Montreal Border Crossing

[Duke87]

I would say no just by driving, personally.

However, Amtrak crosses that bridge - so that is an alternative if you do not have NEXUS.

[Dr Frankenstein]

I would consider it an accepted fudged clinch for cause of restricted area.

[Alps]

I would consider it an accepted fudged clinch for cause of restricted area.

You can't clinch something by looking at it. If your access is restricted to the entire length of something, it is by definition unclinchable. It's a different case from "oh, let me turn around within sight of the border," because at least you've been on the road until that point.

[realjd]

Yeah but good luck getting from Sasabe to Rocky Point without 4WD- there's no direct road once you're in Mexico and that road is absolutely terrible from what I understand, deep ruts in places and ridiculously washboarded in others, and if there's actually a spot outside of Juarez that's dangerous from a safety standpoint, that's it. Lots of illegals and coyotes (both the person and the animal) use that road before crossing- you do not want to get stuck there.

I had not seen this post before driving down there at the end of March.  having not had success finding some good tequila in Imuris or Nogales a few hours before, due to the shops not being open early on Sunday morning, I decided to head down to Sasabe.  I had assumed that Sasabe was similar to Naco - a dusty little town on the Mexican side of the border.  I had crossed into Naco on foot before, for lunch and a bottle of tequila, and found it to be safe, quiet and friendly.

I drove down to the border at Sasabe, looking for a place to park and walk across, and was stopped by US customs at the last possible turnaround point.  when I explained the purpose for my trip, they told me that there is no tourism, no tequila, nothing but lots of crime.  They recommended that I turn around, so I did.  I was asked a few brief questions, and they visually inspected my passport and green card, without entering it into the computer.  no complaints on my part; they were professional and friendly.  I was at the border for maybe 10 minutes total.

(as an addendum, my crossing at Nogales Mariposa was 17 minutes of waiting in line, and another 14 minutes of primary and secondary inspection, thanks to all the camping equipment in my trunk.  Sunday morning around 9.)

One of my coworkers went to Juarez recently on foot to pick up some antibiotics. CBP stopped him outbound and told him that under no circumstances should he go so far into that hell hole that he lose sight of the border crossing. They said the few blocks within sight of the border were safe for bars, restaurants, and shops (including pharmacia) but nothing beyond.

I wouldn't hesitate to visit most of Mexico. Border towns across from TX, not so much.

[Dr Frankenstein]

I got stopped by the CBP when entering Detroit at night. The agent was ridiculously condescending. I eventually argued my way in.

[empirestate]

One question I've always had is if it's would be considered OK to fudge a clinch of NY 182; while I will often fudge roads that end at the border, I don't usually fudge bridges.  Then again, if/when I join NEXUS, I probably would enroll in the toll thing since the Peace and Whirlpool Bridges would be the most convenient crossing points for heading west, and traffic often backs up onto the Peace Bridge, limiting the effectiveness of NEXUS if it's busy.

Luckily, I can avoid that particular fudge since we used to use the Whirlpool Bridge as our preferred (i.e., non-tourist-clogged) route to Niagara Falls before it was restricted to NEXUS holders.

[vdeane]

I would consider it an accepted fudged clinch for cause of restricted area.

You can't clinch something by looking at it. If your access is restricted to the entire length of something, it is by definition unclinchable. It's a different case from "oh, let me turn around within sight of the border," because at least you've been on the road until that point.

Well, this is essentially that for NY 182, the difference being the end is on a bridge and a TOTSO at that.

[Pete from Boston]

My experiences in NY, VT, ME, and MI crossings have been consistent with the rest here -- by and large, the process is painless.  I let my girlfriend drive, since she's much nicer than me, and we play nice and answer honestly.  Never been searched, only detained once for her pepper spray (which was very cordial, and she had to consent to surrender it to the Crown, which she found very amusing).

