ACCESS Oklahoma

[Plutonic Panda]

$200 million going towards getting these projects moving forward: https://okcfox.com/news/local/oklahoma-turnpike-authority-ota-finance-expansion-project-200-million-dollars-secretary-tim-gatz-norman

[Plutonic Panda]

Some information has been updated which includes the cost estimates. The east to west connector which IIRC was estimated at 500 million is now estimated at 1.5 billion. That seems more accurate given the 5 stack at I-35 will likely cost at least half a billion alone.

https://www.accessoklahoma.com/east-west-connector

It's my favorite project and the most expensive of all of them including the Turner Widening.

[Plutonic Panda]

More ridiculous and misinformed articles:

NORMAN – The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority may have exceeded its authority in planning new pay roads that would affect Norman, Noble and Slaughterville, a Norman lawmaker and attorneys representing OTA opponents said Friday.

Previously expressed local objections to new turnpike plans became even more pronounced after the OTA filed credit applications with the Council of Bond Oversight for $200 million to advance plans.

Attorneys for Norman homeowners and members of the nonprofit Pike Off OTA filed formal objections asserting the OTA's lack of legal authority to build turnpikes in the area. They also cautioned that planned new roadways would threaten the property and livelihoods of thousands of Oklahomans.

Attorneys Robert Norman and Elaine Dowling asked the Bond Oversight Council to suspend authorizing bonds or any other financing until a legal interpretation is rendered of statutes that the OTA claims authorize the project.

"The OTA may only construct and operate turnpikes in locations specifically authorized by statute. There are 35 possible turnpike locations specified in statute; however, the turnpike (that) Access Oklahoma would put through east Norman, Noble, and Slaughterville is not authorized by any of the 35 possibilities,"  Dowling said.

In a release, Norman also pointed out that the authorizing statute for an "East-West connector"  planned to run along the northern edge of Norman would be subject to specific bonding requirements put in place by the Legislature in 1987, and that the OTA's Access Oklahoma Plan would violate those requirements.

In a statement, state Sen. Mary Boren, D-Norman, said she hopes the Council of Bond Oversight will consider the legal defects in the OTA's request for funding.

"It's important that we demand that the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority obey statutory authority when asking to spend $5 billion over the next 15 years on projects that would displace thousands of Oklahomans and hundreds of homes and businesses,"  Boren said. "Before we start making plans to build new turnpikes, we need to make sure OTA is obeying the laws that give citizens reasonable notice of projects."

Boren has voiced her strong opposition in recent weeks to two proposed projects in her district. The first would be a 29-mile southern extension of the Kickapoo Turnpike running from I-40 in Oklahoma City to I-35 near Purcell, which would run through the eastern part of Norman as well as through other nearby communities. The other project would be a 28-mile outer loop east-to-west connector from the I-44 Tri-City area, which includes Newcastle, Blanchard, and Tuttle, then east to I-35 and then east to I-40, running through Moore and Norman.

Both are part of the 15-year, $5 billion turnpike expansion plan called ACCESS Oklahoma.

- https://journalrecord.com/2022/04/29/attorneys-norman-lawmaker-weigh-in-on-turnpike-plans/

[TXtoNJ]

More ridiculous and misinformed articles:

NORMAN – The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority may have exceeded its authority in planning new pay roads that would affect Norman, Noble and Slaughterville, a Norman lawmaker and attorneys representing OTA opponents said Friday.

Previously expressed local objections to new turnpike plans became even more pronounced after the OTA filed credit applications with the Council of Bond Oversight for $200 million to advance plans.

Attorneys for Norman homeowners and members of the nonprofit Pike Off OTA filed formal objections asserting the OTA's lack of legal authority to build turnpikes in the area. They also cautioned that planned new roadways would threaten the property and livelihoods of thousands of Oklahomans.

Attorneys Robert Norman and Elaine Dowling asked the Bond Oversight Council to suspend authorizing bonds or any other financing until a legal interpretation is rendered of statutes that the OTA claims authorize the project.

