New York

[vdeane]

In theory, authorities aren't supposed to take ANY taxpayer dollars at all.  That's why they exist in the first place: to build something with bonds that are paid back through user fees.  The MTA has always been a money pit.  Several decades ago, the state tried to solve the money problem by dissolving the Triboro Bridge and Tunnel Authority into the MTA and using the bridges to subsidize it.  That did nothing to solve the MTA's financial woes... it did give us sky high bridge tolls and cancel the Long Island Sound Crossing.

The MTA is going to be a black hole until they fix their corruption issues.  If they will not do that willingly, then perhaps they should be dissolved and replaced with an agency.  An agency that the governor can control.  An agency where the governor could classify all critical job titles as non-union at stroke of a pen if they tried to strike (yes, the governor can DO that, and DID with IT staff just a few months ago).  If they want taxpayer dollars, it should come with assurances that the money won't just be thrown at big raises for some patronage jobs or some pet project that benefits Uncle Billy's construction firm more than it does riders.

Honestly, I'd at least be a little less fearful of this if we knew where it was coming from.  Between the Tappan Zee, LaGuardia, and this, that's $19 billion going to downstate.  That's a LOT of money.  And nobody has any idea where it's coming from.  Right now, my job is one the line until my union settles with the governor for the next contract... and all current indicators point towards a leadership that will hold out for as long as it takes to get big raises and a governor that won't humor them.  It's the 2011 mass layoff event all over again.

And just because the MTA's transit system is vital to NYC doesn't change the fact that the MTA itself is a slow, inefficient, corrupt, money black hole.

[noelbotevera]

In theory, authorities aren't supposed to take ANY taxpayer dollars at all.  That's why they exist in the first place: to build something with bonds that are paid back through user fees.  The MTA has always been a money pit.  Several decades ago, the state tried to solve the money problem by dissolving the Triboro Bridge and Tunnel Authority into the MTA and using the bridges to subsidize it.  That did nothing to solve the MTA's financial woes... it did give us sky high bridge tolls and cancel the Long Island Sound Crossing.

The MTA is going to be a black hole until they fix their corruption issues.  If they will not do that willingly, then perhaps they should be dissolved and replaced with an agency.  An agency that the governor can control.  An agency where the governor could classify all critical job titles as non-union at stroke of a pen if they tried to strike (yes, the governor can DO that, and DID with IT staff just a few months ago).  If they want taxpayer dollars, it should come with assurances that the money won't just be thrown at big raises for some patronage jobs or some pet project that benefits Uncle Billy's construction firm more than it does riders.

Honestly, I'd at least be a little less fearful of this if we knew where it was coming from.  Between the Tappan Zee, LaGuardia, and this, that's $19 billion going to downstate.  That's a LOT of money.  And nobody has any idea where it's coming from.  Right now, my job is one the line until my union settles with the governor for the next contract... and all current indicators point towards a leadership that will hold out for as long as it takes to get big raises and a governor that won't humor them.  It's the 2011 mass layoff event all over again.

And just because the MTA's transit system is vital to NYC doesn't change the fact that the MTA itself is a slow, inefficient, corrupt, money black hole.

It all dates from 1992.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/15/nyregion/cuomo-seeks-delay-in-5-year-program-for-transit-funds.html

That's the NY Times, dated January 15th, 1992. Cuomo delayed the MTA transit fund. 20 years later, the MTA still hasn't got their money and is still corrupt.

[cl94]

The biggest problem with the MTA right now is the chair. The chair was put in by Cuomo and has been fighting with the City and counties at every turn. Coming from the City's side, I completely understand the frustrations and the requirement that funds are set in stone before the City ups its contribution. The State has a long history of taking away funds earmarked toward the MTA and it makes good sense for the City to not commit anything until the State commits funding for a state authority. Certainly doesn't help that one of Prendergast's first orders of business was to gut capital funding for projects in the City. It has devolved into a political battle between Cuomo and de Blasio. The Chair politicized a flipping train derailment. Stating that "$8 Billion is going to the MTA" without context is quite absurd. The MTA should get more than that over the next few years, but that amount was guaranteed.

