New York

[crispy93]

...I can't see what's wrong with it being posted at 55. Yeah, it would probably be stupid to do 55....

If it's dangerous and stupid to do the speed limit, the limit may be too high. Believe me, I'm very frustrated by speed limits in New York but this is a rare instance where I am fine with lowering it. It's not going to affect anything and the new limit is very reasonable.

[empirestate]

...I can't see what's wrong with it being posted at 55. Yeah, it would probably be stupid to do 55....

If it's dangerous and stupid to do the speed limit, the limit may be too high. Believe me, I'm very frustrated by speed limits in New York but this is a rare instance where I am fine with lowering it. It's not going to affect anything and the new limit is very reasonable.

Yeah, the problem is that in this country, people tend to regard speed limits as minimum limits, rather than maximum ones. So if you post something at 55, you have to figure people are going to be thinking 60-65mph as a plan A.

Otherwise, if we were talking about some other countries I've driven in, where driving behavior is governed more by actual road conditions, I'd say ketchup has a point.

[machias]

...I can't see what's wrong with it being posted at 55. Yeah, it would probably be stupid to do 55....

If it's dangerous and stupid to do the speed limit, the limit may be too high. Believe me, I'm very frustrated by speed limits in New York but this is a rare instance where I am fine with lowering it. It's not going to affect anything and the new limit is very reasonable.

Yeah, the problem is that in this country, people tend to regard speed limits as minimum limits, rather than maximum ones. So if you post something at 55, you have to figure people are going to be thinking 60-65mph as a plan A.

Otherwise, if we were talking about some other countries I've driven in, where driving behavior is governed more by actual road conditions, I'd say ketchup has a point.

Part of the speed limit = minimum behavior is because municipalities have posted speed limits lower than they should be in an effort to control driver behavior instead of for safety considerations. It's related to the issue of using stop signs as a speed control device instead of a safety device. I've found that New York tends to be the most reasonable of the eastern states when it comes to posting speed limits, outside of the lower than necessary 65 MPH on freeways outside of the New York metro area.

[vdeane]

Yeah, outside of blanket 30 mph limits (regardless of conditions) in municipalities and the low freeway limits, NY does a good job with speed limits for the most part.  As for Storm King, I don't remember getting anywhere close to 55 in the portion that was posted for that when I drove it, so the new limit isn't like, say, NY 17 through Delaware County (where it's 55 because trucks would have to slow to that speed on a couple curves but otherwise would be fine to be posted 65-70), or MA where the speed limit on two lane roads changes every 200 feet because the state got mad the courts wouldn't let them issue tickets for exceeding advisory limits.

[D-Dey65]

Who here isn't familiar with the Manhasset Valley Viaduct? If you know about it, you also know that Nassau County Department of Public Works would probably laugh in your face if you request low clearance signs anywhere along that bridge.

But I wouldn't.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7926958,-73.7089532,3a,75y,344.01h,83.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIYIWRLZ27R0ldQLtpwVtFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

[Ketchup99]

...I can't see what's wrong with it being posted at 55. Yeah, it would probably be stupid to do 55....

If it's dangerous and stupid to do the speed limit, the limit may be too high. Believe me, I'm very frustrated by speed limits in New York but this is a rare instance where I am fine with lowering it. It's not going to affect anything and the new limit is very reasonable.

Yeah, the problem is that in this country, people tend to regard speed limits as minimum limits, rather than maximum ones. So if you post something at 55, you have to figure people are going to be thinking 60-65mph as a plan A.

Otherwise, if we were talking about some other countries I've driven in, where driving behavior is governed more by actual road conditions, I'd say ketchup has a point.

So what if it's an unposted default 55? On lots of country roads like this, in the absence of a speed limit sign, people will drive 35 when conditions and geometry demand it and 65 when they allow it. The existence of the sign setting a "benchmark speed" seems to in many cases cause problems. An unposted 55 wouldn't encourage people to go through there at 65, but it would give cops an enforcement mechanism if someone was driving like a madman.

[vdeane]

Keep in mind that roads don't get posted 55 in the state because "we want to let people drive their sports cars real fast", it's because setting a linear speed limit (as opposed to a speed zone - "state speed limit", "city speed limit", "village speed limit", etc. aren't just descriptive - they have legal meaning) requires a speed study and posting lots of signs, and so it's easier to leave a road at 55 if it isn't causing a problem (this is also why we have blanket 30 zones in municipalities - easier to say "city speed limit 30" and be done with it).  If there's now a linear 35 limit there, it means a speed study was done, which means there was some issue motivating doing the study in the first place (probably a higher than normal crash rate).

NY has been moving away from having fully unposted zones, as not everyone knows what "end XX limit" means.  Those are usually followed by "state speed limit 55".

[Ketchup99]

Keep in mind that roads don't get posted 55 in the state because "we want to let people drive their sports cars real fast", it's because setting a linear speed limit (as opposed to a speed zone - "state speed limit", "city speed limit", "village speed limit", etc. aren't just descriptive - they have legal meaning) requires a speed study and posting lots of signs, and so it's easier to leave a road at 55 if it isn't causing a problem (this is also why we have blanket 30 zones in municipalities - easier to say "city speed limit 30" and be done with it).  If there's now a linear 35 limit there, it means a speed study was done, which means there was some issue motivating doing the study in the first place (probably a higher than normal crash rate).

