NY 17/"I-86"

[vdeane]

My understanding was that the ramp from the Northway is owned by Pyramid Corporation (the owners of the mall), while the ramp to the Northway is owned by the Town of Guilderland.

[cl94]

My understanding was that the ramp from the Northway is owned by Pyramid Corporation (the owners of the mall), while the ramp to the Northway is owned by the Town of Guilderland.

That sounds correct, even though bridge records say NYSDOT owns both. Exit to the mall opened with the mall in 1984. Entrance ramp opened in 1993-4 around the time of the expansion. Guilderland probably ponied up the money to build it so the mall would stop dumping traffic onto US 20.

[Strider]

My understanding was that the ramp from the Northway is owned by Pyramid Corporation (the owners of the mall), while the ramp to the Northway is owned by the Town of Guilderland.

That sounds correct, even though bridge records say NYSDOT owns both. Exit to the mall opened with the mall in 1984. Entrance ramp opened in 1993-4 around the time of the expansion. Guilderland probably ponied up the money to build it so the mall would stop dumping traffic onto US 20.

A question: Is there any reason why NY 17 between Waverly and Binghamton isn't already designed I-86? The road seems to be interstate standards unless I am missing something?

[hbelkins]

My understanding was that the ramp from the Northway is owned by Pyramid Corporation (the owners of the mall), while the ramp to the Northway is owned by the Town of Guilderland.

That sounds correct, even though bridge records say NYSDOT owns both. Exit to the mall opened with the mall in 1984. Entrance ramp opened in 1993-4 around the time of the expansion. Guilderland probably ponied up the money to build it so the mall would stop dumping traffic onto US 20.

A question: Is there any reason why NY 17 between Waverly and Binghamton isn't already designed I-86? The road seems to be interstate standards unless I am missing something?

Probably some obscure requirement about median width or something.

[cl94]

My understanding was that the ramp from the Northway is owned by Pyramid Corporation (the owners of the mall), while the ramp to the Northway is owned by the Town of Guilderland.

That sounds correct, even though bridge records say NYSDOT owns both. Exit to the mall opened with the mall in 1984. Entrance ramp opened in 1993-4 around the time of the expansion. Guilderland probably ponied up the money to build it so the mall would stop dumping traffic onto US 20.

A question: Is there any reason why NY 17 between Waverly and Binghamton isn't already designed I-86? The road seems to be interstate standards unless I am missing something?

Probably some obscure requirement about median width or something.

At this point, I think all of the upgrades on that section have been completed. It was mostly (if not entirely) minor stuff, like minor adjustments to ramp geometry and new guiderails. They're waiting to designate until the Prospect Mountain project is substantially complete. I will note that there is a decent amount of I-86 signage along that segment that they've stopped trying to hide.

[vdeane]

There was a project for Tioga County a few years ago; I think there's some additional stuff in western Broome County, but whether it was rolled into the Prospect Mountain project or done already, I don't know.  It's interesting that the stuff on the guide signs is just plain I-86, and yet the TO banners on the reassurance shields don't look very temporary.

[seicer]

They have pretty much stopped recovering I-86 signs further east by I-84 long ago. Speaking of - will the NY 17 designation even exist? Some of the I-86 signs are pretty much in front of NY 17 signs, so it doesn't appear that it will be dual signed. Additionally, many mile markers now sport I-86 shields - something I hadn't noticed before.

Now if they can raise the absurdly low speed limits around Liberty and through the Catskills where the "sharp" curves provide infinite speed traps for the local police. (Meanwhile, other states like West Virginia do just fine with 70 MPH.)

[GreenLanternCorps]

My understanding was that the ramp from the Northway is owned by Pyramid Corporation (the owners of the mall), while the ramp to the Northway is owned by the Town of Guilderland.

That sounds correct, even though bridge records say NYSDOT owns both. Exit to the mall opened with the mall in 1984. Entrance ramp opened in 1993-4 around the time of the expansion. Guilderland probably ponied up the money to build it so the mall would stop dumping traffic onto US 20.

