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Author Topic: ACCESS Oklahoma  (Read 32949 times)

Plutonic Panda

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2022, 07:00:25 PM »

I was hoping the Kickapoo would be have it's junction with I-35 at Davis. Would have save about 20 miles of backtracking for those coming from DFW to Tulsa.

That's actually meant to be the Chickasaw Turnpike's job (the original plan was I-35-Ada-Henryetta). But Henry Bellmon killed everything but what was actually built.
Wow what a jokester. Why even build the portion they built then? They need to expand and extend that road ASAP and build it to the original plan.
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Scott5114

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2022, 07:07:04 PM »

I was hoping the Kickapoo would be have it's junction with I-35 at Davis. Would have save about 20 miles of backtracking for those coming from DFW to Tulsa.

That's actually meant to be the Chickasaw Turnpike's job (the original plan was I-35-Ada-Henryetta). But Henry Bellmon killed everything but what was actually built.
Wow what a jokester. Why even build the portion they built then? They need to expand and extend that road ASAP and build it to the original plan.

It was part of a compromise in the Legislature. The Chickasaw was part of the same turnpike package as the Creek, John Kilpatrick, and Cherokee turnpikes. Rural legislators held it hostage and threatened to kill the whole package until the Chickasaw Turnpike was added. They additionally added a rider stating that work on the Creek and Kilpatrick couldn't start until the Chickasaw was finished.

Bellmon (and indeed OTA itself) was opposed to the Chickasaw Turnpike concept because he believed it wouldn't bring in enough money to justify the expense of building it, but the Legislature demanded that something had to be built, so they built...that.

Quote from: Dewey Bartlett, Jr., OTA board member
I think it stinks. We never wanted to build it. It was not anything we thought was appropriate. But in order to build the three turnpikes that were necessary, that is the only way they would build it.

Quote from: State Rep. Danny Hilliard (D-Sulphur)
Its been nothing but an albatross ever since they built the thing.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2022, 07:11:01 PM by Scott5114 »
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Bobby5280

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2022, 07:57:06 PM »

I've driven on the Chickasaw Turnpike only a couple of times in the nearly 30 years I've lived in Oklahoma. I remember seeing very little traffic on it. It's amazing such a porky pork-barrel project was ever built and built in such a half-ass manner. That 2-lane turnpike doesn't directly connect to any other limited access highways. The South entrance on OK-7 is 8.5 miles East of I-35. And its North terminus at OK-1 is about 10 miles South of Ada. Basically it's only a turnpike stub rather than a fully functional turnpike. It just wasn't finished.

The same kind of wasteful thinking behind the Chickasaw Turnpike was at the heart of some other proposed turnpike projects in the 1990's that were (thankfully) never built, such the Duncan to Davis turnpike and the Clinton to Snyder turnpike.

The kind of policy follow-thru that allowed the Chickasaw Turnpike to be only partially built was also reflected in the started but never finished H.E. Bailey Turnpike Spur. They started on the effort and then quit.

It will be interesting to see what kind of follow-thru OTA can maintain with these Access Oklahoma projects. 15 years from now will we have more unfinished turnpike spurs and stubs or will we see things taken fully from concept to completion?

Now that OTA has made it public where it intends to build they had better start working quick to buy and preserve ROW ASAP. I can easily imagine all the land along the proposed path of the East-to-West Connector getting snapped up by real estate speculators just to make the turnpike much more expensive to build.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2022, 09:36:29 PM by Bobby5280 »
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Scott5114

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2022, 08:12:57 PM »

As I was getting at in my last post, nobody actually involved in building the roads wanted the Chickasaw to be built at all. There was never any intent or desire to follow through on it. What was built was "this technically satisfies the legal requirements we have to fulfill to build the things we actually want to build". Because the rural legislators insisted on it, not building it was never an option, as cancelling the Chickasaw entirely would have cancelled the Creek, Kilpatrick, and Cherokee as well.
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Bobby5280

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2022, 10:01:21 PM »

What's sad is that while the rural legislators may have lobbied for the Chickasaw Turnpike to be built the path of it really did little to help anybody. If the legislators thought the turnpike would be "a gift for the farmers" they might have forgotten that most farmers and rural types of people in general have a pretty intense hatred for toll roads.