Also note that the LIRR and Metro-North are governed by different regulations than MUTCD. Those 2 are under the jurisdiction of the FRA and must follow laws and policies that apply to railroads. NYCTA is a public transit agency. The labor dispute was on the railroad side.

TL;DR: It's part of one giant political showdown between Cuomo and de Blasio. The MTA is merely a pawn, with the Chair being an agent of Cuomo.

[roadman65]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bay+Ridge,+Brooklyn,+NY/@40.605194,-74.029874,3a,66.8y,286.73h,96.79t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU55y3SnO0IElA34lRX15nw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c2455f3f1cab0d:0xa5a45198ea4d73d6

Why the hidden tolls for the Verrazano Bridge?  Is the TBTA ashamed at what they charge?

[noelbotevera]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bay+Ridge,+Brooklyn,+NY/@40.605194,-74.029874,3a,66.8y,286.73h,96.79t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU55y3SnO0IElA34lRX15nw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c2455f3f1cab0d:0xa5a45198ea4d73d6

Why the hidden tolls for the Verrazano Bridge?  Is the TBTA ashamed at what they charge?

It's due to the change in tolls for the bridge. I can't remember but there's a price under there ($11 if I remember). The patch must've only covered the amount, and the new amount wasn't put on the patch.

[cl94]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bay+Ridge,+Brooklyn,+NY/@40.605194,-74.029874,3a,66.8y,286.73h,96.79t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU55y3SnO0IElA34lRX15nw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c2455f3f1cab0d:0xa5a45198ea4d73d6

Why the hidden tolls for the Verrazano Bridge?  Is the TBTA ashamed at what they charge?

They're not going to post a $16 toll.

[Duke87]

In theory, authorities aren't supposed to take ANY taxpayer dollars at all.  That's why they exist in the first place: to build something with bonds that are paid back through user fees.  The MTA has always been a money pit.  Several decades ago, the state tried to solve the money problem by dissolving the Triboro Bridge and Tunnel Authority into the MTA and using the bridges to subsidize it.  That did nothing to solve the MTA's financial woes... it did give us sky high bridge tolls and cancel the Long Island Sound Crossing.

The MTA is going to be a black hole until they fix their corruption issues.  If they will not do that willingly, then perhaps they should be dissolved and replaced with an agency.  An agency that the governor can control.  An agency where the governor could classify all critical job titles as non-union at stroke of a pen if they tried to strike (yes, the governor can DO that, and DID with IT staff just a few months ago).  If they want taxpayer dollars, it should come with assurances that the money won't just be thrown at big raises for some patronage jobs or some pet project that benefits Uncle Billy's construction firm more than it does riders.

Dissolving the MTA and starting over won't change anything because the problem is bigger than just the MTA. As you hint at, there are union issues... that is, in fact, the root of all the trouble here. New York City has a well-established social pyramid with three castes:
1) Wall street types and other filthy rich people
2) Union members
3) Everyone else

Because union members are higher ranking citizens than everyone else, all government agencies in New York City serve their interests first and satisfy the interests of everyone else only to the degree that can be done while still giving the union members everything they want. So long as this remains the case the MTA or whatever you replace it with will be a money pit the same way everything else down here is.

[empirestate]

Because union members are higher ranking citizens than everyone else, all government agencies in New York City serve their interests first and satisfy the interests of everyone else only to the degree that can be done while still giving the union members everything they want. So long as this remains the case the MTA or whatever you replace it with will be a money pit the same way everything else down here is.

Cool, I didn't realize the city was giving me everything I want! When can I pick it up?

[SidS1045]

Several decades ago, the state tried to solve the money problem by dissolving the Triboro Bridge and Tunnel Authority into the MTA and using the bridges to subsidize it.  That did nothing to solve the MTA's financial woes... it did give us sky high bridge tolls and cancel the Long Island Sound Crossing.

Money wasn't the sole reason for doing that.  In fact, it could be argued that it was a very much secondary consideration.  A much greater benefit of that move, in the eyes of Gov. Nelson Rockefeller, was to put an end once and for all to Robert Moses' last remaining political power base, which was the TBTA.  No one who was around NY politics at the time had any delusions about any kind of budget balancing or using revenues from some properties to subsidize others.  They all knew what was going on...all except Moses.

