Minnesota Notes

Started by Mdcastle, April 18, 2012, 07:54:36 PM

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froggie

Ongoing 2016 construction (continued from previous years):

MN 5 Mississippi River Bridge - A major bridge redecking continues.  Eastbound was done last year, now all traffic is squeezed onto one lane per direction on the eastbound side so westbound can be done.
US 14 from west of Nicollet to North Mankato - This project began last summer and involves 4-laning US 14 from west of Nicollet to the existing 4-lane on the outskirts of North Mankato.  It includes a Nicollet bypass an an interchange at MN 111/CSAH 23.
MN 23 at Kandiyohi CSAH 5 near Willmar - This project will build an overpass for CSAH 5 over MN 23, utilizing the existing grading/fill for what was long ago planned as an interchange when the Willmar bypass was built.  The existing roadway north of MN 23 will remain as the connector road between MN 23 and CSAH 5.
MN 23 in West Duluth - Second year of reconstructing MN 23 through West Duluth, from Becks Rd to I-35.  The road will basically retain its existing 4-lane undivided configuration.
MN 24 over the Mississippi River - The MN 24 Mississippi River Bridge is being replaced with the new bridge being just downstream of the existing bridge.
MN 29 near I-94 in Alexandria - This project will essentially rebuild the I-94/MN 29 interchange (basically as-is except moving the westbound ramps closer to the I-94 mainline), widen MN 29 from I-94 south to CSAH 28/CR 87 (about 3/4mi), and construct a roundabout at CSAH 28/CR 7 with CSAH 28 relocated to meet MN 29 at CR 87.  The roundabout was completed last year.
I-35E from I-94 to Little Canada Rd - Ongoing reconstruction of the I-35E corridor should wrap up this year.  The project adds a MnPASS (HO/T) lane in each direction (opened 11/30/2015), replaces the Cayuga Bridge (completed), adds auxiliary lanes between I-94 and Maryland Ave (for a total of 10 lanes on that stretch), and replaces the former 3/4 interchange at Pennsylvania Ave with a full folded-diamond intechange at Cayuga St (northbound ramps open, southbound to open this summer).
I-35E from I-694 to north of County Road J - This project extends on the above Cayuga Bridge project to extend the MnPASS (HO/T) Lanes north of I-694.  The southbound MnPASS lane will begin at CSAH 96 and be continuous through the I-694 commons to downtown St. Paul.  The northbound MnPASS lane will have a gap through the 694 commons, beginning again north of I-694 and continuing to north of County Road J.
MN 36 St. Croix River Crossing - Continuing construction on this "Stillwater Bridge" replacement.  MN 36 traffic is using the future eastbound off-ramp to MN 95.
MN 43 Winona Bridge - Expansion of the winona Bridge over the Mississippi River.  The original plan as it began construction was to build a new parallel bridge upstream as the new southbound lanes and rehabilitate the existing bridge (which is eligible for the National Register of Historic Places) to serve as the northbound lanes.  That plan is now $30 million over budget so MnDOT is reevaluating what to do with the existing bridge.  The new bridge span is still scheduled for completion this year.
