Madison Area

[silverback1065]

There's going to be a new Perry St overpass across The Beltline that was announced today. The new bridge will be built just to the west of the US 14/US 151 Interchange.

From the DOT press release: "The funding is aimed at reconnecting communities that were cut off by transportation infrastructure decades ago, leaving entire neighborhoods without direct access to opportunity, like schools, jobs, medical offices and places of worship."

Yeah, this is NOT a "cut off" community. This is a light commercial/industrial district that is separated from a mixed commercial/residential area by a highway. It's a stupid location to try to cram in another vehicle overpass, and it won't do a damn thing for the folks who live there. What it *might* do is make the area south of the Beltline more viable for redevelopment - and I suspect that's ultimately the City's goal, press releases be damned.

It's easily a $10-15 million project for a vehicle bridge to connect the two sides, only one of which has an appreciable residential population - nobody lives in the City of Madison section south of the Beltline. Both areas already have ample ways to get in and out by car. Not to mention, they'll need to grab a bunch of property on both sides of the Beltline to put this bridge in there.

Take out the slum motels on each side of the highway the most expensive way possible! Do eeet!!!

If we're merely talking about a pedestrian and bike overpass, that makes a lot more sense. There is a dearth of options to safely cross the Beltline as a pedestrian or cyclist, and this would provide a viable way into the City from the Capital City bike trail or neighborhood farther south in Fitchburg. It can be done without nearly the amount of disruption or property acquisition as a vehicle overpass.

it's simply political speak 

[triplemultiplex]

While the beltline didn't cut off access to something that previously was there, it does offer an inconvenience to accessing the light industrial area that has developed south of the beltline since its construction.
My reading between the lines is someone likes the idea of people living in south Madison neighborhoods to be able to walk/bike to jobs in that industrial park.  Or at least drive there without using Fish Hatch.  That area south of the beltline is kind of on an island presently with only Fish Hatch connecting it to the rest of the city.

Like I said earlier, it would be great if such an overpass could be folded into a project to braid the ramps between Park and Fish Hatch.  Those are sucky merges most times of day.

[SEWIGuy]

There's going to be a new Perry St overpass across The Beltline that was announced today. The new bridge will be built just to the west of the US 14/US 151 Interchange.

From the DOT press release: "The funding is aimed at reconnecting communities that were cut off by transportation infrastructure decades ago, leaving entire neighborhoods without direct access to opportunity, like schools, jobs, medical offices and places of worship."

Yeah, this is NOT a "cut off" community. This is a light commercial/industrial district that is separated from a mixed commercial/residential area by a highway. It's a stupid location to try to cram in another vehicle overpass, and it won't do a damn thing for the folks who live there. What it *might* do is make the area south of the Beltline more viable for redevelopment - and I suspect that's ultimately the City's goal, press releases be damned.

It's easily a $10-15 million project for a vehicle bridge to connect the two sides, only one of which has an appreciable residential population - nobody lives in the City of Madison section south of the Beltline. Both areas already have ample ways to get in and out by car. Not to mention, they'll need to grab a bunch of property on both sides of the Beltline to put this bridge in there.

Take out the slum motels on each side of the highway the most expensive way possible! Do eeet!!!

If we're merely talking about a pedestrian and bike overpass, that makes a lot more sense. There is a dearth of options to safely cross the Beltline as a pedestrian or cyclist, and this would provide a viable way into the City from the Capital City bike trail or neighborhood farther south in Fitchburg. It can be done without nearly the amount of disruption or property acquisition as a vehicle overpass.

I think the City using this for additional development south of the Beltline is exactly what they are thinking about here. The portion south of the Beltline really hasn't changed much in the last few decades. Remember this was part of the old Town of Madison so the City hasn't had its hands on it for awhile.

[The Ghostbuster]

Originally, the underpass at Terrence Ave. (just south of Exit 251AB), and the overpass at S. High Point Rd. were the only grade-separations that had no access to the Beltline. Then in 2005, the overpass for Agriculture Dr. (between Exit 266 and Exit 267AB) was constructed, and the Middleton Bypass was completed. More grade-separations should have been constructed along the Beltline. However, there are plenty of space constraints, especially between Exits 257 and 264. Maybe the ongoing Madison Beltline Study (https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/madisonbeltline/default.aspx) will ultimately provide additional grade-separations to the corridor.

[midwesternroadguy]

Originally, the underpass at Terrence Ave. (just south of Exit 251AB),

Terrace Avenue

[The Ghostbuster]

Last night, a Public Involvement Meeting was held on the US 51 Stoughton Rd. North Study: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/us51-corridor/0424presentation.pdf. The one disappointment I have is that they plan on building a jug-handle at East Washington Ave. I would have preferred the tight diamond interchange alternative. I also would have liked the railroad crossing to have become grade-separated instead of continuing to cross US 51 at-grade.