It will be interesting to see what kind of game plan OTA has for the build-out of the Access Oklahoma projects. That is if there is a full-blown game plan. The Access Oklahoma web site has a FAQ video on how the property acquisition process works. But they don't have any time lines on when they'll actually move to buy and secure ROW. I wonder if any work has been done on the environmental and legal process for any of these projects. The completion dates are pretty much all "TBD."

One thing is certain: if OTA piddles around for the rest of this decade letting all this stuff only exist on paper a bunch of it will end up being impossible to build. The clock is really ticking fast on that East to West Connector. The semi-rural gap between Norman and Moore where they're charting that route is going to fill in and fill in fast. Job #1 should be laying down a Texas-style divided street with a huge median along most of the length of that turnpike route. If they don't do that within the next couple or so years they won't be able to build the project at all.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2022, 10:23:15 PM »

I talked with the OTA. They said the plan is to get the urban projects done first within 10 years and the east to west connector will be high priority.

Also heard from a couple different people there US-412 will be I-42.
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sprjus4

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2022, 11:35:17 PM »

I talked with the OTA. They said the plan is to get the urban projects done first within 10 years and the east to west connector will be high priority.

Also heard from a couple different people there US-412 will be I-42.
Has AASHTO or FHWA approved such a designation? Since the legislation never included a number, it would go through that process.

It would seem foolish to approve I-42 when other similar numbers such as I-46 or I-48 are available, given the existence of I-42 in North Carolina.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2022, 12:31:12 AM »

I talked with the OTA. They said the plan is to get the urban projects done first within 10 years and the east to west connector will be high priority.

Also heard from a couple different people there US-412 will be I-42.
Has AASHTO or FHWA approved such a designation? Since the legislation never included a number, it would go through that process.

It would seem foolish to approve I-42 when other similar numbers such as I-46 or I-48 are available, given the existence of I-42 in North Carolina.
Not sure that just what I was told. If I-42 does exist in NC then I doubt it gets designated in Oklahoma. Are there any examples of that happening elsewhere?
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Scott5114

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2022, 12:39:09 AM »

There are several examples: 76, 84, 86, 87. All of those were simply because there was no suitable in-grid number that wasn't a duplicate, however.
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sprjus4

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2022, 12:48:55 AM »

There are several examples: 76, 84, 86, 87. All of those were simply because there was no suitable in-grid number that wasn't a duplicate, however.
And in this case, there are other in-grid numbers.

There's no reason to sign I-42 across US-412.

I-42 was the designation approved by AASHTO back in 2016 for the future interstate corridor between Raleigh and Morehead City, NC. Further, the AASHTO recently approved at its last meeting two segments (freeways that meet interstate standards and connect to another interstate highway) of I-42 to be officially signed which will likely happen this year.
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US 89

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2022, 01:00:02 AM »

I-42 has similar digits to US 412 and is at a similar latitude as NC's I-42. I don't see why not.

DavesTravels

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2022, 03:05:45 AM »

I talked with the OTA. They said the plan is to get the urban projects done first within 10 years and the east to west connector will be high priority.

Also heard from a couple different people there US-412 will be I-42.
Did you ask them about the Kickapoo to Purcell and JKT to I-44? From what I'm gathering in the post those 2 would probably be ranked just as high as the east-west connector especially considering they're tying that into the southern Kickapoo extension
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2022, 03:23:06 AM »

I talked with the OTA. They said the plan is to get the urban projects done first within 10 years and the east to west connector will be high priority.

Also heard from a couple different people there US-412 will be I-42.
Did you ask them about the Kickapoo to Purcell and JKT to I-44? From what I'm gathering in the post those 2 would probably be ranked just as high as the east-west connector especially considering they're tying that into the southern Kickapoo extension
Yes. They said the first projects will likely be the urban ones and they will focus on the JKT/Hefner Parkway and widenings. The East-West connector and Kickapoo southern extension are high priority. They said that of all the proposed projects the only one that is subject to significant changes is the JKT to tri-city connector.

