New York

[kalvado]

It's new plan day at NYSDOT and Region 1 released a couple no-nos in the form of NY 4 shields]. Pages 27 and 28. I already sent R1 an email.

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuugh.

Yeah...they politely told me to F off. There's a reason why I have no interest in working for the state.

I may feel like an idiot.. but can you explain the problem?

[cl94]

It's new plan day at NYSDOT and Region 1 released a couple no-nos in the form of NY 4 shields]. Pages 27 and 28. I already sent R1 an email.

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuugh.

Yeah...they politely told me to F off. There's a reason why I have no interest in working for the state.

I may feel like an idiot.. but can you explain the problem?

It's US 4, not NY 4. Granted, Region 1 has been making this mistake since before retroreflective signs were a thing.

[Dougtone]

Seasons' greetings! I wrote up an entry on the Sure, Why Not blog about the real life bridge in Seneca Falls, New York that was the inspiration for the bridge scenes in the movie It's a Wonderful Life.
http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2016/12/its-wonderful-bridge.html

[machias]

It's new plan day at NYSDOT and Region 1 released a couple no-nos in the form of NY 4 shields]. Pages 27 and 28. I already sent R1 an email.

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuugh.

Yeah...they politely told me to F off. There's a reason why I have no interest in working for the state.

I've never talked to R1 before, were they that cranky about you pointing out the signing errors on the plans?

I drove around the I-81/I-481/NY 481 interchange last weekend and noticed that all the signs that had "NY 11" on the plans were indeed installed as US 11 routes. That's a nice thing.

[seicer]

I've been going back and forth to New York in preparation for a move there next month. One of the routes I take is I-86 in the southern tier/Finger Lakes. Some questions:

1. Will the original service signs be replaced? The letters are not legible at night, and most of the service logos are not either.
2. Does rehabilitation of I-86 constitute the remainder of the circa 1989 segment that's in god-awful condition? It's interesting to compare the construction differences - tinning, joint spacing and barrier height, with the remainder of the Corning bypass that was built about ten years later.
3. Is there a map or guide of the formerly proposed Ithaca-region freeways?

[Dougtone]

I've been going back and forth to New York in preparation for a move there next month. One of the routes I take is I-86 in the southern tier/Finger Lakes. Some questions:

1. Will the original service signs be replaced? The letters are not legible at night, and most of the service logos are not either.
2. Does rehabilitation of I-86 constitute the remainder of the circa 1989 segment that's in god-awful condition? It's interesting to compare the construction differences - tinning, joint spacing and barrier height, with the remainder of the Corning bypass that was built about ten years later.
3. Is there a map or guide of the formerly proposed Ithaca-region freeways?

Welcome to New York, well, an early welcome. I'll defer the I-86 related questions to others.

Regarding Ithaca, I've come across an article in the New York Times regarding the defeat in 1989 of a proposed four lane highway replacing NY 96 for three miles between downtown Ithaca and what was Tompkins Community Hospital (now Cayuga Medical Center). Ithaca is known for its traffic issues around the infamous Octopus, where a number of roads come together in town causing a choke point, but had even had issues in the same area of town 40+ years ago.
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/07/23/nyregion/opponents-kill-ithaca-highway-after-long-fight.html
There's also the environmental impact statement regarding this proposal: https://books.google.com/books?id=Dbw1AQAAMAAJ

During the 1960s and 1970s, there was a proposal to build part of the Appalachian Thruway along what is now NY 13 between Elmira and Cortland. Most of the Appalachian Thruway south of Corning is now part of I-99, but New York was trying to get the Elmira-Ithaca-Cortland corridor developed. Here's the environmental impact study, which includes some maps.
https://books.google.com/books?id=obo1AQAAMAAJ

[cl94]

Exit numbers have been uncovered along the Taconic. Really strange going from no numbers to Exit 20 all of a sudden heading south.

[empirestate]

Exit numbers have been uncovered along the Taconic. Really strange going from no numbers to Exit 20 all of a sudden heading south.

Perhaps I missed this in the discussion, but why were the numbers covered even though the signs were up? What circumstance existed until just now that it was deemed inadvisable for the public to know the exit numbers?

[Duke87]

Perhaps I missed this in the discussion, but why were the numbers covered even though the signs were up? What circumstance existed until just now that it was deemed inadvisable for the public to know the exit numbers?

The signs were not put up all at once. It seems like they waited until all the signs were up to unbag the exit numbers so that you wouldn't have interchanges with an exit number on some signs but not others.

[cl94]

Perhaps I missed this in the discussion, but why were the numbers covered even though the signs were up? What circumstance existed until just now that it was deemed inadvisable for the public to know the exit numbers?

The signs were not put up all at once. It seems like they waited until all the signs were up to unbag the exit numbers so that you wouldn't have interchanges with an exit number on some signs but not others.

Except all the signs aren't up. That's the thing. There are still a few tabs missing here and there.

[SignBridge]

I'm surprised DOT would even be concerned about that as an issue.

[empirestate]

Perhaps I missed this in the discussion, but why were the numbers covered even though the signs were up? What circumstance existed until just now that it was deemed inadvisable for the public to know the exit numbers?

The signs were not put up all at once. It seems like they waited until all the signs were up to unbag the exit numbers so that you wouldn't have interchanges with an exit number on some signs but not others.

