New York

[Michael]

While playing GeoGuessr yesterday afternoon, I came across this yellow on brown reference marker in the Adirondack Park.  Is this normal for the Adirondack and Catskill parks or are they usually the normal white on green?

EDIT:  There's also some sort of marker on the guardrail just before the reference marker.  I checked old Street View imagery to make sure it wasn't just something on the guardrail, but it's there at every time on the timeline.  It looks like a USGS survey marker, but there's nothing listed in the National Geodetic Survey Data Explorer.  In that case, I'm guessing it's a right of way marker.  Any ideas?

[cl94]

While playing GeoGuessr yesterday afternoon, I came across this yellow on brown reference marker in the Adirondack Park.  Is this normal for the Adirondack and Catskill parks or are they usually the normal white on green?

EDIT:  There's also some sort of marker on the guardrail just before the reference marker.  I checked old Street View imagery to make sure it wasn't just something on the guardrail, but it's there at every time on the timeline.  It looks like a USGS survey marker, but there's nothing listed in the National Geodetic Survey Data Explorer.  In that case, I'm guessing it's a right of way marker.  Any ideas?

Yellow on brown is the new standard for Adirondack Park. Catskill Park is white on brown.

[Buffaboy]

While playing GeoGuessr yesterday afternoon, I came across this yellow on brown reference marker in the Adirondack Park.  Is this normal for the Adirondack and Catskill parks or are they usually the normal white on green?

EDIT:  There's also some sort of marker on the guardrail just before the reference marker.  I checked old Street View imagery to make sure it wasn't just something on the guardrail, but it's there at every time on the timeline.  It looks like a USGS survey marker, but there's nothing listed in the National Geodetic Survey Data Explorer.  In that case, I'm guessing it's a right of way marker.  Any ideas?

If you notice, it's also missing the support post underneath, leaving a gap in the pattern. I think it might have to do with that or the reference marker.

[GenExpwy]

While playing GeoGuessr yesterday afternoon, I came across this yellow on brown reference marker in the Adirondack Park.  Is this normal for the Adirondack and Catskill parks or are they usually the normal white on green?

EDIT:  There's also some sort of marker on the guardrail just before the reference marker.  I checked old Street View imagery to make sure it wasn't just something on the guardrail, but it's there at every time on the timeline.  It looks like a USGS survey marker, but there's nothing listed in the National Geodetic Survey Data Explorer.  In that case, I'm guessing it's a right of way marker.  Any ideas?

If you notice, it's also missing the support post underneath, leaving a gap in the pattern. I think it might have to do with that or the reference marker.

You can see the top of the post next to the mystery marker, and if you move back one click you can see the whole post. This appears to be a photo seam-stitching artifact, and a particularly deceptive one.

[D-Dey65]

This is on "Trains Are Fun.com," but there were provisions on the Wantagh State Parkway to have a potential grade crossing just in case the LIRR decided to restore service on the Central Branch between Eisenhower Park and Bethpage Junction. 

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/centralbranch/lirrcentralbranch.htm

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/centralbranch/22-Cent-Br-Remains-ROW-at-Grade-Wantagh%20Pky-Levittown-1955%20(Schneider-Keller).jpg

This is over by the Salisbury Park Drive bridge. I'm really glad they never built that.

[SignBridge]

Interesting. I've driven/ridden that road a thousand times, and even back before it was paved over about 40 years ago, I never even noticed that as a kid. Really though, I don't think a grade crossing would ever have been built on a state parkway. They would have had to build an overpass.

[Duke87]

Really though, I don't think a grade crossing would ever have been built on a state parkway. They would have had to build an overpass.

Why not? Several NY parkways have grade level intersections with streets and even traffic lights. I totally believe they would have let there be a railroad crossing there.

...in the 1940s, at least. If LIRR had in fact reactivated that line I'm sure the grade crossing would have been eliminated by now. The question is how long it would have lasted.

[cl94]

Really though, I don't think a grade crossing would ever have been built on a state parkway. They would have had to build an overpass.

Why not? Several NY parkways have grade level intersections with streets and even traffic lights. I totally believe they would have let there be a railroad crossing there.

...in the 1940s, at least. If LIRR had in fact reactivated that line I'm sure the grade crossing would have been eliminated by now. The question is how long it would have lasted.

Please, there are plenty of Interstate-grade roads in this part of the country with grade crossings. Look at Utica and Vermont. Would that one have been grade separated at some point? Probably. But that doesn't mean it necessarily would have.

It is worth mentioning that I-87 had a temporary grade crossing just north of Albany between its opening and 1965.

[D-Dey65]

Interesting. I've driven/ridden that road a thousand times, and even back before it was paved over about 40 years ago, I never even noticed that as a kid. Really though, I don't think a grade crossing would ever have been built on a state parkway. They would have had to build an overpass.

Well, that picture was from 1955, but I agree that they would've been better off with a bridge. Duke87 is right though, they might've felt it was okay to have one at the time. I wouldn't.

