Announced yesterday (https://guthrie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387291&fbclid=IwAR2L39Ll8DvVW04KIJCej0LUUvwJ1s5DB_X8xjA2-Cs2OBpsIYBE2uA_jx0) (link to congressional press release)
will all the parkways eventually become interstates?
Might as well extend it to I-75 while they are at it
SM-G950U
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 25, 2020, 03:34:08 PM
will all the parkways eventually become interstates?
Doubtful. I don't foresee the Mountain Parkway getting an interstate designation. Even with the ongoing four-laning, there will be some substandard exits that really aren't worth spending the money on to bring them up to standards. Plus, I don't think the new four-lane portions fully meet current interstate standards.
And the
Daniel Boone Hal Rogers Parkway is a super-2 and they've added at-grades along the route since the tolls were removed, so it's a big "no" for that route.
The signs along the Audubon Parkway designating it as a future I-69 spur have long since been removed.
:clap: Finally seeing this one become reality :clap:
I will say that I think the Bluegrass Parkway has the best chance of being the next interstate upgrade, likely an odd I-x65. I think the Cumberland will get 365 and (if upgraded) the Bluegrass 765 1) since those numbers are not in use anywhere else, 2) since I-565 was the original proposal for the Natcher upgrade to I-165, and 3) it would put the odd I-x65s in increasing order as you go north on I-65 (I-165 exit 20, I-365 exit 43, I-765 exit 93). This assuming they don't make the transpark connector a 3di.
On a related note, I haven't heard much from the I-569 designation for the WK lately, and that was designated 1 and a half years ago.
I'm not surprised that the Cumberland Parkway will finally becoming an I-x65. I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet. As for the Bluegrass Parkway, I'd leave it as KY 9002, unless Kentucky wants to make like Texas and North Carolina and make every limited access highway an Interstate.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:57:51 PM
I'm not surprised that the Cumberland Parkway will finally becoming an I-x65. I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet. As for the Bluegrass Parkway, I'd leave it as KY 9002, unless Kentucky wants to make like Texas and North Carolina and make every limited access highway an Interstate.
What's wrong with what North Carolina and Texas are doing? I support their new Interstates, although I would prefer that Texas work on corridors other than what they're working on now (US 287 and Austin-Houston instead of I-14).
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2020, 06:01:14 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:57:51 PM
I'm not surprised that the Cumberland Parkway will finally becoming an I-x65. I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet. As for the Bluegrass Parkway, I'd leave it as KY 9002, unless Kentucky wants to make like Texas and North Carolina and make every limited access highway an Interstate.
What's wrong with what North Carolina and Texas are doing? I support their new Interstates, although I would prefer that Texas work on corridors other than what they're working on now (US 287 and Austin-Houston instead of I-14).
neither state knows how to number their highways
They might as well make the Audubon I-369 while they're at it.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:57:51 PM
unless Kentucky wants to make like Texas and North Carolina and make every limited access highway an Interstate.
Texas and North Carolina are no where close to having plans to make every limited access highway an interstate.
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2020, 06:01:14 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:57:51 PM
I'm not surprised that the Cumberland Parkway will finally becoming an I-x65. I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet. As for the Bluegrass Parkway, I'd leave it as KY 9002, unless Kentucky wants to make like Texas and North Carolina and make every limited access highway an Interstate.
What's wrong with what North Carolina and Texas are doing? I support their new Interstates, although I would prefer that Texas work on corridors other than what they're working on now (US 287 and Austin-Houston instead of I-14).
I think you overthink I-14. I-14 might get extended as far as SH-6 or maybe I-45. I doubt even that. Sure there is a coalition pushing for SEVERAL so-called corridors. I-14 was built to make sure the Fort Hood community had interstate access. It helps in future BRACC type reorganizations and it helps the attitude of the brass who passed through on their way up. I-14 is the Texas equivalent to the new Barksdale AFB main gate. Just a way to cozy up to the military bases.
I agree that SH-114 and US287 need to be upgraded all the way to Amarillo. (Southlake to Decatur, to Amarillo.)
As to Austin to Houston, that will happen. It may not get an Interstate badge, but it will be 3x3 on much of it. 2x2 on other parts. Likely this will complete before I-69/369 to Texarkana or the Louisiana State Line.
As to I-69 and its children, this was just short of mandated by the US congress. At worst, building I-69 is a way for TXDOT to get away with spending money to build (needed) freeways without the budget hawks and freeway opponents throwing fits. Another way to look at it it is making Houston like Dallas (and to a lesser level San Antonio and Fort Worth) be a three Interstate city. Texarkana has some of that brag coming too.
As to every freeway must be an Interstate in Texas????? SH288 Houston south. US-75 Dallas North (That has been 100% controlled access since the mid-1990's.) SH183, 114. and 121 (Some admittedly is toll) Large swatches of SH-6. Parts of US-290. Various toll roads operated by HCTRA, NTTA, and TXDOT. AND FM1760 in Texas City
Until I-14 and I-69/I-2 there had not been a new interstate in Texas since interstate 27 and Interstate 44 in the seventies.
It doesn't mean it won't become I-66 eventually-- after all, I-495 in North Carolina became I-87, and it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of making I-165 be I-67 didn't come around again at some point in the future.
Quote from: Finrod on September 25, 2020, 11:48:28 PM
It doesn't mean it won't become I-66 eventually-- after all, I-495 in North Carolina became I-87, and it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of making I-165 be I-67 didn't come around again at some point in the future.
I-66 certainly won't be around in the foreseeable future by any means, as there is likely plenty of new terrain route that'll need to be built, not to mention it will require multiple states to get on board. I think if there were a 2di down there, it would have a number in the 40s or 50s, not 66. (If I need explain I will).
Quote from: Finrod on September 25, 2020, 11:48:28 PM
It doesn't mean it won't become I-66 eventually-- after all, I-495 in North Carolina became I-87, and it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of making I-165 be I-67 didn't come around again at some point in the future.
The concept of a Raleigh-Norfolk corridor had long existed before I-495 was designated - I-495 was a piece of it - but it had always been intended to be extended in the future, and just a few years later, was replaced with I-87. The majority of the US-64 / US-17 corridor is built out to freeway standards, only around 50 miles of non-limited-access highway remain between the Virginia state line and Williamston, excluding bypasses.
"I-44" - ultimately I-87 - was in the planning before I-495 was designated.
I-66 between Somerset and Strasburg, VA? Not likely.
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 26, 2020, 12:13:38 AM
Quote from: Finrod on September 25, 2020, 11:48:28 PM
It doesn't mean it won't become I-66 eventually-- after all, I-495 in North Carolina became I-87, and it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of making I-165 be I-67 didn't come around again at some point in the future.
The concept of a Raleigh-Norfolk corridor had long existed before I-495 was designated - I-495 was a piece of it - but it had always been intended to be extended in the future, and just a few years later, was replaced with I-87. The majority of the US-64 / US-17 corridor is built out to freeway standards, only around 50 miles of non-limited-access highway remain between the Virginia state line and Williamston, excluding bypasses.
"I-44" - ultimately I-87 - was in the planning before I-495 was designated.
I-66 between Somerset and Strasburg, VA? Not likely.
A 200 mile route, much of which constructed to some expressway standard, that connects major metropolitan areas vs. A 400+ mile route that goes through the middle of nowhere on new terrain and the largest city it may go through is less than 50,000 people in city proper population.
I agree, completely different circumstances.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2020, 04:55:13 PM
The signs along the Audubon Parkway designating it as a future I-69 spur have long since been removed.
The Future I-69 Spur signs may be gone from the Audubon, but federal legislation signed in 2008 that designates the Audubon as a future interstate remains in place. The main obstacle to signing the Audubon as an interstate is the connection with I-69. Progress on the Ohio River Bridge (I-69 ORX) and its approaches, which includes an interchange with the Audubon, has stalled due to the ongoing fight over the future of the US-41 bridges once the tolled I-69 bridge opens.
You won't see anything done with the Audubon until the I-69 ORX is built.