US 53 relocation near Virginia - Mentioned previously on this forum, this project will relocate US 53 on the south side of Virginia so that the adjacent mining company can mine underneath existing US 53.  US 53 will be relocated to the northeast, including a 1,100ft long bridge over the Rocheleau Pit that apparently will be the tallest bridge in the state.  The project replaces the existing half-interchange at 2nd St with an intersection, but includes a diamond interchange at MN 135 to replace the existing 53/135 interchange.
US 61/MN 97 in Forest Lake - Construction started last fall to build roundabouts at each of the 61/97 junctions.  "Free right" ramps will be provided for each MN 97 through-right movement off 61, and also from WB 97 to NB 61.
US 63 at Olmsted CSAH 16 near the Rochester Airport - This project is reconstructing the existing interchange into a diamond with roundabouts.
US 75 near Kent - This project is relocating a US 75 railroad grade seperation further north of Kent, in Wilkin County, to reduce persistent flooding closures.
I-90 Dresbach Bridge - Aside from removal of the old bridge, construction should finish on the new I-90 Dresbach Bridge over the Mississippi River this year.  This project also reconstructs the interchange at US 14/US 61 with more direct ramps (especially WB 90 to SB 14/61).
I-94 at 7th St in downtown Minneapolis - This project, begun last year, will relocate the westbound I-94 exit to 5th St and downtown Minneapolis to 7th St.  The existing 5th St ramp bridge over I-35W will be reconfigured as a local road.
MN 100 in St Louis Park - This long-awaited full reconstruction of MN 100 in St. Louis Park should wrap up this year.  The plan includes reconstructing the interchanges at MN 7 (into a 5-ramp par-clo) and CSAH 5/Minnetonka Blvd (into a tight diamond) and providing a continuous 6 lanes (3 per direction) on MN 100.  Additional auxiliary lanes will be built between West 36th St and MN 7 and also between MN 7 and West 26th St.
US 169 in Belle Plaine - Another pop-up project, this will build an overpass over US 169 just west of Scott CSAH 3.  I'm somewhat surprised they didn't put it along CSAH 3 so as to provide a continuous route.  Here's a map that shows the location.
MN 210 through Jay Cooke State Park - This ongoing project will rebuild a section of MN 210 through the park that was washed out in severe flooding 4 years ago.
US 212 at Shady Oak Rd in Eden Prairie - This project should wrap up this year.  It's reconstructing the US 212/Shady Oak Rd interchange for increased capacity, but retaining a diamond configuration.
I-494 from I-394 to I-94 - Reconstruction/widening will finish this year on I-494 between I-394 and I-94.  The widenings involved with this project include a northbound auxiliary lane between I-394 and Carlson Pkwy, auxiliary lanes on both sides between CSAH 6 and MN 55, a 3rd through lane in each direction between MN 55 and I-94/694, and a southbound auxiliary lane from I-94/694 to CSAH 10/Bass Lake Rd.  Unlike last year, this year's construction will maintain 2 lanes in each direction, with traffic shifted to the southbound side so that the northbound lanes can be rebuilt and widened.
MN 610 between I-94 and CSAH 81 - Construction should wrap up this year on extending MN 610 to I-94.  The project includes a full interchange at Maple Grove Pkwy, a partial interchange at I-94 just north of the 101st Ave overpass (WB 610 to WB 94 and EB 94 to EB 610 only), and replaces old 101st Ave with a new 105th Ave from west of I-94 to Maple Grove Pkwy.  A project layout is here.