Interestingly enough the gentleman that I spoke with said there is an outline of dozens of project corridors where future tollways could be built under plans from when the first turnpikes were built. Id like to see those.
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Scott5114

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2022, 05:32:40 AM »

Back in the day, there was an FTP site that OTA ran that had a lot of the early plans for the turnpikes that did get built. Most people would have found it kind of hard to get to since it was a bit more complicated to use than typical HTTP. I don't remember seeing any unbuilt plans on there, but I wouldn't have been surprised if they were there too.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2022, 06:04:31 AM »

Back in the day, there was an FTP site that OTA ran that had a lot of the early plans for the turnpikes that did get built. Most people would have found it kind of hard to get to since it was a bit more complicated to use than typical HTTP. I don't remember seeing any unbuilt plans on there, but I wouldn't have been surprised if they were there too.
The way it was phrased or at least how interpreted it was that there werent specific plans just general areas or corridors where a future turnpike could be built. He brought that up when I asked about an a northern or western extension(from the future southern extension).
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rte66man

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2022, 02:25:02 PM »

I was hoping the Kickapoo would be have it's junction with I-35 at Davis. Would have save about 20 miles of backtracking for those coming from DFW to Tulsa.

That's actually meant to be the Chickasaw Turnpike's job (the original plan was I-35-Ada-Henryetta). But Henry Bellmon killed everything but what was actually built.
Wow what a jokester. Why even build the portion they built then? They need to expand and extend that road ASAP and build it to the original plan.

It was part of a compromise in the Legislature. The Chickasaw was part of the same turnpike package as the Creek, John Kilpatrick, and Cherokee turnpikes. Rural legislators held it hostage and threatened to kill the whole package until the Chickasaw Turnpike was added. They additionally added a rider stating that work on the Creek and Kilpatrick couldn't start until the Chickasaw was finished.

Bellmon (and indeed OTA itself) was opposed to the Chickasaw Turnpike concept because he believed it wouldn't bring in enough money to justify the expense of building it, but the Legislature demanded that something had to be built, so they built...that.

Quote from: Dewey Bartlett, Jr., OTA board member
I think it stinks. We never wanted to build it. It was not anything we thought was appropriate. But in order to build the three turnpikes that were necessary, that is the only way they would build it.

Quote from: State Rep. Danny Hilliard (D-Sulphur)
Its been nothing but an albatross ever since they built the thing.

Scott, thanks for the quotes. I was working the the Legislature when all this went down and you got it EXACTLY right. the Ada bunch settled for this piece thinking they could get the rest later. They were incorrect.
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rte66man

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2022, 02:26:36 PM »

Back in the day, there was an FTP site that OTA ran that had a lot of the early plans for the turnpikes that did get built. Most people would have found it kind of hard to get to since it was a bit more complicated to use than typical HTTP. I don't remember seeing any unbuilt plans on there, but I wouldn't have been surprised if they were there too.
The way it was phrased or at least how interpreted it was that there werent specific plans just general areas or corridors where a future turnpike could be built. He brought that up when I asked about an a northern or western extension(from the future southern extension).

All turnpikes have to be authorized with specific sections of legislation.

