BASE-BALL

[mgk920]

^^^^^

The weird thing is that seemingly every stats site I view gives different numbers. From what I understand, that's always been a difficulty with Negro League statistics–they simply weren't maintained as religiously as MLB statistics were at the time and it's therefore hard to reconstruct them. Either way, there's no doubt that by all accounts Josh Gibson was an incredible hitter.

An article that I read a couple of days ago said that there are statisticians who have been going over pretty much everything that they can find over the past couple of decades, old scorebooks, newspapers, everything, reconstructing and confirming these stats.  Only recently was a box score found and confirmed to credit Mays with that 661st home run (which had previously only been rumored, even though he was known to have reached base 11 times that season) in 1948.

Mike

[rawmustard]

Legendary Dodgers manager Tommy Lasorda has died aged 93.

[kevinb1994]

Legendary Dodgers manager Tommy Lasorda has died aged 93.

Oof, may he RIP.

[jeffandnicole]

Legendary Dodgers manager Tommy Lasorda has died aged 93.

https://youtu.be/vX4L2LHGs98

He did not like the Philly Phanatic!

[Henry]

While I remain fiercely loyal to the Cubs, my daughter shares no such ties, instead bleeding Dodger blue, since she was born in L.A. But I'll let it slide in light of the passing of one of the greatest managers of all time. Although Lasorda's many antics got on my nerves a lot, at least he always made damn sure his team got it done when it mattered the most, and the Dodgers can thank him for those two World Series titles he gave them back in the 80s.

[triplemultiplex]

I'll always remember this moment from the 2001 All Star Game:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/Y4GbGVk9DKk

[rawmustard]

And now Hammerin' Hank has passed at 86.

[Henry]

Not surprisingly, Cooperstown has once again rejected Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling (who later asked to be removed from the ballot). It just goes to show how tainted the 90s really were, with those PEDs. And yes, it's sad to hear that the real home run king is now dead and gone.

[I-39]

Not surprisingly, Cooperstown has once again rejected Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling (who later asked to be removed from the ballot). It just goes to show how tainted the 90s really were, with those PEDs. And yes, it's sad to hear that the real home run king is now dead and gone.

Was Schilling ever implicated for using steroids, or is the reason he isn't in Cooperstown more related to his outspoken views?

[Takumi]

As far as I know, Schilling was never linked with PEDs.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

He's a borderline HOF player. 216 wins and an average ERA. He built his legacy as a great postseason player, certainly helped by being part of the two most dramatic/memorable postseason games of the last 20 years. I hate his views, but I don't like voters wanting to use that as part of their criteria; Barry Bonds being a legendary douche to the media probably doesn't help him any more than his PED use.

[brad2971]

He's a borderline HOF player. 216 wins and an average ERA. He built his legacy as a great postseason player, certainly helped by being part of the two most dramatic/memorable postseason games of the last 20 years. I hate his views, but I don't like voters wanting to use that as part of their criteria; Barry Bonds being a legendary douche to the media probably doesn't help him any more than his PED use.

Barry Bonds was vindicated by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals a few years back when that court threw out his conviction for obstruction of justice in the BALCO case. And that conviction came about because the prosecutors didn't like Barry going the roundabout way to an affirmative answer in grand jury testimony.

If MLB and its Hall of Fame are holding that against Barry, it wouldn't be the first time. After all, Shoeless Joe Jackson was vindicated by a Chicago jury in the Black Sox scandal, but that didn't stop MLB's long-standing grudge against him.

[Alps]

He's a borderline HOF player. 216 wins and an average ERA. He built his legacy as a great postseason player, certainly helped by being part of the two most dramatic/memorable postseason games of the last 20 years. I hate his views, but I don't like voters wanting to use that as part of their criteria; Barry Bonds being a legendary douche to the media probably doesn't help him any more than his PED use.

Barry Bonds was vindicated by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals a few years back when that court threw out his conviction for obstruction of justice in the BALCO case. And that conviction came about because the prosecutors didn't like Barry going the roundabout way to an affirmative answer in grand jury testimony.

