Speed Limits That Are Too High

[michravera]

I think having less tolerance for speeding (and, by extension, driving closer to the limit) the higher it is, is completely backwards.

Driving 45 in a 25 mph zone is very significant.
Driving 100 in an 80 mph zone is not that significant.

It should be done on a proportional basis, whether it's 10, or 15, or 20%. Using 10% as an example:
25 mph: tolerance of 2-3 mph over
45 mph: tolerance of 4-5 mph over
65 mph: tolerance of 6-7 mph over
85 mph: tolerance of 8-9 mph over

Right now, most of you are describing a bell curve: Stick close to the limits when they're low (25) or high (75+), but in the middle of that range, anything goes. Doesn't that mean that the speed limits in that middle range need to be increased, so we can at least be consistent?

What do people get pulled over for going on the 80-85 roads out west?

My experience in Texas and Arizona (and California and Nevada) is that very little speed enforcement is done on properly posted roads. There's just no point in it. Reasonable people behave reasonably. What happens in California, for instance between Utica Ave and Twisselmann Rd  on I-5, where the limit is posted at the state maximum and there are no exits for over 30 km, is that CHP grabs the drivers for 100+ and don't really bother the 85/70 cars and the 70/55 trucks.
In California 100+ is a REAL ticket. You can lose your license and pay over $1000 in fines and taxes. 85/70, if you plead guilty on the second appearance when the cop shows up, gets you a fine of around $50. Now, the amount on the ticket will read a lot higher than that, but that's not the real fine, if you take it to court.
I never saw anyone pulled over for speeding on a freeway my entire time in Texas.
In Nevada, NHP often run speed enforcement on NB I-15 between Primm and Vegas (Posted 70MPH), but people blow by and aren't usually bothered. Once again, it seems that they target the 100+ drivers.

[bemybear]

WV and KY have a bunch of narrow, 2-lane curvy and hilly roads that are signed at 55 MPH - too high.  It's darn near impossible to get to 55 MPH even if one wants too on some of those roads.

Anyway, there are literally dozens of these, but the most memorable to me are:

(1) US-250 (WV) from Fairmount to Hundred.
(2) WV-7 from Hundred to New Martinsville.
(3) WV-82 from Birch River to Cowen.
(4) US-460 (KY) from Paris to Mount Sterling.

I expected this thread to have lots of people suggesting that a speed limit is too high or low for a road but didn't expect to see different ideas of what a speed limit is for. I grew up in Oregon and lived in CA/TN/IL/AK/NJ/NY and have been to every state but HI.  And it's my belief and general experience that a speed limit defines (or should define) the fastest the DOT thinks it would be sensible to go on the least demanding stretches of the road bearing that limit.  So a boring ass straight road with few driveways and at least a modest shoulder is probably posted too low at 55.  But unless it's tail of the dragon curvy for EVERY single mile, even a very curvy road littered with a million advisory speeds would probably be posted as speed Limit 55.  As others have mentioned, Massachusetts is one state that changes speed limits sometimes 3 or 4 times in a mile seemingly for the benefit of law enforcement.  but in most of the US, thankfully, there are thousands of miles of roads with many curves that are posted at speeds no normal person in a normal car could  or should maintain.  That's the point of advisory signs.

The best showpiece for what I think is the wisdom and beauty of this approach is US-101 from Mendocino County to the OR border.  Good stretches of it are 4 lanes and posted for 65.  Almost none of it is flat, much of it is curvy and hilly at the same time and even some of THAT is 65 MPH and a lot of vehicles would be challenged to maintain 65 safely but the road is wide enough, lightly traveled enough and with sufficient visibility (on a clear day) that having a little more than normal speed differential seems acceptable between the people having fun in their sprightly cars and the very common motorhomes and some semi-trucks that also use that road.  The worst example of the opposite is MA-2 which, while lovely, has so many rapidly changing speed limits coming into and out of each corner as to be somewhere between laughable and insulting.

[debragga]

I think having less tolerance for speeding (and, by extension, driving closer to the limit) the higher it is, is completely backwards.

Driving 45 in a 25 mph zone is very significant.
Driving 100 in an 80 mph zone is not that significant.

