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Lloyd Expressway/IN-62/IN-66

Started by evvroads, June 23, 2021, 12:44:41 AM

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silverback1065

Quote from: SSR_317 on April 09, 2022, 07:12:34 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 01, 2022, 10:54:55 AM
Never say never on the side roads. they could do roundabout interchanges there where Lloyd bridges over (or dives under) the teardrop roundabouts. In Fishers Allisonville and 96th will be an at grade roundabout and both roads get 21k+ cars a day. I could see this working better than the displaced lefts i heard they were proposing there in the past.
I know this is off-topic for this particular thread, but this is the first I've heard of any proposal to change the current 96th & Allisonville "Michigan Left" intersection at the border of Indianapolis & Fishers. Can you point me to a thread discussing this topic or a website for it? I live less than half a mile from there and occasionally traverse it as a pedestrian. Thanks in advance!

it was briefly mentioned in the "indiana notes" thread. here is a local news article on it:

https://www.wishtv.com/news/local-news/98m-project-includes-turning-michigan-left-at-96th-allisonville-into-roundabout/


cjw2001

Quote from: SSR_317 on April 09, 2022, 07:12:34 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 01, 2022, 10:54:55 AM
Never say never on the side roads. they could do roundabout interchanges there where Lloyd bridges over (or dives under) the teardrop roundabouts. In Fishers Allisonville and 96th will be an at grade roundabout and both roads get 21k+ cars a day. I could see this working better than the displaced lefts i heard they were proposing there in the past.
I know this is off-topic for this particular thread, but this is the first I've heard of any proposal to change the current 96th & Allisonville "Michigan Left" intersection at the border of Indianapolis & Fishers. Can you point me to a thread discussing this topic or a website for it? I live less than half a mile from there and occasionally traverse it as a pedestrian. Thanks in advance!
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7946.msg2708832#msg2708832

silverback1065

Quote from: jnewkirk77 on April 08, 2022, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: royo6022 on April 03, 2022, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on April 03, 2022, 12:15:39 AM
My 2 cents.

West to East:

- Remove access for Corbierre and Ingels. Dead end them at the expressway. Make them drive the 2.5 blocks to Barker.
- Take part of the Mead-Johnson parking lot on the north side of the road. Create a frontage road.
- Raise the Lloyd over St Josephs Street and place an urban style exit ramp that goes underneath the expressway.
- Remove the 10th, 11th and 12th Avenue access completely.
- Lose the grass median in the Mead-Johnson area.
- Keep the Lloyd elevated over Flagg and remove all access there. They can drive the 3 blocks to St Josephs to interchange. This will keep Flagg open to Ohio Street for pass through and fire safety.
- Elevate the Lloyd over Vann Avenue and make it an urban style ramps
- Remove Park Avenue Access. Park goers can use Vann to reach going forward. (2 blocks away)
- Place frontage roads in from Vann back to Stockwell Road and remove all Stockwell Road access to Lloyd.
- Bridge Fielding Road over the Lloyd and connect with Indiana Street, acquire and tear down closed Mitsubishi dealership. Force all Fielding traffic to go down to Green River to access Lloyd.
- Remove Brentwood access on both sides.
- Dead End Kimber Lane.
- Elevate the Lloyd over Burkhardt and put an urban style exit facility in
- Remove the strip mall entrance on north side and put in a frontage road that will serve as Indiana Ave. and provide connectivity with Burkhardt. (and give strip mall users a choice to access Lloyd)
- Elevate Lloyd over Cross Pointe and create urban style exit facility. Will serve as east entrance to same strip mall/retail center.

Most of these local streets that were allowed to keep their connectivity with the Lloyd seem to be the problem. Many of them dump directly into the right lane to merge.

Just getting rid of those would allow the speed limits to rise. I can't see people complaining because they have a major access to the Lloyd less than 3 blocks away in each case. And if it is more than 3 blocks a frontage road is put in.

If they still complain, then they really don't want the Lloyd to be better than it is today.

