New York

[cl94]

Why didn't they build I-86 along NY-417?

They built it along NY 17. Most of it was built as NY 17, with most of the expressway long predating the designation of I-86. The section west of Jamestown was planned and built later with the plan for an Interstate designation. The original end of NY 17 was at I-90 Exit 60, which is why there's the stub running up the east side of the lake.

OK then, why didn't they build NY 17 along NY 417?

In other words, why did Route 17 get moved from where NY 417 is now up to where I-86 is now? Why does the freeway go through Angelica and Hornell but not Wellsville and Addison?

Population. It was thought that a freeway connection to Hornell would be more useful than a route through the middle of nowhere. Much of this route followed a rail line through a series of valleys. Bath and Hornell are the major centers of population in Steuben County outside of Corning and a direct expressway provided a connection between all 3. The only real population center along the old route is Wellsville. Had the effect of preventing another situation like that in Ithaca, where there is no expressway connection remotely close to the city and the only access is on steep, winding 2-lane roads.

Wellsville once lobbied hard for an "I-386."  This was a spur down to Wellsville to accommodate what I think was an ALCO plant, IIRC.  Lots of meetings were had.  I know someone at NYSDOT who ended up with a cardboard-but-compelling I-386 shield from that failed lobbying effort.

If built, it would have been the New York equivalent of Illinois's I-180

Everyone needs an I-180.

Well, one could say we have one in the form of the Lake Ontario State Parkway and Robert Moses Parkway

[Rothman]

Why didn't they build I-86 along NY-417?

They built it along NY 17. Most of it was built as NY 17, with most of the expressway long predating the designation of I-86. The section west of Jamestown was planned and built later with the plan for an Interstate designation. The original end of NY 17 was at I-90 Exit 60, which is why there's the stub running up the east side of the lake.

OK then, why didn't they build NY 17 along NY 417?

In other words, why did Route 17 get moved from where NY 417 is now up to where I-86 is now? Why does the freeway go through Angelica and Hornell but not Wellsville and Addison?

Population. It was thought that a freeway connection to Hornell would be more useful than a route through the middle of nowhere. Much of this route followed a rail line through a series of valleys. Bath and Hornell are the major centers of population in Steuben County outside of Corning and a direct expressway provided a connection between all 3. The only real population center along the old route is Wellsville. Had the effect of preventing another situation like that in Ithaca, where there is no expressway connection remotely close to the city and the only access is on steep, winding 2-lane roads.

Wellsville once lobbied hard for an "I-386."  This was a spur down to Wellsville to accommodate what I think was an ALCO plant, IIRC.  Lots of meetings were had.  I know someone at NYSDOT who ended up with a cardboard-but-compelling I-386 shield from that failed lobbying effort.

If built, it would have been the New York equivalent of Illinois's I-180

Everyone needs an I-180.

Well, one could say we have one in the form of the Lake Ontario State Parkway and Robert Moses Parkway

Heh.  The old, blocked-off lanes of the Robert Moses always makes me shake my head.  What a waste.

[Alps]

Why didn't they build I-86 along NY-417?

They built it along NY 17. Most of it was built as NY 17, with most of the expressway long predating the designation of I-86. The section west of Jamestown was planned and built later with the plan for an Interstate designation. The original end of NY 17 was at I-90 Exit 60, which is why there's the stub running up the east side of the lake.

OK then, why didn't they build NY 17 along NY 417?

In other words, why did Route 17 get moved from where NY 417 is now up to where I-86 is now? Why does the freeway go through Angelica and Hornell but not Wellsville and Addison?

Population. It was thought that a freeway connection to Hornell would be more useful than a route through the middle of nowhere. Much of this route followed a rail line through a series of valleys. Bath and Hornell are the major centers of population in Steuben County outside of Corning and a direct expressway provided a connection between all 3. The only real population center along the old route is Wellsville. Had the effect of preventing another situation like that in Ithaca, where there is no expressway connection remotely close to the city and the only access is on steep, winding 2-lane roads.

Wellsville once lobbied hard for an "I-386."  This was a spur down to Wellsville to accommodate what I think was an ALCO plant, IIRC.  Lots of meetings were had.  I know someone at NYSDOT who ended up with a cardboard-but-compelling I-386 shield from that failed lobbying effort.