froggie

New construction for 2016:

MN 1/MN 169 near Eagles Nest Lake - This project will fully reconstruct MN 1/169 in the Eagles Nest Lake area between Tower and Ely, with about half of that on new alignment.
MN 4/MN 30 in St. James - This project reconstructs MN 4/MN 30 through St. James.  The project includes two mini-roundabouts in downtown St. James.
US 8/MN 95 near Taylors Falls - Reconstruction of the road results in detours this year.  The project includes a roundabout at MN 95 South/Tern Ave.
MN 23 between Pipestone and Willmar - This project will construct 11 single-direction passing lanes along MN 23 between Pipestone and Willmar.
MN 25 in Buffalo - This project will rebuild MN 25 through north Buffalo (on both sides of MN 55) and will include 4-laning for about a half-mile north of MN 55, dual left turn lanes on all approaches at the MN 25/MN 55 intersection, and a roundabout on MN 25 at 8th St NW/CSAH 12.
I-35W at County Road H in Arden Hills - This interchange project will reconstruct and reconfigure the I-35W/County Rd H interchange (just north of US 10 East).  The reconfiguration will add the missing northbound off-ramp, but in the process will eliminate the southbound on-ramp.  The ramp terminals will have roundabouts.  Given how close this is to US 10/CSAH 10, County Rd H traffic could use CSAH 10 to get to southbound I-35W.  The new northbound off-ramp will bridge under the ramp from westbound US 10 to northbound I-35W, with the latter ramp being relocated to include the bridge.
MN 36 at Lexington Ave in Roseville - This project reconstructs the MN 36/Lexington Ave interchange, essentially the same as the current configuration.
US 52 US 63 South/South Broadway in Rochester - Normally a bridge redecking on the US 52 bridges over US 63/South Broadway, this project will also revise the northbound 3rd lane on US 52 so that it begins from the on-ramp loop from northbound 63 (today's NB 63 through movement) instead of from the on-ramp from South Broadway.
US 52 at Dakota CSAH 86 near Cannon Falls - Another US 52 "pop-up project", this will build another interchange along US 52.  The layout calls for a folded-diamond with on-ramp loops.
MN 77 at Cedar Grove (just south of MN 13) - Not a highway-project per se but a transit project that will impact the MN 77 freeway.  As part of the "Red Line BRT" (which follows MN 77), an in-line BRT station will be built in the median of MN 77 at Cedar Grove, just south of MN 13.
I-94 at US 75 in Moorhead - This long-expected project will reconstruct the I-94/US 75 interchange into a diverging diamond.  The project also include auxiliary lanes on I-94 between US 75 and 20th St (east of US 75).
I-94 in East St. Paul - Nominally a pavement reconstruction project extending out to MN 120, the project also includes building an auxiliary lane between downtown and Mounds Blvd, so that effectively you'll have at least 4 lanes on eastbound I-94 from the 11th St on-ramp downtown out to US 10/61 South.
MN 96 at Washington CSAH 15/Manning Ave near Stillwater - This county-led project will build a roundabout at the intersection.
US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter - This year's flood mitigation north of Mankato will rebuild segments of US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter to bring them above the 100 year floodplain.  The project requires a shutdown of US 169...the official detour follows Nicollet CSAH 13/MN 99 but MN 22 is also available.
US 169 between Eden Prairie and St. Louis Park - A number of smaller projects are being combined into one.  The two biggest items are permanently closing the southbound ramps at 16th St (just south of I-394) and replacing the bridge over Nine Mile Creek (north of MN 62).  The bridge replacement will involve a complete shutdown of the roadway for about a year.
US 169 east of Bovey - This project extends the 4-lane section of US 169 on the Iron Range another 1.5 miles, from the Bovey bypass to just east of Itasca CSAH 7.
MN 250 north of Lanesboro - This project replaces two old overhead truss bridges north of Lanesboro.  The bridges are being replaced due to being narrow and in poor condition.
MN 371 between Nisswa and Jenkins - This long-awaited project will widen MN 371 to 4 lanes from Nisswa to just north of Crow Wing CSAH 16.  It includes a bypass of Pequot Lakes and a diamond interchange with roundabouts at Crow Wing CSAH 11.
I-694 between Arden Hills and Shoreview - This long-needed widening project finally received funding.  It will reconstruct I-694 and add a 3rd lane in each direction between Lexington Ave and Rice St.  The net result will be 3 lanes in each direction from US 10 West to I-35E.
Stearns CSAH 1 near MN 15 - This project widens CSAH 1 for about a quarter mile north of MN 15 and adds a roundabout at Heritage Dr.

froggie

Upcoming/future projects:

MN 7/US 71 south of Willmar - A 2017 project will replace the existing rural traffic signal with a roundabout.
US 10 in Wadena - An 8-block leg of US 10 through Wadena will be reconstructed in 2018.  The reconstruction will accommodate a future
US 14/MN 15 near New Ulm - A project planned to begin in 2017 or 2018 will reconstruct US 14/MN 15 between MN 68/North Broadway in New Ulm and the 14/15 split, including replacing the bridges over Front St and the Minnesota River.  The road will be built as 2 lanes, with the bridges expandable to 4 in the future.  The existing folded-diamond interchange at Front St will be downgraded to a roundabout with a connector road.  The 14/15/CSAH 21 junction will be rebuilt as a diamond interchange with MN 15 as the through route, with dumbbells along US 14/CSAH 21 and a bypass ramp for EB 14 through traffic.
MN 29/MN 55 near Glenwood - Not currently funded, the plan is to replace the existing at-grade intersection with a bridge on MN 29 over both MN 55 and the adjacent Canadian Pacific tracks.  The connection between the two routes would be made via an improved 160th St.
I-35/I-535/US 53 in Duluth - This proposal would fully reconstruct the I-35/I-535/US 53 "Can of Worms" interchange in Duluth, which has several deficient bridges.  MnDOT has submitted a FASTLANT grant proposal requesting funding for the project.  The proposal includes a graphic on numbered page 7 that shows the proposed configuration.  In short, full freeway-to-freeway movements are retained between I-35 and I-535, the left exits on I-35 will be eliminated (all right-side ramps along I-35), and access between northbound I-35 and US 53 will be reconfigured into a set of regular diamond ramps with a traffic signal.  The ramps from southbound I-35 to northbound US 53 and to West 27th will also be reconfigured into a single exit...traffic from I-535 and US 53 would no longer be able to directly access West 27th.  If MnDOT doesn't get the FASTLANE grant, they predict they would not get to this interchange until 2031.
I-35W over the Minnesota River - MnDOT anticipates replacing the I-35W bridge over the Minnesota Rive beginning in 2020.  The project would separate northbound and southbound onto separate bridges (shifted slightly east compared to existing), return a full right shoulder (10ft) and a 6ft left shoulder, add a northbound lane (for a total of 8, 6 regular lanes plus 2 MnPASS lanes), and add a bike/ped path.  The interchange at Black Dog Rd would remain.
I-35W/I-494 in Bloomington - Arguably the biggest interchange need in the state, but remains unfunded.
I-35W in South Minneapolis - This massive project would rebuild I-35W between 42nd St and I-94, including replacing several bridges with several other reconfigurations.  The project will extend the MnPASS lanes on both sides to 26th St (the existing north dynamic shoulder would become a full MnPASS lane), construct a median transit station at Lake St, add a northbound off-ramp to 28th St, and add a southbound off-ramp to Lake St.  In addition, the existing southbound 35W flyover near 24th would be replaced by a fly-under north of Franklin, with SB 35W merging on the right instead of on the left.  Also, the flyover from northbound 35W to westbound 94 would be relocated to enter westbound 94 on the left instead of on the right. The project is expected to kick off next year (2017) and take 4 years.
MN 36 in North St. Paul - This is part of the vision which would complete a MN 36 freeway between I-35W and I-694.  The last two at-grade intersection are at MN 120/Century Ave and Hadley Ave.  Although a preferred alternative has not been selected yet, the likely scenario is a tight diamond interchange at MN 120 and a folded-diamond interchange (folded to the west) at Hadley.  No funding has been identified thus far.
US 52 at MN 58 in Zumbrota - This interchange reconstruction project will add roundabouts at the ramp terminals.
MN 60 between Windom and Mountain Lake - Planned for 2017-18, this 4-lane widening project will fill the final 4-lane gap on MN 60 between Worthington and Mankato, and is part of a larger 4-lane corridor stretching from the Twin Cities to Sioux City, IA.
US 63 over the Mississippi River - Tentatively scheduled to begin next year (2017), the US 63 bridges over US 61 and the Mississippi River at Red Wing will be replaced.  Traffic volumes are borderline between 2-lane and 4-lane, but MnDOT opted for a 2-lane span to save money, with a design that would allow for 4 lanes in the future.  US 63 would also be relocated out of downtown Red Wing, meeting US 61 directly just east of the overpass.
US 71 at MN 7 south of Willmar - A roundabout is planned for 2017.
US 71 at Hubbard CSAH 15 in Park Rapids - A roundabout is being considered for this junction in 2018.
MN 72 at the Rainy River in Baudette - This 2018 project will replace the International bridge connecting MN 72 to ON 11.
MN 149 over the Mississippi River - Redecking of the Smith Ave "High Bridge" over the Mississippi River is planned for 2018.
US 169 at Red Oak Dr/Southgate Dr in Aitkin - A roundabout is planned for 2017.
US 169 at MN 37 in Hibbing - A multilane roundabout is planned for 2017.

invincor

Thanks for all that froggie.  Some interesting tidbits there I hadn't known before. 

rte66man

I'm disappointed I didn't see the reconstruction of the MN101/US10/US169 interchange in Elk River.  Did I miss that?
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

froggie

No you didn't.  MnDOT doesn't have the funding to do anything with it.

TheHighwayMan3561

Project added for 2017: resurfacing of I-35/35W/35E at their northern split in Forest Lake, but more importantly replacing the bridges at MN 97 and US 8. Anoka County has been pleading for several years for MnDOT to replace the bridge at 35 and 97.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/35linolakes/index.html?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

The High Plains Traveler

Quote from: froggie on April 19, 2016, 12:13:25 PM
New construction for 2016:

US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter - This year's flood mitigation north of Mankato will rebuild segments of US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter to bring them above the 100 year floodplain.  The project requires a shutdown of US 169...the official detour follows Nicollet CSAH 13/MN 99 but MN 22 is also available.
OK, I was fooled. We drove up to Minnesota using MN-60 at the end of April, and when I saw signs in Worthington warning that 169 was closed north of Mankato, I thought it was the usual Spring flooding. We detoured up MN-15, U.S. 14 and MN-99 to St. Peter, but it looked like most traffic was using MN-22 instead of the official detour, which intersected 99.
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