If MLB and its Hall of Fame are holding that against Barry, it wouldn't be the first time. After all, Shoeless Joe Jackson was vindicated by a Chicago jury in the Black Sox scandal, but that didn't stop MLB's long-standing grudge against him.

There is very little doubt that Barroid was a user, regardless of court cases. Schilling... IMO his playing career deserves inclusion, and since he wasn't that outspokenly awful during his career, he likely makes it at some point.

[I-39]

He's a borderline HOF player. 216 wins and an average ERA. He built his legacy as a great postseason player, certainly helped by being part of the two most dramatic/memorable postseason games of the last 20 years. I hate his views, but I don't like voters wanting to use that as part of their criteria; Barry Bonds being a legendary douche to the media probably doesn't help him any more than his PED use.

What? You mean you weren't a fan of Bonds on Bonds back in the day on ESPN?

[Max Rockatansky]

He's a borderline HOF player. 216 wins and an average ERA. He built his legacy as a great postseason player, certainly helped by being part of the two most dramatic/memorable postseason games of the last 20 years. I hate his views, but I don't like voters wanting to use that as part of their criteria; Barry Bonds being a legendary douche to the media probably doesn't help him any more than his PED use.

Barry Bonds was vindicated by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals a few years back when that court threw out his conviction for obstruction of justice in the BALCO case. And that conviction came about because the prosecutors didn't like Barry going the roundabout way to an affirmative answer in grand jury testimony.

If MLB and its Hall of Fame are holding that against Barry, it wouldn't be the first time. After all, Shoeless Joe Jackson was vindicated by a Chicago jury in the Black Sox scandal, but that didn't stop MLB's long-standing grudge against him.

Vindicated or not the dude was an obvious hard core steroid user for the second half of his career.  You don't get a giant head like that from working out with a personal trainer.  I would say that I believe his career before the obvious steroid use was hall of fame worthy. 

[Takumi]

He's a borderline HOF player. 216 wins and an average ERA. He built his legacy as a great postseason player, certainly helped by being part of the two most dramatic/memorable postseason games of the last 20 years. I hate his views, but I don't like voters wanting to use that as part of their criteria; Barry Bonds being a legendary douche to the media probably doesn't help him any more than his PED use.

He also had over 3,000 strikeouts, a threshold that normally is a lock for the Hall. So far, only he and Clemens have reached the threshold without being inducted yet. (CC Sabathia isn't eligible yet, and Justin Verlander is obviously still active.) I agree with you and Alps that his views, while, uh, questionable at best, aren't necessarily tied to his playing career, though (and I know I'm treading on thin ice here, sorry mods) there were reports of writers asking the Hall to remove him from their ballots after the Capitol riots, and, as one writer said, "Mariano Rivera is a Trump supporter and was still elected unanimously."

[webny99]

I'm going to post this here because it's relevant to this discussion and I found it interesting, even as someone who knows comparatively little about baseball (relevant discussion begins with 25:47 remaining):

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wait-was-the-green-bay-field-goal-the-right-call/

[74/171FAN]

Schilling... IMO his playing career deserves inclusion, and since he wasn't that outspokenly awful during his career, he likely makes it at some point.

He's a borderline HOF player. 216 wins and an average ERA. He built his legacy as a great postseason player, certainly helped by being part of the two most dramatic/memorable postseason games of the last 20 years. I hate his views, but I don't like voters wanting to use that as part of their criteria; Barry Bonds being a legendary douche to the media probably doesn't help him any more than his PED use.

He also had over 3,000 strikeouts, a threshold that normally is a lock for the Hall. So far, only he and Clemens have reached the threshold without being inducted yet. (CC Sabathia isn't eligible yet, and Justin Verlander is obviously still active.) I agree with you and Alps that his views, while, uh, questionable at best, aren't necessarily tied to his playing career, though (and I know I'm treading on thin ice here, sorry mods) there were reports of writers asking the Hall to remove him from their ballots after the Capitol riots, and, as one writer said, "Mariano Rivera is a Trump supporter and was still elected unanimously."

I agree that Schilling deserves inclusion based on his playing career.   His playing career was close to John Smoltz as a starter IMO, and he definitely had much more postseason success (since his teams won the World Series 3 times (DBacks in 2001, Red Sox in 2004 and 2007).