If built, it would have been the New York equivalent of Illinois's I-180

Everyone needs an I-180.

U-206: I-180? Also, DUAAF.

[froggie]

Everyone needs an I-180.

Still waiting for my I-391 (VT already has a Route 191)...

[RobbieL2415]

Why didn't they build I-86 along NY-417?

They built it along NY 17. Most of it was built as NY 17, with most of the expressway long predating the designation of I-86. The section west of Jamestown was planned and built later with the plan for an Interstate designation. The original end of NY 17 was at I-90 Exit 60, which is why there's the stub running up the east side of the lake.

OK then, why didn't they build NY 17 along NY 417?

In other words, why did Route 17 get moved from where NY 417 is now up to where I-86 is now? Why does the freeway go through Angelica and Hornell but not Wellsville and Addison?

Population. It was thought that a freeway connection to Hornell would be more useful than a route through the middle of nowhere. Much of this route followed a rail line through a series of valleys. Bath and Hornell are the major centers of population in Steuben County outside of Corning and a direct expressway provided a connection between all 3. The only real population center along the old route is Wellsville. Had the effect of preventing another situation like that in Ithaca, where there is no expressway connection remotely close to the city and the only access is on steep, winding 2-lane roads.

Wellsville once lobbied hard for an "I-386."  This was a spur down to Wellsville to accommodate what I think was an ALCO plant, IIRC.  Lots of meetings were had.  I know someone at NYSDOT who ended up with a cardboard-but-compelling I-386 shield from that failed lobbying effort.

If built, it would have been the New York equivalent of Illinois's I-180

Everyone needs an I-180.

Well, one could say we have one in the form of the Lake Ontario State Parkway and Robert Moses Parkway

Heh.  The old, blocked-off lanes of the Robert Moses always makes me shake my head.  What a waste.

I wonder if they'll do the same thing to the Lake Ontario State Parkway.  Half of it is already closed during the winter.

[cl94]

Why didn't they build I-86 along NY-417?

They built it along NY 17. Most of it was built as NY 17, with most of the expressway long predating the designation of I-86. The section west of Jamestown was planned and built later with the plan for an Interstate designation. The original end of NY 17 was at I-90 Exit 60, which is why there's the stub running up the east side of the lake.

OK then, why didn't they build NY 17 along NY 417?

In other words, why did Route 17 get moved from where NY 417 is now up to where I-86 is now? Why does the freeway go through Angelica and Hornell but not Wellsville and Addison?

Population. It was thought that a freeway connection to Hornell would be more useful than a route through the middle of nowhere. Much of this route followed a rail line through a series of valleys. Bath and Hornell are the major centers of population in Steuben County outside of Corning and a direct expressway provided a connection between all 3. The only real population center along the old route is Wellsville. Had the effect of preventing another situation like that in Ithaca, where there is no expressway connection remotely close to the city and the only access is on steep, winding 2-lane roads.

Wellsville once lobbied hard for an "I-386."  This was a spur down to Wellsville to accommodate what I think was an ALCO plant, IIRC.  Lots of meetings were had.  I know someone at NYSDOT who ended up with a cardboard-but-compelling I-386 shield from that failed lobbying effort.

If built, it would have been the New York equivalent of Illinois's I-180

Everyone needs an I-180.

Well, one could say we have one in the form of the Lake Ontario State Parkway and Robert Moses Parkway

Heh.  The old, blocked-off lanes of the Robert Moses always makes me shake my head.  What a waste.

I wonder if they'll do the same thing to the Lake Ontario State Parkway.  Half of it is already closed during the winter.

One exit is closed. East of NY 260 actually gets a relatively-decent amount of traffic. All of that portion gets more traffic than the super-two portion of the Robert Moses Parkway. Probably mostly people who would be cutting down to NY 104, which is a mess as it is. I don't know if it's really worth keeping 4 lanes, but the ability to pass is nice.

[vdeane]

Yeah, it's only from NY 18 to NY 98 that's closed.  It's west of Hamlin Beach that traffic really drops off and gets to an AADT less than 2000.  The section in Orleans County is very desolate.

