MassPike AET discussion

[kalvado]

Friday is the big day. MassDOT has been doing a huge PR blast, with all news agencies in or near Massachusetts providing information on the change. I'll probably check out the work at Stockbridge and Lee at some point next week and report back.

More like big night.
http://www.westernmassnews.com/story/33464828/states-all-electronic-tolling-to-launch-friday

Manual toll collection and E-ZPass transactions at the toll plazas will end at 9:45 p.m. Friday.
The state's new all-electronic tolling system will then go live at 10 p.m. Friday.

[vdeane]

So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

[kalvado]

So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

If it was up to me, I would rather give out free travel than double-charge anyone; for PR reasons if nothing else.
I would charge anyone EXITING before 9.45 a both rate, and bill any gantry passing starting 10.00. Someone going from Boston airport to NY and exiting highway at 9.50 would be the winner.. But how much would Masspike loose in grand scheme of things, especially late Friday night? Probably enough to pay for two steel rods in one gantry...

[spooky]

I would expect that someone who enters before 9:45 but exits after would not be charged under the old system, since there would be no end point. They would be tolled under the new system if they remain on the highway and pass under a gantry after 10 PM.

[cl94]

So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

If it was up to me, I would rather give out free travel than double-charge anyone; for PR reasons if nothing else.
I would charge anyone EXITING before 9.45 a both rate, and bill any gantry passing starting 10.00. Someone going from Boston airport to NY and exiting highway at 9.50 would be the winner.. But how much would Masspike loose in grand scheme of things, especially late Friday night? Probably enough to pay for two steel rods in one gantry...

Weston to Stockbridge. There are 2 barrier tolls east of Weston.

I would expect that someone who enters before 9:45 but exits after would not be charged under the old system, since there would be no end point. They would be tolled under the new system if they remain on the highway and pass under a gantry after 10 PM.

I expect this is the case. They're shutting down the old system at 9:45 and it is only recorded on your account after you exit.

[kefkafloyd]

Real bummed that I'm going to be out of town on the 28th, I would have driven down to snag a final ticket for a souvenir before go-live.

Looking at the other presentations for the redesigned ramps, the proposed redesign for the Sumner tunnel provides just one through travel lane for 1A traffic with a new controlled intersection for the East Boston streets. The new intersection seems much more equitable to East Boston traffic than the current free-for-all at the tollbooth.

[Alps]

So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

If it was up to me, I would rather give out free travel than double-charge anyone; for PR reasons if nothing else.
I would charge anyone EXITING before 9.45 a both rate, and bill any gantry passing starting 10.00. Someone going from Boston airport to NY and exiting highway at 9.50 would be the winner.. But how much would Masspike loose in grand scheme of things, especially late Friday night? Probably enough to pay for two steel rods in one gantry...

Weston to Stockbridge. There are 2 barrier tolls east of Weston.

I would expect that someone who enters before 9:45 but exits after would not be charged under the old system, since there would be no end point. They would be tolled under the new system if they remain on the highway and pass under a gantry after 10 PM.

I expect this is the case. They're shutting down the old system at 9:45 and it is only recorded on your account after you exit.

For that matter, the new gantries are technically live now - they have to be "burned in" with live traffic for calibration. So they probably actually turn on the gantries somewhat earlier than 10 PM, but only capture tolling data via exit points after 9:45.

[cl94]

So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

If it was up to me, I would rather give out free travel than double-charge anyone; for PR reasons if nothing else.
I would charge anyone EXITING before 9.45 a both rate, and bill any gantry passing starting 10.00. Someone going from Boston airport to NY and exiting highway at 9.50 would be the winner.. But how much would Masspike loose in grand scheme of things, especially late Friday night? Probably enough to pay for two steel rods in one gantry...

Weston to Stockbridge. There are 2 barrier tolls east of Weston.

I would expect that someone who enters before 9:45 but exits after would not be charged under the old system, since there would be no end point. They would be tolled under the new system if they remain on the highway and pass under a gantry after 10 PM.

I expect this is the case. They're shutting down the old system at 9:45 and it is only recorded on your account after you exit.

For that matter, the new gantries are technically live now - they have to be "burned in" with live traffic for calibration. So they probably actually turn on the gantries somewhat earlier than 10 PM, but only capture tolling data via exit points after 9:45.