Rather than 3d this and 3d that changing over some of these parkways, I think that they should have put together a scenario where they could have linked the Audubon, Green River, and Cumberland Parkways into one 2d (46-62 are available and would fit the grid). They could then extend the Cumberland to I-75, and it would be a contiguous route and could be kind of a Nashville/Louisville bypass to anyone headed SE towards Knoxville, Charlotte, etc.
As much as it might be neat to see, I don't see an improvement of the Hal Rogers or the US25E/US58 corridor to interstate standards to extend the route unless the federal government gets as generous as they did with the banks back in 2008/2009.
Does anyone really call the Natcher Parkeay the Green River Parkway?
Quote from: Life in Paradise on September 26, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
Rather than 3d this and 3d that changing over some of these parkways, I think that they should have put together a scenario where they could have linked the Audubon, Green River, and Cumberland Parkways into one 2d (46-62 are available and would fit the grid). They could then extend the Cumberland to I-75, and it would be a contiguous route and could be kind of a Nashville/Louisville bypass to anyone headed SE towards Knoxville, Charlotte, etc.
As much as it might be neat to see, I don't see an improvement of the Hal Rogers or the US25E/US58 corridor to interstate standards to extend the route unless the federal government gets as generous as they did with the banks back in 2008/2009.
Actually, I'm somewhat surprised that Owensboro boosters didn't push for
I-63 for the combination Natcher/US 60/Audubon corridor -- once they got the message that IN interests weren't planning on pushing terribly hard for a I-67 along US 231. If they'd dropped it in McConnell's lap he probably would have gone for it. Oh well -- they snoozed, they lost!
Quote from: Rothman on September 26, 2020, 05:57:17 PM
Does anyone really call the Natcher Parkeay the Green River Parkway?
Probably not, but I've been around since when the Natcher (Green River) was originally built (matter of fact Pennyrile and Audubon as well), and at lot of times I still refer to them by the original name.
Quote from: sparker on September 27, 2020, 01:23:13 AM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on September 26, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
Rather than 3d this and 3d that changing over some of these parkways, I think that they should have put together a scenario where they could have linked the Audubon, Green River, and Cumberland Parkways into one 2d (46-62 are available and would fit the grid). They could then extend the Cumberland to I-75, and it would be a contiguous route and could be kind of a Nashville/Louisville bypass to anyone headed SE towards Knoxville, Charlotte, etc.
As much as it might be neat to see, I don't see an improvement of the Hal Rogers or the US25E/US58 corridor to interstate standards to extend the route unless the federal government gets as generous as they did with the banks back in 2008/2009.
Actually, I'm somewhat surprised that Owensboro boosters didn't push for I-63 for the combination Natcher/US 60/Audubon corridor -- once they got the message that IN interests weren't planning on pushing terribly hard for a I-67 along US 231. If they'd dropped it in McConnell's lap he probably would have gone for it. Oh well -- they snoozed, they lost!
That's a decent idea that they missed. Although I would have loved an extension going straight down to hook into I-840 to make a bypass of Nashville for I-65 travelers. I love Nashville, but hate driving through it due to the traffic and no good north/south bypass of the metro.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on September 27, 2020, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 27, 2020, 01:23:13 AM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on September 26, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
Rather than 3d this and 3d that changing over some of these parkways, I think that they should have put together a scenario where they could have linked the Audubon, Green River, and Cumberland Parkways into one 2d (46-62 are available and would fit the grid). They could then extend the Cumberland to I-75, and it would be a contiguous route and could be kind of a Nashville/Louisville bypass to anyone headed SE towards Knoxville, Charlotte, etc.
As much as it might be neat to see, I don't see an improvement of the Hal Rogers or the US25E/US58 corridor to interstate standards to extend the route unless the federal government gets as generous as they did with the banks back in 2008/2009.
Actually, I'm somewhat surprised that Owensboro boosters didn't push for I-63 for the combination Natcher/US 60/Audubon corridor -- once they got the message that IN interests weren't planning on pushing terribly hard for a I-67 along US 231. If they'd dropped it in McConnell's lap he probably would have gone for it. Oh well -- they snoozed, they lost!
That's a decent idea that they missed. Although I would have loved an extension going straight down to hook into I-840 to make a bypass of Nashville for I-65 travelers. I love Nashville, but hate driving through it due to the traffic and no good north/south bypass of the metro.
if they finished 840 you would have your wish!
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 27, 2020, 04:06:40 PM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on September 27, 2020, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 27, 2020, 01:23:13 AM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on September 26, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
Rather than 3d this and 3d that changing over some of these parkways, I think that they should have put together a scenario where they could have linked the Audubon, Green River, and Cumberland Parkways into one 2d (46-62 are available and would fit the grid). They could then extend the Cumberland to I-75, and it would be a contiguous route and could be kind of a Nashville/Louisville bypass to anyone headed SE towards Knoxville, Charlotte, etc.
As much as it might be neat to see, I don't see an improvement of the Hal Rogers or the US25E/US58 corridor to interstate standards to extend the route unless the federal government gets as generous as they did with the banks back in 2008/2009.
Actually, I'm somewhat surprised that Owensboro boosters didn't push for I-63 for the combination Natcher/US 60/Audubon corridor -- once they got the message that IN interests weren't planning on pushing terribly hard for a I-67 along US 231. If they'd dropped it in McConnell's lap he probably would have gone for it. Oh well -- they snoozed, they lost!
That's a decent idea that they missed. Although I would have loved an extension going straight down to hook into I-840 to make a bypass of Nashville for I-65 travelers. I love Nashville, but hate driving through it due to the traffic and no good north/south bypass of the metro.
if they finished 840 you would have your wish!
I've iterated before that an extension north from the east terminus of I-840 roughly along US 231 and tying directly into the Natcher stub SE of I-65 would make a really nice Nashville metro bypass for N-S I-65 traffic. Would hardly be a corridor that would address needs other than that bypass, however; I-24/169/69 is a more direct Nashville-Evansville route. More a relief route than anything else. But the concept of a combination Cumberland/Natcher/Audubon even-numbered 2 di is intriguing as well; but until plans are finalized for a Somerset-to-I-75 segment are finalized, the x65's on Cumberland and Natcher would function fine as placeholders. Personally, I'd like to see something like I-54 as the ultimate number for such a corridor.
Why is KYTC relying on Congress for the Interstate designation rather than submitting a request to AASHTO itself?
Don't have to worry about meeting all of AASHTO's criteria.
KYTC is simply relying on Congress for the route number instead of AASHTO. They still have to submit the proper requests and documentation to FHWA to actually sign it as an Interstate.
In short, Congress dictates the route number. FHWA dictates when it's actually added to the system...which, given precedent including past Congressional numbering action, won't be unless/until the route is up to standard.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on September 27, 2020, 03:45:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 26, 2020, 05:57:17 PM
Does anyone really call the Natcher Parkeay the Green River Parkway?
Probably not, but I've been around since when the Natcher (Green River) was originally built (matter of fact Pennyrile and Audubon as well), and at lot of times I still refer to them by the original name.
Having just rode on the entire length of I-165 between Bowling Green and Owensboro, there are zero signs posted for William H Natcher Pkwy. There are however small guide signs on I-165 indicating that it is the William H Natcher Expressway, but they not consistently posted.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2020, 04:55:13 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 25, 2020, 03:34:08 PM
will all the parkways eventually become interstates?
Doubtful. I don't foresee the Mountain Parkway getting an interstate designation. Even with the ongoing four-laning, there will be some substandard exits that really aren't worth spending the money on to bring them up to standards. Plus, I don't think the new four-lane portions fully meet current interstate standards.
And the Daniel Boone Hal Rogers Parkway is a super-2 and they've added at-grades along the route since the tolls were removed, so it's a big "no" for that route.
The signs along the Audubon Parkway designating it as a future I-69 spur have long since been removed.
I would hope they would fix at least some of the interchanges on the Mountain Parkway. The eastbound on ramp at Exit 22 is dangerous. I was driving it late on a Friday night about a month ago on the way to a Scout campout and had to move to the left lane sharply when a truck suddenly appeared on my right coming up and on to the freeway...