The High Plains Traveler

On the subject of exit numbers on non-interstate freeways: I know that the U.S. 52 freeway upgrade through Rochester a few years back resulted in the exits being numbered. When we were in the area recently, we drove the U.S. 169 bypass around Shakopee, and one exit had new signage with an exit number on it. I think it was Marysville Road, which is the first exit after the new CSAH-69 exit on the west side of the city. (A new exit but no exit number). None of the other exits were numbered. Are these starting to show up on other Twin Cities area freeways?
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on May 20, 2016, 12:27:29 AM
On the subject of exit numbers on non-interstate freeways: I know that the U.S. 52 freeway upgrade through Rochester a few years back resulted in the exits being numbered. When we were in the area recently, we drove the U.S. 169 bypass around Shakopee, and one exit had new signage with an exit number on it. I think it was Marysville Road, which is the first exit after the new CSAH-69 exit on the west side of the city. (A new exit but no exit number). None of the other exits were numbered. Are these starting to show up on other Twin Cities area freeways?

I haven't seen any anywhere else; the roads I can speak for are MN 100 (entire length) and MN 5's airport section, the latter of which I noticed recently underwent a total sign replacement. MN 100 I think saw quite a few signs replaced in 2014 and 2015 with no exit numbers added.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

J N Winkler

I went up to Minneapolis/St. Paul last weekend, which was my first occasion spending any significant amount of time in Minnesota with a car, though I nicked the southwestern corner near Pipestone back in 1996 and flew to St. Paul in 1997 for a scholarship interview.  Since then I have amassed a collection of about 11,500 sign panel detail and sign elevation sheets (largely culled from MnDOT's EDMS and from letting plans that have been available from two vendors since 2007), but was not able to see MnDOT's approach to freeway signing as a gestalt before now.  (With the exception of TH 95 between I-94 and Taylors Falls, I still have seen very little of the conventional-road state highway system in Minnesota, and will seek to remedy this in a future trip.)

I have a few questions that I haven't been able to answer by looking in the MnMUTCD.

*  The MnMUTCD identifies the square county marker (M1-X4) as the default but says that county authorities can choose the pentagon marker (M1-6) "to establish and identify a system of important County roads."  The interchange sequence and route confirmation signs I saw on the freeways suggest that counties use either one or the other, not both.  Are there any counties which mix them, e.g. by using the pentagon for important routes and the square for lesser ones?

*  Why are Ramsey County routes identified on interchange sequence signs (e.g., on I-35E) as "County E2," "County J," "County C," etc. rather than with guide-sign versions of the county markers, as is the norm (with exceptions that appeared to me to be isolated) elsewhere in the state?

*  In Minnesota, as well as nearby states with bitter winters (IL and WI), I notice there are upright signs marking the start of turn lanes.  (WI is unusual among these states in using an arrow that points sideways and down, with a bias-cut shaft, in addition to the "LEFT [or RIGHT] TURN LANE" word message.)  Are these signs provided to allow turn lanes to be found when the road is covered with snow?

*  Is there any significant mileage of two-lane state highway in Minnesota with speed limits greater than 55 MPH?  I received the impression that the double nickel still rules on two-lane state highways in MN, IA, and WI, though the top freeway speed limit is now 70 in all three states.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

froggie

#436
QuoteAre there any counties which mix them, e.g. by using the pentagon for important routes and the square for lesser ones?

Stearns and Dakota are two such examples.

Whether to use the pentagon shield, the white square shield, or a mix, is completely up to the county.  Several counties use the pentagon shield exclusively (Hennepin and Anoka amongst them), whereas others use the white square exclusively (Olmsted, Carver, and Lake of the Woods being examples of this).

QuoteWhy are Ramsey County routes identified on interchange sequence signs (e.g., on I-35E) as "County E2," "County J," "County C," etc. rather than with guide-sign versions of the county markers, as is the norm (with exceptions that appeared to me to be isolated) elsewhere in the state?

I laugh every time one of the "uninitiated" encounter this.   :-D

In short, those are not county routes...they're street names.  The way Ramsey County chose to name their east-west sectional roads was to start with "A" at the St. Paul city limits (Larpentur Ave), and increase one letter per mile.  The "2" (as in E2) refers to a half-mile sectional.

