New York

[machias]

I remember reading that it would have come out a couple miles south of I-481 (why there and not at I-481, I have no idea).

As a kid I had a map of the area (1978 or so) and I-481 was proposed to meet up with the eastern NY 5 stub. As others have mentioned, too much development in the way now. That's the first I've heard of the expressway meeting up with 81 south of the current 481 interchange, that would have been interesting.

If they go ahead with tearing down the viaduct and going with the boulevard approach, I bet a lot of motorists are going to wish that missing connection of the "beltway" connecting 481 to the route 5 stub was in place.

[cl94]

If they go ahead with tearing down the viaduct and going with the boulevard approach, I bet a lot of motorists are going to wish that missing connection of the "beltway" connecting 481 to the route 5 stub was in place.

Of course, even if that's the selected alternative, AASHTO would still have to approve the decommissioning and route change, so there is hope.

[vdeane]

I remember reading that it would have come out a couple miles south of I-481 (why there and not at I-481, I have no idea).

As a kid I had a map of the area (1978 or so) and I-481 was proposed to meet up with the eastern NY 5 stub. As others have mentioned, too much development in the way now. That's the first I've heard of the expressway meeting up with 81 south of the current 481 interchange, that would have been interesting.

If they go ahead with tearing down the viaduct and going with the boulevard approach, I bet a lot of motorists are going to wish that missing connection of the "beltway" connecting 481 to the route 5 stub was in place.

That connection would go a long way to making the boulevard alternative more viable.  I-81 would move onto I-481, I-481 would move onto I-81 from I-690 to I-481, I-281 would be added on the west side from I-81 to I-690 via the unbuilt connection, and NY 695 could just be removed as it would be replaced with I-281; NY 5 would remain where it is.

I could have sworn I read about the 2 miles south thing on either your site or Empire State Roads.

[Buffaboy]

Personal opinion stressed, but I could think of worse projects than an I-481/NY-5 connection. Imagine if the central planners had gone through and connected I-990 to NY-400 via US-62, or NY-5 in Buffalo to NY-425 via Delaware Ave and massive eminent domain (both were planned). Thankfully that didn't happen.

[WNYroadgeek]

Say goodbye to two miles of the Robert Moses Parkway:

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced that New York State will replace an underutilized two-mile stretch of the Robert Moses Parkway North in Niagara Falls with open space, scenic overlooks and recreational trails to make the waterfront more accessible to residents, tourists and visitors alike. The project marks the largest expansion of green space since the Niagara Reservation was designed in 1885, and will link the Niagara River Gorge and Falls into a single destination to allow easier access to the water's edge.

The project will remove an underutilized two-mile segment of the parkway from Main Street to Findlay Drive. It will include a reconstruction of Whirlpool Street, which will be redesigned into a two-lane street to provide all north-south access to the section of the Niagara Gorge Corridor closest to the parkway.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-42-million-project-remove-two-mile-stretch-robert-moses-parkway-and

And they're even taking submissions for a new name:

The Robert Moses Parkway naming competition will accept online submissions until 5 p.m. on April 30, 2016. The winning name will be selected by a panel comprised of state representatives and members of the local community. The new name will be unveiled on a permanent sign during an official ribbon-cutting event when the project is complete. Suggestions can be submitted at http://go.ny.gov/Niagara.

[cl94]

Say goodbye to two miles of the Robert Moses Parkway:

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced that New York State will replace an underutilized two-mile stretch of the Robert Moses Parkway North in Niagara Falls with open space, scenic overlooks and recreational trails to make the waterfront more accessible to residents, tourists and visitors alike. The project marks the largest expansion of green space since the Niagara Reservation was designed in 1885, and will link the Niagara River Gorge and Falls into a single destination to allow easier access to the water's edge.

The project will remove an underutilized two-mile segment of the parkway from Main Street to Findlay Drive. It will include a reconstruction of Whirlpool Street, which will be redesigned into a two-lane street to provide all north-south access to the section of the Niagara Gorge Corridor closest to the parkway.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-42-million-project-remove-two-mile-stretch-robert-moses-parkway-and

And they're even taking submissions for a new name:

The Robert Moses Parkway naming competition will accept online submissions until 5 p.m. on April 30, 2016. The winning name will be selected by a panel comprised of state representatives and members of the local community. The new name will be unveiled on a permanent sign during an official ribbon-cutting event when the project is complete. Suggestions can be submitted at http://go.ny.gov/Niagara.