"The OTA may only construct and operate turnpikes in locations specifically authorized by statute. There are 35 possible turnpike locations specified in statute; however, the turnpike (that) Access Oklahoma would put through east Norman, Noble, and Slaughterville is not authorized by any of the 35 possibilities,"  Dowling said.

In a release, Norman also pointed out that the authorizing statute for an "East-West connector"  planned to run along the northern edge of Norman would be subject to specific bonding requirements put in place by the Legislature in 1987, and that the OTA's Access Oklahoma Plan would violate those requirements.

In a statement, state Sen. Mary Boren, D-Norman, said she hopes the Council of Bond Oversight will consider the legal defects in the OTA's request for funding.

"It's important that we demand that the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority obey statutory authority when asking to spend $5 billion over the next 15 years on projects that would displace thousands of Oklahomans and hundreds of homes and businesses,"  Boren said. "Before we start making plans to build new turnpikes, we need to make sure OTA is obeying the laws that give citizens reasonable notice of projects."

Boren has voiced her strong opposition in recent weeks to two proposed projects in her district. The first would be a 29-mile southern extension of the Kickapoo Turnpike running from I-40 in Oklahoma City to I-35 near Purcell, which would run through the eastern part of Norman as well as through other nearby communities. The other project would be a 28-mile outer loop east-to-west connector from the I-44 Tri-City area, which includes Newcastle, Blanchard, and Tuttle, then east to I-35 and then east to I-40, running through Moore and Norman.

Both are part of the 15-year, $5 billion turnpike expansion plan called ACCESS Oklahoma.

- https://journalrecord.com/2022/04/29/attorneys-norman-lawmaker-weigh-in-on-turnpike-plans/

Given that the OTA thread on OKC Talk is pretty dead, I'd imagine that this is small, relatively well-funded, loud, but ultimately ignorable opposition.

[kernals12]

More ridiculous and misinformed articles:

NORMAN – The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority may have exceeded its authority in planning new pay roads that would affect Norman, Noble and Slaughterville, a Norman lawmaker and attorneys representing OTA opponents said Friday.

Previously expressed local objections to new turnpike plans became even more pronounced after the OTA filed credit applications with the Council of Bond Oversight for $200 million to advance plans.

Attorneys for Norman homeowners and members of the nonprofit Pike Off OTA filed formal objections asserting the OTA's lack of legal authority to build turnpikes in the area. They also cautioned that planned new roadways would threaten the property and livelihoods of thousands of Oklahomans.

Attorneys Robert Norman and Elaine Dowling asked the Bond Oversight Council to suspend authorizing bonds or any other financing until a legal interpretation is rendered of statutes that the OTA claims authorize the project.

"The OTA may only construct and operate turnpikes in locations specifically authorized by statute. There are 35 possible turnpike locations specified in statute; however, the turnpike (that) Access Oklahoma would put through east Norman, Noble, and Slaughterville is not authorized by any of the 35 possibilities,"  Dowling said.

In a release, Norman also pointed out that the authorizing statute for an "East-West connector"  planned to run along the northern edge of Norman would be subject to specific bonding requirements put in place by the Legislature in 1987, and that the OTA's Access Oklahoma Plan would violate those requirements.

In a statement, state Sen. Mary Boren, D-Norman, said she hopes the Council of Bond Oversight will consider the legal defects in the OTA's request for funding.

"It's important that we demand that the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority obey statutory authority when asking to spend $5 billion over the next 15 years on projects that would displace thousands of Oklahomans and hundreds of homes and businesses,"  Boren said. "Before we start making plans to build new turnpikes, we need to make sure OTA is obeying the laws that give citizens reasonable notice of projects."

