Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[jakeroot]

I was floating around on the 'net and came across this...

It looks like it's from the early 1970's. This is on Broad St (US 250) in Richmond. Has anyone else seen a signal like this? Maybe it was a prototype or something.

Woah! That's very cool. I have never seen anything like that. More than likely the first "FYA" (or "FAA", as it were). Seems that "yield" would have fit better than "with caution", but I appreciate old verbiage.

I am also curious how many areas are fully converted over to FYA or really close to that?

I know Alachua County, Florida seems to have converted at least 95% of PPLTs to them already, seemingly only leaving the old signals or structures that look like they wouldn't support an extra head or are scheduled for replacement (either through redesign of the intersection/road or just of the structure). Any area 100% converted?

Ada County, Idaho (Boise) has substantially finished converting. There might be a couple doghouses left but I have no idea where they are. It's definitely more than 95%. One of the elected officials here exclusively ran on a pro-FYA platform and has successfully pushed hard for a rapid conversion

Goes to show just how important traffic flow is to various electorates around the country.

[plain]

I was floating around on the 'net and came across this...

It looks like it's from the early 1970's. This is on Broad St (US 250) in Richmond. Has anyone else seen a signal like this? Maybe it was a prototype or something.

Woah! That's very cool. I have never seen anything like that. More than likely the first "FYA" (or "FAA", as it were). Seems that "yield" would have fit better than "with caution", but I appreciate old verbiage.

I've never seen this either. It comes from the Richmond Times-Dispatch's archives but naturally there's not much of a description with it smdh. I want to know the story behind it.

[Eth]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned previously; it's a bit of a long thread.

A new FYA was activated near me in the last week or two. I was driving through it today and encountered a situation I've never seen before: a flashing yellow left arrow in conjunction with a red ball (and a green for oncoming traffic). Has anyone ever seen that before? I guess this would be the first time I've actually seen an FYA accomplish something that couldn't be done with a doghouse.

[US 89]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned previously; it's a bit of a long thread.

A new FYA was activated near me in the last week or two. I was driving through it today and encountered a situation I've never seen before: a flashing yellow left arrow in conjunction with a red ball (and a green for oncoming traffic). Has anyone ever seen that before? I guess this would be the first time I've actually seen an FYA accomplish something that couldn't be done with a doghouse.

I remember the first time I saw it, I was shocked, and I thought to myself "why would you let cars turn when there's both a green light and arrow for opposing traffic?" I still feel weird pulling into the intersection on a flashing yellow while the through light is red.

[jakeroot]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned previously; it's a bit of a long thread.

A new FYA was activated near me in the last week or two. I was driving through it today and encountered a situation I've never seen before: a flashing yellow left arrow in conjunction with a red ball (and a green for oncoming traffic). Has anyone ever seen that before? I guess this would be the first time I've actually seen an FYA accomplish something that couldn't be done with a doghouse.

Do you mean with a doghouse? Otherwise normal operation. Since left turns don't interfere with oncoming lefts, there's no reason not to allow it. Also permits lead/lag without dedicated turn lanes.

Minnesota has used the setup before:

https://youtu.be/onyZQcgkMOw

Also Wisconsin:

https://youtu.be/A_L0EMMptRg

[Eth]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned previously; it's a bit of a long thread.

A new FYA was activated near me in the last week or two. I was driving through it today and encountered a situation I've never seen before: a flashing yellow left arrow in conjunction with a red ball (and a green for oncoming traffic). Has anyone ever seen that before? I guess this would be the first time I've actually seen an FYA accomplish something that couldn't be done with a doghouse.

Do you mean with a doghouse? Otherwise normal operation. Since left turns don't interfere with oncoming lefts, there's no reason not to allow it. Also permits lead/lag without dedicated turn lanes.

No, there was no doghouse at this intersection. For the left turn lane, it was a standard four-arrow setup (red; yellow; flashing yellow, which was active; green), and a normal three-ball setup for the through lane (which was showing red). Basically exactly as US 89 described above. (For anyone in the area, this is on US 278 westbound at GA 155 southbound.)

There is also, at a different intersection a couple miles away, a doghouse setup like in your Minnesota example with both a solid and a flashing yellow but no green arrow, though in that case there is no adjacent four-arrow signal.

[jakeroot]

I see. All you're describing is a lead/lag flashing yellow arrow. Since the turns don't conflict with one another, there's no reason for the red arrow to stay lit.

Here's a video I made a while back of signal near me with lead/lag operation:

https://youtu.be/_idz1QzWQtg

[doorknob60]

I am also curious how many areas are fully converted over to FYA or really close to that?

I know Alachua County, Florida seems to have converted at least 95% of PPLTs to them already, seemingly only leaving the old signals or structures that look like they wouldn't support an extra head or are scheduled for replacement (either through redesign of the intersection/road or just of the structure). Any area 100% converted?

Ada County, Idaho (Boise) has substantially finished converting. There might be a couple doghouses left but I have no idea where they are. It's definitely more than 95%. One of the elected officials here exclusively ran on a pro-FYA platform and has successfully pushed hard for a rapid conversion

There's 2 intersections on Franklin Rd, at Benjamin Ln and at the driveway into the shopping center and the Wendy's. There may be more out there, but those are the only two I can think of for sure.