[cl94]

Yeah, it's only from NY 18 to NY 98 that's closed.  It's west of Hamlin Beach that traffic really drops off and gets to an AADT less than 2000.  The section in Orleans County is very desolate.

It's in the middle of nowhere and there are zero attractions other than the state parks. All farmland and vineyards. NY 18 between the parkway and Olcott is a little over 1000. Other than spikes around Olcott and Wilson, it stays pretty low until it turns south near Youngstown. To give one an idea of how desolate it really is, NY 279 just west of where the parkway ends has an AADT slightly higher than NY 421.

[Buffaboy]

Yeah, it's only from NY 18 to NY 98 that's closed.  It's west of Hamlin Beach that traffic really drops off and gets to an AADT less than 2000.  The section in Orleans County is very desolate.

It's in the middle of nowhere and there are zero attractions other than the state parks. All farmland and vineyards. NY 18 between the parkway and Olcott is a little over 1000. Other than spikes around Olcott and Wilson, it stays pretty low until it turns south near Youngstown. To give one an idea of how desolate it really is, NY 279 just west of where the parkway ends has an AADT slightly higher than NY 421.

What was the rationale behind constructing the LOSP? Projected population growth?

The only use I could see it for (if fully completed) is for people living in northern Rochester to get to Canada faster.

[machias]

Yeah, it's only from NY 18 to NY 98 that's closed.  It's west of Hamlin Beach that traffic really drops off and gets to an AADT less than 2000.  The section in Orleans County is very desolate.

It's in the middle of nowhere and there are zero attractions other than the state parks. All farmland and vineyards. NY 18 between the parkway and Olcott is a little over 1000. Other than spikes around Olcott and Wilson, it stays pretty low until it turns south near Youngstown. To give one an idea of how desolate it really is, NY 279 just west of where the parkway ends has an AADT slightly higher than NY 421.

I love the LOSP, especially west of Hamlin Beach. I drive as far as I can on that road all year round because it's very "centering" to me as a road geek and just in general.  The only thing that I don't like about the road is the new signs they put up a couple of years ago. It was much more charming back in the button copy days.

[cl94]

Yeah, it's only from NY 18 to NY 98 that's closed.  It's west of Hamlin Beach that traffic really drops off and gets to an AADT less than 2000.  The section in Orleans County is very desolate.

It's in the middle of nowhere and there are zero attractions other than the state parks. All farmland and vineyards. NY 18 between the parkway and Olcott is a little over 1000. Other than spikes around Olcott and Wilson, it stays pretty low until it turns south near Youngstown. To give one an idea of how desolate it really is, NY 279 just west of where the parkway ends has an AADT slightly higher than NY 421.

I love the LOSP, especially west of Hamlin Beach. I drive as far as I can on that road all year round because it's very "centering" to me as a road geek and just in general.  The only thing that I don't like about the road is the new signs they put up a couple of years ago. It was much more charming back in the button copy days.

They got rid of the rest of the button copy? Darn. I loved the button copy.

What was the rationale behind constructing the LOSP? Projected population growth?

Connection between the parks and to get people to the parks. Same as the original purpose of the other parkways.

[Bumppoman]

Yeah, it's only from NY 18 to NY 98 that's closed.  It's west of Hamlin Beach that traffic really drops off and gets to an AADT less than 2000.  The section in Orleans County is very desolate.

It's in the middle of nowhere and there are zero attractions other than the state parks. All farmland and vineyards. NY 18 between the parkway and Olcott is a little over 1000. Other than spikes around Olcott and Wilson, it stays pretty low until it turns south near Youngstown. To give one an idea of how desolate it really is, NY 279 just west of where the parkway ends has an AADT slightly higher than NY 421.

I love the LOSP, especially west of Hamlin Beach. I drive as far as I can on that road all year round because it's very "centering" to me as a road geek and just in general.  The only thing that I don't like about the road is the new signs they put up a couple of years ago. It was much more charming back in the button copy days.

They got rid of the rest of the button copy? Darn. I loved the button copy.

What was the rationale behind constructing the LOSP? Projected population growth?

Connection between the parks and to get people to the parks. Same as the original purpose of the other parkways.

Plus it was supposed to connect to the Robert Moses in Youngstown.  That would have made the remote sections more travelled as a long-haul route, at least.