Boren has voiced her strong opposition in recent weeks to two proposed projects in her district. The first would be a 29-mile southern extension of the Kickapoo Turnpike running from I-40 in Oklahoma City to I-35 near Purcell, which would run through the eastern part of Norman as well as through other nearby communities. The other project would be a 28-mile outer loop east-to-west connector from the I-44 Tri-City area, which includes Newcastle, Blanchard, and Tuttle, then east to I-35 and then east to I-40, running through Moore and Norman.

Both are part of the 15-year, $5 billion turnpike expansion plan called ACCESS Oklahoma.

- https://journalrecord.com/2022/04/29/attorneys-norman-lawmaker-weigh-in-on-turnpike-plans/

Given that the OTA thread on OKC Talk is pretty dead, I'd imagine that this is small, relatively well-funded, loud, but ultimately ignorable opposition.

That's the case for almost all highway expansion projects. The real killer is, with very few exceptions, cost.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^^ yeah but do other cities have a news network that just comes out with a new article every. Single. Fucking. Day about each person who might lose their home?

Here's another one: https://kfor.com/news/local/family-fears-planned-turnpike-will-cut-through-their-farmland/

Most of this crap is coming from KFOR. I'm actually considering calling them and asking them about this.

[Scott5114]

Do it. Let me know what sort of high and mighty response you get.

Bonus points if you can work the phrase "ain't nobody got time for that" into the conversation. (That meme also originated from KFOR.)

[Plutonic Panda]

Do it. Let me know what sort of high and mighty response you get.

Bonus points if you can work the phrase "ain't nobody got time for that" into the conversation. (That meme also originated from KFOR.)

Lol. I remember seeing that on YouTube and realizing it was from KFOR.

I probably will tomorrow. I'm trying to think of how to word it so I don't sound like I am wanting an argument. That tends to be problematic with me.

[Plutonic Panda]

From the Oklahoman:

Pike Off, a nonprofit formed to fight the $5 billion ACCESS Oklahoma toll road expansion plan, is seeking to block progress of a $200 million line of credit being sought by the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority to start engineering and property acquisition.

The Council of Bond Oversight, chaired by Oklahoma City broker Mark Beffort, is scheduled Wednesday to review the line of credit with Wells Fargo. The council also will be tasked with reviewing the Turnpike Authority's proposed $5 billion, 15-year ACCESS Oklahoma bond package.

In a lawsuit filed Monday in Cleveland County, attorneys Elaine Dowling and Robert Norman charge that much of the south extension turnpike that would connect to Interstate 35 in Purcell is not among 35 corridors approved by lawmakers in 1987. Lawmakers killed an effort by the Turnpike Authority to do such an extension when it was proposed in 1999.

OU professor Amy Cerato, a member of Pike Off, was among speakers at a rally held in March at the state Capitol.
Similar issues are raised with an east-west connector turnpike north of Norman. The lawsuit seeks an injunction by the court to require studies be completed before work begins and declaration that the south extension corridors are not allowed by statute.

"I don't believe Oklahoma Turnpike Authority should be moving forward with construction of either of the turnpikes that impact the city of Norman,"  Dowling said. "Neither turnpike is within their statutory authority. The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority may only build turnpikes authorized by the state Legislature and to do them as authorized."  

More:Homes, businesses in danger as legislator pushes for turnpike expansion near Lake Arcadia?

The legal filings also indicate the Turnpike Authority's application before the Council of Bond Oversight incorrectly indicates the work to be funded with the line of credit do not face any pending lawsuits.

Pike Off, a nonprofit opposing the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority's plans for new toll roads south of Oklahoma City, argues portions of the south extension shown in this map do not follow the authorized corridors listed in state statutes.
Transportation spokeswoman Brenda Perry confirmed the Turnpike Authority has received a copy of the petition and is evaluating it.

Beffort on Tuesday said he was studying the application but cautioned the counsel is not a legislative body that can decide if a turnpike should be built or whether a project should be financed.