Québec has a big hydroponic tomato industry.  During the winter, we now have tomatoes worth eating thanks to this.  Once, on an early summer day in Montréal, we stopped at a farmers' market and sampled perfect, full-ripe tomatoes as good as any you would grow yourself and pick here in August.  They were plentiful and cheap, too.  We agonized for a full twenty minutes, poring over regulations online before giving up and deciding to wait two more months to taste that again.  We'd been specifically asked about tomatoes in the past, and if you remember how the tomato blight swept through plant distribution channels three or so years ago, you get why.  Their disease transmitability puts them near the top of the agricultural no-no list, and we didn't want ourselves on any list at all.

I have witnessed some really boorish behavior by US agents in the past, which is infuriating because they're pretty much the first impression people get of you and me (if you're a US person).  I've found Canada agents to carry themselves more consistently professionally, though the majority of US agents have been better than the bad apples.

Best bets for getting into and out of Canada easily:

* Keep your car clean and organized.  And if your car screams "sketchy," consider taking the bus across.
* Be courteous and direct with your answers.
* Smile.  Canadian agents like that you're happy to come into Canada, and US agents like that you're respecting your own laws when you return.
* Have a clear purpose to state for your visit.  I have gone to Montréal to just wander and hang out plenty of times, but I don't phrase it that way.  Vague people are suspicious people.
* Don't choose the border crossing to demonstrate your "rights" (which you surrender the moment you leave the US anyway), not even a little.
* Dignity, respect, and honesty will speed your trip.  You might get treated poorly sometimes, but taking the high road is always in your best interest.

[agentsteel53]

I've found Canada agents to carry themselves more consistently professionally, though the majority of US agents have been better than the bad apples.

the only time I've had dickish US agents was coming in from Canada, or at inland points near Mexico.

when I was coming in from Mexico or flying in, they have always been ranging from efficiently courteous to actually friendly.  the friendly ones seem to be assigned to the less-traveled outposts: at Sasabe I was actually chatting with one officer about Hermosillo, where his family happened to be from, while the other one searched my car.

inland encounters are a toss-up.  once, an officer observed me taking an exit off I-8, driving around a bit, and then getting back on the freeway, and his first question was "who were you picking up at the Sentinel exit?", a classic presumptuous "bad cop" routine, because apparently looking for bits of old US-80 infrastructure is suspicious.  however, I've also been taking photos at night on dirt roads and encounters have resulted in some friendly chats because their initial impression of me was that I was harmless.

[agentsteel53]

CBP stopped him outbound and told him that under no circumstances should he go so far into that hell hole that he lose sight of the border crossing. They said the few blocks within sight of the border were safe for bars, restaurants, and shops (including pharmacia) but nothing beyond.

"should" being the operative term.  I do not believe that CBP has the authority to prevent a person from leaving the country, except in a few well-defined cases (terms of sentencing of a felony conviction, outstanding warrants, etc).  nor can CBP refuse to readmit a legal resident, not even to say "we warned you not to go past 10 blocks, now you can't come back in, so nyah".

[AsphaltPlanet]

The last time I crossed the border I was greeted by a pretty friendly US agent.  I was driving to Buffalo to fly to Phoenix, and had printouts of my itinerary (plane tickets, car rental and first nights hotel accommodation) handy for his inspection.  Once the border agent found out what I did for a living, (I have a pretty reputable job), he relaxed a lot, and preceded to tell me that his daughter just came back from Phoenix and loved it.  He wished me a pleasant journey.

I generally find border staff to be somewhat abrasive, but generally highly professional.

[Pete from Boston]

The last time I crossed the border I was greeted by a pretty friendly US agent.  I was driving to Buffalo to fly to Phoenix, and had printouts of my itinerary (plane tickets, car rental and first nights hotel accommodation) handy for his inspection.  Once the border agent found out what I did for a living, (I have a pretty reputable job), he relaxed a lot, and preceded to tell me that his daughter just came back from Phoenix and loved it.  He wished me a pleasant journey.

I generally find border staff to be somewhat abrasive, but generally highly professional.