There is really no excuse for the lack of development on an interchange near St Joseph with the amount of space they already have. The empty space already looks bad and could be used to greatly reduce the congestion in the area. City would need to provide easier parking for events like the fall fest, should Wabash Ave. be shut out (which I agree with). My issue is mainly with Stockwell. I work very near the Morgan Ave. end of Stockwell and can speak from experience that it can get very busy during the day. I think Stockwell will need a double connection to Green River and to Vann Avenue in order to suffice for the amount of traffic moving through there during peak daytime hours.

The history of the development of the Lloyd Expressway is littered with stupid decisions and boneheaded planning. How many other highway projects in Indiana took 36 years from start to finish?  Construction of the "West Side Expressway" began in 1952, it opened in '56, and the remainder opened in '88.  And it's basically been under construction on some segment or another most years since then.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so damned stupid.  More money will be wasted again because the "fixes" don't work.  Just watch and see.

Isn't this INDOT's fault? wasn't the Lloyd always a state road? Wasn't it us 460 back then?

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: silverback1065 on April 11, 2022, 08:33:33 AM
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on April 08, 2022, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: royo6022 on April 03, 2022, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on April 03, 2022, 12:15:39 AM
My 2 cents.

West to East:

- Remove access for Corbierre and Ingels. Dead end them at the expressway. Make them drive the 2.5 blocks to Barker.
- Take part of the Mead-Johnson parking lot on the north side of the road. Create a frontage road.
- Raise the Lloyd over St Josephs Street and place an urban style exit ramp that goes underneath the expressway.
- Remove the 10th, 11th and 12th Avenue access completely.
- Lose the grass median in the Mead-Johnson area.
- Keep the Lloyd elevated over Flagg and remove all access there. They can drive the 3 blocks to St Josephs to interchange. This will keep Flagg open to Ohio Street for pass through and fire safety.
- Elevate the Lloyd over Vann Avenue and make it an urban style ramps
- Remove Park Avenue Access. Park goers can use Vann to reach going forward. (2 blocks away)
- Place frontage roads in from Vann back to Stockwell Road and remove all Stockwell Road access to Lloyd.
- Bridge Fielding Road over the Lloyd and connect with Indiana Street, acquire and tear down closed Mitsubishi dealership. Force all Fielding traffic to go down to Green River to access Lloyd.
- Remove Brentwood access on both sides.
- Dead End Kimber Lane.
- Elevate the Lloyd over Burkhardt and put an urban style exit facility in
- Remove the strip mall entrance on north side and put in a frontage road that will serve as Indiana Ave. and provide connectivity with Burkhardt. (and give strip mall users a choice to access Lloyd)
- Elevate Lloyd over Cross Pointe and create urban style exit facility. Will serve as east entrance to same strip mall/retail center.

Most of these local streets that were allowed to keep their connectivity with the Lloyd seem to be the problem. Many of them dump directly into the right lane to merge.

Just getting rid of those would allow the speed limits to rise. I can't see people complaining because they have a major access to the Lloyd less than 3 blocks away in each case. And if it is more than 3 blocks a frontage road is put in.

If they still complain, then they really don't want the Lloyd to be better than it is today.

There is really no excuse for the lack of development on an interchange near St Joseph with the amount of space they already have. The empty space already looks bad and could be used to greatly reduce the congestion in the area. City would need to provide easier parking for events like the fall fest, should Wabash Ave. be shut out (which I agree with). My issue is mainly with Stockwell. I work very near the Morgan Ave. end of Stockwell and can speak from experience that it can get very busy during the day. I think Stockwell will need a double connection to Green River and to Vann Avenue in order to suffice for the amount of traffic moving through there during peak daytime hours.

The history of the development of the Lloyd Expressway is littered with stupid decisions and boneheaded planning. How many other highway projects in Indiana took 36 years from start to finish?  Construction of the "West Side Expressway" began in 1952, it opened in '56, and the remainder opened in '88.  And it's basically been under construction on some segment or another most years since then.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so damned stupid.  More money will be wasted again because the "fixes" don't work.  Just watch and see.

Isn't this INDOT's fault? wasn't the Lloyd always a state road? Wasn't it us 460 back then?

