I apologize if there is a similar thread, due to the abundance of moved threads with "MOVED" in the title it is not exactly easy to search for one.
In the past two years, I have moved a
lot. Just to list the moves:
- 06/2021: Indian Trail, NC to unincorporated Watauga County, NC, for college
- 09/2021: unincorporated Watauga to Boone, NC proper, living arrangement did not work out due to developing health issues
- 05/2022: Boone, NC to Indian Trail, NC, originally planned on renting a unit and staying in Boone, but decided to transfer schools due to personal reasons, necessitating staying at my mother's for the summer
- 08/2022: Indian Trail to Johnson City, TN to start my second year of college
- 11/2022: Johnson City to Elizabethton, TN to move in together with my partner, who I did not plan on living with when I signed a residence hall agreement at my current school. Life circumstances for the both of us ended up making this necessary
And come August of this year, I will be returning to Boone in an apartment. I am returning for several reasons. It turns out, as I got further into my major, I discovered I am going to need to learn how to code if I actually want to become successful with my major, but coding isn't even included in the program of study as far as I know. I am horrible at coding based on the dozen or so attempts I made as a younger teen, and don't want to learn to code. I hate coding. I'm changing my major to community planning which is a topic I enjoy and one I know won't require me to learn to code to be successful with. The catch is that it is not offered at my current school, so I'm going to have to switch back to my old one.
My partner also cannot drive and having to drive him around all the time, essentially managing the separate transportation needs of two adults, has proven to be a distraction from my education and from my own work. If I was back in Boone, he could just take the bus to get everywhere he needs to go like work, for free.
I am also considered an independent student now, and my parents are not paying for my education as of the moment, making cost a much greater consideration. I could, if I applied for it, try to claim in-state tuition in Tennessee, but I don't feel like it and it's not guaranteed. In North Carolina, my in-state status is still active, and I am projected to receive a Pell grant that will cover about 5/6ths of my tuition in Boone. There's also just more to do there, and I find myself coming back a lot of the time to connect with friends up there and to kill time.
...and that is why I will have moved six times in the span of three years.
At one point, I had moved more times than the years I had been married. Including a move from MA to MD, I believe it was five times over three years, but a lot of those times were just moving from apartment to apartment in the DC area (I refuse to say DMV, since that's a stupid initialism).
During 2013 I made four moves in short succession:
- I left my last apartment in Phoenix during January to take a new job in Florida.
- I briefly moved in with my Mom in Spring Hill, Florida and set up my mail to be forwarded.
- My job was in Key West but I was training in Jacksonville, so I moved into a paid hotel for a month. I set up my mail to be forwarded to a local Post Office.
- While working in Jacksonville in April I was briefly sent to Key West during April to find a lease. I found said lease on Cudjoe Key and officially moved in the third week of April.
I used to move from apartments every year during the 2002-2006 era before I bought my house. The landlords in Phoenix were big on 10-15% increases, you definitely could keep your rent lower if you were okay with moving. I didn't have a lot of stuff and a truck, so move it was.
Quote from: Rothman on January 30, 2023, 06:54:26 AM
(I refuse to say DMV, since that's a stupid initialism).
Except when it's for Department of Motor Vehicles. :D
1994-96.
Moved from one apartment to another in Irvine, Ky. in late winter-early spring 1994.
Moved from the apartment in Irvine back home with my dad in Beattyville, Ky., when changing jobs in spring 1995.
Moved from Beattyville to Winchester, Ky. when I got married in September 1995.
Moved from a duplex in Winchester to a home in spring 1996.
Not counting in or out of the dorms during college here:
1997: Moved from Salt Lake City after two months, to greater Las Vegas for three weeks, then to my parents' house in Newark, DE.
1998: Moved from Newark after nineteen months to Raleigh, NC.
1999: Moved from Raleigh to Apex, NC after five and a half months.
2000: Moved back to Raleigh after nineteen months in Apex.
2002: Moved back to Newark in April after another nineteen months in Raleigh; moved to greater New Castle, DE in December where I stayed for three and a half years.
I've only moved twice in my life officially according to the DMV:
2000: After I got married when I moved into my inlaws house.
2001: We bought our own house and we moved there.
Going to college I had several different dorms for 2.5 years and an apartment for a year, but never officially changed my address.
Growing up, my mailing address changed 3 times due to adjustments by the post office, even though we never moved.
Not me, but my best friend at the time moved twice in one month. Moved into an apartment with his fiancee. Three weeks later she dumped him (which was a good thing, actually) and he moved again. Each time it was from a 3d-floor apartment to another 3d-floor apartment. In July, in Maryland, with a sofa bed. Not enough pizza and beer in the world for me to help with that again!
The good news is that the woman he started dating after he got dumped has now been his wife for 40+ years.
I don't recall the exact number, but my daughter lived in many different places in the 5.5 years* of her college career and the year or two following. Something like 13 places.
* - includes undergrad, some grad and several internships.
Quote from: Rothman on January 30, 2023, 06:54:26 AM
At one point, I had moved more times than the years I had been married. Including a move from MA to MD, I believe it was five times over three years, but a lot of those times were just moving from apartment to apartment in the DC area (I refuse to say DMV, since that's a stupid initialism).
Heh. Of course, when I was a Mormon missionary, I moved about ten times over two-and-a-half years.
I've only had 3 places in 50 years.
Quote from: Rothman on January 30, 2023, 05:59:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 30, 2023, 06:54:26 AM
At one point, I had moved more times than the years I had been married. Including a move from MA to MD, I believe it was five times over three years, but a lot of those times were just moving from apartment to apartment in the DC area (I refuse to say DMV, since that's a stupid initialism).