Quote
69-1705.  Authority - Powers and duties.
The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority is hereby authorized and empowered:
(a)  To adopt bylaws for the regulation of its affairs and conduct of its business.
(b)  To adopt an official seal and alter the same at pleasure.
(c)  To maintain an office at such place or places within the state as it may designate.
(d)  To sue and be sued in contract, reverse condemnation, equity, mandamus and similar actions in its own name, plead and be impleaded; provided, that any and all actions at law or in equity against the Authority shall be brought in the county in which the principal office of the Authority shall be located, or in the county of the residence of the plaintiff, or the county where the cause of action arose.  All privileges granted to the Authority and duties enjoined upon the Authority by the provisions of Sections 1701 through 1734 of this title may be enforced in a court of competent jurisdiction in an action in mandamus.
(e)  To construct, maintain, repair and operate turnpike projects and highways, with their access and connecting roads, at such locations and on such routes as it shall determine to be feasible and economically sound; provided, that until specifically authorized by the Legislature, the Authority shall be authorized to construct and operate toll turnpikes only at the following locations:
(1)  The Turner Turnpike between Oklahoma City and Tulsa.
(2)  The Southwestern (H.E. Bailey) Turnpike between Oklahoma City and Wichita Falls, Texas.
(3)  The Northeastern (Will Rogers) Turnpike between Tulsa and Joplin, Missouri.
(4)  The Eastern (Indian Nation) Turnpike between Tulsa and Paris, Texas, including all or any part thereof between McAlester and the Red River south of Hugo.
(5)  The Cimarron Turnpike between Tulsa and Interstate Highway 35 north of Perry, including a connection to Stillwater.
(6)  The Muskogee Turnpike between Broken Arrow and Interstate Highway 40 west of Webbers Falls.
(7)  All or any part of an extension of the Muskogee Turnpike, beginning at a point on Interstate Highway 40 near the present south terminus of the Muskogee Turnpike, and extending in a southeasterly direction on an alignment near Stigler, Poteau and Heavener to the vicinity of the Arkansas State Line to furnish access to Hot Springs, Texarkana, Shreveport and New Orleans.
(8)  A tollgate on the Turner Turnpike in the vicinity of Luther, Oklahoma, and in the vicinity of the intersection of State Highway 33 and Turner Turnpike in Creek County, Oklahoma, or in the vicinity of the intersection of State Highway 33 and Turner Turnpike or U.S. Highway 66 in Creek County, Oklahoma, from any monies available to the Authority.
(9)  Add on the Will Rogers Turnpike a northbound automatic tollgate onto State Highway 28 and a southbound on-ramp from State Highway 28.
(10)  A turnpike or any part or parts thereof beginning in the vicinity of Duncan extending east to the vicinity of the City of Davis, and extending in a northeasterly direction, by way of the vicinity of the City of Ada, to a connection in the vicinity of Henryetta or in the vicinity of the intersection of State Highway 48 and Interstate 40; and a turnpike or any part or parts thereof from the vicinity of Snyder extending north to the vicinity of Woodward.
(11)  A turnpike or any part or parts thereof beginning at a point in the vicinity of Ponca City, or at a point on the Kansas-Oklahoma state boundary line east of the Arkansas River and west of the point where Oklahoma State Highway No. 18 intersects said state boundary line, and extending in a southeasterly direction to a connection with the Tulsa Urban Expressway System in the general area of the Port of Catoosa.
(12)  All or any part of an Oklahoma City toll expressway system connecting the residential, industrial and State Capitol Complex in the north part of Oklahoma City with the residential, industrial and Will Rogers World Airport Complex in the south and southwest parts of Oklahoma City.
(13)  A turnpike (The Industrial Parkway) or any part or parts thereof beginning at a point on the Oklahoma-Kansas state boundary line between the point where U.S. Highway 66 intersects the boundary line and the northeast corner of Oklahoma and ending by means of a connection or connections with Shreveport, Louisiana, and Houston, Texas, in southeastern Oklahoma and at no point to exceed thirty (30) miles west of the Missouri or Arkansas border.
(14)  A turnpike or any part or parts thereof beginning in the vicinity of Velma or County Line to a point intersecting with Interstate 35 in the area south of Davis.
(15)  A turnpike or any part or parts thereof beginning in the vicinity of Watonga and extending south and/or east to the vicinity of north and/or west Oklahoma City.