A question: Is there any reason why NY 17 between Waverly and Binghamton isn't already designed I-86? The road seems to be interstate standards unless I am missing something?

Probably some obscure requirement about median width or something.

At this point, I think all of the upgrades on that section have been completed. It was mostly (if not entirely) minor stuff, like minor adjustments to ramp geometry and new guiderails. They're waiting to designate until the Prospect Mountain project is substantially complete. I will note that there is a decent amount of I-86 signage along that segment that they've stopped trying to hide.

What is left to be done on the Prospect Mountain Project?  I went to the NYS DOT site and it helpfully told me what was planned for 2016.  I'm hoping they have made progress since then.

[vdeane]

That would have been the end of phase 1.  We're now in phase 2, eliminating the weave between NY 17 and NY 7.

[AMLNet49]

Since they have kind of gone rogue and signed 86 at certain points anyway, especially from I-84, with no recourse, what’s to say they couldn’t sign it from 87 and “complete” the road by having it unofficially signed on all intersecting interstates?

Better yet why couldn’t they post I-shields with “NY” in the crown, maybe white text on all black, along the entire non-interstate route and call that part NY 86? Rhode Island used to have a pretend interstate like this, RI-195 which used black text on white shields. Ironically this road is today US 6 and not the current I-195.

Or even if you can’t do that just call it NY 86, put regular NY shield on there, and be done, after exchasting all other options. At least give us the appearance of a continuous completed road.

But I definitely think the only way I-86 will ever be “completed” from Lake Erie to the Catskills is by fudging with the designations and route numbers, which is absolutely worth doing to be able to say they “finished” the project instead of just quitting in the middle with the designation half-applied. It’s confusing and sloppy

[cl94]

Since they have kind of gone rogue and signed 86 at certain points anyway, especially from I-84, with no recourse, what's to say they couldn't sign it from 87 and "complete"  the road by having it unofficially signed on all intersecting interstates?

Better yet why couldn't they post I-shields with "NY"  in the crown, maybe white text on all black, along the entire non-interstate route and call that part NY 86? Rhode Island used to have a pretend interstate like this, RI-195 which used black text on white shields. Ironically this road is today US 6 and not the current I-195.

Or even if you can't do that just call it NY 86, put regular NY shield on there, and be done, after exchasting all other options. At least give us the appearance of a continuous completed road.

But I definitely think the only way I-86 will ever be "completed"  from Lake Erie to the Catskills is by fudging with the designations and route numbers, which is absolutely worth doing to be able to say they "finished"  the project instead of just quitting in the middle with the designation half-applied. It's confusing and sloppy

NY 86 already exists in the Adirondacks. That being said, it'll be upgraded at some point because NY 17 will need major reconstruction. The Quickway is almost 70 years old and they are doing upgrades as bridges are replaced and the like. I expect much of the portion east of I-84 to get upgraded in the relatively near future with Legoland. That basically leaves the area around the Exit 111 RIRO and Hale Eddy.

[vdeane]

The only thing I'm aware of tied to Legoland is redoing exit 125, which oddly enough wasn't on Rothman's list.  And Legoland itself isn't a done deal, either; the NIMBYs are trying to get the project stopped.

[02 Park Ave]

What effect will the opening of the casino have?

[Strider]

So, after the Prospect Mountain interchange upgrade is completed, I can assume I-86 will be signed from Waverly all the way to Binghamton, therefore completing I-86 from I-90 to I-81 for time being?

[cl94]

So, after the Prospect Mountain interchange upgrade is completed, I can assume I-86 will be signed from Waverly all the way to Binghamton, therefore completing I-86 from I-90 to I-81 for time being?

Yes. It will be signed from I-90 to NY 79.

What effect will the opening of the casino have?

Unknown. Most of the Monticello - I-84 segment is Interstate grade (or close to it) minus Rock Hill, which has a ton of local opposition.

The only thing I'm aware of tied to Legoland is redoing exit 125, which oddly enough wasn't on Rothman's list.  And Legoland itself isn't a done deal, either; the NIMBYs are trying to get the project stopped.