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8409383,-83.8612846,3a,75y,306.93h,92.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scHgwIcCPYxkZxisgaZvWKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:57:51 PM
I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet.
and then they could call it I-366 during leap years
:D
I hate that merge also
SM-G950U
Quote from: Buck87 on September 28, 2020, 09:09:37 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:57:51 PM
I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet.
and then they could call it I-366 during leap years
:D
But would it have an 85 MPH speed limit?
Quote from: froggie on September 28, 2020, 11:45:41 AM
Quote from: Buck87 on September 28, 2020, 09:09:37 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:57:51 PM
I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet.
and then they could call it I-366 during leap years
:D
But would it have an 85 MPH speed limit?
Only if it passes near an underutilized airport that no one really needs to get to in a hurry! But in south-central KY?
Can we assume it'll be like 165 in that they will sign it without upgrading the last 'parkway' interchange(s)? (Is there only one of the Old Style interchanges left on the Cumberland or is it two? Going from memory here.)
Heh, I wonder if KY can double its pre-I-69 interstate mileage just by promoting parkways. :P
Regardless of whether the Cumberland Parkway becomes a 3-digit Interstate, or remains KY 9008, are there any plans to extend the parkway east of US 27? Or were those plans canceled along with the Interstate 66 proposal?
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 28, 2020, 02:59:26 PM
Can we assume it'll be like 165 in that they will sign it without upgrading the last 'parkway' interchange(s)? (Is there only one of the Old Style interchanges left on the Cumberland or is it two? Going from memory here.)
There's still one old parkway interchange left west of Edmonton with KY-80/US-68. https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9951397,-85.6515723,14z
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 28, 2020, 05:14:54 PM
Regardless of whether the Cumberland Parkway becomes a 3-digit Interstate, or remains KY 9008, are there any plans to extend the parkway east of US 27? Or were those plans canceled along with the Interstate 66 proposal?
The freeway will at some point be extended to the KY 80/KY 461 intersection. A contract is being let this month to reconstruct that intersection into a grade-separated interchange. For now, the through movement will be 80 east/461 north, or 461 south/80 west. Stubs will be built in the NW quadrant of that interchange to connect to an eventual extension of the Cumberland Parkway.
https://transportation.ky.gov/Construction-Procurement/Proposals/100-PULASKI-20-1305.pdf
Will it utilize much of SR 80 or be built on a new alignment?
^
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/somerset-kentucky.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/cd/5cd7e536-0e90-5a70-831a-fc9698ab4208/5cde354ea7610.image.jpg)
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/somerset-kentucky.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/50/f50a99ed-e0e5-5b2b-ab30-b3a55ba5262b/5be7bb04bc797.image.jpg)
This appears to be the interchange configuration.
The Cumberland Pkwy / I-x65 extension will tie seamlessly into KY-80 east of KY-461, and will be built on new location between KY-461 and US-27.
Any conceptual eastern extension of a freeway-grade facility to I-75 could reasonable be built along the existing alignment, twinning it and constructing overpasses and interchanges where neccasary. The Hal Rogers Pkwy seems to have relatively limited access.
At first, I thought this concept was goofy, but the more I thought about it, I realized it makes sense.
Having the KY 461 south/KY 80 west movement (and conversely, the KY 80 east/KY 461 north movement) be the through route allows the "Ohio Navy" to have better access to the KY 914 Somerset bypass and KY 1247 route to get to Lake Cumberland. And presumably, E-W KY 80 traffic that is just passing by Somerset would use the Cumberland Parkway extension that will eventually tie into this.
Right now, if I'm going west on KY 80 and intending to head west on the Cumberland Parkway, I don't take the suggested route of US 27 north from the big traffic light in Somerset. I continue west on the former parkway alignment (now KY 80) and then use the short leg of KY 914 to tie into the new alignment. When this is completed, unless I have reason to be in Somerset, I'll just go straight through this under-construction intersection onto the new Cumberland Parkway extension (which is locally referred to as the northeastern Somerset bypass.)
Interesting note: check out how many bypasses have been built over the last 20 years along the US 68/KY 80/Cumberland Parkway corridor. From west to east, Hopkinsville, Russellville, Glasgow, Columbia, and Somerset. And the Mayfield bypass is nearing completion.
Oklahoma still has a few of those bowtie interchanges on the turnpike system.
Quote from: bugo on September 30, 2020, 04:21:17 PM
Oklahoma still has a few of those bowtie interchanges on the turnpike system.
I can only think of two of these in KY with no definite plans for reconstruction due to confirmed future interstate upgrades:
* Audubon Parkway Exit 10 at KY 416
* Blue Grass Parkway Exit 34 at KY 55
Quote from: hbelkins on September 30, 2020, 11:15:11 AM
Having the KY 461 south/KY 80 west movement (and conversely, the KY 80 east/KY 461 north movement) be the through route allows the "Ohio Navy" to have better access to the KY 914 Somerset bypass and KY 1247 route to get to Lake Cumberland.
Ohio Navy?
Welcome to the Interstate family!
Quote from: Buck87 on September 30, 2020, 08:41:46 PM
Ohio Navy?
It's a "thing". Years of Ohioans coming down with boats and boathouses and lake homes and vacation rentals on Kentucky's Lake Cumberland... they "invade" with their ''Ohio Navy''...
https://www.facebook.com/officialohionavy/
.
This is not to be confused with the actual Ohio state naval reserve/guard unit, the Ohio Naval Militia. After all, Ohio did see some naval action during the War of 1812, and there were Ohio reservist units from Ohio in later wars...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Naval_Militia
Quote from: wriddle082 on September 30, 2020, 07:19:40 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 30, 2020, 04:21:17 PM
Oklahoma still has a few of those bowtie interchanges on the turnpike system.
I can only think of two of these in KY with no definite plans for reconstruction due to confirmed future interstate upgrades:
* Audubon Parkway Exit 10 at KY 416
* Blue Grass Parkway Exit 34 at KY 55
WK Parkway at US 431/KY 70, BG Parkway at KY 52 (not a bowtie, but a weird folded diamond, and the aforementioned US 68/KY 80 on the Cumberland Parkway. There may be one remaining on the Purchase Parkway near Hopkinsville, but I'm not positive. And there's one on the Purchase between Mayfield and Fulton, but it will be rebuilt as part of I-69.
Already reconstructed: Mountain Parkway at KY 11, BG Parkway at US 127, WK Parkway at KY 259 and also KY 109, Cumberland Parkway at US 127, Pennyrile at KY 56, and one on the Purchase near Benton (I can't remember the intersecting route.)
Quote from: Buck87 on September 30, 2020, 08:41:46 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 30, 2020, 11:15:11 AM
Having the KY 461 south/KY 80 west movement (and conversely, the KY 80 east/KY 461 north movement) be the through route allows the "Ohio Navy" to have better access to the KY 914 Somerset bypass and KY 1247 route to get to Lake Cumberland.
Ohio Navy?
Someone else explained it. All the Ohio residents who travel down I-75 and exit at Mt. Vernon and use KY 461 to get to Lake Cumberland.
What lake is more popular Lake Cumberland or Dale Hollow?
SM-G950U
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2020, 04:27:18 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on September 30, 2020, 07:19:40 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 30, 2020, 04:21:17 PM
Oklahoma still has a few of those bowtie interchanges on the turnpike system.
I can only think of two of these in KY with no definite plans for reconstruction due to confirmed future interstate upgrades:
* Audubon Parkway Exit 10 at KY 416
* Blue Grass Parkway Exit 34 at KY 55
WK Parkway at US 431/KY 70, BG Parkway at KY 52 (not a bowtie, but a weird folded diamond, and the aforementioned US 68/KY 80 on the Cumberland Parkway. There may be one remaining on the Purchase Parkway near Hopkinsville, but I'm not positive. And there's one on the Purchase between Mayfield and Fulton, but it will be rebuilt as part of I-69.
Already reconstructed: Mountain Parkway at KY 11, BG Parkway at US 127, WK Parkway at KY 259 and also KY 109, Cumberland Parkway at US 127, Pennyrile at KY 56, and one on the Purchase near Benton (I can't remember the intersecting route.)
The two that I mentioned are not located on parkways with firm commitments for interstate conversion, so they may stay in their current forms for years to come. The balance of the Pennyrile and Purchase, and part of the WK from Pennyrile to Natcher, will become interstates, and as such will have to “loosen up and take off their bow ties”, so to speak.