[cl94]

I'm taking a little trip downstate tomorrow to get some White Castle in Nyack. Other than the Tappan Zee work, NY 17 and US 202/Bear Mountain Parkway, is there anything major that has happened in Region 8 in the past ~5 years that would be worth checking out?

[Roadgeek Adam]

I'm taking a little trip downstate tomorrow to get some White Castle in Nyack. Other than the Tappan Zee work, NY 17 and US 202/Bear Mountain Parkway, is there anything major that has happened in Region 8 in the past ~5 years that would be worth checking out?

Is it worth that much hassle to get White Castle?

Also, if you go down via the Taconic, grab the last existing vestige of the old exit numbering system at P7 in Putnam County. (Hortontown Hill Road)

[RobbieL2415]

I'm taking a little trip downstate tomorrow to get some White Castle in Nyack. Other than the Tappan Zee work, NY 17 and US 202/Bear Mountain Parkway, is there anything major that has happened in Region 8 in the past ~5 years that would be worth checking out?

Is it worth that much hassle to get White Castle?

Also, if you go down via the Taconic, grab the last existing vestige of the old exit numbering system at P7 in Putnam County. (Hortontown Hill Road)

Why not buy some local meat and produce and the Todd Hill rest stop and cook at home instead?

[paulthemapguy]

Is it worth that much hassle to get White Castle?

Did you mean for that to rhyme in perfect poetic rhythm?  That was awesome lolol

[cl94]

For years, people have debated whether or not we should consider the northern end of I-787 to be in Troy or at Exit 9. Well, Region 1 replaced the WB reassurance shields within the last year. Noticed the Series C this morning. Does this settle the debate?

[empirestate]

For years, people have debated whether or not we should consider the northern end of I-787 to be in Troy or at Exit 9. Well, Region 1 replaced the WB reassurance shields within the last year. Noticed the Series C this morning. Does this settle the debate?

Nope.

[Rothman]

For years, people have debated whether or not we should consider the northern end of I-787 to be in Troy or at Exit 9. Well, Region 1 replaced the WB reassurance shields within the last year. Noticed the Series C this morning. Does this settle the debate?

*golf claps*

[Mr. Matté]

For years, people have debated whether or not we should consider the northern end of I-787 to be in Troy or at Exit 9. Well, Region 1 replaced the WB reassurance shields within the last year. Noticed the Series C this morning. Does this settle the debate?

This also helps.

[noelbotevera]

For years, people have debated whether or not we should consider the northern end of I-787 to be in Troy or at Exit 9. Well, Region 1 replaced the WB reassurance shields within the last year. Noticed the Series C this morning. Does this settle the debate?

This also helps.

This too.

[xcellntbuy]

Original BGS when the "alternate" NY 7 opened in 1986.

[Alps]

For years, people have debated whether or not we should consider the northern end of I-787 to be in Troy or at Exit 9. Well, Region 1 replaced the WB reassurance shields within the last year. Noticed the Series C this morning. Does this settle the debate?

There was never a debate. It always ended in Troy.

[vdeane]

As far as the official definition, I-787 always has ended in Troy.  Where the debate is how it's signed today.  The reference markers don't mean anything for multiple reasons:
-Reference markers are used for internal inventory purposes and no correlation to signage is required (especially in the cases of reference routes and touring routes that officially go a way different than what is signed, such as NY 12E and NY 324)
-I-787 was fully signed into Troy back before the NY 7 freeway and NY 787 were built (also not under debate)
-Reference markers don't change when route designations do (well, they're not supposed to, but sometimes they do (see: I-390 in southern Livingston County))

In any case: note that the only signage is on NY 7 WB.  NY 7 EB, NY 787 SB, and I-787 NB do NOT mention I-787 going over the Collar City Bridge.  At all... not even this brand new one that can't be much older than that reassurance shield.

[empirestate]

Those of you following the ongoing I-86 projects, do yourself a favor and point Google Earth (or Google Maps in Earth mode) to the I-81/I-86 interchange in Binghamton. 3D-rendered imagery has just been released showing the Kamikaze Curve/Prospect Mountain project in a very recent state of near-completion.

https://goo.gl/maps/ufHzgM1U8Y52