We've known this was probably coming for a year or so. Not having to redeck/reconstruct the Whirlpool Bridge viaduct (which would need it) will almost pay for the project. Unlike many expressway removal plans, this one actually makes sense. Entire thing is prime parkland and it is completely redundant.

[froggie]

Regarding early Syracuse proposals, hopefully this map clears some things up:



I found this map in an early 1970s (1971?) transportation plan for the Syracuse area.  Nothing was planned west of Camillus (I believe the extension to Auburn was proposed in the 1950s but hasn't been seriously considered since 1970).  The extension to I-81, as shown in the map, was indeed south of I-481, though it should be noted that mid-1960s proposals considered building I-481 to meet I-81 at this southern location instead of its existing location.

There were a number of possible plans considered for routing NY 5 between the east end of the freeway and downtown Syracuse.  These included a one-way pair or limited-access arterial utilizing parts of W. Genessee St and/or Erie Blvd, a freeway routing along W. Genessee St or Erie Blvd, and a freeway running south towards Onondaga Blvd, then east towards downtown Syracuse.  This last option prevailed through the mid '70s, and some of the routing can be seen on aerial imagery as a space between developments in Westvale between the end of the freeway and Onondaga Blvd.  Near Onondaga Blvd, this freeway would have turned east, and would have been either a freeway or limited-access arterial paralleling either Grand Ave or Onondaga Blvd/Onondaga St east to either Geddes St or possibly as far as West St.  Eventually, all options for extension or expansion were dropped.

[vdeane]

Say goodbye to two miles of the Robert Moses Parkway:

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced that New York State will replace an underutilized two-mile stretch of the Robert Moses Parkway North in Niagara Falls with open space, scenic overlooks and recreational trails to make the waterfront more accessible to residents, tourists and visitors alike. The project marks the largest expansion of green space since the Niagara Reservation was designed in 1885, and will link the Niagara River Gorge and Falls into a single destination to allow easier access to the water's edge.

The project will remove an underutilized two-mile segment of the parkway from Main Street to Findlay Drive. It will include a reconstruction of Whirlpool Street, which will be redesigned into a two-lane street to provide all north-south access to the section of the Niagara Gorge Corridor closest to the parkway.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-42-million-project-remove-two-mile-stretch-robert-moses-parkway-and

And they're even taking submissions for a new name:

The Robert Moses Parkway naming competition will accept online submissions until 5 p.m. on April 30, 2016. The winning name will be selected by a panel comprised of state representatives and members of the local community. The new name will be unveiled on a permanent sign during an official ribbon-cutting event when the project is complete. Suggestions can be submitted at http://go.ny.gov/Niagara.

We've known this was probably coming for a year or so. Not having to redeck/reconstruct the Whirlpool Bridge viaduct (which would need it) will almost pay for the project. Unlike many expressway removal plans, this one actually makes sense. Entire thing is prime parkland and it is completely redundant.

The question is: what do they plan to do with the rest of it?  Leave it as a "work zone" forever?  Reconstruct what's currently there in a way that doesn't scream "we just plopped some jersey barriers on the road and called it done"?  Rebuild as it was?  Mix?

One beef with this: it was awfully wasteful to reconstruct the part from Main St to the geological museum only to rip it out.  If they weren't sure they were going to keep that section, they should have held off.

I wonder if the renaming is for the whole parkway or just a part of it.  I thought it was already decided to rename it Niagara Scenic Parkway though?

[cl94]

Say goodbye to two miles of the Robert Moses Parkway:

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced that New York State will replace an underutilized two-mile stretch of the Robert Moses Parkway North in Niagara Falls with open space, scenic overlooks and recreational trails to make the waterfront more accessible to residents, tourists and visitors alike. The project marks the largest expansion of green space since the Niagara Reservation was designed in 1885, and will link the Niagara River Gorge and Falls into a single destination to allow easier access to the water's edge.

The project will remove an underutilized two-mile segment of the parkway from Main Street to Findlay Drive. It will include a reconstruction of Whirlpool Street, which will be redesigned into a two-lane street to provide all north-south access to the section of the Niagara Gorge Corridor closest to the parkway.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-42-million-project-remove-two-mile-stretch-robert-moses-parkway-and

And they're even taking submissions for a new name:

The Robert Moses Parkway naming competition will accept online submissions until 5 p.m. on April 30, 2016. The winning name will be selected by a panel comprised of state representatives and members of the local community. The new name will be unveiled on a permanent sign during an official ribbon-cutting event when the project is complete. Suggestions can be submitted at http://go.ny.gov/Niagara.