Heh. Of course, when I was a Mormon missionary, I moved about ten times over two-and-a-half years.
Ten times in two years for me, one of them just for thirteen days because I was going home mid-transfer.
Moved five times between May 2003 and May 2007.
Moved three times between May 2016 and November 2017.
I believe New York (the state) doesn't even let you move from house to house more than once per year, although I'm not sure of the specifics. It's to prevent speculators from driving up housing prices.
Quote from: 1 on January 31, 2023, 10:26:19 AM
I believe New York (the state) doesn't even let you move from house to house more than once per year, although I'm not sure of the specifics. It's to prevent speculators from driving up housing prices.
Well, I live here in NY and haven't heard of this restriction or how such a restriction would be implemented. Maybe through restricting address changes at the DMV?
Quote from: Rothman on January 31, 2023, 10:40:54 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 31, 2023, 10:26:19 AM
I believe New York (the state) doesn't even let you move from house to house more than once per year, although I'm not sure of the specifics. It's to prevent speculators from driving up housing prices.
Well, I live here in NY and haven't heard of this restriction or how such a restriction would be implemented. Maybe through restricting address changes at the DMV?
Seriously, I don't know how a government could keep someone from moving. Life happens (job changes, transfers, marriages, divorces, natural disasters, etc.) And at least in Kentucky, if you change physical addresses but don't update certain documents such as driver's licenses or vehicle registration within a certain period of time, you're in violation of the law. Plus, if you move but don't change your voter registration, it can lead to you not being able to vote.
Quote from: 1 on January 31, 2023, 10:26:19 AM
I believe New York (the state) doesn't even let you move from house to house more than once per year, although I'm not sure of the specifics. It's to prevent speculators from driving up housing prices.
A quick Google search doesn't show anything pertaining to this in the first 20 or so results.
And there's a huge difference between buying and selling multiple houses in a year, and moving several times in a year.
Quote from: 1 on January 31, 2023, 10:26:19 AM
I believe New York (the state) doesn't even let you move from house to house more than once per year, although I'm not sure of the specifics. It's to prevent speculators from driving up housing prices.
Quote from: Rothman on January 31, 2023, 10:40:54 AM
Well, I live here in NY and haven't heard of this restriction or how such a restriction would be implemented. Maybe through restricting address changes at the DMV?
Quote from: hbelkins on January 31, 2023, 04:04:25 PM
Seriously, I don't know how a government could keep someone from moving. Life happens (job changes, transfers, marriages, divorces, natural disasters, etc.) And at least in Kentucky, if you change physical addresses but don't update certain documents such as driver's licenses or vehicle registration within a certain period of time, you're in violation of the law. Plus, if you move but don't change your voter registration, it can lead to you not being able to vote.
I might be wrong about this, but I believe that the law mentioned by
number 1 relates to the application of New York State income taxes to transient residents. (There are plenty of folks that work in New York for a while and defer their paychecks until they move out). NYS is also aggressive about taxing folks that work in New York State but live elsewhere (same true for New York City income taxes). Since I technically worked for the State (back in the days when the MTA and its Program Management Oversight unit was considered a branch of the State Legislature), we were constantly under scrutiny for adherence to these tax rules. Anywhoosit, I recall that if you moved to New York State for a short period you would still be subject to state income tax for a longer minimum period. I was having to file tax returns in New York, New Jersey and Virginia at the same time for a number of years. Fortunately, both New Jersey and Virginia had reciprocal agreements that allowed all of New York income tax to be either deducted or pro-rated down in the other states.
As hard as this is to believe, Ashland, Kentucky had a similar non-resident income tax rule back in 1970s that is still in place today (1.5% of your income derived in the city).
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 31, 2023, 07:04:03 PMAs hard as this is to believe, Ashland, Kentucky had a similar non-resident income tax rule back in 1970s that is still in place today (1.5% of your income derived in the city).
I lived in Highland Heights and worked in Cold Spring. Cold Spring had a very steep tax like this.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 31, 2023, 07:04:03 PM
non-resident income tax rule
This is common (maybe universal) in the Michigan cities that have income tax.
Detroit lost a ton of tax money due to WFH. They could only tax you if you actually were in the city working.
Sounds like some of the references above are to payroll or occupational taxes.
My county of residence does not levy a payroll tax. Both the city and county where my office is located do levy such taxes.
During the time I worked from home due to the-virus-that-shall-not-be-named-under-threat-of-thread-lock, I was more or less exempted from paying those taxes. The state has forms you fill out to designate the amount of time you work in certain jurisdictions. Since I was going to the office only when needed, or once every couple of weeks otherwise to pick up mail and do things on the work computer network I couldn't do at home, I put that I was working in my home county 95 percent of the time and in the office 5 percent of the time. This amounted to a de facto 3 percent increase in my take-home pay for that period, plus fuel savings.
In Kentucky, these flat-rate taxes are levied on anyone who works within a certain jurisdiction regardless of residence. The money is automatically deducted from your check by your employer and remitted to the taxing agency. There is no difference made for residents and non-residents of the taxing jurisdiction, to my knowledge.
In my adult lifetime, I moved ONCE from Sacramento, CA to north Dallas, TX. I went from being a renter helping my mother keep the home that we had since 1977 to selling the house, moving to Texas, and I became the homeowner with my mother being a "renter" and helping with the expenses. I had a strong desire to get out of California, and I have absolutely no desire to move again as I am in a better place.