I'm looking at the 1970 highway map and US 460 entered Evansville from the east on IN 62 and left to the west on IN 66, so no parts of the Lloyd were US 460, but the reverse segments of IN 62 and 66 are shown on the Lloyd the same as they are today.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

silverback1065

Quote from: cabiness42 on April 11, 2022, 09:05:15 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 11, 2022, 08:33:33 AM
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on April 08, 2022, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: royo6022 on April 03, 2022, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on April 03, 2022, 12:15:39 AM
My 2 cents.

West to East:

- Remove access for Corbierre and Ingels. Dead end them at the expressway. Make them drive the 2.5 blocks to Barker.
- Take part of the Mead-Johnson parking lot on the north side of the road. Create a frontage road.
- Raise the Lloyd over St Josephs Street and place an urban style exit ramp that goes underneath the expressway.
- Remove the 10th, 11th and 12th Avenue access completely.
- Lose the grass median in the Mead-Johnson area.
- Keep the Lloyd elevated over Flagg and remove all access there. They can drive the 3 blocks to St Josephs to interchange. This will keep Flagg open to Ohio Street for pass through and fire safety.
- Elevate the Lloyd over Vann Avenue and make it an urban style ramps
- Remove Park Avenue Access. Park goers can use Vann to reach going forward. (2 blocks away)
- Place frontage roads in from Vann back to Stockwell Road and remove all Stockwell Road access to Lloyd.
- Bridge Fielding Road over the Lloyd and connect with Indiana Street, acquire and tear down closed Mitsubishi dealership. Force all Fielding traffic to go down to Green River to access Lloyd.
- Remove Brentwood access on both sides.
- Dead End Kimber Lane.
- Elevate the Lloyd over Burkhardt and put an urban style exit facility in
- Remove the strip mall entrance on north side and put in a frontage road that will serve as Indiana Ave. and provide connectivity with Burkhardt. (and give strip mall users a choice to access Lloyd)
- Elevate Lloyd over Cross Pointe and create urban style exit facility. Will serve as east entrance to same strip mall/retail center.

Most of these local streets that were allowed to keep their connectivity with the Lloyd seem to be the problem. Many of them dump directly into the right lane to merge.

Just getting rid of those would allow the speed limits to rise. I can't see people complaining because they have a major access to the Lloyd less than 3 blocks away in each case. And if it is more than 3 blocks a frontage road is put in.

If they still complain, then they really don't want the Lloyd to be better than it is today.

There is really no excuse for the lack of development on an interchange near St Joseph with the amount of space they already have. The empty space already looks bad and could be used to greatly reduce the congestion in the area. City would need to provide easier parking for events like the fall fest, should Wabash Ave. be shut out (which I agree with). My issue is mainly with Stockwell. I work very near the Morgan Ave. end of Stockwell and can speak from experience that it can get very busy during the day. I think Stockwell will need a double connection to Green River and to Vann Avenue in order to suffice for the amount of traffic moving through there during peak daytime hours.

The history of the development of the Lloyd Expressway is littered with stupid decisions and boneheaded planning. How many other highway projects in Indiana took 36 years from start to finish?  Construction of the "West Side Expressway" began in 1952, it opened in '56, and the remainder opened in '88.  And it's basically been under construction on some segment or another most years since then.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so damned stupid.  More money will be wasted again because the "fixes" don't work.  Just watch and see.

Isn't this INDOT's fault? wasn't the Lloyd always a state road? Wasn't it us 460 back then?

I'm looking at the 1970 highway map and US 460 entered Evansville from the east on IN 62 and left to the west on IN 66, so no parts of the Lloyd were US 460, but the reverse segments of IN 62 and 66 are shown on the Lloyd the same as they are today.

So the Lloyd was always a state road then?  :hmmm: I wonder why it took to long to finish this thing and not even as a full limited access facility. Evansville seems to always get the shaft on these matters. Even Ft Wayne has better highways than Evansville.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: silverback1065 on April 11, 2022, 09:10:36 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 11, 2022, 09:05:15 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 11, 2022, 08:33:33 AM
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on April 08, 2022, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: royo6022 on April 03, 2022, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on April 03, 2022, 12:15:39 AM
My 2 cents.