And for some reason, I thought BG Parkway Exit 10 had its ramps fixed so it would be a normal folded diamond, or at least has plans for it.
Quote from: Finrod on September 25, 2020, 11:48:28 PM
It doesn't mean it won't become I-66 eventually-- after all, I-495 in North Carolina became I-87, and it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of making I-165 be I-67 didn't come around again at some point in the future.
I-63 would be a better number for it.
Quote from: dvferyance on October 01, 2020, 08:49:08 PM
Quote from: Finrod on September 25, 2020, 11:48:28 PM
It doesn't mean it won't become I-66 eventually-- after all, I-495 in North Carolina became I-87, and it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of making I-165 be I-67 didn't come around again at some point in the future.
I-63 would be a better number for it.
As I've iterated previously -- considering the penchant for Owensboro "boosters", prominently including the mayor's office, to pursue marginal Interstate proposals which invariably involved the US 231 bridge and Indiana cooperation that never really materialized -- I'm surprised those folks didn't jump all over I-63 or any other 2di from Bowling Green to Henderson via the parkways + the US 60 bypass. But the idea of an even 2di in the 40's or 50's continuing from there onto the Cumberland and I-75 is an even more useful approach that actually is grid-appropriate. Would make a nice western egress from Knoxville and vicinity to, say, St. Louis while avoiding Nashville (and Louisville) traffic chokepoints.
AFAIK, this I-66 would not be connected to the one in VA and DC. And I always thought it was a stupid number to begin with, seeing that all of it is south of I-64. Not to mention that it was doomed from the start when other states decided not to get on board with the idea of a cross-country freeway carrying an iconic route number that once belonged to a certain Chicago-Los Angeles highway. No even number between 46 and 62 is currently in use, so if they insisted on a 2di for this corridor, any of those numbers would work.
That being said, I'm in support of an I-x65 in the area.
^
I thought at one point the I-66 plan called for connecting to the original.
As far as location of a potential route, would probably overlap a majority of I-64 and I-79 through West Virginia, then along Corridor H, which is more or less the current route between them (though current routing follows I-75 and I-64 via Lexington, assuming I-66 would be new terrain between I-75 and I-64 somewhere near Huntington)
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 02, 2020, 09:49:46 AM
^
I thought at one point the I-66 plan called for connecting to the original.
As far as location of a potential route, would probably overlap a majority of I-64 and I-79 through West Virginia, then along Corridor H, which is more or less the current route between them (though current routing follows I-75 and I-64 via Lexington, assuming I-66 would be new terrain between I-75 and I-64 somewhere near Huntington)
My understanding is that when it was proposed it would be routed from the Cumberland Parkway to Beckley, WV using the Hal Rodgers Parkway east of I-75, then following KY 80 to US 23 near Prestonsburg, then south on US 23 to US 119, then north on US 119 to US 52/Future I-73/74, then southeast on US 52 et al, and finally northeast along the future Coalfields Expressway. From Beckley, they could overlap it on I-64 to I-81 then I-81 to extant I-66.
If it used Corridor H instead, it could go north from Beckley along US 19 to I-79 to Corridor H.
As I-73/74 is essentially dead in WV, it's unlikely we'll ever see any of this happen.
I always thought constructing the Interstate 66 though Kentucky proposal was always a long shot. As all of you are likely aware, the Interstate 66 proposal was originally to have stretched from Interstates 73/74 in West Virginia all the way westward to California. A better designation for such a highway probably would have been Interstate 50 or 60. Anyway, the portion west of Wichita, Kansas was the first to be axed, and ultimately, the rest of 66 was canceled as well. It was likely too ambitious of a proposal to ever see the light of day.
There are theoretical plans still out there for a new-terrain freeway from Hazard to West Virginia via Pikeville. This would be separate construction from existing KY 80 and US 119.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 02, 2020, 07:32:51 PM
There are theoretical plans still out there for a new-terrain freeway from Hazard to West Virginia via Pikeville. This would be separate construction from existing KY 80 and US 119.
IIRC, the original HPC #3 was to exit the Rogers ROW east of Hazard and head on a highly-specified path (guess someone had property to sell!) that eventually crossed US 23 and paralleled US 119 on a path about a dozen miles south before crossing into WV near Matewan, where it was to join the proposed HPC #5/I-73/74 alignment roughly paralleling US 52 (aka the King Coal expressway). From there the prospects were indeed vague; some speculation had it "piggybacking" on the Coalfields east of Welch to Beckley, heading up US 19 (aka ARC "L") to I-79, multiplexing with that to Weston, then subsuming ARC "H" to the west terminus of extant I-66 in VA. Other speculation simply MPX'd with I-64 and 81 to the same point; others terminated the I-66 number at Matewan and added the outlying HPC #3 segment from Roanoke to Hampton Roads over US 460 as a separate Interstate (62?). But all were at best speculation; AFAIK there were no formal studies nor political requests for any specific alignment once the corridor entered WV. HPC #3, occasionally dubbed the "Transamerica" corridor, since its path from Wichita, KS east to the KY/WV line largely copied that of the late '80's Fresno to D.C. concept, was indeed described with likely deliberate vagueness --
except in KY, where the path was highly specified as to what towns would be served -- the hallmark of a politically-motivated project. Clearly the level of backing for that 1990's-era description fell off over the ensuing decades to a point where the concept was no longer viable as a whole. The only indication that it existed at all has been the presence of "Future I-66" signage on the Cumberland.
i-73 will never exist outside of nc imo.
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 03, 2020, 10:26:00 AM
i-73 will never exist outside of nc imo.
VA is still moving slowly but surely toward completing the Martinsville Southern Connector (I'm not holding my breath, but it's nowhere near dead), so I do expect to see I-73 make it at least up to US 58 once NCDOT upgrades US 220 between NC 68 and the VA state line (which they're waiting for VDOT to finish the MSC before they extend I-73 further north).
SC, though, I'm not getting my hopes up for.
There was quite a political fight in Kentucky over where I-66 would run. There were several news stories about it which were referenced on one of the HPC pages (perhaps even AA Roads' page; I don't remember, as the page was written back in the MTR days). The battle was between a couple of congressmen, Hal Rogers and (I think) Scotty Baesler. The 6th District representative (Lexington) wanted the I-66 designation to run concurrently with I-64 and the Bluegrass Parkway, although it's doubtful that success would have translated into a BG Parkway extension. Rogers wanted upgrades to the Daniel Boone Parkway and a new-terrain route between Hazard, Pikeville, and West Virginia. Rogers eventually won and the Kentucky routing was written into the law.
I would like to see I-50 in place of an I-x65. Allow me to give some reasons I believe this.
1. There isn't a KY 50. US 50 does not enter Kentucky. This can allow Kentucky to possibly apply for an I-50 designation along the Cumberland Parkway.
2. Where else could an I-50 be used? Nowhere else in the grid except maybe if US 58 in Virginia or if the US 158 corridor in North Carolina were ever upgraded to Interstate status, however unlikely.
3. By using I-50, it gives the highway a bit of "status", instead of it being just a spur of I-65.
If I-50 were to become reality, as of now it would be 88 miles long--currently ending at US 27 north of Somerset. However, with the planned extension of the Cumberland Parkway possibly out to the KY 80-KY 461 intersection, I-50 could be designated at least to that point. And if KYTC ever decided to upgrade the KY 80 corridor the rest of the way to I-75 in London, I-50 could be used. This would make I-50 approximately 120 miles.
Now I know that X0 Interstate highways are usually reserved for major east-west freeways. However, as I stated above, where else could an I-50 be designated? Unless there was a major Interstate beginning in someplace like Hayti, MO, using current I-155, the US 51/future I-69 freeway to Fulton or Mayville, KY, then new construction in southern Kentucky and southern Virginia (or northern North Carolina), there is no clear-cut highway to place an I-50 on with the exception of the Cumberland Parkway.
Comments and opinions are most welcome. Thanks in advance.
Quote from: amroad17 on October 28, 2020, 06:35:53 AM
I would like to see I-50 in place of an I-x65. Allow me to give some reasons I believe this.
