each way because it can get pretty expensive if your employer doesn't offer a subsidy. Currently the maximum one-way peak hour fare is $6.00; if you have to park at a Metro station, that usually adds $4.95. (But many downtown garages' early bird rate can be as high as $15, so the Metro may not be as expensive on a relative basis as it sounds.)

[Brandon]

Currently the maximum one-way peak hour fare is $6.00; if you have to park at a Metro station, that usually adds $4.95. (But many downtown garages' early bird rate can be as high as $15, so the Metro may not be as expensive on a relative basis as it sounds.)

LOL!  $15 for an early bird rate is considered a good deal in downtown Chicago.

[1995hoo]

Currently the maximum one-way peak hour fare is $6.00; if you have to park at a Metro station, that usually adds $4.95. (But many downtown garages' early bird rate can be as high as $15, so the Metro may not be as expensive on a relative basis as it sounds.)

LOL!  $15 for an early bird rate is considered a good deal in downtown Chicago.

The point was to compare it to the subway fare. Obviously the circumstances can make a difference as well–if you commute with someone else, the average cost of driving changes while the subway fare doesn't (other than paying one parking fee instead of two).

[jakeroot]

I'm obviously biased, but Virginia offers some notable advantages–lower income taxes, lower gas prices, usually lower car insurance premiums.

This is important to me, because I come from a state with no income tax. I understand that Virginia also collects personal property tax, whatever that is. But I will appreciate the nearly-halved sales tax and slightly lower fuel prices. Hopefully diesel isn't too much more expensive than unleaded over there. Same price as unleaded here.

One disadvantage if you drive into the District is a natural barrier–the Potomac. All traffic has to funnel onto the bridges, so they're natural chokepoints. Maryland has a land border with the District, so there are more alternate routes when something gets messed up. I think the key to getting around here is to learn as many different routes as you can and to be prepared to use any or all of them at a moment's notice if the traffic report tells you something is wrong.

Her office building, the location of which is considerably more important in the overall scheme of things (I can theoretically work at just about any hotel), is south of the Mall. I don't know how that might play into things (maybe trying to cross the mall is a PITA, so living north of downtown is not such a good idea?). That said, I completely forgot about the Potomac. I come from an area with lots of natural land barriers (hills, rivers, lakes), so it's not something that I need to adjust to and/or am annoyed by. Might just have to live with it, since Maryland is now officially off the table (apparently she talked to some area friends who highly prefer Virginia for various reasons -- she (being my mother) makes the call, as you might imagine; she is also not familiar with the area so is relying on her friends heavily). That in mind, her intent is to take Metro most days, so the Potomac shouldn't pose too much of a threat from day-to-day.

Is Waze heavily utilised out east? I use the app just about every day here, even just going a few miles. Lots of people here using it, so it comes in handy when trying to avoid congestion. Although, being incredibly familiar with Seattle roads means that I often ignore it, as I think I know better.

[Takumi]

I'm obviously biased, but Virginia offers some notable advantages–lower income taxes, lower gas prices, usually lower car insurance premiums.

This is important to me, because I come from a state with no income tax. I understand that Virginia also collects personal property tax, whatever that is. But I will appreciate the nearly-halved sales tax and slightly lower fuel prices. Hopefully diesel isn't too much more expensive than unleaded over there. Same price as unleaded here.

One disadvantage if you drive into the District is a natural barrier–the Potomac. All traffic has to funnel onto the bridges, so they're natural chokepoints. Maryland has a land border with the District, so there are more alternate routes when something gets messed up. I think the key to getting around here is to learn as many different routes as you can and to be prepared to use any or all of them at a moment's notice if the traffic report tells you something is wrong.

Her office building, the location of which is considerably more important in the overall scheme of things (I can theoretically work at just about any hotel), is south of the Mall. I don't know how that might play into things (maybe trying to cross the mall is a PITA, so living north of downtown is not such a good idea?). That said, I completely forgot about the Potomac. I come from an area with lots of natural land barriers (hills, rivers, lakes), so it's not something that I need to adjust to and/or am annoyed by. Might just have to live with it, since Maryland is now officially off the table (apparently she talked to some area friends who highly prefer Virginia for various reasons -- she (being my mother) makes the call, as you might imagine; she is also not familiar with the area so is relying on her friends heavily). That in mind, her intent is to take Metro most days, so the Potomac shouldn't pose too much of a threat from day-to-day.

Is Waze heavily utilised out east? I use the app just about every day here, even just going a few miles. Lots of people here using it, so it comes in handy when trying to avoid congestion. Although, being incredibly familiar with Seattle roads means that I often ignore it, as I think I know better.

I'm quite a bit further south in the state than where you'll be, but diesel is about the same price as unleaded around here. Also, I took a brief jaunt into North Carolina the other day, and saw gas prices were 10-20 cents higher there than in VA.

[1995hoo]

Regarding diesel, Virginia taxes it differently than gas. If you have a diesel car, you're eligible for a refund on some amount of fuel tax. I've never paid a lot of attention because none of our cars runs on diesel, but you can find the info at the link below. Save your fuel receipts! This alone would be a reason to buy fuel in Virginia even if you lived in DC or Maryland, because you don't have to be a Virginia resident to get the refund.

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/commercial/#taxact/diesel_refunds.asp

Personal property tax is what's commonly known as the car tax. Every year you have to pay a tax based on the vehicle's value, collected by the county or city, and most counties and cities will also charge you a $33 "registration fee" on top of that. The portion based on the vehicle's value is deductible on your federal tax return if you itemize deductions. The $33 fee is not because it's a flat fee.

You also have to get a safety inspection once a year (most service stations and car dealers can do this) and an emissions inspection every two years. You have to get the emissions done before you can get or renew license plates. The safety inspection is not part of the registration process, but if you let it lapse, you're likely to get a ticket when a cop sees the expired inspection decal on your window. None of this is anywhere near as big a deal as it sounds. It's more in the nature of a minor hassle that's part of life here, and the inspection does have the benefit of keeping the real junkers off the road.

[jeffandnicole]

Waze is used out east, although in such a congested area if there's an incident it's hard to find routes that have nothing going on. If there's a major incident other routes are going to be jammed already anyway. Its probably better than nothing, although you have to get used to the fact that when multiple people report an incident, the reports may be noted on separate locations, making it appear there's several accidents in a general area.

Travel time signs are used extensively on the highways. I've found them more useful.

The most important thing is if there is an incident, that it's moved off the roadway into the shoulder, keeping the travel lanes open.