West to East:

- Remove access for Corbierre and Ingels. Dead end them at the expressway. Make them drive the 2.5 blocks to Barker.
- Take part of the Mead-Johnson parking lot on the north side of the road. Create a frontage road.
- Raise the Lloyd over St Josephs Street and place an urban style exit ramp that goes underneath the expressway.
- Remove the 10th, 11th and 12th Avenue access completely.
- Lose the grass median in the Mead-Johnson area.
- Keep the Lloyd elevated over Flagg and remove all access there. They can drive the 3 blocks to St Josephs to interchange. This will keep Flagg open to Ohio Street for pass through and fire safety.
- Elevate the Lloyd over Vann Avenue and make it an urban style ramps
- Remove Park Avenue Access. Park goers can use Vann to reach going forward. (2 blocks away)
- Place frontage roads in from Vann back to Stockwell Road and remove all Stockwell Road access to Lloyd.
- Bridge Fielding Road over the Lloyd and connect with Indiana Street, acquire and tear down closed Mitsubishi dealership. Force all Fielding traffic to go down to Green River to access Lloyd.
- Remove Brentwood access on both sides.
- Dead End Kimber Lane.
- Elevate the Lloyd over Burkhardt and put an urban style exit facility in
- Remove the strip mall entrance on north side and put in a frontage road that will serve as Indiana Ave. and provide connectivity with Burkhardt. (and give strip mall users a choice to access Lloyd)
- Elevate Lloyd over Cross Pointe and create urban style exit facility. Will serve as east entrance to same strip mall/retail center.

Most of these local streets that were allowed to keep their connectivity with the Lloyd seem to be the problem. Many of them dump directly into the right lane to merge.

Just getting rid of those would allow the speed limits to rise. I can't see people complaining because they have a major access to the Lloyd less than 3 blocks away in each case. And if it is more than 3 blocks a frontage road is put in.

If they still complain, then they really don't want the Lloyd to be better than it is today.

There is really no excuse for the lack of development on an interchange near St Joseph with the amount of space they already have. The empty space already looks bad and could be used to greatly reduce the congestion in the area. City would need to provide easier parking for events like the fall fest, should Wabash Ave. be shut out (which I agree with). My issue is mainly with Stockwell. I work very near the Morgan Ave. end of Stockwell and can speak from experience that it can get very busy during the day. I think Stockwell will need a double connection to Green River and to Vann Avenue in order to suffice for the amount of traffic moving through there during peak daytime hours.

The history of the development of the Lloyd Expressway is littered with stupid decisions and boneheaded planning. How many other highway projects in Indiana took 36 years from start to finish?  Construction of the "West Side Expressway" began in 1952, it opened in '56, and the remainder opened in '88.  And it's basically been under construction on some segment or another most years since then.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so damned stupid.  More money will be wasted again because the "fixes" don't work.  Just watch and see.

Isn't this INDOT's fault? wasn't the Lloyd always a state road? Wasn't it us 460 back then?

I'm looking at the 1970 highway map and US 460 entered Evansville from the east on IN 62 and left to the west on IN 66, so no parts of the Lloyd were US 460, but the reverse segments of IN 62 and 66 are shown on the Lloyd the same as they are today.

So the Lloyd was always a state road then?  :hmmm: I wonder why it took to long to finish this thing and not even as a full limited access facility. Evansville seems to always get the shaft on these matters. Even Ft Wayne has better highways than Evansville.

I just went back to 1950 and it appears that for that year, the eastern leg of what is now the Lloyd was still IN 62 but from the west IN 66 appears to jog north (at St. Joseph Ave perhaps?) and follows IN 66 to US 41.