1. There isn't a KY 50. US 50 does not enter Kentucky. This can allow Kentucky to possibly apply for an I-50 designation along the Cumberland Parkway.
2. Where else could an I-50 be used? Nowhere else in the grid except maybe if US 58 in Virginia or if the US 158 corridor in North Carolina were ever upgraded to Interstate status, however unlikely.
3. By using I-50, it gives the highway a bit of "status", instead of it being just a spur of I-65.
If I-50 were to become reality, as of now it would be 88 miles long--currently ending at US 27 north of Somerset. However, with the planned extension of the Cumberland Parkway possibly out to the KY 80-KY 461 intersection, I-50 could be designated at least to that point. And if KYTC ever decided to upgrade the KY 80 corridor the rest of the way to I-75 in London, I-50 could be used. This would make I-50 approximately 120 miles.
Now I know that X0 Interstate highways are usually reserved for major east-west freeways. However, as I stated above, where else could an I-50 be designated? Unless there was a major Interstate beginning in someplace like Hayti, MO, using current I-155, the US 51/future I-69 freeway to Fulton or Mayville, KY, then new construction in southern Kentucky and southern Virginia (or northern North Carolina), there is no clear-cut highway to place an I-50 on with the exception of the Cumberland Parkway.
Comments and opinions are most welcome. Thanks in advance.
Agreed that the former I-66 corridor would be one of the more logical places to locate a I-50, along with the US 412 corridor from I-35 to I-49 in OK and NWA. But it's not as if the number is chafing at the bit to be located somewhere; that's sort of putting the proverbial cart before the horse. Let's first see if it's politically and fiscally feasible for the Cumberland corridor to extend east to at least I-75 or even farther eastward via an upgraded Rogers parkway (where it would go at its east end would have to be determined as well, otherwise this is simply a fictional endeavor). Personally, if a composite corridor as discussed upthread incorporating the Audubon and Natcher parkways into a continuous corridor with the Cumberland as a continuation, then maybe a I-50 or other available even-numbered designation could be appropriate. But unless it is configured to connect disparate regions (even within one state) the 3di approach currently being contemplated for the Cumberland is more than adequate.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Announced yesterday (https://guthrie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387291&fbclid=IwAR2L39Ll8DvVW04KIJCej0LUUvwJ1s5DB_X8xjA2-Cs2OBpsIYBE2uA_jx0) (link to congressional press release)
More pork by Kentucky.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on October 28, 2020, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Announced yesterday (https://guthrie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387291&fbclid=IwAR2L39Ll8DvVW04KIJCej0LUUvwJ1s5DB_X8xjA2-Cs2OBpsIYBE2uA_jx0) (link to congressional press release)
More pork by Kentucky.
.......mmm.....
pork!
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on October 28, 2020, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Announced yesterday (https://guthrie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387291&fbclid=IwAR2L39Ll8DvVW04KIJCej0LUUvwJ1s5DB_X8xjA2-Cs2OBpsIYBE2uA_jx0) (link to congressional press release)
More pork by Kentucky.
McConnell, Guthrie, Rogers, Comer Introduce Cumberland Parkway LegislationWashington, September 24, 2020
WASHINGTON, D.C. — U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) and Congressman Brett Guthrie (KY-02), along with Congressman Hal Rogers (KY-05) and Congressman James Comer (KY-01), today introduced legislation to begin the process of designating the Louie B. Nunn Cumberland Parkway as a federal spur of Interstate-65.
"Federal spur of Interstate-65". When did CalRog move to Kentucky?
Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 28, 2020, 06:21:25 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on October 28, 2020, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Announced yesterday (https://guthrie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387291&fbclid=IwAR2L39Ll8DvVW04KIJCej0LUUvwJ1s5DB_X8xjA2-Cs2OBpsIYBE2uA_jx0) (link to congressional press release)
More pork by Kentucky.
McConnell, Guthrie, Rogers, Comer Introduce Cumberland Parkway Legislation
Washington, September 24, 2020
WASHINGTON, D.C. — U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) and Congressman Brett Guthrie (KY-02), along with Congressman Hal Rogers (KY-05) and Congressman James Comer (KY-01), today introduced legislation to begin the process of designating the Louie B. Nunn Cumberland Parkway as a federal spur of Interstate-65.
"Federal spur of Interstate-65". When did CalRog move to Kentucky?
Related question: what ever happened to McConnell's previous proposal to designate the WKY from I-69 over to Natcher/I-165 as I-569? Dropped because of lack of interest or simple disbelief that a designation wouldn't extend all the way to I-65? (Still think a I-71 extension is optimal for that facility.)
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on October 28, 2020, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Announced yesterday (https://guthrie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387291&fbclid=IwAR2L39Ll8DvVW04KIJCej0LUUvwJ1s5DB_X8xjA2-Cs2OBpsIYBE2uA_jx0) (link to congressional press release)
More pork by Kentucky.
And? With powerful senators and representatives comes ... more money. As much as I loathe McConnell, losing him would mean the loss of money for our state. All states have "pork" - it's only derogatory if you don't benefit from it :)
Quote from: seicer on October 28, 2020, 08:17:07 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on October 28, 2020, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Announced yesterday (https://guthrie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387291&fbclid=IwAR2L39Ll8DvVW04KIJCej0LUUvwJ1s5DB_X8xjA2-Cs2OBpsIYBE2uA_jx0) (link to congressional press release)
More pork by Kentucky.
And? With powerful senators and representatives comes ... more money. As much as I loathe McConnell, losing him would mean the loss of money for our state. All states have "pork" - it's only derogatory if you don't benefit from it :)
Not really "pork." The improvements are probably going to be done anyway, with or without Interstate signage. The legislation just writes the number into law and takes AASHTO out of the equation.
Quote from: seicer on October 28, 2020, 08:17:07 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on October 28, 2020, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Announced yesterday (https://guthrie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387291&fbclid=IwAR2L39Ll8DvVW04KIJCej0LUUvwJ1s5DB_X8xjA2-Cs2OBpsIYBE2uA_jx0) (link to congressional press release)
More pork by Kentucky.
And? With powerful senators and representatives comes ... more money. As much as I loathe McConnell, losing him would mean the loss of money for our state. All states have "pork" - it's only derogatory if you don't benefit from it :)
Pfft. And I'd bet you complained about Senator Ted Kennedy's propensity for fattening Massachusetts with pork.
Hypocrisy abounds.
Quote from: Rothman on October 29, 2020, 07:53:34 AM
Quote from: seicer on October 28, 2020, 08:17:07 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on October 28, 2020, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Announced yesterday (https://guthrie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=387291&fbclid=IwAR2L39Ll8DvVW04KIJCej0LUUvwJ1s5DB_X8xjA2-Cs2OBpsIYBE2uA_jx0) (link to congressional press release)
More pork by Kentucky.
And? With powerful senators and representatives comes ... more money. As much as I loathe McConnell, losing him would mean the loss of money for our state. All states have "pork" - it's only derogatory if you don't benefit from it :)
Pfft. And I'd bet you complained about Senator Ted Kennedy's propensity for fattening Massachusetts with pork.
Hypocrisy abounds.
No, I never did but thanks for the assumption. I did complain about the massive cost overruns with the Big Dig project - but so did most others. And I still complain about waste in other states - but hey, if your state benefits, it benefits unless it truly has no return on investment.
^
I wouldn't call completing safety upgrades along the Cumberland Parkway - an existing, mostly interstate standard 70 mph freeway - "pork". The only investment is some blue and red shields to replace some older shields. Not a big invest, easy to return on.
On a separate note, I'm curious as to why Kentucky has not installed cable guardrail along most of their parkways given high speeds, narrow medians, and now interstate designations. I believe they exist on the original routes such as I-24.
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 29, 2020, 11:44:19 AM
On a separate note, I'm curious as to why Kentucky has not installed cable guardrail along most of their parkways given high speeds, narrow medians, and now interstate designations. I believe they exist on the original routes such as I-24.
Warrants for crossover crashes probably not met.
