Wisconsin notes

[triplemultiplex]

I disagree.  It's not about thru lanes as much as it is about turning traffic.  All those locations you cite where a four lane, undivided road was turned into a two lane road with a continuous center left turn lane are packed with driveway entrances.  Lots of left turns being made.
These proposed upgrades around the FoxConJob are to rural roads with few driveways and therefore, few left turns that will 'block' a travel lane when a vehicle is waiting for traffic to clear to make its turn.
Add to that the high volume of traffic expected around shift changes and multi-lane undivided roads will be superior to the 'three lane' layout used elsewhere.

[dvferyance]

Looking at the roadways within the Foxconn Project they're all multi lane roads with traffic signals.  No roundabouts or 3 lane roads which WISDOT has been high on lately. 

I like the proposed roadways but if they're essentially admitting 4 lane roads are better than 3 why are they forcing it on people statewide?  Shawano, Park Falls, Appleton, Black River Falls, and Prairie Du Chien are some places where 4 lane roads have been reduced to 3 or 2 recently.

Roundabouts are bad for semis which there will be a lot of there so I think that was a good call.

[The Ghostbuster]

If roundabouts are bad for semis, why has WISDOT built so many roundabouts around the state over the past 20 years? Do you know personally about any semis having crashes or semis getting stuck within the circles of roundabouts?

[SEWIGuy]

If roundabouts are bad for semis, why has WISDOT built so many roundabouts around the state over the past 20 years? Do you know personally about any semis having crashes or semis getting stuck within the circles of roundabouts?

Some extenuating circumstances, but...

http://archive.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/taxpayers-to-fork-out-165000-to-modify-waukesha-county-roundabout-4265dis-168989416.html/

[dvferyance]

If roundabouts are bad for semis, why has WISDOT built so many roundabouts around the state over the past 20 years? Do you know personally about any semis having crashes or semis getting stuck within the circles of roundabouts?

You think wisdot knows everything? Because they are idiots over there that is why. Just watch a youtube video of a semi truck driver try to navigate through one and you will see how hard it is to drive I truck through there. I have also heard about it from truck drivers on talk shows. Roundabouts and semis not a good combination.

[SEWIGuy]

If roundabouts are bad for semis, why has WISDOT built so many roundabouts around the state over the past 20 years? Do you know personally about any semis having crashes or semis getting stuck within the circles of roundabouts?

You think wisdot knows everything? Because they are idiots over there that is why. Just watch a youtube video of a semi truck driver try to navigate through one and you will see how hard it is to drive I truck through there. I have also heard about it from truck drivers on talk shows. Roundabouts and semis not a good combination.

So typical of today's society.  Believing Youtube videos and talk-shows instead of experts in the field.  All you have to add is "talk radio" and you'll have completed the "ignorance trifecta."

[DaBigE]

If roundabouts are bad for semis, why has WISDOT built so many roundabouts around the state over the past 20 years? Do you know personally about any semis having crashes or semis getting stuck within the circles of roundabouts?

You think wisdot knows everything? Because they are idiots over there that is why. Just watch a youtube video of a semi truck driver try to navigate through one and you will see how hard it is to drive I truck through there. I have also heard about it from truck drivers on talk shows. Roundabouts and semis not a good combination.

Yes, because talk shows are objective on who they talk to. And when it comes to talk radio, one word: 'screeners'. It's all a business; people who agree with something don't sell papers/bring in the viewers/listeners.

[GeekJedi]

If roundabouts are bad for semis, why has WISDOT built so many roundabouts around the state over the past 20 years? Do you know personally about any semis having crashes or semis getting stuck within the circles of roundabouts?

You think wisdot knows everything? Because they are idiots over there that is why. Just watch a youtube video of a semi truck driver try to navigate through one and you will see how hard it is to drive I truck through there. I have also heard about it from truck drivers on talk shows. Roundabouts and semis not a good combination.

Yes, because talk shows are objective on who they talk to. And when it comes to talk radio, one word: 'screeners'. It's all a business; people who agree with something don't sell papers/bring in the viewers/listeners.

BUT MARK BELLING SAYS THEY'RE AN EXPENSIVE THING CONCEIVED BY LIBERALS!!!

[DaBigE]

If roundabouts are bad for semis, why has WISDOT built so many roundabouts around the state over the past 20 years? Do you know personally about any semis having crashes or semis getting stuck within the circles of roundabouts?

You think wisdot knows everything? Because they are idiots over there that is why. Just watch a youtube video of a semi truck driver try to navigate through one and you will see how hard it is to drive I truck through there. I have also heard about it from truck drivers on talk shows. Roundabouts and semis not a good combination.

Yes, because talk shows are objective on who they talk to. And when it comes to talk radio, one word: 'screeners'. It's all a business; people who agree with something don't sell papers/bring in the viewers/listeners.

BUT MARK BELLING SAYS THEY'RE AN EXPENSIVE THING CONCEIVED BY LIBERALS!!!

Mark Belling...

Here's a spin on roundabouts for him to discuss: Roundabouts encourage free thought; traffic signals are just another way of the government telling you what to do and controlling your life.

[The Ghostbuster]

What does right-wing radio talk show host Mark Belling have to do with roundabouts anyway? Nothing!