[seicer]

This is on "Trains Are Fun.com," but there were provisions on the Wantagh State Parkway to have a potential grade crossing just in case the LIRR decided to restore service on the Central Branch between Eisenhower Park and Bethpage Junction. 

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/centralbranch/lirrcentralbranch.htm

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/centralbranch/22-Cent-Br-Remains-ROW-at-Grade-Wantagh%20Pky-Levittown-1955%20(Schneider-Keller).jpg

This is over by the Salisbury Park Drive bridge. I'm really glad they never built that.

Those provisions are still visible today!

[machias]

Really though, I don't think a grade crossing would ever have been built on a state parkway. They would have had to build an overpass.

Why not? Several NY parkways have grade level intersections with streets and even traffic lights. I totally believe they would have let there be a railroad crossing there.

...in the 1940s, at least. If LIRR had in fact reactivated that line I'm sure the grade crossing would have been eliminated by now. The question is how long it would have lasted.

Please, there are plenty of Interstate-grade roads in this part of the country with grade crossings. Look at Utica and Vermont. Would that one have been grade separated at some point? Probably. But that doesn't mean it necessarily would have.

It is worth mentioning that I-87 had a temporary grade crossing just north of Albany between its opening and 1965.

The NY 840 expressway was built in 2005 with a grade crossing.

[Buffaboy]

Really though, I don't think a grade crossing would ever have been built on a state parkway. They would have had to build an overpass.

Why not? Several NY parkways have grade level intersections with streets and even traffic lights. I totally believe they would have let there be a railroad crossing there.

...in the 1940s, at least. If LIRR had in fact reactivated that line I'm sure the grade crossing would have been eliminated by now. The question is how long it would have lasted.

Please, there are plenty of Interstate-grade roads in this part of the country with grade crossings. Look at Utica and Vermont. Would that one have been grade separated at some point? Probably. But that doesn't mean it necessarily would have.

It is worth mentioning that I-87 had a temporary grade crossing just north of Albany between its opening and 1965.

The NY 840 expressway was built in 2005 with a grade crossing.

Don't forget about the NY-49/365 crossing.

[cl94]

Really though, I don't think a grade crossing would ever have been built on a state parkway. They would have had to build an overpass.

Why not? Several NY parkways have grade level intersections with streets and even traffic lights. I totally believe they would have let there be a railroad crossing there.

...in the 1940s, at least. If LIRR had in fact reactivated that line I'm sure the grade crossing would have been eliminated by now. The question is how long it would have lasted.

Please, there are plenty of Interstate-grade roads in this part of the country with grade crossings. Look at Utica and Vermont. Would that one have been grade separated at some point? Probably. But that doesn't mean it necessarily would have.

It is worth mentioning that I-87 had a temporary grade crossing just north of Albany between its opening and 1965.

The NY 840 expressway was built in 2005 with a grade crossing.

Don't forget about the NY-49/365 crossing.

I lumped both of those in with NY 5/12 as the Utica ones. Either way, the Wantagh wouldn't have been the only roadway like that in the state with a grade crossing.

[vdeane]

It is worth mentioning that I-87 had a temporary grade crossing just north of Albany between its opening and 1965.

Yeah, in hindsight, that was probably a bad idea.  Now the Mohawk-Hudson Hike-Bike Trail needs to jog onto local streets to cross I-87 since the off-road trail is just the old rail ROW.

[cl94]

It is worth mentioning that I-87 had a temporary grade crossing just north of Albany between its opening and 1965.

Yeah, in hindsight, that was probably a bad idea.  Now the Mohawk-Hudson Hike-Bike Trail needs to jog onto local streets to cross I-87 since the off-road trail is just the old rail ROW.

NYSDPW wanted New York Central to pay for the crossing. Line didn't have enough traffic to justify one, so they abandoned it once Schnectady got adequate highway infrastructure.

[SignBridge]

Okay, re: the Wantagh Parkway again. It was built in 1938 and Long island was rural back then, so just maybe there was so little traffic that a grade crossing would have been considered realistic. Next time I drive that road, I will check if the potential crossing is still visible but I don't know how it could be. The Parkway was repaved with asphalt over the original concrete in about 1977. And it badly needs repaving again now, as that 40 year-old asphalt is falling apart.

[cl94]

Okay, re: the Wantagh Parkway again. It was built in 1938 and Long island was rural back then, so just maybe there was so little traffic that a grade crossing would have been considered realistic. Next time I drive that road, I will check if the potential crossing is still visible but I don't know how it could be. The Parkway was repaved with asphalt over the original concrete in about 1977. And it badly needs repaving again now, as that 40 year-old asphalt is falling apart.

The ROW is still quite clear (at least it was last summer and from November GSV).

[Duke87]

Please, there are plenty of Interstate-grade roads in this part of the country with grade crossings. Look at Utica and Vermont. Would that one have been grade separated at some point? Probably. But that doesn't mean it necessarily would have.