The gantries have been live since at least August for calibration.

[PurdueBill]

So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

If it was up to me, I would rather give out free travel than double-charge anyone; for PR reasons if nothing else.
I would charge anyone EXITING before 9.45 a both rate, and bill any gantry passing starting 10.00. Someone going from Boston airport to NY and exiting highway at 9.50 would be the winner.. But how much would Masspike loose in grand scheme of things, especially late Friday night? Probably enough to pay for two steel rods in one gantry...

15 minutes of free travel won't kill them; they have been liberal in the past with waiving tolls when there is extreme traffic (especially at Sturbridge on holiday weekends) and waiving tolls on 9/11 due to the sudden stoppage of air and rail travel out of Boston and most of the region.  The only ones who get off totally free will be the few who got on before the old system shuts down and exit by 9:59 without passing under a new system reader.  Otherwise people will pay something, even if it is less than full price.

I am surprised that the only email I have gotten as a Mass E-ZPass accountholder (going all the way back to BankBoston FastLane) about the cutover was just today (Tuesday) about the cutover--maybe something went to junk or clutter, but I didn't see anything in there.  (I always get the statement emails, etc.)  Maybe they figure any further in advance would be forgotten and also in reality, few people will change any travel plans due to the cutover.

[roadman]

I am surprised that the only email I have gotten as a Mass E-ZPass accountholder (going all the way back to BankBoston FastLane) about the cutover was just today (Tuesday) about the cutover--maybe something went to junk or clutter, but I didn't see anything in there.  (I always get the statement emails, etc.)  Maybe they figure any further in advance would be forgotten and also in reality, few people will change any travel plans due to the cutover.

I'm a Massachusetts account holder (switched from NH when my transponder quit working), and I haven't received any e-mails about the changeover as of this morning (10/26).

Update - Got my notification e-mail this morning (10/28).  Nothing like waiting to the last minute to send it out

[bob7374]

MassDOT has posted an animated video about the process of demolishing the toll plaza at the Auburn interchange:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/uncategorized/video-toll-plaza-demolition-reconstruction-shown-step-by-step/

[vdeane]

The only ones who get off totally free will be the few who got on before the old system shuts down and exit by 9:59 without passing under a new system reader.

Don't need to exit by 9:59.  Just pass under the last gantry; the time difference could theoretically be a large amount.  For example, you get on from NY and are heading east; you pass under the Blandford gantry at 9:59 and then stop in the service area for 15 minutes and exit at Westfield at 10:30.  That trip would be free.

More fun scenario: enter at I-95.  Travel west and reach the Blandford service area.  Sit in service area for a while, ensuring that you exit the Pike after 9:45 but do not pass under either the Blandford or Lee gantries after 10:00.  How many will do this?  Don't know, but I bet it's at least one!

[kalvado]

The only ones who get off totally free will be the few who got on before the old system shuts down and exit by 9:59 without passing under a new system reader.

Don't need to exit by 9:59.  Just pass under the last gantry; the time difference could theoretically be a large amount.  For example, you get on from NY and are heading east; you pass under the Blandford gantry at 9:59 and then stop in the service area for 15 minutes and exit at Westfield at 10:30.  That trip would be free.

More fun scenario: enter at I-95.  Travel west and reach the Blandford service area.  Sit in service area for a while, ensuring that you exit the Pike after 9:45 but do not pass under either the Blandford or Lee gantries after 10:00.  How many will do this?  Don't know, but I bet it's at least one!

I may join as well..

[Pete from Boston]

Some observations from the field:

Lots of barrels and heavy barriers stacked up on the sides of the road at the toll plazas. 

Saw a truck with removed Mass Pike entrance signs, which have been replaced with new ones warning motorists of the toll system.  The toll information on the new signs is tarped over.  I am happy to see the goofy single-word "MASSPIKE" on those signs go.

Tarp blew off one sign west of Auburn, sign read:

   Electronic toll

   No transponder
   No problem

   We will bill you.

[roadman]

Tarp blew off one sign west of Auburn, sign read

   Electronic Toll Ahead

   No transponder?
   No problem.

   We will bill you.

FIFY

[Pete from Boston]

Tarp blew off one sign west of Auburn, sign read

   Electronic Toll Ahead

   No transponder?
   No problem.