EDIT: Also State St at 15th, 16th, and 27th St.

[tradephoric]

I see. All you're describing is a lead/lag flashing yellow arrow. Since the turns don't conflict with one another, there's no reason for the red arrow to stay lit.

Here's a video I made a while back of signal near me with lead/lag operation:

https://youtu.be/_idz1QzWQtg

There are some agencies that won't run the flashing yellow arrow unless the adjacent thru green is on.  I do know the policy can be problematic in lag/lag FYA operation as it prevents the lagging left turns from split phasing (IE. the lagging lefts must come up every time to prevent a yellow trap since they don't allow the FYA to be displayed when the adjacent thru signal is red). 

[jakeroot]

I see. All you're describing is a lead/lag flashing yellow arrow. Since the turns don't conflict with one another, there's no reason for the red arrow to stay lit.

Here's a video I made a while back of signal near me with lead/lag operation:

https://youtu.be/_idz1QzWQtg

There are some agencies that won't run the flashing yellow arrow unless the adjacent thru green is on.  I do know the policy can be problematic in lag/lag FYA operation as it prevents the lagging left turns from split phasing (IE. the lagging lefts must come up every time to prevent a yellow trap since they don't allow the FYA to be displayed when the adjacent thru signal is red).

I remember you mentioning that before. What a dumb policy. May as well use standard 4-/5-section heads. That said, I wasn't actually familiar with any jurisdictions that used that policy. Apparently parts of GA use it?

[tradephoric]

^I'll just say it's a conservative policy.   And it goes without saying that the agency favors leading FYA over lagging to avoid any yellow trap scenarios (the few lagging FYAs out in the field are forced to cycle).   I can't give you a great explanation to why the policy is in place to begin with.  My guess is the agency just thinks it looks "odd"  when the flashing yellow arrow is on while the adjacent thru is red.  I know in Canada a rapid flashing green ball indicates a protected movement so maybe someone from Canada may just see the flashing yellow arrow for the left turn and assume it's some type of protected movement?  I'm really grasping at straws though.  The funny thing is surrounding agencies do allow the FYA to be on when the adjacent thru is red, and there doesn't seem to be much issue at those locations.  I just think people get stuck in their ways.

[jakeroot]

^I'll just say it's a conservative policy.   And it goes without saying that the agency favors leading FYA over lagging to avoid any yellow trap scenarios (the few lagging FYAs out in the field are forced to cycle).   I can't give you a great explanation to why the policy is in place to begin with.  My guess is the agency just thinks it looks "odd"  when the flashing yellow arrow is on while the adjacent thru is red.  I know in Canada a rapid flashing green ball indicates a protected movement so maybe someone from Canada may just see the flashing yellow arrow for the left turn and assume it's some type of protected movement?  I'm really grasping at straws though.  The funny thing is surrounding agencies do allow the FYA to be on when the adjacent thru is red, and there doesn't seem to be much issue at those locations.  I just think people get stuck in their ways.

I definitely don't doubt its conservative nature. Seems almost too conservative. You can run with lagging phasing without cycling. You just have to dedicate the time that might be dedicated to protected lefts to through traffic. Seems odd, but as long as there's occasional gaps, you can still clear traffic. The issue is that even those signals need a tipping point. I guess it just has to be really high during off-peak times to avoid unnecessary lagging green arrows.

Flashing green orbs for protected lefts are used in Ontario only, and I'm not sure they're used anymore. That said, flashing green arrows are used pretty much country-wide. As someone who extensively drives in both BC and WA, the latter of which has many flashing yellow arrows, I haven't personally noticed any major issues with misinterpretation. But then again, outside of a few locales in the Seattle metro, most use leading lefts. But none prohibit the FYA during the oncoming protected left (should someone arrive too late to activate their own protected left).

[SignBridge]

I'm surprised at the county that won't display an FYA while the thru reds are lit. The original purpose of the FYA was for exactly that configuration. To replace the green-ball over the left-turn lane while the thru heads displayed red in a set-up known as "Dallas Phasing". That's the exact situation the FYA was created for.

What's interesting though is some states are finding creative uses for the FYA. New York City is using it to protect bike lanes and crosswalks against drivers making turns. And as many have noted it's commonly being used to replace doghouses over left-turn lanes.

But solving the "Dallas Phasing" issue was the original concept. 

[Roadsguy]

I notice PennDOT beginning to use three-segment FYAs without green arrows in places where they may want to put a protected turn in the future. You have one of these on US 422 at Locust Street in Myerstown (just west of PA 501). Before FYAs, they'd either put up a third standard signal or just have a longer mast arm with a blank spot over the turning lane. It doesn't seem like they're using this greenless FYA for all unprotected turning lanes, since they didn't put them in for Ramona Road when they redid that intersection just a bit west of this one.