I moved four times between December 2019 and June 2020, all in the Baltimore area.
Quote from: ZLoth on February 01, 2023, 02:49:06 PMI had a strong desire to get out of California, and I have absolutely no desire to move again as I am in a better place.
Is that so.
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 01, 2023, 04:25:16 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 01, 2023, 02:49:06 PMI had a strong desire to get out of California, and I have absolutely no desire to move again as I am in a better place.
Is that so.
Q: How do you know if someone is Texan?
A: Don't worry, they'll tell you within the first 2 minutes of meeting them.
Q: How many Texans does it take to change a light bulb?
A: They don't change the bulbs because the power's out anyhow.
A "better place" is a subjective measure. Not having access to outdoor recreation is an immediate non-starter for me, perhaps not for others.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 01, 2023, 02:30:33 PM
Sounds like some of the references above are to payroll or occupational taxes.
My county of residence does not levy a payroll tax. Both the city and county where my office is located do levy such taxes.
During the time I worked from home due to the-virus-that-shall-not-be-named-under-threat-of-thread-lock, I was more or less exempted from paying those taxes. The state has forms you fill out to designate the amount of time you work in certain jurisdictions. Since I was going to the office only when needed, or once every couple of weeks otherwise to pick up mail and do things on the work computer network I couldn't do at home, I put that I was working in my home county 95 percent of the time and in the office 5 percent of the time. This amounted to a de facto 3 percent increase in my take-home pay for that period, plus fuel savings.
In Kentucky, these flat-rate taxes are levied on anyone who works within a certain jurisdiction regardless of residence. The money is automatically deducted from your check by your employer and remitted to the taxing agency. There is no difference made for residents and non-residents of the taxing jurisdiction, to my knowledge.
And therein lies the difference. I'm pretty sure that back in the 1970s, the city of Ashland still required employees to fill out an annual form to pay the occupational tax. If those jurisdictions now have those funds automatically taken from your paycheck, the situation I was referring to is already covered. But in both New York City and New York State, you fill out an annual income tax form which gives you the opportunity to pay whatever you calculate (as lawful). And it is hard for the local jurisdiction to prove that you did something unlawful unless you specific legislate against the activity of relocating (or working) outside of the jurisdiction (when you employer was in the jurisdiction) as a means of avoiding the additional income tax.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 01, 2023, 09:19:20 PMQ: How many Texans does it take to change a light bulb?
A: They don't change the bulbs because the power's out anyhow.
My power has been extremely steady, thank you very much. Of course, being on the same circuit as a medical center and a fire station helps as well.
And, no, I don't change my light bulbs. I replaced them all with energy efficient LEDs bulbs when I moved in, and only had to replace 2-3 in the past four years.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 01, 2023, 09:42:02 PMA "better place" is a subjective measure. Not having access to outdoor recreation is an immediate non-starter for me, perhaps not for others.
Yes, very subjective. But it feels like this:
(https://nooncpas.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/leaving-ca-366-225.jpg)
I like being able to be able to afford a home that is within walking distance (15 minutes) from my workplace, thus I'm filling up my car once a month at $40.46 instead of weekly or bi-weekly at $55.16. I like the better entertainment opportunities in the Dallas area (30 minute drive or public transit one way) or Fort Worth (60 minute drive one way) instead of having to drive to the SF Bay Area (2 hours one way) to attend a show. Outdoor activities? How about:
- Dallas Zoo (https://www.dallaszoo.com/)
- Dallas Arboretum (https://www.dallasarboretum.org/)
- Trinity River Audobon Center (https://trinityriver.audubon.org/)
- Fort Worth Zoo (https://www.fortworthzoo.org/)
- Fort Worth Water Gardens (https://www.fortworth.com/things-to-do/attractions/fort-worth-water-gardens/) - Especially if you saw the film Logan's Run
- Fort Worth Botanic Gardens (https://fwbg.org/)
- Fort Wortth Nature Center (https://www.fwnaturecenter.org/)
And that was derived from the Dallas Wanderer (https://www.dallaswanderer.com/outdoor-things-to-do-in-dallas/). If you want outdoor parks, you are better off going east of Dallas.
Also, travel? DFW is the headquarters of both American Airlines and Southwest Airlines, which means more non-stop travel destinations compared to Sacramento. I was looking forward to travel in 2020 and both my mother and I got Global Entry cards, but then "THAT" happened. And, since I now live on the eastern side of 80-20 line (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwJABxjcvUc) plus in the mid-point of the country, that opens up more road trip possibilities.
I will admit that the weather is more interesting and isn't as great here in Dallas as it was in California, especially this week. And I do miss the Sierra Nevada mountains. Having said that, I ended up in North Dallas because I was job relocated here, and I figured that the job opportuntiies here in DFW are much better than in Sacramento, CA. I got here at the "right time" before home prices shot up, although it also means that I'm "rate-locked" and cannot move.
I'm not going to state that DFW is the best place for everyone. If's up to each individual person to figure out what is important to them, and decide based upon that.
The other day I drove 25 minutes from my house to climb a trail which gains 995 feet in 1.2 miles. If I was so inclined I can hit three National Park boundaries in under 100 minutes. Sorry, those ain't happening in Dallas-Fort Worth.
Worth noting, the Florida move I described upthread was my three year test run living as an adult back east. Money and career wise, things were good. The big problem for me was that I overwhelmingly bored. Coming off of somewhere like Arizona which has so much stuff outdoors that I like to do made Florida a huge let down. Once a viable transfer back west opened up (which wasn't in a big urban area) I took it.