Rockefeller executed his plan brilliantly.  At the time he announced the formation of the MTA, Moses was dead set against it, using his tired argument that it was a violation of the contracts with TBTA bond holders.  What got Moses to change his mind and come out in favor of the merger was Rockefeller's verbal promise that Moses would hold a high-ranking position at the MTA.  Having secured his support, Rockefeller simply stopped taking Moses' phone calls, and when the TBTA ceased to exist Moses had nothing left.

Motorists, of course, footed the bill (and continue to do so) for this power play.

[Roadgeek Adam]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bay+Ridge,+Brooklyn,+NY/@40.605194,-74.029874,3a,66.8y,286.73h,96.79t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU55y3SnO0IElA34lRX15nw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c2455f3f1cab0d:0xa5a45198ea4d73d6

Why the hidden tolls for the Verrazano Bridge?  Is the TBTA ashamed at what they charge?

It's due to the change in tolls for the bridge. I can't remember but there's a price under there ($11 if I remember). The patch must've only covered the amount, and the new amount wasn't put on the patch.

I can't guarantee it, but I think it's $13 under there. I seem to remember $13 being posted.

Also not posting it means they can get some money from people who don't know it's $16. It's a shrewd move, but one that's not illegal. 

[Duke87]

Because union members are higher ranking citizens than everyone else, all government agencies in New York City serve their interests first and satisfy the interests of everyone else only to the degree that can be done while still giving the union members everything they want. So long as this remains the case the MTA or whatever you replace it with will be a money pit the same way everything else down here is.

Cool, I didn't realize the city was giving me everything I want! When can I pick it up?

Right here!

Anyways, point is - unions have bargaining power far beyond what the rest of the general public has. And, in New York, they also have a government that is generally unwilling to fight them too hard because it would be politically unpopular. The end result is that there is a significant disparity in whose interests are served. Subway trains continue to be staffed by two people despite the fact that plenty of major systems in the world have managed to get by with one, because the TWU would raise fucking hell if the MTA attempted to lay the extra workers off. Tollbooths continue to be staffed by more people than there are cash lanes open despite the ready availability of technology for them to be staffed by zero people, for the same basic reason. And when the MTA's capital budget balloons out to crazy levels the fuss is all over where to get the money from and never about why New York City has literally the highest urban rail construction costs in the world, because peeling that onion would reveal that a lot of it is the union construction workers demanding high staffing levels and getting work done slowly compared to their brethren elsewhere (even their unionized brethren elsewhere!).

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't want to see all these people forced to work in sweatshop conditions for shit pay and I acknowledge that unions play a significant role in preventing that. But NYC's unions have extended their power far beyond preventing management abuse and well into absolving themselves of accountability for anything and preserving the existence of obsolete jobs.

[roadman65]

Speaking of Unions, does LIRR still do their annual walkout? 

Back when I was living in NJ (North Jersey listens to NY radio and TV) from my birth to 1990, it seems like every time you turned around the LIRR always was on strike.  They struck more than any other transit agency around, including the MTA, the cabbies, and even PATH.  They were always famous for having crybabies and used in many jokes among people for the amount of strikes they were always doing.

I was wondering since I left 25 years ago, if the unions for that railroad still do their frequent striking or did they finally get tired of it or something else?

[empirestate]

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't want to see all these people forced to work in sweatshop conditions for shit pay and I acknowledge that unions play a significant role in preventing that. But NYC's unions have extended their power far beyond preventing management abuse and well into absolving themselves of accountability for anything and preserving the existence of obsolete jobs.

Yeah, my union doesn't have anywhere near that kind of potency, though they raise a stink when necessary, and have gotten some things done. But it's one of "NYC's unions", hence my joke indicating how what you describe doesn't match my experience in reality. Unions, like everything else in the world, can be done well or they can be done poorly, or somewhere in between. NYC's unions don't fall totally into one category or the other, naturally, and so while I understand your inclination to generalize for brevity's sake, you can see how that sometimes means the argument doesn't ring true for those instances that are outside the generality.