We've known this was probably coming for a year or so. Not having to redeck/reconstruct the Whirlpool Bridge viaduct (which would need it) will almost pay for the project. Unlike many expressway removal plans, this one actually makes sense. Entire thing is prime parkland and it is completely redundant.

The question is: what do they plan to do with the rest of it?  Leave it as a "work zone" forever?  Reconstruct what's currently there in a way that doesn't scream "we just plopped some jersey barriers on the road and called it done"?  Rebuild as it was?  Mix?

One beef with this: it was awfully wasteful to reconstruct the part from Main St to the geological museum only to rip it out.  If they weren't sure they were going to keep that section, they should have held off.

I wonder if the renaming is for the whole parkway or just a part of it.  I thought it was already decided to rename it Niagara Scenic Parkway though?

From what my parents have said, Buffalo media makes it appear that the entire thing is being renamed.

I honestly have no idea why the part south of the discovery center was redone. Granted, the "rip out" alternative was just that, an alternative, but it was an alternative that made a lot of sense. When they get around to ripping it out in 2018, it will have been in that configuration for 6 years.

As far as the rest, who knows. Other than the portion over the dam, it serves a purpose.

[machias]

Regarding early Syracuse proposals, hopefully this map clears some things up:



I found this map in an early 1970s (1971?) transportation plan for the Syracuse area.  Nothing was planned west of Camillus (I believe the extension to Auburn was proposed in the 1950s but hasn't been seriously considered since 1970).  The extension to I-81, as shown in the map, was indeed south of I-481, though it should be noted that mid-1960s proposals considered building I-481 to meet I-81 at this southern location instead of its existing location.

There were a number of possible plans considered for routing NY 5 between the east end of the freeway and downtown Syracuse.  These included a one-way pair or limited-access arterial utilizing parts of W. Genessee St and/or Erie Blvd, a freeway routing along W. Genessee St or Erie Blvd, and a freeway running south towards Onondaga Blvd, then east towards downtown Syracuse.  This last option prevailed through the mid '70s, and some of the routing can be seen on aerial imagery as a space between developments in Westvale between the end of the freeway and Onondaga Blvd.  Near Onondaga Blvd, this freeway would have turned east, and would have been either a freeway or limited-access arterial paralleling either Grand Ave or Onondaga Blvd/Onondaga St east to either Geddes St or possibly as far as West St.  Eventually, all options for extension or expansion were dropped.

Wow, that's a very interesting map. Now I wish I had saved the map I had with the loop meeting up with 481 at 81 Exit 16A. Ah, the mistakes of youth. 

A couple of things on that map image:
* Henry Clay Blvd. is marked as 7th North St. -- did 7th North Street ever go out where Henry Clay Blvd is?
* Mattydale is marked to be in Eastwood. This is interesting, because I always remembered a sign on US Route 11 South just south of the Northern Lights circle (marked Mattydale Oval here) that said "Hinsdale".

[Duke87]

If they go ahead with tearing down the viaduct and going with the boulevard approach, I bet a lot of motorists are going to wish that missing connection of the "beltway" connecting 481 to the route 5 stub was in place.

Of course, even if that's the selected alternative, AASHTO would still have to approve the decommissioning and route change, so there is hope.

AASHTO declining to approve the route change won't stop NYSDOT from tearing down the viaduct if that's what they decide to do.

It will then merely mean that I-81 is a gap in it, and if you think this is a situation no one with decision making power will accept, I point you to the gap in I-95 that has existed for decades.

[Rothman]

AASHTO has no direct control over funding whatsoever and certainly doesn't keep NYSDOT or any other DOT from doing anything (e.g., didn't I-26 signs go up in Tennessee before the formal change from I-181 to I-26?).  It's a lobbying organization foremost and a loose coordination body second.

The code is more what you'd call "guidelines"...

[froggie]

Given that it's an Interstate route, FHWA would be the approval authority anyway, not AASHTO.

[goldfishcrackers4]

Does anyone know what is going on in Region 2 with the Route 8 bridge over the Arterial. I noticed the dates have been pushed back to 2020-2022.

https://www.dot.ny.gov/portal/pls/portal/MEXIS_APP.WEPIDYNPAGEMULTI.show?p_arg_names=p_pin&p_arg_values=205675

When this bridge is redone, the entire interchange should be altered.  It is dangerous as it is right now.  At one point, I heard discussion of a directional interchange here, but that does not seem practical, especially considering that the Arterial expressway ends shortly after this interchange. They also have the two railroad crossings with lights...