Big cities definitely don't do it for me anymore either. I've been chasing smaller and smaller cities as I've gotten older. Adult life has been quite the contrast after living places like Chicago while in high school.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 01, 2023, 11:58:54 PMThe other day I drove 25 minutes from my house to climb a trail which gains 995 feet in 1.2 miles. If I was so inclined I can hit three National Park boundaries in under 100 minutes. Sorry, those ain't happening in Dallas-Fort Worth.
The highest point in North Texas is Palo Pinto at 1,520 feet. And, no national parks near Dallas (https://morethanjustparks.com/national-parks-near-dallas/).... you are in for a several hour drive.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 01, 2023, 11:58:54 PMWorth noting, the Florida move I described upthread was my three year test run living as an adult back east. Money and career wise, things were good. The big problem for me was that I overwhelmingly bored. Coming off of somewhere like Arizona which has so much stuff outdoors that I like to do made Florida a huge let down. Once a viable transfer back west opened up (which wasn't in a big urban area) I took it.
You made a decision on factors that were important to you and made you happy. What's wrong with that?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 01, 2023, 11:58:54 PMBig cities definitely don't do it for me anymore either. I've been chasing smaller and smaller cities as I've gotten older. Adult life has been quite the contrast after living places like Chicago while in high school.
Again, personal preference. I spent a portion of my early childhood in rural Wayne county in upstate New York outside Rochester. The winters could be brutal because of the lake-effect snow from Lake Ontario, plus getting groceries meant a drive to Clyde. After several winters, we moved to California. For that reason, Chicago is on my list of places NOT to move to. While I see some of the appeal of living in a rural area, I prefer the opportunities and conveniences of an urban area... plus the Internet connectivity is better.
Urban/suburban life seemingly has become more and more inconvenient as time has gone on. I often ponder if that's more a change in my own mindset than it is with the actual world around me changing? Things like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AM
Urban/suburban life seemingly has become more and more inconvenient as time has gone on. I often ponder if that’s more a change in my own mindset than it is with the actual world around me changing? Things like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
I feel this a lot. I don't live in a rural area, but it's extremely nice living in a smaller metro area when it comes to things like traffic. Every time I go to see my parents in Charlotte, I almost always get stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic or end up waiting 30 minutes in line to pick up a prescription, which is essentially non-existent in the Tri-Cities. I don't know how I dealt with that as part of daily life but I'm not going back to it. I enjoy cheap housing, too. Large cities just aren't for me.
My long-term plan for my professional future is to try and find work in the mountains. I accept that it isn't always possible, but even if I have to go somewhere else, I want to avoid sprawling metropolises. And I *definitely* would avoid places like Texas and Florida. I can also easily walk five minutes to grab something to eat in my area of Elizabethton and I'd like to be able to keep doing that. The gridiron layout is superior in every way, even when it's less dense, than traditional suburbs.
Quote from: index on February 02, 2023, 09:22:29 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AM
Urban/suburban life seemingly has become more and more inconvenient as time has gone on. I often ponder if that's more a change in my own mindset than it is with the actual world around me changing? Things like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
I feel this a lot. I don't live in a rural area, but it's extremely nice living in a smaller metro area when it comes to things like traffic. Every time I go to see my parents in Charlotte, I almost always get stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic or end up waiting 30 minutes in line to pick up a prescription, which is essentially non-existent in the Tri-Cities. I don't know how I dealt with that as part of daily life but I'm not going back to it. I enjoy cheap housing, too. Large cities just aren't for me.
My long-term plan for my professional future is to try and find work in the mountains. I accept that it isn't always possible, but even if I have to go somewhere else, I want to avoid sprawling metropolises. And I *definitely* would avoid places like Texas and Florida. I can also easily walk five minutes to grab something to eat in my area of Elizabethton and I'd like to be able to keep doing that. The gridiron layout is superior in every way, even when it's less dense, than traditional suburbs.
Put this way, I moved the Phoenix Metro area when it at three million residents. At the time everything was great and Phoenix was really an enjoyable place to live. It was easy to get around to places and pretty much nowhere was swapped with crowds of people. Having brand new freeways facilitated getting around very quickly.
When the Phoenix area topped four million people. a lot of big city problems started to happen and they weren't something I could see not getting more pronounced as time went on. The most dramatic effect was the spiking home problems near all centers of business. Essentially to find somewhere affordable to life one had to live further and further out into the suburbs. That of course lead to more cars on major freeways and more competition wherever I went. Fortunately I was in position to move and seek another other opportunity out in Florida.
Right now I live in Fresno. Fresno for the moment has the right balance of infrastructure, home priced and being spread out enough that I don't encounter things like traffic or large crowds of people. Problem is that people in California are figuring out that Fresno (and other Central Valley cities) have a lot of tangibly good qualities and keep moving here. At some point our quiet niche will likely be enveloped by the masses. Fortunately if this happens it will likely line up with the final run down to retirement or close to when the mortgage is paid off.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMThings like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
The bleeping Sunrise Bridge in Fair Oaks, CA (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sunrise+Bridge/@38.6357183,-121.2643344,14.25z/data=!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x809ad8571a60897b:0x9e9dfe26ef7e4c5e!2sFair+Oaks,+CA!3b1!8m2!3d38.6446264!4d-121.2721718!16zL20vMHI0MXc!3m5!1s0x809add4c839f6597:0xa36dd94567289888!8m2!3d38.6335863!4d-121.2691605!16s%2Fg%2F11gxthmmp3) played a major factor in my home purchasing decision because it crosses the American River. When there was no traffic, it takes 20 minutes to drive between my workplace and my home. When it's rush hour, that drive can easily take 60 minutes to just drive that same 8 miles.