"I don't anticipate us voting on the legitimacy of the turnpike,"  Beffort said. "Typically, our council will review the structure, make sure it's competitively bid, meets certain guidelines and meets all of the approval process."  


Lawyers for Pike Off argue the Council of Bond Oversight is tasked with determining whether debt is being incurred for authorized public functions or purposes and that the south extension turnpike is not authorized by statute and is not an authorized public function.

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The Turnpike Authority has yet to say how many homes will be acquired – by eminent domain, if necessary – to build the south extension turnpikes. A count by Pike Off shows more than 600 families will lose their homes. That count does not include dozens of rural and business properties also to be acquired.


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Michael Nash, president of Pike Off, said he wants to know whether the Turnpike Authority will slow down to wait for a ruling on the lawsuit or whether it will accelerate its work to "outpace the judicial system."  

"We are about to learn a lot about our state government tomorrow,"  Nash said. "We will learn how much the OTA cares about being faithful to Oklahoma Law. We will learn if the Council of Bond Oversight cares about making the decisions that are right, or making the decisions that are expected."  

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2022/05/04/oklahoma-turnpike-expansion-plan-financing-face-court-challenge/9630604002/

[Bobby5280]

That figure of 600 homes lost is just plain bullshit. It's not difficult to compare the proposed paths of both the East to West Connector and the Southern extension of the Kickapoo Turnpike and then look at satellite imagery from Google Earth/Maps. There is not nearly that many homes in the paths of those two turnpikes.

I guess they make up that "600 homes" figure because it sounds so much more dire than (at most) a few dozen homes.

[rte66man]

That figure of 600 homes lost is just plain bullshit. It's not difficult to compare the proposed paths of both the East to West Connector and the Southern extension of the Kickapoo Turnpike and then look at satellite imagery from Google Earth/Maps. There is not nearly that many homes in the paths of those two turnpikes.

I guess they make up that "600 homes" figure because it sounds so much more dire than (at most) a few dozen homes.

Since when has any group opposing anything resorted to the truth?

[kphoger]

Is there any footnote trail saying where the 600 figure actually came from?

[Plutonic Panda]

Minor set back but hopefully the courts throw the lawsuits out: https://okcfox.com/news/local/ota-turnpike-vote-norman-pikeoff-project-roads-oklahoma-infrastructure-funding-bond-200-million-elaine-dowling-amy-cerato

[Plutonic Panda]

Some good PR on this:

https://www.thelostogle.com/2022/05/05/lost-ogle-show-the-case-for-the-turnpike-w-ota-deputy-director-joe-echelle/

[Plutonic Panda]

Well here's some more good news:

The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority is proceeding with plans to begin work, including buying properties, for a disputed toll road expansion after being told it could not fund the work with a $200 million line of credit due to pending lawsuits.

The Turnpike Authority has yet to disclose how many properties will be acquired for its $5 billion ACCESS Oklahoma expansion plan, but plans show more than 600 homes will need to be acquired and destroyed just for extensions planned between south Oklahoma City and Norman.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2022/05/07/oklahoma-turnpike-authority-toll-road-expansion-norman-okc-lawsuits/9674226002/

[Plutonic Panda]

Is there any footnote trail saying where the 600 figure actually came from?

Here's a hyperlink quote from an Oklahoman article:

but plans show more than 600 homes will need to be acquired and destroyed just for extensions planned between south Oklahoma City and Norman.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2022/05/07/oklahoma-turnpike-authority-toll-road-expansion-norman-okc-lawsuits/9674226002/

If you click on that hyperlink(I don't know how to create a hyperlink embedded in text) it takes you to this article: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2022/03/30/norman-oklahoma-turnpike-authority-residents-address-expansion-plan/7208064001/

In it, another hyperlink that's says this:

plans to destroy hundreds of homes to make way for new toll roads.