It should be done on a proportional basis, whether it's 10, or 15, or 20%. Using 10% as an example:
25 mph: tolerance of 2-3 mph over
45 mph: tolerance of 4-5 mph over
65 mph: tolerance of 6-7 mph over
85 mph: tolerance of 8-9 mph over

Right now, most of you are describing a bell curve: Stick close to the limits when they're low (25) or high (75+), but in the middle of that range, anything goes. Doesn't that mean that the speed limits in that middle range need to be increased, so we can at least be consistent?

What do people get pulled over for going on the 80-85 roads out west?

My experience in Texas and Arizona (and California and Nevada) is that very little speed enforcement is done on properly posted roads. There's just no point in it. Reasonable people behave reasonably. What happens in California, for instance between Utica Ave and Twisselmann Rd  on I-5, where the limit is posted at the state maximum and there are no exits for over 30 km, is that CHP grabs the drivers for 100+ and don't really bother the 85/70 cars and the 70/55 trucks.
In California 100+ is a REAL ticket. You can lose your license and pay over $1000 in fines and taxes. 85/70, if you plead guilty on the second appearance when the cop shows up, gets you a fine of around $50. Now, the amount on the ticket will read a lot higher than that, but that's not the real fine, if you take it to court.
I never saw anyone pulled over for speeding on a freeway my entire time in Texas.
In Nevada, NHP often run speed enforcement on NB I-15 between Primm and Vegas (Posted 70MPH), but people blow by and aren't usually bothered. Once again, it seems that they target the 100+ drivers.

I'm a pretty frequent traveler of I-20 between Terrell TX and Monroe LA, with a good bit of experience between Fort Worth and Dallas as well. In Texas the only place you need to be wary is Waskom (right next to the state line), and patrolling between there and DFW is VERY rare. In Louisiana, on the other hand, you could easily see 10-15 cop cars (mostly state troopers and some sheriff's deputies) in the ~100 miles between Bossier City and Monroe.

[Roadgeekteen]

I was on NY 43 recently, and most of it was 55 even though the curves and turns made it physically impossible to go 55 most of the time.

[webny99]

I was on NY 43 recently, and most of it was 55 even though the curves and turns made it physically impossible to go 55 most of the time.

NY defaults to the state limit of 55 mph on most rural state routes unless there's a reason to post a lower limit.

[Roadgeekteen]

I was on NY 43 recently, and most of it was 55 even though the curves and turns made it physically impossible to go 55 most of the time.

NY defaults to the state limit of 55 mph on most rural state routes unless there's a reason to post a lower limit.

I know, I do think in that case, a limit of 45 would be warranted.

[Rothman]

I was on NY 43 recently, and most of it was 55 even though the curves and turns made it physically impossible to go 55 most of the time.

You lack confidence in your vehicle.  I've done 55 on that stretch right off I-90.

[Roadgeekteen]

I was on NY 43 recently, and most of it was 55 even though the curves and turns made it physically impossible to go 55 most of the time.

You lack confidence in your vehicle.  I've done 55 on that stretch right off I-90.

I wasn't on that section, I was on the part east of Glass Lake (I also wasn't driving).

[Rothman]

I was on NY 43 recently, and most of it was 55 even though the curves and turns made it physically impossible to go 55 most of the time.

You lack confidence in your vehicle.  I've done 55 on that stretch right off I-90.

I wasn't on that section, I was on the part east of Glass Lake (I also wasn't driving).

If you weren't driving, how do you know that it was impossible?

[Roadgeekteen]

I was on NY 43 recently, and most of it was 55 even though the curves and turns made it physically impossible to go 55 most of the time.

You lack confidence in your vehicle.  I've done 55 on that stretch right off I-90.

I wasn't on that section, I was on the part east of Glass Lake (I also wasn't driving).

If you weren't driving, how do you know that it was impossible?

My dad was barely hitting 45 in many parts. And he's not a slow driver.

[LilianaUwU]

The default speed limit for gravel roads in Québec is 70 km/h, which is often too fast considering how many of those roads are riddled with potholes.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

I was on NY 43 recently, and most of it was 55 even though the curves and turns made it physically impossible to go 55 most of the time.

You lack confidence in your vehicle.  I've done 55 on that stretch right off I-90.

If you are in a modern passenger car, on a dry road with decent tires, your speed around curves is really only limited by your sight distance. If you know how to handle your vehicle properly you can take curves much, much faster than most drivers, even the more lead-footed ones who habitually slam on the brakes through curves.