When I moved to Texas, finding a place close to work was a big priority, and being within walking distance was a bonus. Just that BLEEP and then Adult Caregiver resulting in my WFHing to my dismay.
Quote from: 1 on January 31, 2023, 10:26:19 AMI believe New York (the state) doesn't even let you move from house to house more than once per year, although I'm not sure of the specifics. It's to prevent speculators from driving up housing prices.
I don't know that any state could have such a restriction without impinging unacceptably on freedom of movement. Others have suggested the policy in question is about ensuring NYS gets its bite in on income tax, but I wonder if it is actually a cap on the number of real-estate wholesaling transactions one can be involved in without holding a real estate agent's license. Illinois has such a limit (fixed at one house per year) explicitly to discourage wholesaling, though I do not know the details of how it is enforced.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMUrban/suburban life seemingly has become more and more inconvenient as time has gone on. I often ponder if that's more a change in my own mindset than it is with the actual world around me changing? Things like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
Life in big cities just seems to me excessively precarious. Housing drives cost of living up, while traffic congestion degrades quality of life to a degree that is often unpredictable from one day to the next but is always heavy. Frankly, DFW as the lower-congestion alternative to Sacramento strikes me as reflective of a lingering coastal mindset: living as I do in a city of 400,000 where commute time rarely exceeds 25 minutes, I would need a lot of convincing to move to Dallas.
This said, I'll be pleasantly surprised if we are able to hold on to what we have. Later this afternoon I am going to an open house for widening of the K-96 Northeast Freeway, which was built only a little over 30 years ago and is already at the point of needing six lanes.
Quote from: index on February 02, 2023, 09:22:29 AMTri-Cities... Elizabethton
Admittedly, it's been a few years since I drove US 321 between I-26 and US 19E, but I remember not being able to tell where Johnson City ends and Elizabethton begins without seeing a sign. My recollection is that the entire corridor is built up.
Ever think Elizabethton will get big enough to the point where Tri-Cities (Bristol, Kingsport, JC) becomes Quad-Cities? Or maybe it's really Quad now (two Bristols, after all).
Interesting fact -- that US 321 corridor is one of the few places where a concurrent Tennessee state route is fully signed with its companion US route.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 02, 2023, 02:21:38 PM
Quote from: index on February 02, 2023, 09:22:29 AMTri-Cities... Elizabethton
Admittedly, it's been a few years since I drove US 321 between I-26 and US 19E, but I remember not being able to tell where Johnson City ends and Elizabethton begins without seeing a sign. My recollection is that the entire corridor is built up.
Ever think Elizabethton will get big enough to the point where Tri-Cities (Bristol, Kingsport, JC) becomes Quad-Cities? Or maybe it's really Quad now (two Bristols, after all).
Interesting fact -- that US 321 corridor is one of the few places where a concurrent Tennessee state route is fully signed with its companion US route.
The corridor between those two points is pretty built up between 19E and Milligan Hwy, but it has no access from there till its next intersection with Milligan. It's pretty much sparse suburbs.
As for growth, I can definitely see it happening as JC gets bigger and people are looking for cheaper living with a short commute, but right now it seems to be pretty stagnant. There has been some minor residential and commercial development of old industrial sites along the former ET&WNC, but the population, according to Census data, hasn't seen much change. The most prominent building in town is still the abandoned Bemberg factory.
Quote from: ZLoth on February 01, 2023, 11:41:16 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 01, 2023, 09:19:20 PMQ: How many Texans does it take to change a light bulb?
A: They don't change the bulbs because the power's out anyhow.
My power has been extremely steady, thank you very much. Of course, being on the same circuit as a medical center and a fire station helps as well.
And the ones who have lost power can't get online to complain!
Quote from: ZLoth on February 02, 2023, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMThings like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
The bleeping Sunrise Bridge in Fair Oaks, CA (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sunrise+Bridge/@38.6357183,-121.2643344,14.25z/data=!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x809ad8571a60897b:0x9e9dfe26ef7e4c5e!2sFair+Oaks,+CA!3b1!8m2!3d38.6446264!4d-121.2721718!16zL20vMHI0MXc!3m5!1s0x809add4c839f6597:0xa36dd94567289888!8m2!3d38.6335863!4d-121.2691605!16s%2Fg%2F11gxthmmp3) played a major factor in my home purchasing decision because it crosses the American River. When there was no traffic, it takes 20 minutes to drive between my workplace and my home. When it's rush hour, that drive can easily take 60 minutes to just drive that same 8 miles.
Heh. Reminds me of the Twin Bridges north of Albany, NY. Have no idea why people kept and keep falling for the realtor sales pitch that Clifton Park was the place to live. Couldn't pay me enough to deal with that commute over those bridges.
Quote from: ZLoth on February 02, 2023, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMThings like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
The bleeping Sunrise Bridge in Fair Oaks, CA (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sunrise+Bridge/@38.6357183,-121.2643344,14.25z/data=!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x809ad8571a60897b:0x9e9dfe26ef7e4c5e!2sFair+Oaks,+CA!3b1!8m2!3d38.6446264!4d-121.2721718!16zL20vMHI0MXc!3m5!1s0x809add4c839f6597:0xa36dd94567289888!8m2!3d38.6335863!4d-121.2691605!16s%2Fg%2F11gxthmmp3) played a major factor in my home purchasing decision because it crosses the American River. When there was no traffic, it takes 20 minutes to drive between my workplace and my home. When it's rush hour, that drive can easily take 60 minutes to just drive that same 8 miles.