Click on that hyperlink it takes you to this article: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2022/03/13/oklahoma-turnpike-authority-eminent-domain-powers-hard-challenge-ota-access-expansion/6940416001/

That says this

Dozens, if not hundreds, of homeowners and businesses are likely to be displaced, forcibly if necessary, to make way for new turnpikes in south Oklahoma City, Norman and elsewhere despite assurances the roads are planned for largely undeveloped corridors.

You can't make this shit up. Top notch reporting there. Oh, and not a single shred of any sort of evidence to back up those numbers in any of those articles.

[Scott5114]

I think the '600' number was invented by Mary Boren and nobody has bothered to look into where she got it or if it's true or not. Because OKC media.

(I don't know how to create a hyperlink embedded in text)

Like so:

Code Select Expand

[url=fttps://link.to.website.com/]Link text to be displayed goes here[/url]

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ thanks for that. I was sure it was something easy I was lazy to look it up lol.

[Plutonic Panda]

So just a quick update to this and what I've found.

Since being VERY vocal about these projects I've received two death threats and probably had dozens if not many more people block me. The two groups I know of kicked me out or told me not to post again unless I had something to support their cause. I've been talking to one of the people on Facebook messenger, Micheal Nash who has made questionable claims but I'm engaging and arguing in good faith. I've even made a couple devils advocate arguments for him.

I've tried contacting KFOR. The news desk lady has transferred me to the news director twice. First last week he didn't return my call. Tried again today and it was a busy tone. I'll try again tomorrow.

Micheal Nash and others have made claims like over 600 homes destroyed, no environmental studies being done, anger over no long term planning, and the lack of evidence to show these roads are needed. All of these points are either malarkey, knee jerking fear mongering, or borderline untruthful and I'll explain why based on what I've discovered.

1, regarding the 600+ homes issue. My guess is they took the map showing the potential routes and looked at all the homes inside the shaded area. I don't have my computer with me at the moment just my mobile phone and I'm not going to count every property in the shaded area, but it isn't hard to see that you could probably come up with a couple hundred properties, commercial and residential, for the 3 new proposed turnpikes in the south metro. I wouldn't be surprised if they went over every building that was in the shaded area in the entire plan and came up with the 600 number as I could believe that.

For the sake of argument let's say there are 600 homes in the shaded areas for the south OKC turnpikes, the final proposed ROW will be anywhere from 300-600 feet at the most and what's shown is a 1500 foot wide corridor where final alignments will be chosen. So there's no real way to tell how many homes and buildings will be needed. It wouldn't entirely be bad to say a few hundred properties may be needed but throw 600 number out there and not even add a disclaimer that it likely won't be near this much or these numbers are going to be refined is bad reporting. KFOR and NewsOk are the main culprits. Steve plays the part of being pro urbanist and anti car yet lives in the far flung suburbs and drives everywhere.

2 They are doing environmental studies and will get more into that once final alignments are chosen. How do I know? I've been talking to the program director for these projects. I must be special right! Haha I wish. The number to call is on the website. Collin is a very nice guy and will call you back pretty quickly. He even remembered me when I sent an e-mail awhile back suggesting sand filters to mitigate pollution concerns and they're going to consider things like wildlife over and under crossings. So the "they aren't doing environmental impact statements"  is a bunch of bull.

3. They are doing long term planning. They've tried to do long term planning. Now this is where some of the more experienced members on this board might want to chime in and lend me a hand as I'll be attending meetings and attempting to meet or send documents to the news director at KFOR. From what i understand these alignments were in fact studied by Norman itself along with ACOG and ODOT until citizens in Norman started complaining and the city pulled out. ACOG AND ODOT kept moving forward until ultimately pulling the plug did identify the need for a loop running along northern Norman and southeast. I haven't been able to find a map but any additional information or corrections would be appreciated.

There's also a congressional lawmaker around the north east part of Edmond who is trying to get a bill passed to open up a future expansion north continuing the Kickapoo to around Guthrie. This of course is being weaponized by the oppositions off the south turnpike groups trying to scare and rile people up that way to gain more support I guess. Well, even the author of the bill said it won't happen for 15+ plus years until this current plan is completed and it contradicts the oppositions complaints of them not having warning due to no long term planning. Rhetorical question obviously but why oppose a long term planning bill then?