For both 1970 and 1950, INDOT doesn't have the rear of the map with the city detail maps available, so I'm interpreting what I'm seeing on the main map, so don't take what I'm saying as gospel.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Life in Paradise


[/quote]

Of note that I don't remember seeing in the original diagrams: It looks like they are going to 6-lane the Lloyd from Barker (where it currently changes from 6 to 4) to Rosenberger when they do the pavement replacement. They haven't officially announced their plans for the "phase 2" (Rosenberger to Posey Co Line) portion, but it also includes pavement replacement so it's highly probable they will 6-lane at least a portion of that also. Hopefully to University Pkwy. It wouldn't make sense to 6-lane it to Rosenberger and leave it there. Even Red Bank Rd would make more sense than ending the 6-lane at Rosenberger.
[/quote]
I would agree that it all needs to be 6 lanes (even to University of Southern Indiana), but I will accept this in that I didn't think that they would even spend the money to replace the two bridges (Tekoppel and railroad) with 6 lanes rather than the four lanes that they currently are.  The bridges are the one most expensive part of the widening, but I would hope that they reconsider going further.  ( I actually wanted a Highway 62 overpass spanning Rosenberger, since that road had to be built up on both sides to meet the highway, the road wouldn't have to go nearly as high to span it.

Life in Paradise

Quote from: cabiness42 on April 11, 2022, 09:43:07 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 11, 2022, 09:10:36 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 11, 2022, 09:05:15 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 11, 2022, 08:33:33 AM
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on April 08, 2022, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: royo6022 on April 03, 2022, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on April 03, 2022, 12:15:39 AM
My 2 cents.

West to East:

- Remove access for Corbierre and Ingels. Dead end them at the expressway. Make them drive the 2.5 blocks to Barker.
- Take part of the Mead-Johnson parking lot on the north side of the road. Create a frontage road.
- Raise the Lloyd over St Josephs Street and place an urban style exit ramp that goes underneath the expressway.
- Remove the 10th, 11th and 12th Avenue access completely.
- Lose the grass median in the Mead-Johnson area.
- Keep the Lloyd elevated over Flagg and remove all access there. They can drive the 3 blocks to St Josephs to interchange. This will keep Flagg open to Ohio Street for pass through and fire safety.
- Elevate the Lloyd over Vann Avenue and make it an urban style ramps
- Remove Park Avenue Access. Park goers can use Vann to reach going forward. (2 blocks away)
- Place frontage roads in from Vann back to Stockwell Road and remove all Stockwell Road access to Lloyd.
- Bridge Fielding Road over the Lloyd and connect with Indiana Street, acquire and tear down closed Mitsubishi dealership. Force all Fielding traffic to go down to Green River to access Lloyd.
- Remove Brentwood access on both sides.
- Dead End Kimber Lane.
- Elevate the Lloyd over Burkhardt and put an urban style exit facility in
- Remove the strip mall entrance on north side and put in a frontage road that will serve as Indiana Ave. and provide connectivity with Burkhardt. (and give strip mall users a choice to access Lloyd)
- Elevate Lloyd over Cross Pointe and create urban style exit facility. Will serve as east entrance to same strip mall/retail center.

Most of these local streets that were allowed to keep their connectivity with the Lloyd seem to be the problem. Many of them dump directly into the right lane to merge.

Just getting rid of those would allow the speed limits to rise. I can't see people complaining because they have a major access to the Lloyd less than 3 blocks away in each case. And if it is more than 3 blocks a frontage road is put in.

If they still complain, then they really don't want the Lloyd to be better than it is today.

There is really no excuse for the lack of development on an interchange near St Joseph with the amount of space they already have. The empty space already looks bad and could be used to greatly reduce the congestion in the area. City would need to provide easier parking for events like the fall fest, should Wabash Ave. be shut out (which I agree with). My issue is mainly with Stockwell. I work very near the Morgan Ave. end of Stockwell and can speak from experience that it can get very busy during the day. I think Stockwell will need a double connection to Green River and to Vann Avenue in order to suffice for the amount of traffic moving through there during peak daytime hours.

The history of the development of the Lloyd Expressway is littered with stupid decisions and boneheaded planning. How many other highway projects in Indiana took 36 years from start to finish?  Construction of the "West Side Expressway" began in 1952, it opened in '56, and the remainder opened in '88.  And it's basically been under construction on some segment or another most years since then.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so damned stupid.  More money will be wasted again because the "fixes" don't work.  Just watch and see.