I say unhesitatingly that it would have for one simple reason: all the surviving examples people have mentioned here are tracks with infrequent usage. Current service levels on the LIRR Ronkonkoma branch are 72 trains per day (36 inbound, 36 outbound), if we assume half of them would be using the Central branch instead of the mainline if it were reactivated, that's 36 times each day that grade crossing would have had the gates coming down, including 4 times between 7-8 AM and 3 times between 5-6 PM. Very different story with that kind of train traffic.

[Buffaboy]

Bad news for AET. Upstate is last to get everything.

No plans for cashless tolling on Thruway in upstate, Cuomo administration says

ALBANY – There are no specific plans to bring a cashless toll system to the upstate portions of the Thruway even though it now operates at the Tappan Zee Bridge between Rockland and Westchester counties, a Cuomo administration official told lawmakers Wednesday.

“We’ve looked at it. We have no plans at the moment,’’ Bill Finch, the acting executive director of the Thruway Authority, testified during a joint legislative hearing looking into Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s budget plans for the state’s transportation programs.

In cashless tolling, tolls are either deducted from a driver's E-Z Pass or the license plate is photographed and you get a bill in the mail.

Cashless tolling is also being added at New York City bridge and tunnel crossings.

Finch said Thruway plazas in Western New York are areas “that would benefit from cashless tolling.’’ But he said the current plans are not to expand that toll collection system beyond downstate.

The “social costs are enormous” with cashless tolling, Finch said. They include less wait time at toll booths, reduced greenhouse gas emissions and fewer accidents.

Finch did not say why other areas of Thruway do not have plans to add the cashless tolling systems.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/02/15/no-plans-cashless-tolling-thruway-upstate/

I bet all of the CuomoSigns money could've been used for a partial conversion or study.

[cl94]

Very simple: E-ZPass usage rates. Usage rates in Western New York are well under 50%. Downstate, they're around 90% Because of that, there's no benefit to any changeover. They'd be mailing bills to the majority of users. Plus, any changes to the main ticket system must happen at once.

Until people in Western New York start getting E-ZPass, there's no reason to introduce cashless tolling.

[kalvado]

Plus, any changes to the main ticket system must happen at once.

I don't fully buy that. It is totally possible to go toward highway-speed tolls for ezpass first.  Something like south Thruway terminus - that works just fine. I would say Exit B1 at the end of free I-90, B3 toward MA and Thruway 87 -> Northway  are prime spots for that with significant traffic and reasonable room for construction.
I am not sure if that wold be simple enough in Buffalo, but may be a good way to boost EZpass by giving apparent advantage to users. 5% - or that is lower? - is not really good stimulus any more since toll cost is not communicated to the user until way later (if they bother to read the statement at all)

[RobbieL2415]

Very simple: E-ZPass usage rates. Usage rates in Western New York are well under 50%. Downstate, they're around 90% Because of that, there's no benefit to any changeover. They'd be mailing bills to the majority of users. Plus, any changes to the main ticket system must happen at once.

Until people in Western New York start getting E-ZPass, there's no reason to introduce cashless tolling.

But wouldn't having to staff toll booths and print paper tickets still cost more money in the long term?

Though, as I'm typing this, I do realize that automated toll booths that accept paper tickets do exists. The Mass Pike used to use them.

[kalvado]

Very simple: E-ZPass usage rates. Usage rates in Western New York are well under 50%. Downstate, they're around 90% Because of that, there's no benefit to any changeover. They'd be mailing bills to the majority of users. Plus, any changes to the main ticket system must happen at once.

Until people in Western New York start getting E-ZPass, there's no reason to introduce cashless tolling.

But wouldn't having to staff toll booths and print paper tickets still cost more money in the long term?

Though, as I'm typing this, I do realize that automated toll booths that accept paper tickets do exists. The Mass Pike used to use them.

I think this is more about the outcry when locals who make short dashes along toll road would face $0.30 toll + $2.50 administrative fee for what used to be a quarter at the booth... 

[vdeane]

If they're not going to go AET on the ticket system any time soon, IMO they should at least provide ORT lanes for the barriers.

[cl94]

Very simple: E-ZPass usage rates. Usage rates in Western New York are well under 50%. Downstate, they're around 90% Because of that, there's no benefit to any changeover. They'd be mailing bills to the majority of users. Plus, any changes to the main ticket system must happen at once.

Until people in Western New York start getting E-ZPass, there's no reason to introduce cashless tolling.

But wouldn't having to staff toll booths and print paper tickets still cost more money in the long term?

Though, as I'm typing this, I do realize that automated toll booths that accept paper tickets do exists. The Mass Pike used to use them.

I think this is more about the outcry when locals who make short dashes along toll road would face $0.30 toll + $2.50 administrative fee for what used to be a quarter at the booth...

That is part of it. Western New York has horribly low E-ZPass rates and most non-truck trips are relatively short.

As to why they're not doing high-speed elsewhere, no place to put it in Albany without major additions due to the short merge area and B3 doesn't get enough traffic.

ORT for Buffalo was shot down for environmental reasons.