KYTC could be proactive about this instead of reactive. However, whether or not to have cable median guardrails depends on available funds and study numbers, apparently. :-/
My I-50 idea would, of course, depend on a high probability that the Cumberland (Louie B. Nunn--did not mention that in my prior post) Parkway would be extended to at least I-75. If there is a slim to no chance, then an I-x65 (365?) will be it--and it looks like it will be that way based on the posts above.
Generally, the median widths on Kentucky's parkways and interstates are wide enough that cross-median crashes are rare. It's prohibitively expensive to install them on all highways because of the expense and rationale. The state of West Virginia, for instance, began installing them in the highest risk locations where accidents were the highest - in the curviest, most trafficked interstate corridors before moving down the list.
^ From driving through West Virginia this summer, I do indeed recall numerous segments along I-64 east of I-77 and along I-79 with median guardrail installation underway.
the only thing that upsets me is that the state has an official policy of removing the parkway name in exchange for an interstate designation.
Quote from: ctkatz on November 07, 2020, 02:35:09 PM
the only thing that upsets me is that the state has an official policy of removing the parkway name in exchange for an interstate designation.
That's likely for inventory purposes, with interstates addressed separately for funding and/or maintenance purposes. However, that doesn't seem terribly pressing since even maintenance isn't covered under Interstate System aegis any more -- it's probably a "one facility/one designation" policy, and since the parkways were parsed out as 9000-series numbers, those likely cross-reference to the parkway name -- and are simply replaced by the Interstate number once that has been designated. Nevertheless, it's likely the original (and later honorific) parkway name(s) have been etched into the public consciousness already regardless of numerical change or internal policy.
Quote from: ctkatz on November 07, 2020, 02:35:09 PM
the only thing that upsets me is that the state has an official policy of removing the parkway name in exchange for an interstate designation.
In the case of the Natcher/I-165, there are now signs along the route marking it as the "William H. Natcher Expressway," so they're not dumping the name, just altering it.
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on November 07, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
Quote from: ctkatz on November 07, 2020, 02:35:09 PM
the only thing that upsets me is that the state has an official policy of removing the parkway name in exchange for an interstate designation.
In the case of the Natcher/I-165, there are now signs along the route marking it as the "William H. Natcher Expressway," so they're not dumping the name, just altering it.
But the actual name of the parkway was originally Green River Parkway. The placing of a politician's name was a more recent development. I'm thinking some time in the early 90s.
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on November 07, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
Quote from: ctkatz on November 07, 2020, 02:35:09 PM
the only thing that upsets me is that the state has an official policy of removing the parkway name in exchange for an interstate designation.
In the case of the Natcher/I-165, there are now signs along the route marking it as the "William H. Natcher Expressway," so they're not dumping the name, just altering it.
Again, likely an inventory adjustment. "Parkway" would specifically correspond to the 9000-series state designations for former toll facilities, while "expressway" takes in everything else in the limited-access category, including the parts of KY 841 that aren't overlaid with I-265, the US 60 Owensboro bypass, et. al. It appears that once the process of conversion from parkway to Interstate has started, including interchange revision and any other activities intended to satisfy Interstate criteria, the term "expressway" replaces that of "parkway" in KY lexicon.
Legislation has been filed in the current session of the legislature to change the name of the road from "Parkway" to "Expressway." I happen to know the sponsor of the bill, and asked him about it. He said this is something that's necessary to get the x65 designation. I asked him why, when none of the other parkways had their names changed, and he said it was something that had been worked out with Kentucky's federal congressional delegation (Presumably Comer, Guthrie, and Rogers, or some combination of the three).
It still doesn't make sense to me, but if that's what they have to do this time, I guess it's necessary.
I'll try to find the bill's text and post a link to it here.
Odd. To me, it's just a designation. The Parkways in Kentucky are unlike the Parkways in New York and are generally interstate compatible with a few exceptions.
Quote from: seicer on January 14, 2021, 04:56:04 PM
Odd. To me, it's just a designation. The Parkways in Kentucky are unlike the Parkways in New York and are generally interstate compatible with a few exceptions.
The Kentucky parkways have always seemed, at least by my own impression, to be "kissing cousins" of the OK turnpikes -- including several design and configuration features ("bowtie" combination interchanges/toll facilities, relatively narrow medians). I would guess that Interstate compatibility would, in both states, be tied to, as KY has been doing on their I-69 and future I-165/169 sections, replacing the "bowties" with higher-speed interchanges and possibly adding/widening the shoulders to I-standard (often with K-rails in the median). I'll guess that the approach to upgrading of the Cumberland would be functionally identical to the others underway or previously completed.
As an aside, I still like the notion of a Henderson-to-London composite 2di facility rather than three separate 3di's -- although that
would in itself create expectations that the corridor would be completed/upgraded in a timely fashion -- something DOT's have difficulty accomplishing these days for the "usual suspect" reasons previously explored in depth in this forum.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 14, 2021, 04:05:30 PM
none of the other parkways had their names changed
Do the original parkway names still officially exist on the now-Interstate sections? As far as I know, all the former parkway signage was completely replaced with signage for the Interstates, leaving no trace of the original name visible on the road itself. Does KYTC still use the parkway names internally as the names of the roads?
Quote from: Roadsguy on January 14, 2021, 08:56:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 14, 2021, 04:05:30 PM
none of the other parkways had their names changed
Do the original parkway names still officially exist on the now-Interstate sections? As far as I know, all the former parkway signage was completely replaced with signage for the Interstates, leaving no trace of the original name visible on the road itself. Does KYTC still use the parkway names internally as the names of the roads?
AFAIK when I-165 was signed, the parkway was renamed to the William H Natcher Expressway. I assume that on the other parkways the now I-69 portions haven't been renamed because the remainder of the original parkway still exists. The Pennyrile and Ford Parkways still have segments that haven't become interstate, but will in the future. It will be interesting to see what happens then.
The original name of I-165/Natcher Parkway was "The Green River Parkway". I don't think it was named for Congressman Natcher until sometime in the 90's.
Quote from: I-55 on January 14, 2021, 10:28:01 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on January 14, 2021, 08:56:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 14, 2021, 04:05:30 PM
none of the other parkways had their names changed
Do the original parkway names still officially exist on the now-Interstate sections? As far as I know, all the former parkway signage was completely replaced with signage for the Interstates, leaving no trace of the original name visible on the road itself. Does KYTC still use the parkway names internally as the names of the roads?
AFAIK when I-165 was signed, the parkway was renamed to the William H Natcher Expressway. I assume that on the other parkways the now I-69 portions haven't been renamed because the remainder of the original parkway still exists. The Pennyrile and Ford Parkways still have segments that haven't become interstate, but will in the future. It will be interesting to see what happens then.
I believe the portions designated I-69 had their names removed. Only the segments not apart of the I-69 system retain their original parkway names.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 15, 2021, 07:57:17 AM
Quote from: I-55 on January 14, 2021, 10:28:01 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on January 14, 2021, 08:56:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 14, 2021, 04:05:30 PM
none of the other parkways had their names changed
Do the original parkway names still officially exist on the now-Interstate sections? As far as I know, all the former parkway signage was completely replaced with signage for the Interstates, leaving no trace of the original name visible on the road itself. Does KYTC still use the parkway names internally as the names of the roads?
AFAIK when I-165 was signed, the parkway was renamed to the William H Natcher Expressway. I assume that on the other parkways the now I-69 portions haven't been renamed because the remainder of the original parkway still exists. The Pennyrile and Ford Parkways still have segments that haven't become interstate, but will in the future. It will be interesting to see what happens then.
I believe the portions designated I-69 had their names removed. Only the segments not apart of the I-69 system retain their original parkway names.
Which I think makes no sense. There are plenty of other interstate routes that overlaid pre-existing highways, where the original name was kept alongside the interstate designation. Look at most of the tolled interstates for example: the Mass Pike, New York State Thruway, Kansas Turnpike, etc. And there are toll-free interstates that still keep their highway "name," like the I-94/Dan Ryan Expressway through Chicago.
When they were first built, that was the only designation. You didn't hop on an interstate; you got on the Green River Parkway, the Mountain Parkway, the Daniel Boone Parkway. For the most part, these parkway designations have been supplemented with route numbers or outright removed. There are some exceptions: KY Route 67 is more or less called the Industrial Parkway by locals and the media, as is the AA Highway. No one calls that KY Route 9 or 10, partly because of the numbering confusion early on in that highway's years.