[JREwing78]

Some thoughts:
- On what planet do pedestrians and bikes have any business existing on US-51 south of E. Washington Ave (US-151)? That is, apparently, a justification for not doing a diverging diamond interchange at Hwy 30.

- The jughandle option at US-151, honestly, is a good plan. It's addressing the majority of the issues with turning traffic without absurdly inflating the price tag. It doesn't preclude a future grade separation of NBD US-51 should that become necessary.

- I'm amused at the bus-only passage connecting Mendota St to Anderson St and US-51. It makes total sense to prevent people from using Mendota St as a back-way onto eastbound E. Washington Ave. I'm curious how it's going to be executed - I presume in the form of a gate or barrier activated by the bus.

[Big John]

^^ For your first item, WisDOT is adding DDIs at several interchanges in the I-41 expansion project, including Ballard Rd, identified as a school route for pedestrians. So the inconsistency is there.

[Revive 755]

Maybe there were more alternatives left out of the presentation, but the listing of alternatives seems lacking:

• No SPUI alternative for the WI 30 interchange?
• No jughandle for Commercial Avenue?
• No Michigan left or CFI alternatives for some of the intersections?

[JREwing78]

• No SPUI alternative for the WI 30 interchange?

They were expressing a strong desire to NOT have to rebuild the Hwy 30 overpass, so that checks. The volume of left turning traffic is also considerably higher from SBD US-51 to EBD Hwy 30 than NBD US-51 to WBD Hwy 30.

• No jughandle for Commercial Avenue?

The railroad immediately south of the intersection complicates matters. It's also a low and swampy site, unlike the US-51/151 intersection. They'd be forced to go up and over the railroad, then either duck down for the Hwy 30 interchange or put through traffic on an overpass up and over Hwy 30.

At that point, if I were at WisDOT or City of Madison, I'd be tempted to figure out a way to eliminate the Commercial Ave intersection altogether.

• No Michigan left or CFI alternatives for some of the intersections?

There's not enough median space north of US-151/E. Washington Ave, and the railroad at Commercial Ave precludes its us there.

[SEWIGuy]

This is a similar concept to the County PD, County M intersection in Verona, and that works very well. So I think this makes sense as a lower cost option.

[mgk920]

I recall that a decade or so ago, there was some chatter about trying a three lane roundabout at stoughton Rd (US 51)/Washington St (US 151).  I assume that those thoughts went nowhere.



Mike

[Revive 755]

• No Michigan left or CFI alternatives for some of the intersections?

There's not enough median space north of US-151/E. Washington Ave, and the railroad at Commercial Ave precludes its us there.

A narrow median didn't stop the installation of a Michigan-left type designs in Utah or on MO 141 in Valley Park.

[silverback1065]

just curious, is the signal at US 18/151 and Raymond planned to be removed and replaced with an interchange sometime in the future? 

[JREwing78]

just curious, is the signal at US 18/151 and Raymond planned to be removed and replaced with an interchange sometime in the future? 

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: Not anytime soon.

The long-term plan is for Verona Rd to become a frontage road for a US-18/151 freeway-to-freeway interchange (or, rather, flyover ramps for the WBD-WBD and EBD-EBD movements) with the Beltline. When the current SPUI interchange was built, they planned for this sometime in the 2030-2040 timeframe.

I wouldn't hold your breath for that timeframe getting shorter. WisDOT is undertaking a study of the entire Beltline Hwy (which presumably would cover any proposed modifications to the Verona Rd interchange). New flyover ramps in such an urban location won't come cheap.

[silverback1065]

just curious, is the signal at US 18/151 and Raymond planned to be removed and replaced with an interchange sometime in the future? 

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: Not anytime soon.

The long-term plan is for Verona Rd to become a frontage road for a US-18/151 freeway-to-freeway interchange (or, rather, flyover ramps for the WBD-WBD and EBD-EBD movements) with the Beltline. When the current SPUI interchange was built, they planned for this sometime in the 2030-2040 timeframe.

I wouldn't hold your breath for that timeframe getting shorter. WisDOT is undertaking a study of the entire Beltline Hwy (which presumably would cover any proposed modifications to the Verona Rd interchange). New flyover ramps in such an urban location won't come cheap.

Interesting, I thought a freeway to freeway interchange made more sense there with the belt line. Good to see that that will eventually happen.

[The Ghostbuster]

As I've stated before, I highly doubt there will be any further upgrades to the Verona Rd. corridor. Unless the Raymond Rd. signaled intersection, the Summit Rd. jug-handles, and the Beltline SPUI interchange see a great increase in traffic counts and congestion, the 2014-2020 improvements to the corridor will be permanent.

[Molandfreak]

Raymond Road is such a random-ass place to have the first traffic light since Dubuque. I can forgive not replacing the SPUI at the beltline. At least that makes some sense to permanently end the expressway there even if it's not what I'd rather see, but really at a road that isn't even on the NHS?