Beyond political opinions, I wonder if there may be some Yankee fans still against his inclusion because they may not believe that the bloody sock in the 2004 ALCS was real. 

Considering that Ty Cobb is in the Hall of Fame, I expect a Veterans Committee to put Schilling in eventually.

[Henry]

Thursday is Opening Day, with a full slate of games planned:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/schedule/_/date/20210401

(My Cubs are hosting the Pirates that afternoon.)

[Alps]

Schilling... IMO his playing career deserves inclusion, and since he wasn't that outspokenly awful during his career, he likely makes it at some point.

He's a borderline HOF player. 216 wins and an average ERA. He built his legacy as a great postseason player, certainly helped by being part of the two most dramatic/memorable postseason games of the last 20 years. I hate his views, but I don't like voters wanting to use that as part of their criteria; Barry Bonds being a legendary douche to the media probably doesn't help him any more than his PED use.

He also had over 3,000 strikeouts, a threshold that normally is a lock for the Hall. So far, only he and Clemens have reached the threshold without being inducted yet. (CC Sabathia isn't eligible yet, and Justin Verlander is obviously still active.) I agree with you and Alps that his views, while, uh, questionable at best, aren't necessarily tied to his playing career, though (and I know I'm treading on thin ice here, sorry mods) there were reports of writers asking the Hall to remove him from their ballots after the Capitol riots, and, as one writer said, "Mariano Rivera is a Trump supporter and was still elected unanimously."

I agree that Schilling deserves inclusion based on his playing career.   His playing career was close to John Smoltz as a starter IMO, and he definitely had much more postseason success (since his teams won the World Series 3 times (DBacks in 2001, Red Sox in 2004 and 2007).

Beyond political opinions, I wonder if there may be some Yankee fans still against his inclusion because they may not believe that the bloody sock in the 2004 ALCS was real. 

Considering that Ty Cobb is in the Hall of Fame, I expect a Veterans Committee to put Schilling in eventually.

The bloody sock was real, but his public statements do affect a certain number of voters, and that may be just enough to keep him out. At least for now. To me, I recall him paired with Randy Johnson, and Randy was unquestionably more formidable.

[NWI_Irish96]

IT'S OPENING DAY!

White Sox are opening in Anaheim, where it's expected to be 79 degrees at the 7pm PDT first pitch.

Meanwhile, that other Chicago team opens at home, where it's expected to be 38 degrees at the 1pm CDT first pitch.

[ET21]

Time for the AL MVP to defend his title

[Henry]

IT'S OPENING DAY!

White Sox are opening in Anaheim, where it's expected to be 79 degrees at the 7pm PDT first pitch.

Meanwhile, that other Chicago team opens at home, where it's expected to be 38 degrees at the 1pm CDT first pitch.

Actually, the White Sox would be referred to as "that other Chicago team", because the Cubs are far more popular everywhere, with the exception of the South and (possibly) West Sides.

[CtrlAltDel]

IT'S OPENING DAY!

White Sox are opening in Anaheim, where it's expected to be 79 degrees at the 7pm PDT first pitch.

Meanwhile, that other Chicago team opens at home, where it's expected to be 38 degrees at the 1pm CDT first pitch.

Actually, the White Sox would be referred to as "that other Chicago team", because the Cubs are far more popular everywhere, with the exception of the South and (possibly) West Sides.

That's right. The White Sox are that "that other Chicago team," even with respect to the Chicago White Sox. 

[ET21]

IT'S OPENING DAY!

White Sox are opening in Anaheim, where it's expected to be 79 degrees at the 7pm PDT first pitch.

Meanwhile, that other Chicago team opens at home, where it's expected to be 38 degrees at the 1pm CDT first pitch.

Actually, the White Sox would be referred to as "that other Chicago team", because the Cubs are far more popular everywhere, with the exception of the South and (possibly) West Sides.

That's right. The White Sox are that "that other Chicago team," even with respect to the Chicago White Sox. 

Its ok, the Cubs will be "that other Chicago team" when we eventually win the World Series with this core