[Eth]

I'm surprised at the county that won't display an FYA while the thru reds are lit. The original purpose of the FYA was for exactly that configuration. To replace the green-ball over the left-turn lane while the thru heads displayed red in a set-up known as "Dallas Phasing". That's the exact situation the FYA was created for.

What's interesting though is some states are finding creative uses for the FYA. New York City is using it to protect bike lanes and crosswalks against drivers making turns. And as many have noted it's commonly being used to replace doghouses over left-turn lanes.

But solving the "Dallas Phasing" issue was the original concept. 

Yeah, now that y'all say this, it makes sense. But having never seen this before, my assumption the whole time has just been "oh, this is just what we're doing now instead of doghouses, okay".

Not the first time my state has been backward on something, and surely won't be the last.

[SignBridge]

Well Eth, to take your statement even further, if it were not for the internet and these kinds of forums, I wouldn't know about any of this stuff either and I would have made the same assumption you did about FYA just being the new current practice.

BTW, if you do a Google search for "Dallas Phasing" you can find some good video, illustrations and explanations of how it looked and operated. Then you'll see the purpose of the FYA even better.

[kphoger]

Well Eth, to take your statement even further, if it were not for the internet and these kinds of forums, I wouldn't know about any of this stuff either and I would have made the same assumption you did about FYA just being the new current practice.

BTW, if you do a Google search for "Dallas Phasing" you can find some good video, illustrations and explanations of how it looked and operated. Then you'll see the purpose of the FYA even better.

No need to do a Google search.  Just stay right here on the forum!

[US 89]

Not the first time my state has been backward on something, and surely won't be the last.

I take the fact that Georgia has adopted the FYA as a sign of progress. Put it this way: I won't be complaining about their FYA treatments, when there are ugly BGSs (who needs series EM when you have D?) to look at, and when every US highway is on a useless (but fully signed) multiplex with some GA state route.

[jakeroot]

Not the first time my state has been backward on something, and surely won't be the last.

I take the fact that Georgia has adopted the FYA as a sign of progress. Put it this way: I won't be complaining about their FYA treatments, when there are ugly BGSs (who needs series EM when you have D?) to look at, and when every US highway is on a useless (but fully signed) multiplex with some GA state route.

I wouldn't go that far. If they're running them in the exact same manner as a 5-section left turn signal, they've just done a lateral; different signal display but no advantage.

[freebrickproductions]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned previously; it's a bit of a long thread.

A new FYA was activated near me in the last week or two. I was driving through it today and encountered a situation I've never seen before: a flashing yellow left arrow in conjunction with a red ball (and a green for oncoming traffic). Has anyone ever seen that before? I guess this would be the first time I've actually seen an FYA accomplish something that couldn't be done with a doghouse.

Do you mean with a doghouse? Otherwise normal operation. Since left turns don't interfere with oncoming lefts, there's no reason not to allow it. Also permits lead/lag without dedicated turn lanes.

Minnesota has used the setup before:

https://youtu.be/onyZQcgkMOw

Also Wisconsin:

https://youtu.be/A_L0EMMptRg

Atlanta, GA also has quite a few FYA doghouses around the city that I observed while I was there in 2016.

[jakeroot]

Atlanta, GA also has quite a few FYA doghouses around the city that I observed while I was there in 2016.

This was what I originally thought Eth was referring to.

[Roadwarriors79]

Is this common on overhead signals in NYC? This video clip is for an intersection in Staten Island.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9w5iwcZGJg

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Is this common on overhead signals in NYC? This video clip is for an intersection in Staten Island.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9w5iwcZGJg

Yes, but it's mainly used for pedestrian/bicycle conflicts instead of oncoming traffic.

[JMAN_WiS&S]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned previously; it's a bit of a long thread.

A new FYA was activated near me in the last week or two. I was driving through it today and encountered a situation I've never seen before: a flashing yellow left arrow in conjunction with a red ball (and a green for oncoming traffic). Has anyone ever seen that before? I guess this would be the first time I've actually seen an FYA accomplish something that couldn't be done with a doghouse.

Do you mean with a doghouse? Otherwise normal operation. Since left turns don't interfere with oncoming lefts, there's no reason not to allow it. Also permits lead/lag without dedicated turn lanes.

Minnesota has used the setup before:

https://youtu.be/onyZQcgkMOw

Also Wisconsin:

https://youtu.be/A_L0EMMptRg

Completely random sidenote, but the Wisconsin video was filmed by me, I have a nicer camera now, would any of you like me to try to obtain some better footage of the two FYA doghouse setups in Eau Claire? The 3 videos I have were filmed with my phone.

[jakeroot]

Completely random sidenote, but the Wisconsin video was filmed by me, I have a nicer camera now, would any of you like me to try to obtain some better footage of the two FYA doghouse setups in Eau Claire? The 3 videos I have were filmed with my phone.

I intended to give you credit, but I could not remember or find your username. Was hoping you might spot me sharing the video. I remember you mentioning the video on a comment on one of my YouTube videos, which is how I found it.

Would definitely like to see some new video! Those older videos are definitely a little shaky. Try and find a small tripod. I have one with magnets on the legs, and I stick it sideways onto various poles.