I stumbled once when a Canadian agent asked me my profession.  I'd been at a new job for two weeks after several months of temp jobs and the like and I could barely remember what my job was.  I think I said "assistant" or something equally evasive-sounding, but it all worked out.

[corco]

The last time I crossed the border I was greeted by a pretty friendly US agent.  I was driving to Buffalo to fly to Phoenix, and had printouts of my itinerary (plane tickets, car rental and first nights hotel accommodation) handy for his inspection.  Once the border agent found out what I did for a living, (I have a pretty reputable job), he relaxed a lot, and preceded to tell me that his daughter just came back from Phoenix and loved it.  He wished me a pleasant journey.

I crossed the border for the first time since I've been 21 back in February, and it was decidedly more pleasant than it had been- but the focus was definitely on my employment, and once it was discerned I have a stable job I was pretty much waved through. CBSA grilled me a little bit about why I was crossing where I was crossing and where I worked and asked me to pull in for secondary. I pulled in for secondary and went in the building and two minutes later a lady walked out with my passport and said "Welcome to Canada!" I assume they ran a credit check or employment verification or something.

Going back into the USA the lady was very nice- asked where I worked and what I did. When I said I was a GIS Coordinator for [where I work] she said "and what does GIS stand for?" and after I responded she did the usual alcohol/tobacco/firearms questions and sent me on my way- very polite and very fast.

[mtantillo]

NEXUS Application certified and sent on March 28, 2013.
Conditional Approval for NEXUS on April 17, 2013. 
Interview scheduled for Fort Erie this Saturday, May 11.  On April 17, the appointments were booked solid well into July at all of the Toronto/Niagara/Buffalo enrollment centers, but I refreshed often for a half a day and snagged a cancellation on a weekend in May...not bad!  Doing the touristy thing in Niagara Falls this weekend while I'm there. 

With a little bit of luck, I'll have the card in-hand for when I fly up to Toronto over Memorial Day weekend for a mini-vacation. 

I don't go to Canada much (average once per year), but I figure if I am a "trusted traveler", I might as well have the benefits in the foreign country I travel to most often (as opposed to just in the US with the more expensive Global Entry). 

I will be doing the toll thing on my NEXUS card eventually.  I hope it works though, since I understand the NEXUS toll and ExpressPass used by the Niagara Falls Bridge Commission is essentially the same as a TransCore 6C sticker tag, and I aleady have one of those stuck to my windshield (a Georgial PeachPass).  Hopefully the system is smart enough to "keep looking" for a valid tag if it reads what it thinks is an invalid tag (the PeachPass).  I suppose I could always disable the PeachPass...sticker tags are easily "turned off" by taping a mass of metal over the back, such as a piece of aluminum foil folded over several times...supposidly the metal will drown out the radio signal to render the tag inoperable.  At any rate, this shouldn't be an issue for the Whirlpool Bridge, since the toll/NEXUS verification works like a proximity card at that crossing, as opposed to a toll pass like it does at Lewiston-Queenston and Rainbow.  Too bad all of the Niagara crossings don't go to E-ZPass like Peace Bridge...supposidly the NFBC toll readers can read E-ZPass tags, but just aren't connected to the back end of E-ZPass to actually process E-ZPass transactions. 

Interesting to note...the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel also does a similar program..you establish a "NEXPRESS" account with them and link it to your NEXUS card that you can tap at the toll plaza. And like Niagara crossings, the ON/MI crossings use different technology.  Ambassador Bridge uses sticker tag "decals", and Blue Water Bridge does not have ETC. 

[kphoger]

CBP stopped him outbound and told him that under no circumstances should he go so far into that hell hole that he lose sight of the border crossing. They said the few blocks within sight of the border were safe for bars, restaurants, and shops (including pharmacia) but nothing beyond.