Except all the signs aren't up. That's the thing. There are still a few tabs missing here and there.

Yeah, I mean...they put at least a concerted effort into patching over the numerals–you knew it was now a numbered exit, you just didn't know which number it was. I guess I'm not seeing how not knowing what some of the numbers are means you shouldn't know what any of them are. Why is that detrimental enough that you should make a point of obscuring them?

(I'm not saying anyone here knows this answer; it's just what I'm wondering.)

[machias]

Perhaps I missed this in the discussion, but why were the numbers covered even though the signs were up? What circumstance existed until just now that it was deemed inadvisable for the public to know the exit numbers?

The signs were not put up all at once. It seems like they waited until all the signs were up to unbag the exit numbers so that you wouldn't have interchanges with an exit number on some signs but not others.

Except all the signs aren't up. That's the thing. There are still a few tabs missing here and there.

Yeah, I mean...they put at least a concerted effort into patching over the numerals–you knew it was now a numbered exit, you just didn't know which number it was. I guess I'm not seeing how not knowing what some of the numbers are means you shouldn't know what any of them are. Why is that detrimental enough that you should make a point of obscuring them?

(I'm not saying anyone here knows this answer; it's just what I'm wondering.)

Perhaps they thought there might be some motorist freak out about the numbering scheme?

[D-Dey65]

Re: RTOR; here in Nassau County the advertised County policy is that you should count 3-5 seconds before making your right-on-red, to avoid a ticket. So far it has worked for me.

I wait at least 5 second... actually a little longer. People get pissed off about it, but it's their fault if they want me to get hit by an oncoming car or truck.

[kalvado]

Re: RTOR; here in Nassau County the advertised County policy is that you should count 3-5 seconds before making your right-on-red, to avoid a ticket. So far it has worked for me.

I wait at least 5 second... actually a little longer. People get pissed off about it, but it's their fault if they want me to get hit by an oncoming car or truck.

5 seconds is absolutely meaningless number. I would say this is as close to prohibiting turn on red as it can get without actually prohibiting it.

[cl94]

Re: RTOR; here in Nassau County the advertised County policy is that you should count 3-5 seconds before making your right-on-red, to avoid a ticket. So far it has worked for me.

I wait at least 5 second... actually a little longer. People get pissed off about it, but it's their fault if they want me to get hit by an oncoming car or truck.

5 seconds is absolutely meaningless number. I would say this is as close to prohibiting turn on red as it can get without actually prohibiting it.

It's not meaningless. If the intersection has a camera, this allows you to be certain you won't get ticketed. Much less and you might only think you stopped. Psychological thing here.

[Alps]

I refuse to move past the stop line at a red light camera. I don't care what people behind me want to do.

[cl94]

I refuse to move past the stop line at a red light camera. I don't care what people behind me want to do.

Of course, that assumes there is a stop line. There are a bunch of camera intersections on NY 22 in Mount Vernon without stop lines.

[SignBridge]

I agree with cl94's post and I disagree with kalvado, who thinks this effectively bans RTOR. As a resident of Nassau County who makes lots of RTOR's, many at camera equipped intersections, I think the 3-5 second wait is acceptable. The camera will take your picture, (because you crossed the stop-line while the light was red) but the person reviewing it can definitely see that you did stop for sure before making your turn. Works for me.

[kalvado]

I agree with cl94's post and I disagree with kalvado, who thinks this effectively bans RTOR. As a resident of Nassau County who makes lots of RTOR's, many at camera equipped intersections, I think the 3-5 second wait is acceptable. The camera will take your picture, (because you crossed the stop-line while the light was red) but the person reviewing it can definitely see that you did stop for sure before making your turn. Works for me.

I think you nailed it. You change the way you drive not because law dictates something, not because of safety - but because of camera algorithms. Which is rather funny thing to defend.

[Duke87]

The camera will take your picture, (because you crossed the stop-line while the light was red) but the person reviewing it can definitely see that you did stop for sure before making your turn.

If it triggers the camera, I'm not doing it. I don't trust the revenue monkey reviewing these things to not rubber stamp them and say "eh, take it to court if you think it's not legit".

[vdeane]

Same here.  That's why I don't like the cameras.  I don't think I should have to adapt my behavior to the worst case scenario of how a camera may have been programmed.  That's one of the main reasons I'm against the cameras.

[SignBridge]

Well (chuckle!) Duke doesn't have to worry, 'cause in NYC RTOR is illegal except where specifically permitted so it's a non-issue. But for the rest of us vdeane, the other alternative would be to go back to NYC's policy everywhere, like pre-1979. I would actually support that idea, since so many drivers abuse RTOR by not stopping and yielding and causing accidents. There seems to be a public misconception that RTOR is legal, period, without having to stop and yield as the law requires.

I still favor the cameras as long as the program is fairly and properly run which at least Nassau County's does seem to be. That means not shortening any yellow's and all yellows timed according to engineering criteria, not just to cause more violations. I have watched many red-light runners properly get "zapped" and rightly so.

[Rothman]

I do not support going back to having RTOR be illegal everywhere in NY.  It would be absolutely painful to sit at some of the traffic lights upstate with no legitimate reason to keep me from turning right.

[empirestate]

Maybe they should adopt something like NYC subway conductors have to do: pointing at a certain sign when the train stops, to ensure that they open the doors in the right spot.