Who knows what's going to happen there? Of course, that area has a ton of NIMBYs who don't seem to realize that Harriman/Sterling Forest State Parks are no longer the northern boundary of the New York metro on the west side of the Hudson.

[Rothman]

The only thing I'm aware of tied to Legoland is redoing exit 125, which oddly enough wasn't on Rothman's list.  And Legoland itself isn't a done deal, either; the NIMBYs are trying to get the project stopped.

NIMBYs have failed in this regard.  Legoland-related improvements are not connected to the conversion, insomuch as I am aware.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[Alps]

Since they have kind of gone rogue and signed 86 at certain points anyway, especially from I-84, with no recourse, what's to say they couldn't sign it from 87 and "complete"  the road by having it unofficially signed on all intersecting interstates?

Better yet why couldn't they post I-shields with "NY"  in the crown, maybe white text on all black, along the entire non-interstate route and call that part NY 86? Rhode Island used to have a pretend interstate like this, RI-195 which used black text on white shields. Ironically this road is today US 6 and not the current I-195.

(that's not ironic, but) Do you happen to have a photo of those 195 shields?

[AMLNet49]

Since they have kind of gone rogue and signed 86 at certain points anyway, especially from I-84, with no recourse, what's to say they couldn't sign it from 87 and "complete"  the road by having it unofficially signed on all intersecting interstates?

Better yet why couldn't they post I-shields with "NY"  in the crown, maybe white text on all black, along the entire non-interstate route and call that part NY 86? Rhode Island used to have a pretend interstate like this, RI-195 which used black text on white shields. Ironically this road is today US 6 and not the current I-195.

(that's not ironic, but) Do you happen to have a photo of those 195 shields?

Nope I've just heard about it. And imo it is ironic, because they went in so hard on making that road fake I-195 only to have the real 195 be somewhere else

[PHLBOS]

Since they have kind of gone rogue and signed 86 at certain points anyway, especially from I-84, with no recourse, what's to say they couldn't sign it from 87 and "complete"  the road by having it unofficially signed on all intersecting interstates?

Better yet why couldn't they post I-shields with "NY"  in the crown, maybe white text on all black, along the entire non-interstate route and call that part NY 86? Rhode Island used to have a pretend interstate like this, RI-195 which used black text on white shields. Ironically this road is today US 6 and not the current I-195.

(that's not ironic, but) Do you happen to have a photo of those 195 shields?

Nope I've just heard about it. And imo it is ironic, because they went in so hard on making that road fake I-195 only to have the real 195 be somewhere else

No actual photo but here's what RI-195 shield basically looked like.

IIRC, the actual shields featured the above-I-shape was on a white rectangular shield.  I remember seeing these shields, in the flesh so to speak, during the mid-1980s.

[cl94]

So basically your typical RIDOT shield. Got it.

[PHLBOS]

So basically your typical RIDOT shield. Got it.

Not quite.  Here's an example of a standard RI route shield:

Photo from Alpsroads.net

The rectangular signs with the Interstate-looking RI 195 shields did not feature a black rectangular border.

[cl94]

So basically your typical RIDOT shield. Got it.

Not quite.  Here's an example of a standard RI route shield:
[image snipped]

The rectangular signs with the Interstate-looking RI 195 shields did not feature a black rectangular border.

That's not what I meant (courtesy Alps's site)

[Roadsguy]

Were the white square backgrounds used even on the overhead signs like a white version of what New Jersey does?

[AMLNet49]

I think the bottom line is that it's possible to fudge things this way, because it'll just never happen otherwise, maybe once the entire road is reconstructed over a period of decades. And you're left with a confusing-looking map. Maybe you could even sign NY 17 from the Thruway as "NY 17 to I-86", if they didnt want to go the "faux"-interstate route.

[Roadgeek Adam]

Why fudge it? The entire project was a waste of time.

Leave 86 the mess that is and never add anymore upgrades.