The Sacramento area has never been on my list of considerations for relocation for the reasons you describe. The area has outgrown the existing infrastructure and nobody wants to building anything to accommodate anyone (not to mention all the cancelled freeways). Pretty all the major roads in the metro area are in a similar predicament during rush hour.
I wonder if I've set a record for longest time living in the same efficiency apartment: 25 years.
Quote from: bandit957 on February 02, 2023, 09:18:00 PM
I wonder if I've set a record for longest time living in the same efficiency apartment: 25 years.
I've never even made it three years in a single apartment.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 09:30:19 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on February 02, 2023, 09:18:00 PM
I wonder if I've set a record for longest time living in the same efficiency apartment: 25 years.
I've never even made it three years in a single apartment.
Huh. I'm probably setting a personal record for longest time renting in one place. Never thought of that before. Not surprising though -- we really like this location and the management.
Still, the call to own a house again is always in the back of my mind.
Quote from: index on February 02, 2023, 09:22:29 AMTri-Cities... Elizabethton
Quote from: hbelkins on February 02, 2023, 02:21:38 PM
Admittedly, it's been a few years since I drove US 321 between I-26 and US 19E, but I remember not being able to tell where Johnson City ends and Elizabethton begins without seeing a sign. My recollection is that the entire corridor is built up.
Ever think Elizabethton will get big enough to the point where Tri-Cities (Bristol, Kingsport, JC) becomes Quad-Cities? Or maybe it's really Quad now (two Bristols, after all).
As a fairly frequent visitor to Elizabethton, I was under the impression that the area was in a steady decline. In actuality, the population leveled off sometime prior to Y2K and has been in a slight decline ever since. With Johnson City at 71,278, Kingsport at 55,582 and the Bristols at 27,570 TN plus 17,054 VA*, it seems doubtful that the Elizabethton (14,015) will be able to catch up anytime soon.
One of the key issues for Elizabethton is that Tennessee developed the US-19E route pushing vacation traffic towards the North Carolina vacation destinations of Grandfather Mountain, Linville Falls, Beech Mountain and Sugar Mountain. The chances of North Carolina ever constructing the complementary connection route to US-19E is slim to none. But this lines up very well with my preferred route across that steep part of the Blue Ridge, which is NC-105 going southwest out of Boone. The traffic is certainly there to justify a four-lane route across the mountains, as the vacation traffic feels more like rush hour (almost all day long, worse on weekends) in both directions between Boone and Linville (both Winter and Summer). But the existing route tops out just a hair over 4,000 feet elevation and most certainly any alternative route would require a huge tunnel. I don't ever see the other route (US-321 through Mountain City) ever getting enough traffic to warrant an upgrade. All of which will limit if and how Elizabethton will see commercial growth.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 08:33:10 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 02, 2023, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMThings like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
The bleeping Sunrise Bridge in Fair Oaks, CA (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sunrise+Bridge/@38.6357183,-121.2643344,14.25z/data=!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x809ad8571a60897b:0x9e9dfe26ef7e4c5e!2sFair+Oaks,+CA!3b1!8m2!3d38.6446264!4d-121.2721718!16zL20vMHI0MXc!3m5!1s0x809add4c839f6597:0xa36dd94567289888!8m2!3d38.6335863!4d-121.2691605!16s%2Fg%2F11gxthmmp3) played a major factor in my home purchasing decision because it crosses the American River. When there was no traffic, it takes 20 minutes to drive between my workplace and my home. When it's rush hour, that drive can easily take 60 minutes to just drive that same 8 miles.
The Sacramento area has never been on my list of considerations for relocation for the reasons you describe. The area has outgrown the existing infrastructure and nobody wants to building anything to accommodate anyone (not to mention all the cancelled freeways). Pretty all the major roads in the metro area are in a similar predicament during rush hour.
I would question whether it's the bridge that's the issue, or just the lack of freeways and high speed roadways in general? I don't see anything about the bridge specifically that would cause issues other than the fact that it should probably be a freeway instead of forcing traffic through signalized intersections on both sides.
Quote from: webny99 on February 03, 2023, 08:54:44 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 08:33:10 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 02, 2023, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMThings like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
The bleeping Sunrise Bridge in Fair Oaks, CA (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sunrise+Bridge/@38.6357183,-121.2643344,14.25z/data=!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x809ad8571a60897b:0x9e9dfe26ef7e4c5e!2sFair+Oaks,+CA!3b1!8m2!3d38.6446264!4d-121.2721718!16zL20vMHI0MXc!3m5!1s0x809add4c839f6597:0xa36dd94567289888!8m2!3d38.6335863!4d-121.2691605!16s%2Fg%2F11gxthmmp3) played a major factor in my home purchasing decision because it crosses the American River. When there was no traffic, it takes 20 minutes to drive between my workplace and my home. When it's rush hour, that drive can easily take 60 minutes to just drive that same 8 miles.
The Sacramento area has never been on my list of considerations for relocation for the reasons you describe. The area has outgrown the existing infrastructure and nobody wants to building anything to accommodate anyone (not to mention all the cancelled freeways). Pretty all the major roads in the metro area are in a similar predicament during rush hour.
I would question whether it's the bridge that's the issue, or just the lack of freeways and high speed roadways in general? I don't see anything about the bridge specifically that would cause issues other than the fact that it should probably be a freeway instead of forcing traffic through signalized intersections on both sides.