4. The lack of evidence to show they are needed. I do agree the OTA should do more to make the case but I believe they have and given the growth in the metro it is important to plan for these corridors so they don't become gridlocked surface arterials. I also think these are studies that will be had once more information comes out and the opposition is jumping the gun on purpose just try and get this shut down. They don't want to see the proof that these are needed because that's one more hole in their argument.

PS, my debates with Micheal Nash have been civil and he's been a nice guy to talk to even though he opposes these roads. I think it's a tad hypocritical of him telling me this

You shall always do as you're told ... No questions asked. I'll keep that in mind

In private message when I've been either kicked out of his group or told not to post unless it's pro anti access Oklahoma. I say it's one or the other because one group kicked me out and the other asked me not to post.

Anyways sorry for the long post. I'm passionate about the development of Oklahoma and I want to see these roads built. I can understand some points against it but all things considered I support them. I like to have an open mind so I'm always open for discussion. Those opposing this don't seem to want that.

PPS, sorry for any typos or confusing wording. I'm tired as hell but I've been meaning to post this. Any confusion or sources needed to be cited just ask and I'll fix it.

[Bobby5280]

With the East to West Connector Turnpike the biggest impact to existing structures, by far, would be the complex of industrial buildings next to I-44 in Newcastle. La Luna Cantina & Grill is in the expansion path, as are 26 metal buildings. All of that would have to be cleared by the complex Y interchange added to a very modified OK-37/I-44 interchange. That's the biggest hit to existing properties. Everything else East of there is minor by comparison.

There's a couple homes on Portland Ave on the SW side of the Canadian River that might have to be cleared. Then the turnpike crosses the river. On the other side the turnpike would run parallel to West Indian Hills Road on its North side. Hammer Construction is the only building directly in the turnpike's path between the Canadian River and I-35. There's a farm building next to the river, whose access might be cut off by the turnpike.

The proposed 5-level stack interchange at I-35 would affect maybe half a dozen buildings on the NE & SE corners of the interchange. Timber Creek Fellowship Church and a cluster of other buildings on the SE corner looks like they would be spared.

East of I-35 the East to West Connector alignment shifts to the South Side of West Indian Hills Road. I count only the in neighborhood of 50 homes that would have to be cleared between I-35 and the Kickapoo extension. And that's being a bit generous. That includes a couple big McMansions just East of the N Broadway intersection. Maybe the owners of those two huge homes are generating some of the opposition.

The Kickapoo Turnpike South Extension runs over even more sparsely developed area.

The only way these turnpike opponents could be coming up with a "600 homes destroyed" estimate, other than just plain lying, is basing that guess off of possible future home construction in the area. Some jackass could always pack in a few densely packed housing subdivisions in the way of the future turnpike paths. But good luck with any speculative projects like that. Our nation's grossly over-priced real estate market is extremely into bubble territory. It's even worse than the insanity of the mid 2000's. The government is being forced to crank up interest rates and those interest hikes are going to keep coming while the price gouging on various things continues. Anyone looking to build a bunch of homes in the path of a proposed turnpike on purely speculative terms might end up losing his ass. He won't have any buyers, not with mortgage rates rising above 5%, 6% or even 7% in the near future. We have a major real estate market downturn coming. It is inevitable.

[kphoger]

regarding the 600+ homes issue. My guess is they took the map showing the potential routes and looked at all the homes inside the shaded area. I don't have my computer with me at the moment just my mobile phone and I'm not going to count every property in the shaded area, but it isn't hard to see that you could probably come up with a couple hundred properties, commercial and residential, for the 3 new proposed turnpikes in the south metro. I wouldn't be surprised if they went over every building that was in the shaded area in the entire plan and came up with the 600 number as I could believe that.