(16)  A tollgate on the Will Rogers Turnpike near the intersection of State Highway 137 and the Will Rogers Turnpike, located south of Quapaw.
(17)  A tollgate on the Muskogee Turnpike in the vicinity of Porter, Oklahoma, a tollgate on the Will Rogers Turnpike in the vicinity of Adair, Oklahoma, a tollgate on the Turner Turnpike in the vicinity of Luther, Oklahoma, and a tollgate on the H.E. Bailey Turnpike at Elgin, Oklahoma, from any monies available to the Authority.
(18)  A tollgate on the Turner Turnpike in the vicinity of Wellston, Oklahoma, from any monies available to the Authority.
(19)  A tollgate on the Muskogee Turnpike in the vicinity of Brushy Mountain, Oklahoma, and in the vicinity of Elm Grove, Oklahoma, from any monies available to the Authority.
(20)  All or any part of an Oklahoma City Outer Loop expressway system beginning in the vicinity of I-35 and the Turner Turnpike and extending west into Canadian County and then south to I-40; and then south and east to I-35 in the vicinity of Moore and Norman; and then extending east and north to I-40 east of Tinker Field; and then extending north to the Turner Turnpike to complete the Outer Loop.
(21)  All or any part of the Tulsa south bypass expressway system beginning in the vicinity of the Turner Turnpike near Sapulpa and extending south and east to U.S. 75 in the vicinity of 96th Street to 121st Street; and then east across the Arkansas River to a connection with the Mingo Valley Expressway; and then south and/or east to a point on the Tulsa-Wagoner County Line near 131st street south in the city of Broken Arrow.
(22)  A new turnpike or any part thereof from near the west gate of the Will Rogers Turnpike south to the west end of south Tulsa Turnpike at the Tulsa-Wagoner County Line.
(23)  A new turnpike or any parts thereof from the vicinity of the connection between State Highway 33 and U.S. 69 easterly to the Arkansas State Line.
(24)  A four-lane extension of the Muskogee Turnpike from Interstate Highway 40 west of Webbers Falls to the Poteau vicinity.
(25)  A new turnpike or any part or parts thereof beginning at a point in the vicinity of northwest Tulsa, and extending in a northwesterly direction, by means of a connection or connections with the cities of Pawhuska and Newkirk, to a point intersecting in the vicinity of US Highway No. 77 and the Kansas State Line.
(26)  A full access interchange on the Indian Nation Turnpike south of Interstate 40, in the vicinity of Henryetta, Oklahoma, and in the vicinity of the proposed theme park, museum or an industrial facility which qualifies for the Oklahoma Quality Jobs Program Act, from any monies available to the Authority.
(27)  A new turnpike beginning at a point directly west of the Arkansas line and four-laning Highway 70 from that point to the farthest western reach of Highway 70 creating a southern route through Oklahoma.
(28)  A new turnpike and bridge or any parts thereof from a point in the vicinity of the city of Mustang southerly across the South Canadian River to the H.E. Bailey Turnpike in the vicinity of the city of Tuttle; and then easterly across the South Canadian River to a point in the vicinity of the city of Norman.
(29)  A new turnpike or any parts thereof beginning at a point in the vicinity of the city of Altus and extending in a northwesterly direction to a point in the vicinity of the city of Sayre.
(30)  A new turnpike or any parts thereof beginning at a point in the vicinity of the city of Enid and extending in a westerly direction to a point in the vicinity of the city of Woodward.
(31)  An on- and off-ramp or any parts thereof at Fletcher, Oklahoma, in the vicinity of the Interstate 44 and State Highway 277 intersection.  Any existing on- or off-ramp or any parts thereof in the vicinity of Fletcher, Oklahoma, shall not be removed and shall be maintained pursuant to Section 1701 et seq. of this title.
(32)  A new bridge crossing the Arkansas River between South Delaware Avenue and Memorial Drive in Tulsa County.  This project shall commence upon a determination by the Oklahoma Transportation Authority that such bridge shall be self-sufficient at some point over a thirty-year time period from the toll charges associated with the bridge project.
(33)  An exit ramp or any parts thereof from the eastbound lane of the Turner Turnpike at 96th Street in Tulsa.
(34)  An on- and off-ramp or any parts thereof on the Cimarron Turnpike in the vicinity of the northside of the Glencoe, Oklahoma, municipal limits.
(35)  A new turnpike or any parts thereof beginning at Interstate 44 at or near its intersection with 49th West Avenue, past State Highway 64/412, turning northeasterly, crossing 41st West Avenue, and continuing eastward to the L.L. Tisdale Expressway in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 02:43:24 PM by rte66man »
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rte66man