"should" being the operative term.  I do not believe that CBP has the authority to prevent a person from leaving the country, except in a few well-defined cases (terms of sentencing of a felony conviction, outstanding warrants, etc).  nor can CBP refuse to readmit a legal resident, not even to say "we warned you not to go past 10 blocks, now you can't come back in, so nyah".

Frankly, I'm surprised they even go so far as to say "should", considering how many people cross the border between El Paso and Juárez.  Don't they have anything better to do?

Port Name     Year     Pedestrians   TX: El Paso   2005   7,613,546 TX: El Paso   2006   7,500,141 TX: El Paso   2007   8,454,434 TX: El Paso   2008   8,029,106 TX: El Paso   2009   7,637,649 TX: El Paso   2010   6,930,357 TX: El Paso   2011   6,172,346 TX: El Paso   2012   6,090,841 [source=Bureau of Transportation Statistics]

[vdeane]

I wondering if "traveler origin" is a factor here.  These stories are both from people who live far from the area to be visited.

[mtantillo]

Very likely just helpful friendly advice. In the case of the guy going to Juarez,
US CBP can't tell you what to do once you drive past that bridge. In Dr. frankensteinas case, as a visitor to the US, I think CBP can put stipulations on what you can and can't do, but that would be extremely rare in the case of a Canadian. 

I was once in El Paso and thought about walking over to Juarez. This was before it got really bad, and I had been in Tijuana about 3 days prior. I talked myself out of it realizing I had no idea what was on the other side or how safe the area was that I'd have to walk through to cross over to the US bound side, so I didn't go. I assume that they may think if you aren't from the area that you don't know what it is really like and are trying to be helpful. 

[kphoger]

One of the most pleasantly surprising situations I've found myself in while traveling was in Juárez.  This was the evening of January 1, 2002; I was 20 years old at the time, on my way back from visiting southern Chihuahua with my dad.  I had left a small bag in the back seat of a taxi when we got out at our hotel.  By the time I realized it at check-in, the taxi was already gone, so I had the hotel clerk call another taxi.  I had very little hope that I would ever see my bag or its contents again.

When the taxi dropped me back off at the bus station, I asked a couple of the other drivers there if they had seen the bag.  Several of them very eagerly said, yes, they remembered a driver coming back with a lost bag, and told me I should check with bus station security.  I went inside, found a guard, and he escorted me upstairs to their office.  (A nagging voice in my head was telling me that being led up a lonely flight of stairs in Juárez after dark by a man with a gun might be the beginning of a really bad experience.)  As it turned out, the bag had been locked away, and the guard with the key had gone home for the evening.  So I took another taxi back to our hotel.  The next morning, both of us took another taxi back to the station and found another guard, who escorted us upstairs.  He found the bag, verified it was mine by asking me what was inside and looking, and gave it back to me.  We then took another taxi (yes, this was my fifth taxi ride within 15 hours) to the border and made our way to the El Paso airport.

What made the experience so pleasantly surprising is that–even back in 2002, before the upturn in violence–Juárez already had a bad reputation.  Yet every single person I dealt with (the hotel clerk, the crowd of taxi drivers, the security guards) was very friendly and eager to help.  What could have been a very stressful and unhappy experience turned out to be no big thing.

All that is to say, it's not "helpful friendly advice" to tell someone that 95 percent of a city is a hell hole where he is certain to meet an untimely death, for such a portrayal of a city is sure to be erroneous.  In 2011, for example, the murder rate in Juárez was 149 per 100,000 population.  While that is quite high when compared to other cities, don't forget to put it into context.  For example, I had a delivery job in 2007 that occasionally took me to East Saint Louis, Illinois.  That city posted a murder rate of 102 per 100,000 that year, yet I don't recall any federal officers giving me "helpful friendly advice" to not go there.  And our company certainly didn't give up doing business there just because the crime rate was above average.  Amazingly (not), I survived.  There is no reason the CBP should be telling people what places they should and should not visit–especially when the place they "should not" visit is on a border crossed by more than 6 million pedestrians every year.  Grrr..