Isn't this INDOT's fault? wasn't the Lloyd always a state road? Wasn't it us 460 back then?

I'm looking at the 1970 highway map and US 460 entered Evansville from the east on IN 62 and left to the west on IN 66, so no parts of the Lloyd were US 460, but the reverse segments of IN 62 and 66 are shown on the Lloyd the same as they are today.

So the Lloyd was always a state road then?  :hmmm: I wonder why it took to long to finish this thing and not even as a full limited access facility. Evansville seems to always get the shaft on these matters. Even Ft Wayne has better highways than Evansville.

I just went back to 1950 and it appears that for that year, the eastern leg of what is now the Lloyd was still IN 62 but from the west IN 66 appears to jog north (at St. Joseph Ave perhaps?) and follows IN 66 to US 41.

For both 1970 and 1950, INDOT doesn't have the rear of the map with the city detail maps available, so I'm interpreting what I'm seeing on the main map, so don't take what I'm saying as gospel.

Kudos to Ed, I'm with you on most of that.  I would also include some dedicated running exits along the Lloyd in Warrick County to run under Epworth to serve that and I-69, and even to Cross Point so that there could be an Urban overpass at Cross point, no change at I-69 except more lanes for entry/exit, and Epworth overpass of Hwy 66.

Before the Lloyd in the 1980s, Division Street between US41 and First Avenue was a city street.  Hwy 66 up US41 from first Kentucky Avenue/Fares to Diamond Ave "Expressway" and Hwy 662 turned up First Avenue-North to Virginia Street-East, then again rode US41 from Kentucky Ave/Fares to Morgan Avenue.  I still don't have the full reason why they had to switch routes through Evansville, but that's another complaint.

edwaleni

Indiana goes through the shifts in political power just like any other state.

Most of the political strength used to be in SE Indiana (from Madison to Lawrenceburg) due to its proximity to Cincy and the Ohio River.

The National Road brought population to the central part of Indiana, but it was the Wabash & Erie Canal and the railroads that immediately followed it that shifted most of the political power to central and northern Indiana.

When coal became in demand and the railroads were there to haul to the steel mills, the parts of NW and West Central Indiana acquired more clout.

That left Evansville.

Evansville was stuck because its commerce was more tied to the confluence of the Ohio and Mississippi and on to New Orleans. Later it was a stop for steamers to reach Cincy and Pittsburgh.

While Evansville does not reside next to the Wabash, its use as a route of commerce or electric power was relinquished by the TVA many years ago.

And while the Wabash & Erie Canal was extended to Evansville in the 1850's, railroads had already started to make it obsolete.

With the geography east of Evansville not conducive to easy railroad building and no rare metals to underwrite the work, this left the town looking more south than north for its economic well being.

Because of this SW Indiana just didn't have much clout in Indiana politics through the years.  Even when the town of New Harmony wanted a bridge built after WW2, Illinois said yes, but Indiana power brokers kept blocking the bill (several times). The bridge ended up being built with private funds. Several attempts to improve Evansville connectivity were dismissed. "use US-41, go through Terre Haute"

This pattern of reduced clout (IMHO) made any serious highway or infrastructure improvements in the Evansville Metro harder to come by unless the Feds footed most of the bill.

Fortunately the pendulum is starting to swing a little with I-69 and hopefully this will open the coffers more to improve not just the Lloyd, but other means of connectivity with Evansville proper.




silverback1065

#34
Still not clear on this, was the Lloyd always a state road? or was it a city job that was taken over by the state? Also does anyone call Diamond Ave. an expressway?

evvroads

Quote from: silverback1065 on April 11, 2022, 04:37:07 PM
Still not clear on this, was the Lloyd always a state road? or was it a city job that was taken over by the state? Also does anyone call Diamond Ave. an expressway?