[GeekJedi]

What does right-wing radio talk show host Mark Belling have to do with roundabouts anyway? Nothing!

What does he have to do with it? He's an outspoken critic of them. Thanks for asking!

[SEWIGuy]

What does right-wing radio talk show host Mark Belling have to do with roundabouts anyway? Nothing!

What does he have to do with it? He's an outspoken critic of them. Thanks for asking!

And since dvferyance parrots all of Belling's talking points on the issue (and on gas taxes), it's safe to say that this is where he gets his "ideas."

[The Ghostbuster]

I don't listen to talk radio, so I wouldn't know what they say. In any event, I don't have a problem with roundabouts. For those who do, maybe they should get together to found an anti-roundabout coalition.

[MNHighwayMan]

I don't listen to talk radio, so I wouldn't know what they say. In any event, I don't have a problem with roundabouts. For those who do, maybe they should get together to found an anti-roundabout coalition.

They did; it's the "Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'" thread.

[Milwaukee, WY]

I don't listen to talk radio, so I wouldn't know what they say. In any event, I don't have a problem with roundabouts. For those who do, maybe they should get together to found an anti-roundabout coalition.

They did; it's the "Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'" thread.

Seriously? They're not hard to understand. I got my 66 year old mother to understand how they work with a 30 second drive through one. Yield to traffic from the left. How hard is that??


iPhone

[triplemultiplex]

Never underestimate some people's ability to resist change.

[Rothman]

I don't listen to talk radio, so I wouldn't know what they say. In any event, I don't have a problem with roundabouts. For those who do, maybe they should get together to found an anti-roundabout coalition.

They did; it's the "Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'" thread.

Seriously? They're not hard to understand. I got my 66 year old mother to understand how they work with a 30 second drive through one. Yield to traffic from the left. How hard is that??


iPhone

Read tradephoric's thread.  His selection of data and defense thereof is...unique...but lots of decent info in there.

[jakeroot]

I don't listen to talk radio, so I wouldn't know what they say. In any event, I don't have a problem with roundabouts. For those who do, maybe they should get together to found an anti-roundabout coalition.

They did; it's the "Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'" thread.

Seriously? They're not hard to understand. I got my 66 year old mother to understand how they work with a 30 second drive through one. Yield to traffic from the left. How hard is that??

Read tradephoric's thread.  His selection of data and defense thereof is...unique...but lots of decent info in there.

Right. I was pretty pro-roundabout for a long time. And I still have this piece of me that's pretty sure things will improve as roundabouts become more common. But the data he's presented is hard to ignore. These 2x2 (and larger) roundabouts just don't seem to perform well. They are far from deathtraps, but signals aren't exactly deathtraps either.

His main argument has become more about the cost of small-time crashes (no injuries except to the cars involved), of which there is almost universally more of than at signals.

[Rothman]

It is the data he leaves out that is also interesting.  Like I said, read the entire thread.

[jakeroot]

It is the data he leaves out that is also interesting.  Like I said, read the entire thread.

But he doesn't exactly have a ton of data to go off. Many (if not, most) cities don't publish crash data.

[Rothman]

It is the data he leaves out that is also interesting.  Like I said, read the entire thread.

But he doesn't exactly have a ton of data to go off. Many (if not, most) cities don't publish crash data.

That is why I leave it to serious researchers  who take the time to make FOIA/FOIL requests to get it.  I trust conclusions based upon more complete sets of data.

Also, he tends to outright ignore data that goes against his mantra, such as the drop offs in incidents on some of his highlighted roundabouts in the past.

[Rothman]

If a moderator wants to move this back into tradephoric's thread, fine by me.

[merrycilantro]

Tolls in the news again...what are the odds that we're going to start to see them, especially I'd assume starting from the IL Line up to Milwaukee? I saw an infographic on the hypothetical cost of how much a toll would be between the WI cities. Attempting to unpack the thought, it'd take cars off the Interstates and force those who want to travel free to use secondary highways (which admittedly will cause more wear and tear on them, but money saved from the hypothetical tollways should then be free to use on them, right?

[SEWIGuy]

I just think that not many people are going to avoid a toll road as long as it's a reasonable price.  Would a lot of people avoid paying a toll if it were $5 from Milwaukee to the IL line?  There isn't an easy alternative...WI-31 or US-45?  I think people value their time more than that.  That's exactly what you see in Illinois with so many people taking the Tri-State instead of US-41.

[skluth]

I just think that not many people are going to avoid a toll road as long as it's a reasonable price.  Would a lot of people avoid paying a toll if it were $5 from Milwaukee to the IL line?  There isn't an easy alternative...WI-31 or US-45?  I think people value their time more than that.  That's exactly what you see in Illinois with so many people taking the Tri-State instead of US-41.

I don't know if Wisconsin is willing to set up toll booths on all the ramps along the I-94 corridor from Milwaukee to the state line. I always thought the best place for a toll was the I-39/90/94 bridge over the Wisconsin River. There are no good shunpike alternatives. (US 12 might be used by some and US 51 could be used by those headed towards Point, but are inconvenient enough to be little used.) It also gets a lot of tourist and out-of-state traffic, making it an easier sell. The I-39/90 bridge over the Rock River is much the same.