Quote from: Roadsguy on January 14, 2021, 08:56:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 14, 2021, 04:05:30 PM
none of the other parkways had their names changed
Do the original parkway names still officially exist on the now-Interstate sections? As far as I know, all the former parkway signage was completely replaced with signage for the Interstates, leaving no trace of the original name visible on the road itself. Does KYTC still use the parkway names internally as the names of the roads?
Not for the portions taken over by I-69.
https://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/State%20Primary%20Road%20System%20Lists/Hopkins.pdf
I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.
Quote from: sparker on January 14, 2021, 08:04:29 PM
The Kentucky parkways have always seemed, at least by my own impression, to be "kissing cousins" of the OK turnpikes
And if there were ever two states who know something about kissing cousins...
Hi-oh!
:-D
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2021, 12:27:20 PM
Quote from: sparker on January 14, 2021, 08:04:29 PM
The Kentucky parkways have always seemed, at least by my own impression, to be "kissing cousins" of the OK turnpikes
And if there were ever two states who know something about kissing cousins...
Hi-oh!
:-D
Hey now -- I've got family there (OK), and there's absolutely no record of cousin-with-cousin marriage or any less formalized version thereof. Actually,
that would be considered one of the more minor
faux pas compared with some stuff that's gone down over the years (don't ask me to elaborate; I won't!). :-/
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 16, 2021, 03:00:40 PM
I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.
I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.
Quote from: ctkatz on February 28, 2021, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 16, 2021, 03:00:40 PM
I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.
I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.
The quick answer: business interest. I'm not a Kentuckian, so if I were not a road geek when I hear parkway, I'm thinking like many areas of the country. A blvd or surface arterial style route. Outside of the NYC area, most parkways I think about around the country are 45 mph or lower tree-lined arterials passing thru parkland or a wooded area. The GW Parkway in DC, a few in Ohio, Illinois, Michigan and Wisconsin, etc. The BW Parkway in Maryland is also an exception, but business interest needed those outside the state to identify that the WK, Pennyrile and others are interstate quality routes, not some tree-line surface road through the forest.
Quote from: ctkatz on February 28, 2021, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 16, 2021, 03:00:40 PM
I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.
I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.
Well, before any of them were considered for Interstate inclusion and upgrades, most of them had already been renamed for various state political figures. So the original names, while still remaining in the popular vernacular, had been officially superseded in any case.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 16, 2021, 03:00:40 PM
I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.
Quote from: ctkatz on February 28, 2021, 10:48:36 PM
I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.
Except perhaps the old Daniel Boone Parkway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that renaming it after Hal Rogers has stuck with the locals.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 02, 2021, 10:09:31 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 16, 2021, 03:00:40 PM
I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.
Quote from: ctkatz on February 28, 2021, 10:48:36 PM
I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.
Except perhaps the old Daniel Boone Parkway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that renaming it after Hal Rogers has stuck with the locals.
Hell, IIRC Rogers is still alive and kicking and representing that part of KY! That name isn't going anywhere soon; it has a more immediate impact and importance with the locals.
Quote from: sparker on March 02, 2021, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 02, 2021, 10:09:31 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 16, 2021, 03:00:40 PM
I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.
Quote from: ctkatz on February 28, 2021, 10:48:36 PM
I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.
Except perhaps the old Daniel Boone Parkway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that renaming it after Hal Rogers has stuck with the locals.
Hell, IIRC Rogers is still alive and kicking and representing that part of KY! That name isn't going anywhere soon; it has a more immediate impact and importance with the locals.
Actually, from what I gather around here, sentiment still runs high that the road should have kept its Daniel Boone name. I have even slipped up and called it the Daniel Boone Parkway when doing TV interviews.
Locals generally call it either the Parkway or "the highway." You'll hear something like "take the highway to London" or "take the highway to Hazard." I remember being down in the Manchester/Hazard area frequently not long after the name change took place and people were insistent on calling it the Daniel Boone Parkway. It's a love/hate relationship with Hal Rogers it seems yet he gets reelected easily.
Quote from: seicer on March 03, 2021, 08:57:47 AM
Locals generally call it either the Parkway or "the highway." You'll hear something like "take the highway to London" or "take the highway to Hazard." I remember being down in the Manchester/Hazard area frequently not long after the name change took place and people were insistent on calling it the Daniel Boone Parkway. It's a love/hate relationship with Hal Rogers it seems yet he gets reelected easily.
Heh. And US 23/460 is the "four-lane" and 80 coming west from it is STILL "New 80."
I think my relatives in Floyd County still call the parkway the Daniel Boone Parkway. And, frankly, although he was a terrible guy, I have trouble with the name change myself.
Heck, my family was standing right in Fort Boonesborough when I started talking about bad things Boone did. My cousin-in-law said, "Don't you come down here and start talking that way about our heroes." She paused and then said with a smile, "But, yeah, I heard that, too."
Oh, and it's the Mountain Parkway. No nicknames for that. Funny thing is that my relatives up the hollers in Wheelwright or outside Prestonsburg (Abbott Creek) consider some areas along the Mountain Parkway the real land of scary hillbillies that'll shoot you if you come to their door and the like.
Quote from: Rothman on March 03, 2021, 11:42:13 AM
Oh, and it's the Mountain Parkway. No nicknames for that.
Around here, it's "the parkway" and some even call it "the toll road" even though the tolls have been off for 35 years.
QuoteFunny thing is that my relatives up the hollers in Wheelwright or outside Prestonsburg (Abbott Creek) consider some areas along the Mountain Parkway the real land of scary hillbillies that'll shoot you if you come to their door and the like.
Magoffin County is a world unto itself.
The new infrastructure bill includes that the Cumberland will become a spur of I-65.
Page 445
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/01/politics/read-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-text/index.html
Quote from: CardInLex on August 05, 2021, 08:06:03 PM
The new infrastructure bill includes that the Cumberland will become a spur of I-65.
Page 445
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/01/politics/read-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-text/index.html
And if you read a bit further, you'll find it even has a designated number:
I-365. That's not particularly ambitious; it ends at the existing US 27 junction near Somerset rather than continuing east to I-75 (and beyond) as the previous I-66 proposal specified. At this point it appears that neither KDOT nor the state's congressional delegation have an appetite for new construction beyond what it will entail to bring the former parkway up to Interstate standards.
You are correct about it being I-365.
I was hoping the MLC BG Pkwy would become I-565 in this bill too. But fingers crossed for later.
Quote from: sparker on August 06, 2021, 04:42:52 AM
Quote from: CardInLex on August 05, 2021, 08:06:03 PM
The new infrastructure bill includes that the Cumberland will become a spur of I-65.
Page 445
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/01/politics/read-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-text/index.html
And if you read a bit further, you'll find it even has a designated number: I-365. That's not particularly ambitious; it ends at the existing US 27 junction near Somerset rather than continuing east to I-75 (and beyond) as the previous I-66 proposal specified. At this point it appears that neither KDOT nor the state's congressional delegation have an appetite for new construction beyond what it will entail to bring the former parkway up to Interstate standards.
There's a construction project underway to turn the KY 80/KY 461 intersection east of Somerset into a grade-separated interchange. The through movement, for now, will be 461 south to 80 west, and 80 east to 461 north. The interchange is being built to serve as the future eastern end of the Cumberland Parkway, which is to be expanded from US 27 to that location. When that extension is complete, 80 west/Cumberland west and 80 east-Cumberland east will also be a through movement. But until it's built, through traffic on 80 will have to use a loop ramp westbound and what amounts to a slip ramp eastbound.
The interchange project got funded through one of those named competitive grant efforts (INFRA or BUILD or whatever that particular one was called).
Are there plans / maps out there now that show the location of the Parkway extension from Somerset?
That's interesting about the through movements. Does that mean that a future extension east along KY 80 is dead? Or that in the future both KY 461 and KY 80 could be four-laned? And what about I-66?
Quote from: hbelkins on August 06, 2021, 05:37:21 PM
The interchange project got funded through one of those named competitive grant efforts (INFRA or BUILD or whatever that particular one was called).