[Bruce]

SR 99 in Everett, WA has a section that is marked for 50 mph despite tons of driveways, unsignalized cross streets, and blind corners. I've seen some serious close calls with pedestrians crossing with the signal but drivers coming in too fast. It could probably use a road diet too, given how it doesn't need to be 7 lanes across.

[sparker]

Around this area, Santa Clara (city) has the most consistent & predictable speed limits.  Neighborhood streets are the usual 25 mph; 2-lane arterials south of the Caltrain tracks are generally posted at 30; it goes up to 35 for 4 lanes, except for the main E-W streets (El Camino Real/CA 82, Homestead, and Stevens Creek), which are posted at 40 with some 35 sections near the shopping malls.  North of the tracks is the "classic Silicon Valley"-type industrial/office complex area; 2 lanes posted at 35 and 4 lanes at 40.  The only roads posted at 45 or more are the expressways -- San Tomas/Montague (posted county G4; the name changes at US 101) at 45, Central/G6 and Lawrence/G2 expressways at 50.*  Generally an allowance of 5-10 mph is tolerated on the arterials south of the tracks, where there's primarily housing with businesses along those arterials, and 10-15 in the industrial areas (I've been told they tighten that up during commute times, though); that 10-15 seems to hold true for the expressways (again, during non-peak times).  But during peak times one would be hard-pressed to average half to 2/3 of the limit at any given time in the direction of the commute.  But the 800-pound gorilla of the area cities, San Jose, is all over the map (literally & figuratively) in terms of setting limits and terms of enforcement.   Seeing as there's only about 1K cops for a city a trace over 1M -- and those are more often than not busy with non-traffic issues -- the chances are that speeders won't face any consequences unless they're just in the wrong place at the wrong time.   Some of the newer industrial areas in San Jose have 50-55 limits on arterials; even when development -- and more driveways and crossing streets -- expands, which should be cause to reassess speed limits, San Jose doesn't appear to be in any hurry to do so unless complaints occur.  Of course, the older downtown region has been the locale of many a "road diet", including the usual 5-10 drop of speed limits -- that's the planners' "test bed" for cracking down on car traffic -- but they leave the industrial and outlying areas alone in that regard.  Suffice it to say that speeding in San Jose is a crapshoot -- but the "house" is hampered by chronic understaffing!

*Interestingly, there's more uninterrupted free movement on the lower-speed San Tomas than on the other two, which feature quite a few driveways and other potential problematic issues. 

[jakeroot]

SR 99 in Everett, WA has a section that is marked for 50 mph despite tons of driveways, unsignalized cross streets, and blind corners. I've seen some serious close calls with pedestrians crossing with the signal but drivers coming in too fast. It could probably use a road diet too, given how it doesn't need to be 7 lanes across.

Reminds me of WA 181 in Kent which is also three lanes each direction with a limit of 50.

I'm not sure I can envision a road diet for Hwy 99 in Everett. The outer lanes are already bus-only, and less than two lanes each direction is inadequate in terms of providing an alternative to I-5, an important purpose that few if any other roads in the area provide.

[Scott5114]

I never saw anyone pulled over for speeding on a freeway my entire time in Texas.

I was pulled over for the first time, and got my very first ticket, on I-40 in Wheeler County, Texas. Was doing something like 72 and got dinged for being over the night speed limit 65, despite the fact that it was still light out (I guess enough of the sun was under the horizon, or it was enough after the arbitrary time listed in the official almanac, for it to count as "night").

[sprjus4]

The fact you would even be pulled for 72 / 65 is sad to begin with.

[webny99]

The fact you would even be pulled for 72 / 65 is sad to begin with.

I agree. Anything less than 10 over is absurd.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

The fact you would even be pulled for 72 / 65 is sad to begin with.

I agree. Anything less than 10 over is absurd.

A lot of authorities outside the East who are less stupid with speed limits consider stricter enforcement as a trade-off for your ability to drive faster legally. Is it fair? Probably not. Scott was probably a victim of out-of-state profiling as well.

[Roadgeekteen]

The fact you would even be pulled for 72 / 65 is sad to begin with.

I agree. Anything less than 10 over is absurd.

In most cases, but 94 in 85 or 89 in 80 could be grounds to get pulled over, I would say 5 over if the speed limit is at least 80.

[Ketchup99]

But that's not always ideal. If I'm going, say, 85 or 86 on I-10 in the middle of Texas, I'm really no danger to anyone.