That is the issue, everyone is bottlenecking into what corridors are available. San Francisco tends to overshadow how many freeways in the Sacramento area were cancelled, it's a lot. The Sacramento Metro area has about 2.4 million residents, not exactly a tiny urban area.
Quote from: webny99 on February 03, 2023, 08:54:44 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 08:33:10 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 02, 2023, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMThings like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
The bleeping Sunrise Bridge in Fair Oaks, CA (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sunrise+Bridge/@38.6357183,-121.2643344,14.25z/data=!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x809ad8571a60897b:0x9e9dfe26ef7e4c5e!2sFair+Oaks,+CA!3b1!8m2!3d38.6446264!4d-121.2721718!16zL20vMHI0MXc!3m5!1s0x809add4c839f6597:0xa36dd94567289888!8m2!3d38.6335863!4d-121.2691605!16s%2Fg%2F11gxthmmp3) played a major factor in my home purchasing decision because it crosses the American River. When there was no traffic, it takes 20 minutes to drive between my workplace and my home. When it's rush hour, that drive can easily take 60 minutes to just drive that same 8 miles.
The Sacramento area has never been on my list of considerations for relocation for the reasons you describe. The area has outgrown the existing infrastructure and nobody wants to building anything to accommodate anyone (not to mention all the cancelled freeways). Pretty all the major roads in the metro area are in a similar predicament during rush hour.
I would question whether it's the bridge that's the issue, or just the lack of freeways and high speed roadways in general? I don't see anything about the bridge specifically that would cause issues other than the fact that it should probably be a freeway instead of forcing traffic through signalized intersections on both sides.
With US-50 along the south, these are the following crossing between Folsom Dam and Downtown Sacramento:
- Folsom Dam Road - Was the major crossing in Folsom until September 11th when it was shut down due to "security risk". It was replaced with...
- Folsom Lake Crossing Bridge - Can't locate year of construction
- Rainbow Bridge (Folsom) (https://bridgehunter.com/ca/sacramento/24C0067/) - Constructed in 1917, it was a major bottleneck in Folsom
- Lake Natoma Bridge (https://bridgehunter.com/ca/sacramento/bh37310/) - Opened in 1999[/url]
- Hazel Ave - Expanded from 2 lanes to 3 lanes[/url]
- Sunrise Blvd - Expanded from 2 lanes to 3 lanes
- Watt Ave - Expanded to four lanes in each direction.
- Howe Ave - Two lanes each direction
- J Street Bridge -Two lanes each direction
It isn't the bridge that the issue, but the lack of bridges total. There has been a need
for decades for a bridge between Sunrise Blvd and Watt Ave, but the NIMBYs kept saying NO. The population of Sacramento County has grown from 727,000 in 1977 to 1.54 million in 2018 (I left at the beginning of 2019), but the only new construction was the Lake Natoma bridge and the Folsom Lake crossing, while Hazel, Sunrise, and Watt being expanded. Many people live north of the American River and have jobs south of the American River. When I was younger, if the phone call crossed the American River, it was a "local toll call".
In 2016, when my family was rebuilding our house, we were living in a temporary apartment. Our lease ran out in the end of August a few days before our new house was complete, so we had to move into a smaller apartment for a few days until our house was ready.
Quote from: J N Winkler on February 02, 2023, 01:21:25 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMUrban/suburban life seemingly has become more and more inconvenient as time has gone on. I often ponder if that's more a change in my own mindset than it is with the actual world around me changing? Things like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
Life in big cities just seems to me excessively precarious. Housing drives cost of living up, while traffic congestion degrades quality of life to a degree that is often unpredictable from one day to the next but is always heavy. Frankly, DFW as the lower-congestion alternative to Sacramento strikes me as reflective of a lingering coastal mindset: living as I do in a city of 400,000 where commute time rarely exceeds 25 minutes, I would need a lot of convincing to move to Dallas.
This said, I'll be pleasantly surprised if we are able to hold on to what we have. Later this afternoon I am going to an open house for widening of the K-96 Northeast Freeway, which was built only a little over 30 years ago and is already at the point of needing six lanes.
Y'all do realize that this is proving induced demand is a thing.
Living in-city isn't the hardest thing in the world. You learn to avoid certain roads at certain hours, or switch modes entirely to bypass the jam. If I-5 looks jammed, I'll park and take the bus or train; if those look jammed, then I opt for a different way around. Downtown streets jammed? Train or rental bike.
Having to go drive miles and miles to run errands is exhausting. I'm looking at potentially moving in with a friend who lives in downtown Seattle, which would put me within a short train ride or bike trip of just about anything I'd need for daily living. The one hangup is being unable to bring my car to downtown, so I'd have to find a more remote parking situation and commute to and from the car if I want to road trip, but that's certainly not a daily thing.
Quote from: Bruce on February 09, 2023, 12:52:33 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on February 02, 2023, 01:21:25 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMUrban/suburban life seemingly has become more and more inconvenient as time has gone on. I often ponder if that's more a change in my own mindset than it is with the actual world around me changing? Things like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
Life in big cities just seems to me excessively precarious. Housing drives cost of living up, while traffic congestion degrades quality of life to a degree that is often unpredictable from one day to the next but is always heavy. Frankly, DFW as the lower-congestion alternative to Sacramento strikes me as reflective of a lingering coastal mindset: living as I do in a city of 400,000 where commute time rarely exceeds 25 minutes, I would need a lot of convincing to move to Dallas.