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2022, 02:34:42 PM »

I've driven on the Chickasaw Turnpike only a couple of times in the nearly 30 years I've lived in Oklahoma. I remember seeing very little traffic on it. It's amazing such a porky pork-barrel project was ever built and built in such a half-ass manner. That 2-lane turnpike doesn't directly connect to any other limited access highways. The South entrance on OK-7 is 8.5 miles East of I-35. And its North terminus at OK-1 is about 10 miles South of Ada. Basically it's only a turnpike stub rather than a fully functional turnpike. It just wasn't finished.

Quote
69-1911.  Transfer of Chickasaw Turnpike to Department of Transportation.
The Department of Transportation may accept the transfer of all or part of the roadway and any appurtenances thereto known as the Chickasaw Turnpike.
Added by Laws 2003, c. 206, 3, emerg. eff. May 12, 2003; Amended by Laws 2006, c. 118, 1, emerg. eff. May 4, 2006.

Did ODOT accept the road?
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Bobby5280

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2022, 02:52:18 PM »

Quote from: rte66man
Did ODOT accept the road?

Last time I checked the Chickasaw Turnpike was still a turnpike. It still had a toll gate.

Quote from: DavesTravels
Did you ask them about the Kickapoo to Purcell and JKT to I-44? From what I'm gathering in the post those 2 would probably be ranked just as high as the east-west connector especially considering they're tying that into the southern Kickapoo extension

The Southern extension of the Kickapoo Turnpike is less in danger of having its ROW gobbled in the near future than the East-to-West Turnpike. The proposed path of the Kickapoo South Extension runs through pretty much only rural areas. The only area that is a potential near-term problem is the segment where the turnpike runs close to Lake Thunderbird. It's possible a real estate speculator could buy a bunch of property there and hold OTA hostage for a big payday. Such a ploy could backfire against the speculator via court battles over eminent domain. And then there is the added possibility a Southern Kickapoo Turnpike extension could greatly enhance development and property values after the turnpike is completed. Not before. The speculator would shoot himself in the foot making it more difficult and costly to build the turnpike, dragging out the process. He would be waiting longer to see any profit from the ploy.

The situation in the zone between Moore and Norman (around West Indian Hills Road) is different. Those vacant blocks of land are going to get covered up with development whether a new highway gets built through there or not. Real estate squatters have nothing to lose at buying up parcels of land in the East-to-West Turnpike ROW path. They can try to strong-arm OTA for a lot of extra money. If that doesn't work another developer will pay a premium for the land.

There is also the risk other anti-roads, New Urbanist business people could buy up land in an attempt to block the East to West Turnpike from being built. If they succeed they can sell off the property to other developers wanting to build more McMansions and strip shopping plazas.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 03:00:33 PM by Bobby5280 »
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Scott5114

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2022, 06:28:22 PM »

Scott, thanks for the quotes. I was working the the Legislature when all this went down and you got it EXACTLY right. the Ada bunch settled for this piece thinking they could get the rest later. They were incorrect.

Thanks, although I really have to share credit with the Tulsa World reporting on the subject that I studied as I was writing the Wikipedia article for the Chickasaw (which is one of three articles I've written that have been awarded featured status and appeared on the Main Page). The articles that I read didn't identify who the "rural legislators" were by name, but I'm guessing from what I've learned since then that Lonnie Abbott was the ringleader.

Quote
69-1911.  Transfer of Chickasaw Turnpike to Department of Transportation.
The Department of Transportation may accept the transfer of all or part of the roadway and any appurtenances thereto known as the Chickasaw Turnpike.
Added by Laws 2003, c. 206, 3, emerg. eff. May 12, 2003; Amended by Laws 2006, c. 118, 1, emerg. eff. May 4, 2006.

Did ODOT accept the road?

ODOT accepted the part of the turnpike west of US-177; that portion is now SH-7 Spur. As a condition of accepting the road, ODOT made OTA do a full-depth reconstruction of the mainline and complete the interchange at US-177 (it was previously a partial interchange with westbound exit and eastbound entrance, exactly the opposite needed to be to be useful as a Sulphur bypass).
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I-35

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2022, 10:39:39 AM »

As mentioned earlier, the 240 overlay onto Kickapoo seems rather short-sighted given these plans.  Kickapoo should easily be given an x35 or an x44 designation based on the Purcell extension.  I'd recommend I-835 and merge it back into the mainline I-35 north of Guthrie.
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DavesTravels

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2022, 06:47:01 PM »

I talked with the OTA. They said the plan is to get the urban projects done first within 10 years and the east to west connector will be high priority.

Also heard from a couple different people there US-412 will be I-42.
Did you ask them about the Kickapoo to Purcell and JKT to I-44? From what I'm gathering in the post those 2 would probably be ranked just as high as the east-west connector especially considering they're tying that into the southern Kickapoo extension
Yes. They said the first projects will likely be the urban ones and they will focus on the JKT/Hefner Parkway and widenings. The East-West connector and Kickapoo southern extension are high priority. They said that of all the proposed projects the only one that is subject to significant changes is the JKT to tri-city connector.