Agreed with above that the situation on the new Arterial with the light at Noyes St. will create a dangerous situation.

[Buffaboy]

Does anyone know what is going on in Region 2 with the Route 8 bridge over the Arterial. I noticed the dates have been pushed back to 2020-2022.

https://www.dot.ny.gov/portal/pls/portal/MEXIS_APP.WEPIDYNPAGEMULTI.show?p_arg_names=p_pin&p_arg_values=205675

When this bridge is redone, the entire interchange should be altered.  It is dangerous as it is right now.  At one point, I heard discussion of a directional interchange here, but that does not seem practical, especially considering that the Arterial expressway ends shortly after this interchange. They also have the two railroad crossings with lights...

Agreed with above that the situation on the new Arterial with the light at Noyes St. will create a dangerous situation.

I know it's on the long term MPO planning agenda, so don't expect anything anytime soon. But I think they should turn it into a condensed stack, especially if they're thinking about extending NY-840 north into Rome.

If you're merging on via the little access ramps in the vicinity, it can be dangerous indeed. Those probably need to be removed.

The grade crossing isn't really a hazard per se, but for a highway (and this is on the NY-365 as well) it should be an overpass.

[The Ghostbuster]

Back to Syracuse, have they made any final decisions on what will happen to Interstate 81 in the city? And if not, does anyone know when they will make such decisions?

[Buffaboy]

Uncovered on reddit, 1970

[AsphaltPlanet]

That's a great find.  Oh how times have changed.

[AsphaltPlanet]

Alright, excuse the poor lighting and wiper blades. It was raining when the pictures were taken:

EB 1/2 mile advance


..snip

I know this is somewhat necro... but I really dig that sound barrier along the side of the interstate.  That looks great.

[sbeaver44]

Now WB:

Interesting that they changed the control city for 17 West to Corning, I believe it had been Elmira or Elmira/Owego.  I wonder if that is because of I-99 going to (basically) Corning, or if the state feels Corning is a more important place as a tourist destination than Elmira, being that Elmira is larger.

[Duke87]

Interesting that they changed the control city for 17 West to Corning, I believe it had been Elmira or Elmira/Owego.  I wonder if that is because of I-99 going to (basically) Corning, or if the state feels Corning is a more important place as a tourist destination than Elmira, being that Elmira is larger.

Corning has replaced Elmira as the westbound control city from the Bighamton area on most if not all new signs put up in the past few years. The reason, most likely, is because of I-99.

[Mr. Matté]

I find it more odd that they spent all the trouble of making the signs with just I-86 but sticking an NJDOT NY 17 shield over them until the time came (as seen here: http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/i-81/s.html ) but now they're just replacing all the signs showing both 86 and 17.

[cl94]

I find it more odd that they spent all the trouble of making the signs with just I-86 but sticking an NJDOT NY 17 shield over them until the time came (as seen here: http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/i-81/s.html ) but now they're just replacing all the signs showing both 86 and 17.

While signage for I-86 doesn't start until US 220, the portion through Tioga County is basically awaiting approval and will get designated as soon as an application is submitted. Every reassurance shield in the area is placed on top of an I-86 shield and distance banners are blue. Actually, this is true through most of Region 9 except in Hale Eddy. I can confirm from being through there last week that WB signage starts at or just east of US 220 in Pennsylvania.

[Bumppoman]

I find it more odd that they spent all the trouble of making the signs with just I-86 but sticking an NJDOT NY 17 shield over them until the time came (as seen here: http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/i-81/s.html ) but now they're just replacing all the signs showing both 86 and 17.

While signage for I-86 doesn't start until US 220, the portion through Tioga County is basically awaiting approval and will get designated as soon as an application is submitted. Every reassurance shield in the area is placed on top of an I-86 shield and distance banners are blue. Actually, this is true through most of Region 9 except in Hale Eddy. I can confirm from being through there last week that WB signage starts at or just east of US 220 in Pennsylvania.

Westbound signage right now starts at exit 62 for NY-282 in Nichols.

[machias]

Now WB:

Interesting that they changed the control city for 17 West to Corning, I believe it had been Elmira or Elmira/Owego.  I wonder if that is because of I-99 going to (basically) Corning, or if the state feels Corning is a more important place as a tourist destination than Elmira, being that Elmira is larger.

I'm curious why the left lane needs an "EXIT ONLY" but the right lane doesn't. It's not like you can exit to the left from the right lane (at least not safely).

(Edit: fixed the misaligned quote tags)