According to local media I've pulled up, part of the funding is a $25M BUILD grant.
Quote from: seicer on August 07, 2021, 10:04:29 AM
That's interesting about the through movements. Does that mean that a future extension east along KY 80 is dead? Or that in the future both KY 461 and KY 80 could be four-laned? And what about I-66?
In case you weren't aware, the project includes about 3 miles of 4-laning along 461 as well as an interchange on 461 at Valley Oak Dr/Pin Oak Dr.
I had forgotten. I did find that KYTC has a map of the active projects which shows the alignment of the extension, along with plans for the four-laning: https://maps.kytc.ky.gov/activehighwayplan/?xmin=-9432928.711601421&xmax=-9384009.013498973&ymin=4447888.271183945&ymax=4470475.413042184
I wish KYTC would have websites for big projects like this and the US 127 realignment around Wolf Creek Dam.
I'm from Indiana and INDOT always makes good pages about projects.
SM-G950U
Quote from: froggie on August 07, 2021, 10:16:46 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 06, 2021, 05:37:21 PM
The interchange project got funded through one of those named competitive grant efforts (INFRA or BUILD or whatever that particular one was called).
According to local media I've pulled up, part of the funding is a $25M BUILD grant.
Quote from: seicer on August 07, 2021, 10:04:29 AM
That's interesting about the through movements. Does that mean that a future extension east along KY 80 is dead? Or that in the future both KY 461 and KY 80 could be four-laned? And what about I-66?
In case you weren't aware, the project includes about 3 miles of 4-laning along 461 as well as an interchange on 461 at Valley Oak Dr/Pin Oak Dr.
There's been an industrial area along 461 north of 80 for decades. 461 was originally improved to just beyond those factories and I drove the old route a few times before the current alignment to I-75 finally got built.
(https://i.ibb.co/0tn4mBx/20221015-101836.jpg) (https://ibb.co/py1VbWS)
Snapped a picture this weekend on the Cumberland Parkway of one of several of these Future I-65 Spur signs. Also saw some guardrail installation.
Quote from: CardInLex on August 06, 2021, 03:38:02 PM
You are correct about it being I-365.
I was hoping the MLC BG Pkwy would become I-565 in this bill too. But fingers crossed for later.
I would make it I-765. The WK Parkway is slated to become I-569. I-565 sounds too similar.
Quote from: dvferyance on October 22, 2022, 06:48:28 PM
Quote from: CardInLex on August 06, 2021, 03:38:02 PM
You are correct about it being I-365.
I was hoping the MLC BG Pkwy would become I-565 in this bill too. But fingers crossed for later.
I would make it I-765. The WK Parkway is slated to become I-569. I-565 sounds too similar.
That doesn't stop I-264 and I-265 both existing in Kentucky.
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on October 22, 2022, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on October 22, 2022, 06:48:28 PM
Quote from: CardInLex on August 06, 2021, 03:38:02 PM
You are correct about it being I-365.
I was hoping the MLC BG Pkwy would become I-565 in this bill too. But fingers crossed for later.
I would make it I-765. The WK Parkway is slated to become I-569. I-565 sounds too similar.
That doesn't stop I-264 and I-265 both existing in Kentucky.
But at least 4 and 5 have different vowel sounds, whereas 5 and 9 are both long i's.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 03, 2021, 06:55:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 03, 2021, 11:42:13 AM
Oh, and it's the Mountain Parkway. No nicknames for that.
Around here, it's "the parkway" and some even call it "the toll road" even though the tolls have been off for 35 years.
QuoteFunny thing is that my relatives up the hollers in Wheelwright or outside Prestonsburg (Abbott Creek) consider some areas along the Mountain Parkway the real land of scary hillbillies that'll shoot you if you come to their door and the like.
Magoffin County is a world unto itself.
So no one calls it the Combs Parkway?
Quote from: XamotCGC on October 24, 2022, 09:42:20 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 03, 2021, 06:55:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 03, 2021, 11:42:13 AM
Oh, and it's the Mountain Parkway. No nicknames for that.
Around here, it's "the parkway" and some even call it "the toll road" even though the tolls have been off for 35 years.
QuoteFunny thing is that my relatives up the hollers in Wheelwright or outside Prestonsburg (Abbott Creek) consider some areas along the Mountain Parkway the real land of scary hillbillies that'll shoot you if you come to their door and the like.
Magoffin County is a world unto itself.
So no one calls it the Combs Parkway?
No.
Practically everyone around here call it the Mountain Parkway - and that's how it's written in local papers and media outlets, so the name just stuck around. No one also refers to the Wendell H. Ford Western Kentucky Parkway as that - it's usually referred to as just the Western Kentucky Parkway, although this may be slowly changing with the I-69 designation on parts of it. The AA Highway is referred to almost exclusively as just that even though it can both be KY 9 and KY 10 (or both!) depending on what segment you are on. The Industrial Parkway is KY 67 although it is also not often referred to as that.
The original parkways all have secret designations in the 9000-range, too.
Quote from: seicer on October 25, 2022, 09:39:05 AM
Practically everyone around here call it the Mountain Parkway - and that's how it's written in local papers and media outlets, so the name just stuck around. No one also refers to the Wendell H. Ford Western Kentucky Parkway as that - it's usually referred to as just the Western Kentucky Parkway, although this may be slowly changing with the I-69 designation on parts of it. The AA Highway is referred to almost exclusively as just that even though it can both be KY 9 and KY 10 (or both!) depending on what segment you are on. The Industrial Parkway is KY 67 although it is also not often referred to as that.
The original parkways all have secret designations in the 9000-range, too.
I do wonder whether people still call it the Daniel Boone Parkway...
And then 23 through Eastern KY is "the Four Lane," and 80 coming westward out of Allen will seemingly always be "New 80." :D
My buddy lives in Manchester and they refer to it as "the parkway." I don't think the Daniel Boone Parkway name really caught on - plus it was the only improved road out there, so the name didn't have competition with other roads.
Quote from: seicer on October 25, 2022, 12:16:33 PM
My buddy lives in Manchester and they refer to it as "the parkway." I don't think the Daniel Boone Parkway name really caught on - plus it was the only improved road out there, so the name didn't have competition with other roads.
I doubt Hal Rogers has. My relatives called it the Daniel Boone. Just dawned on me that I don't know if they still do.
I have to make a conscious effort to refer to it as "Bert T. Combs Mountain Parkway" on first reference in press releases, and even then I don't always use the late governor's name. No one uses the full name; in fact, most just call it "the parkway."
As for the Hal Rogers, I have slipped up and called it "Daniel Boone" in interviews, but it doesn't help that I have a never-installed Daniel Boone Parkway sign in my office.
I still to refer to the Bluegrass Parkway as the BG Parkway because of the old signage. The signage that came after with the name change is very dull.
Quote from: seicer on August 07, 2021, 10:04:29 AM
Are there plans / maps out there now that show the location of the Parkway extension from Somerset?
That's interesting about the through movements. Does that mean that a future extension east along KY 80 is dead? Or that in the future both KY 461 and KY 80 could be four-laned? And what about I-66?
wasn't 39 supposed to have an interchange with the bypass or was that scrapped when the planned allignment changed?
Personally, I always preferred named highways to be named after locations first and then well known (and I mean Nationally known) dead politicians.
And keeping the original name unless there is a local conflict with another road nearby.
To this day, I still use the Northwest Tollway, East-West Tollway and North-South Tollway names for 88, 90 and 355.
In Kentucky, the Natcher will always be the Green River.
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 18, 2023, 11:58:58 AM
Personally, I always preferred named highways to be named after locations first and then well known (and I mean Nationally known) dead politicians.
And keeping the original name unless there is a local conflict with another road nearby.
To this day, I still use the Northwest Tollway, East-West Tollway and North-South Tollway names for 88, 90 and 355.
In Kentucky, the Natcher will always be the Green River.
People around Owensboro picked up on the Natcher name pretty quickly, and the Green River went back to being just a river. And the same for its "new" name, I-165. You'll still hear folks call it "the Natcher" from time to time, but "165" is catching on.