Interestingly enough the gentleman that I spoke with said there is an outline of dozens of project corridors where future tollways could be built under plans from when the first turnpikes were built. Id like to see those.
Given the layout of the proposed layout of the JKT I wouln't be surprised to see that get rerouted, not sure how much though.

When I saw how they tied in the Kickapoo to I-35 it sounds like they're building a full bridge over I-35 which indicates that they plan to eventually tied the Kickapoo to the Bailey/44 either near Chickasha or near Lawton

Speaking of future tollways are they referring to what they planned on doing the first time (e.g. extending the Muskogee to Poteau from I-40), if it's not that then the only thing I can think of would be the extension of the Cimmaron west of I-35 (running along 412/future Interstate) to Northwest Oklahoma which could be part of the overall plans to tie in the new Interstate from I-35, west and eventually northwest towards Limon and I-70 (and eventually to Denver).

Not that I'm expecting them to say anything about future tollway plans but I'd be curious to know what their plans are beyond the projects already announced.
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swake

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2022, 08:52:15 PM »

I talked with the OTA. They said the plan is to get the urban projects done first within 10 years and the east to west connector will be high priority.

Also heard from a couple different people there US-412 will be I-42.
Did you ask them about the Kickapoo to Purcell and JKT to I-44? From what I'm gathering in the post those 2 would probably be ranked just as high as the east-west connector especially considering they're tying that into the southern Kickapoo extension
Yes. They said the first projects will likely be the urban ones and they will focus on the JKT/Hefner Parkway and widenings. The East-West connector and Kickapoo southern extension are high priority. They said that of all the proposed projects the only one that is subject to significant changes is the JKT to tri-city connector.

Interestingly enough the gentleman that I spoke with said there is an outline of dozens of project corridors where future tollways could be built under plans from when the first turnpikes were built. Id like to see those.
Given the layout of the proposed layout of the JKT I wouln't be surprised to see that get rerouted, not sure how much though.

When I saw how they tied in the Kickapoo to I-35 it sounds like they're building a full bridge over I-35 which indicates that they plan to eventually tied the Kickapoo to the Bailey/44 either near Chickasha or near Lawton

Speaking of future tollways are they referring to what they planned on doing the first time (e.g. extending the Muskogee to Poteau from I-40), if it's not that then the only thing I can think of would be the extension of the Cimmaron west of I-35 (running along 412/future Interstate) to Northwest Oklahoma which could be part of the overall plans to tie in the new Interstate from I-35, west and eventually northwest towards Limon and I-70 (and eventually to Denver).

Not that I'm expecting them to say anything about future tollway plans but I'd be curious to know what their plans are beyond the projects already announced.

The Cimmaron will probably be extended east the last few miles to the Arkansas state line to match whatever kind of bypass Arkansas builds around Siloam Springs, whenever Arkansas is ready to build that segment of the new Interstate.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2022, 08:57:08 PM »

I talked with the OTA. They said the plan is to get the urban projects done first within 10 years and the east to west connector will be high priority.

Also heard from a couple different people there US-412 will be I-42.
Did you ask them about the Kickapoo to Purcell and JKT to I-44? From what I'm gathering in the post those 2 would probably be ranked just as high as the east-west connector especially considering they're tying that into the southern Kickapoo extension
Yes. They said the first projects will likely be the urban ones and they will focus on the JKT/Hefner Parkway and widenings. The East-West connector and Kickapoo southern extension are high priority. They said that of all the proposed projects the only one that is subject to significant changes is the JKT to tri-city connector.

Interestingly enough the gentleman that I spoke with said there is an outline of dozens of project corridors where future tollways could be built under plans from when the first turnpikes were built. Id like to see those.
Given the layout of the proposed layout of the JKT I wouln't be surprised to see that get rerouted, not sure how much though.

When I saw how they tied in the Kickapoo to I-35 it sounds like they're building a full bridge over I-35 which indicates that they plan to eventually tied the Kickapoo to the Bailey/44 either near Chickasha or near Lawton

Speaking of future tollways are they referring to what they planned on doing the first time (e.g. extending the Muskogee to Poteau from I-40), if it's not that then the only thing I can think of would be the extension of the Cimmaron west of I-35 (running along 412/future Interstate) to Northwest Oklahoma which could be part of the overall plans to tie in the new Interstate from I-35, west and eventually northwest towards Limon and I-70 (and eventually to Denver).