I believe it was always a state road. Prior to the 50s, SR 62 followed present-day Broadway Ave to Barker Ave and then north. Sometime in the 50s, the state constructed the "Pennsylvania Expressway" between St Phillips Rd in Posey County and Fulton Ave (including the bridge over Pigeon Creek); SR 62 was rerouted to that alignment then. The rest of the expressway started construction in 1983. This archived article says the Indiana Governor was the one "at the controls of the bulldozer" at the groundbreaking, which I think would be odd if it were only a city project: https://web.archive.org/web/20070927212427/http://web.courierpress.com/features/150/hist1116.htm To be clear, Division St (and Pennsylvania St) were city roads prior to their conversion to "expressways."

No one I know calls Diamond Ave an expressway.

edwaleni

Quote from: silverback1065 on April 11, 2022, 04:37:07 PM
Still not clear on this, was the Lloyd always a state road? or was it a city job that was taken over by the state? Also does anyone call Diamond Ave. an expressway?

The Lloyd was built on what was Pennsylvania Street. Before they renamed the streets after states, it was 4th Street.

evvroads

Quote from: edwaleni on April 11, 2022, 10:18:03 PM
Before they renamed the streets after states, it was 4th Street.

Which happened when Evansville annexed Lamasco... in 1857.

Life in Paradise

Quote from: evvroads on April 11, 2022, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 11, 2022, 04:37:07 PM
Still not clear on this, was the Lloyd always a state road? or was it a city job that was taken over by the state? Also does anyone call Diamond Ave. an expressway?

I believe it was always a state road. Prior to the 50s, SR 62 followed present-day Broadway Ave to Barker Ave and then north. Sometime in the 50s, the state constructed the "Pennsylvania Expressway" between St Phillips Rd in Posey County and Fulton Ave (including the bridge over Pigeon Creek); SR 62 was rerouted to that alignment then. The rest of the expressway started construction in 1983. This archived article says the Indiana Governor was the one "at the controls of the bulldozer" at the groundbreaking, which I think would be odd if it were only a city project: https://web.archive.org/web/20070927212427/http://web.courierpress.com/features/150/hist1116.htm To be clear, Division St (and Pennsylvania St) were city roads prior to their conversion to "expressways."

No one I know calls Diamond Ave an expressway.
No one calls Diamond Ave an expressway NOW, but go back to the older maps, and it is actually listed that way, and used to be stated same on street signs.  I always thought it was hilarious, since the only thing that it did other than regular surface streets was to go under railroad tracks, and over Pigeon Creek and one street between Kratzville Rd and St. Joseph Ave.

silverback1065

Quote from: Life in Paradise on April 12, 2022, 01:08:28 PM
Quote from: evvroads on April 11, 2022, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 11, 2022, 04:37:07 PM
Still not clear on this, was the Lloyd always a state road? or was it a city job that was taken over by the state? Also does anyone call Diamond Ave. an expressway?

I believe it was always a state road. Prior to the 50s, SR 62 followed present-day Broadway Ave to Barker Ave and then north. Sometime in the 50s, the state constructed the "Pennsylvania Expressway" between St Phillips Rd in Posey County and Fulton Ave (including the bridge over Pigeon Creek); SR 62 was rerouted to that alignment then. The rest of the expressway started construction in 1983. This archived article says the Indiana Governor was the one "at the controls of the bulldozer" at the groundbreaking, which I think would be odd if it were only a city project: https://web.archive.org/web/20070927212427/http://web.courierpress.com/features/150/hist1116.htm To be clear, Division St (and Pennsylvania St) were city roads prior to their conversion to "expressways."

No one I know calls Diamond Ave an expressway.
No one calls Diamond Ave an expressway NOW, but go back to the older maps, and it is actually listed that way, and used to be stated same on street signs.  I always thought it was hilarious, since the only thing that it did other than regular surface streets was to go under railroad tracks, and over Pigeon Creek and one street between Kratzville Rd and St. Joseph Ave.

:hmmm: perhaps it was supposed to be a real expressway in the past? Like the Lloyd?

edwaleni

Here is the Lloyd (listed as the Pennsylvania Expressway) from the Sanborn Map from 1949-1963.



Click the image to make larger.

jnewkirk77

I think the shift of 62/66 up First Avenue to Virginia, then over to 41, was to avoid at least part of the old railroad that ran down the middle of Division.



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