[cl94]

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't want to see all these people forced to work in sweatshop conditions for shit pay and I acknowledge that unions play a significant role in preventing that. But NYC's unions have extended their power far beyond preventing management abuse and well into absolving themselves of accountability for anything and preserving the existence of obsolete jobs.

Yeah, my union doesn't have anywhere near that kind of potency, though they raise a stink when necessary, and have gotten some things done. But it's one of "NYC's unions", hence my joke indicating how what you describe doesn't match my experience in reality. Unions, like everything else in the world, can be done well or they can be done poorly, or somewhere in between. NYC's unions don't fall totally into one category or the other, naturally, and so while I understand your inclination to generalize for brevity's sake, you can see how that sometimes means the argument doesn't ring true for those instances that are outside the generality.

I have to agree. There are a few strong unions in New York. The teacher's union is one. It's impossible to fire a teacher, even if they cause physical harm to a student. Transit union is quite strong as well. Most of the transit union's strength comes from the fact that the US economy tanks whenever they aren't on the job.

Most unions, however, are not. And I disagree about the Wall Street types as well. Most of them aren't above the average citizen. It's the government officials and those friendly with them who have the power more than anything else.

[Buffaboy]

The time has come – the Utica Arterial (southbound) is now open:

http://www.uticaod.com/article/20151022/NEWS/151029769

Granted they still have to shift the lanes eastward in the spring, but for the most part it's up and running.

I can't wait to get on it.

[machias]

The time has come – the Utica Arterial (southbound) is now open:

http://www.uticaod.com/article/20151022/NEWS/151029769

Granted they still have to shift the lanes eastward in the spring, but for the most part it's up and running.

I can't wait to get on it.

Drove on it this afternoon. The Court St ramp is still blocked off and the striping indicates no lane changes at the moment, but it's always cool to get the new view off a new bridge.

[Buffaboy]

The time has come – the Utica Arterial (southbound) is now open:

http://www.uticaod.com/article/20151022/NEWS/151029769

Granted they still have to shift the lanes eastward in the spring, but for the most part it's up and running.

I can't wait to get on it.

Drove on it this afternoon. The Court St ramp is still blocked off and the striping indicates no lane changes at the moment, but it's always cool to get the new view off a new bridge.

...and now GSV has updated Utica area imagery for 2015.

[vdeane]

That might just be part of the Arterial.  I've been noticing imagery dated 2015 randomly popping up (sometimes only for one frame on a route) but never any blocks of areas with the new imagery.  Not sure what's going on, but Google usually takes at least a year to get updated imagery out after they drive it.

[froggie]

Google Earth aerial imagery for the Utica area is dated this past May.  Could that be what Buffaboy was referring to?

[Buffaboy]

Well, I know the aerials are updated, but I also noticed in addition to the Arterial that they updated Genesee St. as well. Honestly, I don't understand the methodology and routing they implement to update the images.

[J N Winkler]

D262955 (NY 17/I-81 in Binghamton) is now advertised, and for me represents 3.06 GB of last Monday's 4.03 GB NYSDOT construction plans download.  I haven't attempted to go through the 8 volumes of plans in any detail yet, but I count 80 tasty pages of signface layouts.

[route17fan]

D262955 (NY 17/I-81 in Binghamton) is now advertised, and for me represents 3.06 GB of last Monday's 4.03 GB NYSDOT construction plans download.  I haven't attempted to go through the 8 volumes of plans in any detail yet, but I count 80 tasty pages of signface layouts.

They are quite tasty indeed

[NJRoadfan]

That might just be part of the Arterial.  I've been noticing imagery dated 2015 randomly popping up (sometimes only for one frame on a route) but never any blocks of areas with the new imagery.  Not sure what's going on, but Google usually takes at least a year to get updated imagery out after they drive it.

They are much quicker at updating StreetView nowadays. New stuff appears as little as 2 months around here.

[cl94]

Intersection of US 11, NY 26, and NY 79 in Whitney is being reconstructed and widened as part of a project to replace the NY 26/79 bridge over the Tioughnioga River. Each approach is getting a dedicated left turn lane and a 4-lens FYA for left turns. NB US 11/NY 26 is getting a dedicated right turn lane, as well.

[steviep24]

Seems like all the new signals region 4 is installing have reflectorized backplates and FYA's.