Not that I'm expecting them to say anything about future tollway plans but I'd be curious to know what their plans are beyond the projects already announced.

The Cimmaron will probably be extended east the last few miles to the Arkansas state line to match whatever kind of bypass Arkansas builds around Siloam Springs, whenever Arkansas is ready to build that segment of the new Interstate.
Hopefully not. This road should be free. Even better if they make the tolled segments free but I dont see that happening. Tulsa needs some toll free routes. I-45 and I-50 ;)
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Bobby5280

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Re: ACCESS Oklahoma
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2022, 09:21:36 PM »

Quote from: DavesTravels
Given the layout of the proposed layout of the JKT I wouln't be surprised to see that get rerouted, not sure how much though.

Are you talking about the JKT to Tri-City Connector? If so, I think that route around the West and South sides of Will Rogers Airport is about as good as it can be. That new turnpike segment could be really great as a reliever route for that very busy zone on I-44 between the West end of I-240 and interchange with Airport Road. Of course Yukon and Mustang are going to need other super highway improvements in addition to that connector.

Quote from: DavesTravels
When I saw how they tied in the Kickapoo to I-35 it sounds like they're building a full bridge over I-35 which indicates that they plan to eventually tied the Kickapoo to the Bailey/44 either near Chickasha or near Lawton.

I don't see a Chickasha to Slaughterville turnpike ever happening. It would be a waste of money to build roughly 30 miles of new terrain turnpike just 8 miles South of the existing H.E. Bailey Turnpike Spur. It would actually be considerably less expensive to extend the H.E. Bailey Turnpike Spur the last 6 miles to I-35. And the road going by Riverwind Casino would get a whole lot more use.

Quote from: DavesTravels
Speaking of future tollways are they referring to what they planned on doing the first time (e.g. extending the Muskogee to Poteau from I-40), if it's not that then the only thing I can think of would be the extension of the Cimmaron west of I-35 (running along 412/future Interstate) to Northwest Oklahoma which could be part of the overall plans to tie in the new Interstate from I-35, west and eventually northwest towards Limon and I-70 (and eventually to Denver).

The Chickasaw Turnpike is a whole other deal than an extension of the Muskogee Turnpike to Poteau. There has been a lot of conceptual turnpikes drawn up over the previous decades. Some were good ideas and others have been ridiculous.

The US-412 upgrade to an Interstate has some limited growth potential. I think it would be good if US-412 could be turned into a freeway from I-35 to Enid. A limited access freeway or turnpike between Enid and Woodward is more iffy. And one going all the way out to Boise City is more iffy than that. Concepts have been tossed around in the past though.

I strongly believe a Denver to OKC diagonal Interstate would be incredibly valuable to the nation's highway network in the big picture view. Actually I think it should be Denver to Texarkana going thru OKC. West of the Mississippi River there are very few diagonal Interstates running Northwest to Southeast. Diagonal routes in the Western US mostly run Southwest to Northeast. Metros in the Northwest like Salt Lake City and Boise are growing. Same goes for the Front Range Cities in Colorado. There is no diagonal super highway access for that Northwest region going direct to the Deep South. You literally have to drive East of St Louis for such routes, like I-24.

Limon is an important jumping point. A diagonal Interstate going to OKC could begin there, overlapping US-287 down to Kit Carson. It would be akin to the nature of I-44 running diagonally from St Louis to OKC. Kit Carson could be another junction point with a North extension of I-27. The OTA has had plans on the books from a turnpike from OKC to Woodward (and Boise City). But it has little chance of ever getting built as an in-state only route. Likewise CDOT isn't going to much with US-287 and I-27 without some serious federal involvement. Over the long term it's possible OK-3 could be improved quite a bit between OKC and Woodward. But the Woodward to Kit Carson leg would require all new terrain in 3 states. It would take federal involvement to coordinate a big picture plan.

If a major Denver-OKC diagonal Interstate was ever built then it would make a US-412 freeway or turnpike between Woodward and I-35 much more viable.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 09:28:49 PM by Bobby5280 »
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