[interstatefan990]

For this thread, let's please not forget ADVISORY speed limits on roads with REGULATORY limits that are supposedly "too high". In my opinion, you can post a very high speed on a two lane road as long as you provide enough advance warning to slow down when it curves, to a safe speed or whatever speed is on the advisory sign. Just cause you can't go the speed limit for the entire length of a road doesn't necessarily make it "too high".

Add this and this to the list of 2-lane roads where 70 mph would be appropriate.

If I'm not mistaken, I don't think there's anything legally precluding NYSDOT from posting 65 on those roads.

[achilles765]

I think having less tolerance for speeding (and, by extension, driving closer to the limit) the higher it is, is completely backwards.

Driving 45 in a 25 mph zone is very significant.
Driving 100 in an 80 mph zone is not that significant.

It should be done on a proportional basis, whether it's 10, or 15, or 20%. Using 10% as an example:
25 mph: tolerance of 2-3 mph over
45 mph: tolerance of 4-5 mph over
65 mph: tolerance of 6-7 mph over
85 mph: tolerance of 8-9 mph over

Right now, most of you are describing a bell curve: Stick close to the limits when they're low (25) or high (75+), but in the middle of that range, anything goes. Doesn't that mean that the speed limits in that middle range need to be increased, so we can at least be consistent?

What do people get pulled over for going on the 80-85 roads out west?

My experience in Texas and Arizona (and California and Nevada) is that very little speed enforcement is done on properly posted roads. There's just no point in it. Reasonable people behave reasonably. What happens in California, for instance between Utica Ave and Twisselmann Rd  on I-5, where the limit is posted at the state maximum and there are no exits for over 30 km, is that CHP grabs the drivers for 100+ and don't really bother the 85/70 cars and the 70/55 trucks.
In California 100+ is a REAL ticket. You can lose your license and pay over $1000 in fines and taxes. 85/70, if you plead guilty on the second appearance when the cop shows up, gets you a fine of around $50. Now, the amount on the ticket will read a lot higher than that, but that's not the real fine, if you take it to court.
I never saw anyone pulled over for speeding on a freeway my entire time in Texas.
In Nevada, NHP often run speed enforcement on NB I-15 between Primm and Vegas (Posted 70MPH), but people blow by and aren't usually bothered. Once again, it seems that they target the 100+ drivers.

I'm a pretty frequent traveler of I-20 between Terrell TX and Monroe LA, with a good bit of experience between Fort Worth and Dallas as well. In Texas the only place you need to be wary is Waskom (right next to the state line), and patrolling between there and DFW is VERY rare. In Louisiana, on the other hand, you could easily see 10-15 cop cars (mostly state troopers and some sheriff's deputies) in the ~100 miles between Bossier City and Monroe.

I've always been a traveler of more of southeast Texas and down here I hardly ever see many people pulled over between Houston and San Antonio. Between Houston and Louisiana, the only place where one has to be careful is in chambers county which is just east of Houston. The speed limit there is always 5-10 mph lower than the counties on either side. Jefferson county is 75 and eastern harris county is 70, turning to 65 once inside Beltway 8. I think that is specifically so cops in chambers county can get people. I almost never see anyone stopped in Jefferson or orange counties but cross into Louisiana and there are state troopers and parish cops everywhere. All the way to Baton Rouge, then hardly any on IH 10 but tons of them on IH 12.
I think I've seen maybe three people pulled over on Ih 45 in all the years I've driven it.

[sprjus4]

Not sure if any of Harris County is posted above 65 mph.

The stretch in Chambers is an artificial joke. The lowered the speed limit from 75 mph to 65 mph for "safety reasons"  a few years back, despite it being a long, flat, straight, wide open highway for miles, with traffic moving often in excess of 80 mph. Sounds like an intentional speed trap."  with that alone combined with increased police presence.

The speed limits in the Houston and outer Houston area represent more of what eastern states are like, and not traditional, higher, Texas limits, largely due to environmental regulations imposed decades ago that have not been reversed with limits corrected. Then instances like I-10 where they were recently decreased for no good reason.

[Avalanchez71]

Tennessee has a habit of posting 55 MPH signs on rural roads just prior to a curve on the side of a hill/mountain.  I nearly got into a wreck one late night on an unfamiliar to me at the time state road.  As soon as the road left town the 55 MPH speed limit signs pop up.  Guess what right afterward a steep snake curve pops up along with all the hairs on my back.  No way to do 55 on that one.