Some of them are indeed county routes, both county state aid (CSAH) and regular county roads (CR).  But, as per the case in virtually all Minnesota counties, the CSAH's and CR's are numbered routes.

QuoteIs there any significant mileage of two-lane state highway in Minnesota with speed limits greater than 55 MPH?

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/speed/

Some outstate (i.e. outside the Twin Cities metro) roadways have had 60 MPH speed limits for about a decade now.  This includes lengthy sections of US 2, US 53, US 71, US 212 (west of Montevideo), MN 7, and MN 23 (southwest of Willmar).  Most of US 59 and US 75 were added in 2013.

2014 legislation is mandating that MnDOT study all remaining 2-lane 55 MPH segments on the state highway system through 2019, and implement changes as needed.  A map at the end (Appendix G) of this document shows the status thus far of these speed studies, including where 60 MPH zones existed before the 2014 legislation, where 60 MPH zones are recommended as a result of the 2014+ studies, and where 55 MPH zones are recommended to remain.  As a general rule, locations in/near the Twin Cities Metro, in Wright County, around Lake Mille Lacs, and in Cass County are recommended to remain 55 MPH.

The High Plains Traveler

Quote from: froggie on May 20, 2016, 06:44:49 PM
QuoteAre there any counties which mix them, e.g. by using the pentagon for important routes and the square for lesser ones?

Stearns and Dakota are two such examples.

Whether to use the pentagon shield, the white square shield, or a mix, is completely up to the county.  Several counties use the pentagon shield exclusively (Hennepin and Anoka amongst them), whereas others use the white square exclusively (Olmsted, Carver, and Lake of the Woods being examples of this).

QuoteWhy are Ramsey County routes identified on interchange sequence signs (e.g., on I-35E) as "County E2," "County J," "County C," etc. rather than with guide-sign versions of the county markers, as is the norm (with exceptions that appeared to me to be isolated) elsewhere in the state?

I laugh every time one of the "uninitiated" encounter this.   :-D

In short, those are not county routes...they're street names.  The way Ramsey County chose to name their east-west sectional roads was to start with "A" at the St. Paul city limits (Larpentur Ave), and increase one letter per mile.  The "2" (as in E2) refers to a half-mile sectional.

Some of them are indeed county routes, both county state aid (CSAH) and regular county roads (CR).  But, as per the case in virtually all Minnesota counties, the CSAH's and CR's are numbered routes.

As you stated, the street names are alphabetical (one letter per mile, starting at Larpenteur) while the current county designations are numerical. But, up through the 1950s, those letters actually were the official county designations. I'd have to look at old maps to see if any north-south roads had official designations. The current sequentially numbered Ramsey County highway system was introduced probably by 1960. I haven't looked back to see when those numbers first showed up.
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

froggie

Though it's possible Ramsey County revised their numbering system since then, the modern CSAH system was created in 1957 (following the 1956 Constitutional amendment that created the funding stream), so it would be no later than 1957 when numerical CSAH routes were created.

J N Winkler

My thanks to Froggie for his thorough answers to my questions.

In regard to what High Plains Traveler says, I've been through my collection of MnDOT sign panel detail sheets for county 62 (Ramsey) and I see MnDOT has been very careful not to couple any of the "County X" names with county route shields.  Google Maps, however, is not so cautious.  A casual look at the mapping for the eastern part of the Twin Cities on my phone turns up County D labeled with a "D" in a square.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

The High Plains Traveler

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 21, 2016, 05:00:39 PM
My thanks to Froggie for his thorough answers to my questions.

In regard to what High Plains Traveler says, I've been through my collection of MnDOT sign panel detail sheets for county 62 (Ramsey) and I see MnDOT has been very careful not to couple any of the "County X" names with county route shields.  Google Maps, however, is not so cautious.  A casual look at the mapping for the eastern part of the Twin Cities on my phone turns up County D labeled with a "D" in a square.
Google Maps on-line provides sporadic markings for Ramsey County routes not established along a road named with a lettered County Road designation. In a limited search, it also has a few "County Road X" named roads marked with their official county numerical designation. This is more evident when drilling down to high magnification.