The only way these turnpike opponents could be coming up with a "600 homes destroyed" estimate, other than just plain lying, is basing that guess off of possible future home construction in the area.

|Bobby5280|:  Do you not think the theory put forth by |Plutonic Panda| is a possibility?

[JMoses24]

I live 4 miles north of the proposed East-West connector. It will cause a major uptick in traffic in south OKC/Moore when they build it, especially if people choose to shunpike on South 134th and South 149th. For me personally, that becomes problematic because there are still areas with no sidewalks in this section of south OKC, which means there's added risk for me whenever I leave my apartment.

Is it needed? Given that I-240 has literally nowhere to expand to in south OKC, some sort of outer bypass is probably needed. Doesn't mean I have to like it...and in this case, given the unintended consequences, I don't.

[Bobby5280]

Do you not think the theory put forth by |Plutonic Panda| is a possibility?

No. The 600 homes destroyed claim is not plausible at all. You can literally look at the proposed turnpike map on the OTA's Access Oklahoma page and compare that alongside Google Earth/Maps imagery. There is nowhere near that many existing homes in the paths of the proposed turnpikes. Fewer than 100 existing buildings would be affected by the East-to-West Connector. And that's the most urban of the two proposed turnpikes in the OKC area.

Like I said earlier, the biggest negative impact by far will be that complex of industrial buildings and one restaurant on the East side of the I-44/OK-37 interchange in Newcastle. All of those properties would be wiped out by that big new interchange. The rest of the effects are going to be relatively minor. East of I-35 around 3 or 4 dozen middle class or lower middle class homes would be cleared. And two big homes for rich people. It's not hundreds of homes.

I live 4 miles north of the proposed East-West connector. It will cause a major uptick in traffic in south OKC/Moore when they build it, especially if people choose to shunpike on South 134th and South 149th.

Anyone driving to/from Tulsa looking to shunpike around the Kickapoo Turnpike and East to West Connector can just stay on I-44, like they have to do now.

[sprjus4]

^ Exactly. I'm not buying how a new toll road will cause people to "shunpike"  it. They'll just continue to take existing routes. It's not going to divert people onto local roads around it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Do you not think the theory put forth by |Plutonic Panda| is a possibility?

No. The 600 homes destroyed claim is not plausible at all. You can literally look at the proposed turnpike map on the OTA's Access Oklahoma page and compare that alongside Google Earth/Maps imagery. There is nowhere near that many existing homes in the paths of the proposed turnpikes. Fewer than 100 existing buildings would be affected by the East-to-West Connector. And that's the most urban of the two proposed turnpikes in the OKC area.

Like I said earlier, the biggest negative impact by far will be that complex of industrial buildings and one restaurant on the East side of the I-44/OK-37 interchange in Newcastle. All of those properties would be wiped out by that big new interchange. The rest of the effects are going to be relatively minor. East of I-35 around 3 or 4 dozen middle class or lower middle class homes would be cleared. And two big homes for rich people. It's not hundreds of homes.

I live 4 miles north of the proposed East-West connector. It will cause a major uptick in traffic in south OKC/Moore when they build it, especially if people choose to shunpike on South 134th and South 149th.

Anyone driving to/from Tulsa looking to shunpike around the Kickapoo Turnpike and East to West Connector can just stay on I-44, like they have to do now.

Keep in mind, I'm playing the devils advocate there. I don't believe either there's 600 homes that will be lost due to this. Even the turnpike proposal in Tulsa is in a rural area. The Kilpatrick Widening and new ramps won't take any properties. The Turner turnpike widening and new interchanges don't look like they'll take any properties. I mean I counted 60 properties for the East to West connector and that was a quick fast count where I likely double counted MULTIPLE times because I skimmed through it.

This 600 number is complete bullshit. Micheal Nash has yet to respond. I'm calling KFOR tomorrow to see if I can get more information as they haven't returned my calls.