This said, I'll be pleasantly surprised if we are able to hold on to what we have. Later this afternoon I am going to an open house for widening of the K-96 Northeast Freeway, which was built only a little over 30 years ago and is already at the point of needing six lanes.
Y'all do realize that this is proving induced demand is a thing.
Both of them say traffic congestion is a deterrent to living in an area, which means once a threshold is met, demand to live in an area and for capacity of roadway actually is tampered.
When they want to move to Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo or Rochester because of their lack of traffic and available road capacity, let me know. :D
Quote from: Rothman on February 09, 2023, 09:10:59 AM
Quote from: Bruce on February 09, 2023, 12:52:33 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on February 02, 2023, 01:21:25 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMUrban/suburban life seemingly has become more and more inconvenient as time has gone on. I often ponder if that's more a change in my own mindset than it is with the actual world around me changing? Things like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
Life in big cities just seems to me excessively precarious. Housing drives cost of living up, while traffic congestion degrades quality of life to a degree that is often unpredictable from one day to the next but is always heavy. Frankly, DFW as the lower-congestion alternative to Sacramento strikes me as reflective of a lingering coastal mindset: living as I do in a city of 400,000 where commute time rarely exceeds 25 minutes, I would need a lot of convincing to move to Dallas.
This said, I'll be pleasantly surprised if we are able to hold on to what we have. Later this afternoon I am going to an open house for widening of the K-96 Northeast Freeway, which was built only a little over 30 years ago and is already at the point of needing six lanes.
Y'all do realize that this is proving induced demand is a thing.
Both of them say traffic congestion is a deterrent to living in an area, which means once a threshold is met, demand to live in an area and for capacity of roadway actually is tampered.
When they want to move to Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo or Rochester because of their lack of traffic and available road capacity, let me know. :D
I'm from Detroit originally. If there was actual jobs in the city I might have considered staying. But if there was actual worthwhile jobs then I-96 wouldn't permit people driving freely at 90 MPH plus from the suburbs. Come talk to me post retirement and Detroit probably looks like a much more attractive proposition again.
At minimum I got my work situation down to where I am gainfully employed and vested in a metro area with presently with about a million residents. That number is tolerable for the next 10-15 years but I would ideally like to chase lower.
Quote from: Bruce on February 09, 2023, 12:52:33 AMQuote from: J N Winkler on February 02, 2023, 01:21:25 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2023, 12:50:22 AMUrban/suburban life seemingly has become more and more inconvenient as time has gone on. I often ponder if that's more a change in my own mindset than it is with the actual world around me changing? Things like waiting in large lines at the store or in a big rush hour traffic jam just seem excessively draining to me now.
Life in big cities just seems to me excessively precarious. Housing drives cost of living up, while traffic congestion degrades quality of life to a degree that is often unpredictable from one day to the next but is always heavy. Frankly, DFW as the lower-congestion alternative to Sacramento strikes me as reflective of a lingering coastal mindset: living as I do in a city of 400,000 where commute time rarely exceeds 25 minutes, I would need a lot of convincing to move to Dallas.
This said, I'll be pleasantly surprised if we are able to hold on to what we have. Later this afternoon I am going to an open house for widening of the K-96 Northeast Freeway, which was built only a little over 30 years ago and is already at the point of needing six lanes.
Y'all do realize that this is proving induced demand is a thing.
Not going there! I do agree that development patterns respond to the presence of a freeway over time, and any metro area with a strong developer community is going to struggle to maintain free capacity/preserve LOS minimums over time.
Quote from: Bruce on February 09, 2023, 12:52:33 AMLiving in-city isn't the hardest thing in the world. You learn to avoid certain roads at certain hours, or switch modes entirely to bypass the jam. If I-5 looks jammed, I'll park and take the bus or train; if those look jammed, then I opt for a different way around. Downtown streets jammed? Train or rental bike.
Yup. I have done all of those (except rental bike) when visiting large cities. There is frequently a time/convenience penalty that I regard as the price of easy access to big-city amenities and not having to scrounge for car parking.
Quote from: Bruce on February 09, 2023, 12:52:33 AMHaving to go drive miles and miles to run errands is exhausting. I'm looking at potentially moving in with a friend who lives in downtown Seattle, which would put me within a short train ride or bike trip of just about anything I'd need for daily living. The one hangup is being unable to bring my car to downtown, so I'd have to find a more remote parking situation and commute to and from the car if I want to road trip, but that's certainly not a daily thing.
You live in the Seattle area, which is congested to begin with, and whose isthmus geography complicates provision of highway infrastructure. So, yes, I absolutely can believe it would be exhausting to run errands by car even if they were chained. It is different here, because of not just easier geography (no Lake Washington), but also lower overall population--the stops are closer together despite somewhat lower density of suburban development.
Quote from: Rothman on February 09, 2023, 09:10:59 AMBoth of them say traffic congestion is a deterrent to living in an area, which means once a threshold is met, demand to live in an area and for capacity of roadway actually is tampered.
Not quite. What we are saying is that congestion serves as a deterrent to people who share
our personal preferences. Such cities continue to grow (to a point well beyond what we would consider tolerable) because the US population as a whole is far more willing to perform congestion arbitrage.
Quote from: Rothman on February 09, 2023, 09:10:59 AMWhen they want to move to Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo or Rochester because of their lack of traffic and available road capacity, let me know. :D
I'll pass. They suffer, to greater or lesser degree, from a doughnut problem in which congestion is worse in the suburbs than in the city center, owing to the latter having experienced more economic distress. I've actually sat in standstill traffic on I-480 in metro Cleveland.