A piece of trivia is that Ramsey did not mark essentially any of its official county road numbers until the late 1990s. Then, they starting posting numbers (using the pentagon sign) in the areas outside St. Paul. Finally, they marked the County State-Aid Highways within St. Paul - going overboard to the point where a route shield was posted immediately after all signalized intersections, even though there might have been a marker one or two blocks back.
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

discochris

Quote from: froggie on May 20, 2016, 06:44:49 PM
QuoteI laugh every time one of the "uninitiated" encounter this.   :-D

In short, those are not county routes...they're street names.  The way Ramsey County chose to name their east-west sectional roads was to start with "A" at the St. Paul city limits (Larpentur Ave), and increase one letter per mile.  The "2" (as in E2) refers to a half-mile sectional.

I've lived here my whole life, and I never knew that. So it's kind of like the numbering around Detroit (seven mile, eight mile, nine mile etc.)  I did know that St. Paul addresses are based on a mile system, rather than a grid system, which also confuses a lot of people.

Washington County for a long time just had the white square signs, and then a mix. I think they may have all gone to the blue pentagon.

froggie

Quote from: discochrisWashington County for a long time just had the white square signs, and then a mix. I think they may have all gone to the blue pentagon.

There've been a number of counties that have gone this route (pun intended).  I think Freeborn County is on its way there, which wouldn't be the first time they'd changed.  I'm old enough to remember seeing white-on-green county shields in Freeborn County.

bschultzy

Quote from: froggie on May 20, 2016, 06:44:49 PM
QuoteAre there any counties which mix them, e.g. by using the pentagon for important routes and the square for lesser ones?
Some outstate (i.e. outside the Twin Cities metro) roadways have had 60 MPH speed limits for about a decade now.  This includes lengthy sections of US 2, US 53, US 71, US 212 (west of Montevideo), MN 7, and MN 23 (southwest of Willmar).  Most of US 59 and US 75 were added in 2013.

US 212 is also 60 MPH on two-lane sections between Granite Falls and Chaska (except for sections through towns).

froggie

That would be the result of the recent speed studies, as noted in the last link I provided above.  The section west of Montevideo has been 60 MPH for about a decade now.

MNHighwayMan

#445
I took this picture (https://i.imgur.com/vZtyiNL.jpg) on MN-210 back on May 1st. I find it really interesting that the DOT posted an actual End sign for what should be a temporary closure. (I should note that this was coming from the west. There was no sign marking the temporary end coming from the east.)

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 04, 2016, 04:54:31 AM
I took this picture (https://i.imgur.com/vZtyiNL.jpg) on MN-210 back on May 1st. I find it really interesting that the DOT posted an actual End sign for what should be a temporary closure. (I should note that this was coming from the west. There was no sign marking the temporary end coming from the east.)

I noticed this too when I saw it last fall. I think it's because of two factors: one is the length of the 210 closure, which will mark its fourth year later this month, but the bigger thing I think is that MnDOT's stated preference was to not rebuild that section of road at all before public opinion from locals swayed them to do so.

It's amusing in another way because the END MN 210 shield at MN 23 is still there (and what reason would they have to remove it, since that open section of 210 doesn't go anywhere but a dead end at this point) so the road currently has two eastern terminus END shields within a five-mile span.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

texaskdog

I remember heading westbound on that stretch of 210 on a slightly snowy day and couldn't get up the hill.  we kept rolling back but there was no room to turn around.

Curious why there is a MN-39 instead of 210 just going to the border.

TheHighwayMan3561

#448
Quote from: texaskdog on June 04, 2016, 02:46:59 PM
I remember heading westbound on that stretch of 210 on a slightly snowy day and couldn't get up the hill.  we kept rolling back but there was no room to turn around.

Curious why there is a MN-39 instead of 210 just going to the border.

MN 39 is a holdover from the US 210 days. I believe 39 used to end at the current 210/MN 45 intersection in Carlton, which at the time was the intersection with old US 61. When US 210 was decommissioned MN 210 was extended over 39 to meet MN 23. But why the stub of 39 was kept I don't know.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

MNHighwayMan

#449
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 04, 2016, 05:46:30 AM

It's amusing in another way because the END MN 210 shield at MN 23 is still there (and what reason would they have to remove it, since that open section of 210 doesn't go anywhere but a dead end at this point) so the road currently has two eastern terminus END shields within a five-mile span.

Yep.

I also enjoyed the closed signs attached to the junction/direction signs on MN-23.



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