[/rant]

[empirestate]

All that is to say, it's not "helpful friendly advice" to tell someone that 95 percent of a city is a hell hole where he is certain to meet an untimely death, for such a portrayal of a city is sure to be erroneous.  In 2011, for example, the murder rate in Juárez was 149 per 100,000 population.  While that is quite high when compared to other cities, don't forget to put it into context.  For example, I had a delivery job in 2007 that occasionally took me to East Saint Louis, Illinois.  That city posted a murder rate of 102 per 100,000 that year, yet I don't recall any federal officers giving me "helpful friendly advice" to not go there.  And our company certainly didn't give up doing business there just because the crime rate was above average.  Amazingly (not), I survived.  There is no reason the CBP should be telling people what places they should and should not visit–especially when the place they "should not" visit is on a border crossed by more than 6 million pedestrians every year.  Grrr..

[/rant]

Good point...with current life expectancy in the U.S. at 77.97 years, your odds of dying on any given day are better than 1 in 28,478.

(I'm sure that's totally non-fuzzy math. After all, the older you are the less likely you are to die, since if you die on your third day of life, the odds are one in three that you'll die on any given day of your life. If you live longer than three days, well, Q.E.D.)

[agentsteel53]

the older you are the less likely you are to die

I'll be sure to remember this when I'm 98 years old and decide to go hunt tigers with nothing but a sharp stick.

[NE2]

in before alan hall problem

[agentsteel53]

in before alan hall problem

the Alan Hall problem is the seeming paradox that, even after a door is opened revealing a tantalizing goat, the game show contestant appears to be bent on opening a door with a motorcycle behind it, as opposed to the other goat door.

[realjd]

Very likely just helpful friendly advice. In the case of the guy going to Juarez,
US CBP can't tell you what to do once you drive past that bridge. In Dr. frankensteinas case, as a visitor to the US, I think CBP can put stipulations on what you can and can't do, but that would be extremely rare in the case of a Canadian. 

This wasn't the CBP officer putting actual stipulations on where my coworkers was allowed to go once he entered Mexico. The guy was just trying to offer friendly suggestions to the only gringo crossing the border on foot about how to not get robbed. It wasn't even a formal exit check.

NEXUS Application certified and sent on March 28, 2013.
Conditional Approval for NEXUS on April 17, 2013. 
Interview scheduled for Fort Erie this Saturday, May 11.  On April 17, the appointments were booked solid well into July at all of the Toronto/Niagara/Buffalo enrollment centers, but I refreshed often for a half a day and snagged a cancellation on a weekend in May...not bad!  Doing the touristy thing in Niagara Falls this weekend while I'm there. 

With a little bit of luck, I'll have the card in-hand for when I fly up to Toronto over Memorial Day weekend for a mini-vacation. 

Even without the card, you should be able to use the Global Entry kiosks at the Toronto Airport when you go through US CBP preclearance heading home. That won't do you any good getting into Canada but it will at least let you take the shortcut back into the US if you don't have the card since GE uses passports for air travel and not the card.

Also, once you get the card, go into the frequent flyer account profile for any airlines you fly and enter the PASSID from the back of the card as your "known traveler number". That will get you TSA PreCheck privelages when flying domestically within the US at participating airports.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that GE/NEXUS travelers can use the SmartGate immigration lines going into Australia if you have one of the newer e-passports.

[kphoger]

the only gringo crossing the border on foot

Seriously?

[realjd]

the only gringo crossing the border on foot

Seriously?

Yes. He was in El Paso for work and went across the border in the evening when all of the Mexican workers were heading home. Besides, Ciudad Juarez is widely considered a no-go zone by El Paso residents (of any ethnicity) so I would expect there to be a lower proportion of Americans crossing the border in general when compared to safer places like Nuevo Laredo or Tijuana.

FWIW, I sat next to an American engineer working for a Mexican manufacturing company on a flight last year. He said Juarez is the only plant location where his company will not let him stay on the Mexican side of the border when he is visiting.