   We will bill you.

FIFY

Thanks.  The tarp was still over a corner of the sign.

[Mr. Matté]

Tarp blew off one sign west of Auburn, sign read

   Electronic Toll Ahead

   No transponder?
   No problem.

   We will bill you.

FIFY

[Pete from Boston]

Pro tip:  Enter where there is a "Tickets or E-ZPass" lane, then exit normally for no additional charge for your souvenir ticket.

Otherwise, just take the ticket and try to leave as close to the middle of the turnpike as possible because you will be charged the maximum toll for the exit.

[bob7374]

Tarp blew off one sign west of Auburn, sign read

   Electronic Toll Ahead

   No transponder?
   No problem.

   We will bill you.

FIFY

MassDOT will be offering a 'grace period' for drivers without an E-ZPass:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-announces-grace-period-as-electronic-tolling-is-activated/

[roadman]

MassDOT will be offering a 'grace period' for drivers without an E-ZPass:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-announces-grace-period-as-electronic-tolling-is-activated/

You are correct to put 'grace period' in quotes - because it's NOT a grace period.  It's actually a credit of the pay-by-plate fee if a person gets a transponder within the six month period after AET is activated.  Wonder how many people won't even bother with that and just pay the extra fee?

[Pete from Boston]

I was surprised to read recently that after a lot of downward adjustment, the savings from this will only be $5 million a year.  While I still support this project, that seems like a real screwup. 

Something else I thought about yesterday while getting a last look is that I hope there is pricing information posted at the gantries.  One thing that has happened with electronic tolling is that people get a lot less info on what they are paying than was the case before. If this were the private sector, I would expect this would not be tolerated. 

[kalvado]

I was surprised to read recently that after a lot of downward adjustment, the savings from this will only be $5 million a year.  While I still support this project, that seems like a real screwup. 

Something else I thought about yesterday while getting a last look is that I hope there is pricing information posted at the gantries.  One thing that has happened with electronic tolling is that people get a lot less info on what they are paying than was the case before. If this were the private sector, I would expect this would not be tolerated.

My feeling is that not knowing travel cost is actually a desired element of all this. I don't think EZpass displays the charge at the booth as well (maybe it is not yet calculated at that point, but still)

[roadman]

I was surprised to read recently that after a lot of downward adjustment, the savings from this will only be $5 million a year.  While I still support this project, that seems like a real screwup. 

Something else I thought about yesterday while getting a last look is that I hope there is pricing information posted at the gantries.

Signs indicating the 2 axle toll rates (MA E-Z Pass, Other E-Z Pass, Pay By Plate) will be posted in the vicinity of each gantry.

One thing that has happened with electronic tolling is that people get a lot less info on what they are paying than was the case before. If this were the private sector, I would expect this would not be tolerated.

Really?  Supermarkets and convenience stores no longer put price tags on individual items - Massachusetts was the last state to drop that requirement, because the lobby representing the supermarkets and convenience stores asked for it.

[Pete from Boston]

I was surprised to read recently that after a lot of downward adjustment, the savings from this will only be $5 million a year.  While I still support this project, that seems like a real screwup. 

Something else I thought about yesterday while getting a last look is that I hope there is pricing information posted at the gantries.  One thing that has happened with electronic tolling is that people get a lot less info on what they are paying than was the case before. If this were the private sector, I would expect this would not be tolerated. 

Signs indicating the 2 axle toll rates (MA E-Z Pass, Other E-Z Pass, Pay By Plate) will be posted in the vicinity of each gantry.

I'm glad to hear that.

[kalvado]

One thing that has happened with electronic tolling is that people get a lot less info on what they are paying than was the case before. If this were the private sector, I would expect this would not be tolerated.

Really?  Supermarkets and convenience stores no longer put price tags on individual items - Massachusetts was the last state to drop that requirement, because the lobby representing the supermarkets and convenience stores asked for it.

Well, I can see putting a sticker on each package as an issue, but 99% chance that there is a pricing sticker on the shelf nearby, you only need to look around. Usually price of individual item is also displayed as it gets scanned at the register. And you get a check with individual prices printed - right after you check out.

That is highly unlike EZpass experience, where you need to login into account to get any information.