NY has been moving away from having fully unposted zones, as not everyone knows what "end XX limit" means.  Those are usually followed by "state speed limit 55".

Huh, so out of curiosity, if a state highway (posted at 55 on either side of town) goes through a village (with a village limit of 30), will the state highway be at 30 or 55 barring a study?

[Rothman]

If they complain enough, the limit drops through their town.

[Alps]

Keep in mind that roads don't get posted 55 in the state because "we want to let people drive their sports cars real fast", it's because setting a linear speed limit (as opposed to a speed zone - "state speed limit", "city speed limit", "village speed limit", etc. aren't just descriptive - they have legal meaning) requires a speed study and posting lots of signs, and so it's easier to leave a road at 55 if it isn't causing a problem (this is also why we have blanket 30 zones in municipalities - easier to say "city speed limit 30" and be done with it).  If there's now a linear 35 limit there, it means a speed study was done, which means there was some issue motivating doing the study in the first place (probably a higher than normal crash rate).

NY has been moving away from having fully unposted zones, as not everyone knows what "end XX limit" means.  Those are usually followed by "state speed limit 55".

Huh, so out of curiosity, if a state highway (posted at 55 on either side of town) goes through a village (with a village limit of 30), will the state highway be at 30 or 55 barring a study?

Typically they drop to 30 if the village limit is 30, unless the highway bypasses the downtown (in which case they may be doing a speed study).

[J N Winkler]

Keep in mind that roads don't get posted 55 in the state because "we want to let people drive their sports cars real fast", it's because setting a linear speed limit (as opposed to a speed zone - "state speed limit", "city speed limit", "village speed limit", etc. aren't just descriptive - they have legal meaning) requires a speed study and posting lots of signs, and so it's easier to leave a road at 55 if it isn't causing a problem (this is also why we have blanket 30 zones in municipalities - easier to say "city speed limit 30" and be done with it).  If there's now a linear 35 limit there, it means a speed study was done, which means there was some issue motivating doing the study in the first place (probably a higher than normal crash rate).

I do really notice it when "Speed Limit 55" is posted instead of "State Speed Limit 55" (NY 8/NY 30 south of Speculator comes to mind).

[vdeane]

Keep in mind that roads don't get posted 55 in the state because "we want to let people drive their sports cars real fast", it's because setting a linear speed limit (as opposed to a speed zone - "state speed limit", "city speed limit", "village speed limit", etc. aren't just descriptive - they have legal meaning) requires a speed study and posting lots of signs, and so it's easier to leave a road at 55 if it isn't causing a problem (this is also why we have blanket 30 zones in municipalities - easier to say "city speed limit 30" and be done with it).  If there's now a linear 35 limit there, it means a speed study was done, which means there was some issue motivating doing the study in the first place (probably a higher than normal crash rate).

NY has been moving away from having fully unposted zones, as not everyone knows what "end XX limit" means.  Those are usually followed by "state speed limit 55".

Huh, so out of curiosity, if a state highway (posted at 55 on either side of town) goes through a village (with a village limit of 30), will the state highway be at 30 or 55 barring a study?

30.  Think of the speed zones as nested polygons that apply wherever there isn't a linear speed limit.

[cl94]

The speed study thing is key: along state-maintained roads, any limit that isn't 55 or an area limit of some sort (city, village, town) is the result of a speed study. Village speed limits are not always 30 (I have seen 35, for example), while town limits are all over the place. Towns and counties? Sure, they'll set nanny limits for political reasons, with a few sticking out. If there is a rural limit under 55 on a state highway, you can bet your butt there was a speed study and a very good reason for the low limit.

[roadwaywiz95]

For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system of New York's Southern Tier region in and around Binghamton, NY. Coverage will begin on Saturday (12/12) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

[empirestate]

So what if it's an unposted default 55? On lots of country roads like this, in the absence of a speed limit sign, people will drive 35 when conditions and geometry demand it and 65 when they allow it.

In that case, yeah, I've noticed that people seem to go at whatever speed they last saw posted, or that they feel comfortable with. I don't think the motoring public universally understands it to mean the underlying default speed now applies. (They probably figure someone forgot to put up signs for what the new limit is.)

[crispy93]

So what if it's an unposted default 55? On lots of country roads like this, in the absence of a speed limit sign, people will drive 35 when conditions and geometry demand it and 65 when they allow it.

In that case, yeah, I've noticed that people seem to go at whatever speed they last saw posted, or that they feel comfortable with. I don't think the motoring public universally understands it to mean the underlying default speed now applies. (They probably figure someone forgot to put up signs for what the new limit is.)

In the Hudson Valley, there were several areas off the top of my head where speed limit signs were missing. Thankfully a lot of them were replaced in the last year or two. NY 9D by Breakneck has a regular ol' Speed Limit 55 sign, which always gets my attention in NY lol.

[crispy93]

Keep in mind that roads don't get posted 55 in the state because "we want to let people drive their sports cars real fast", it's because setting a linear speed limit (as opposed to a speed zone - "state speed limit", "city speed limit", "village speed limit", etc. aren't just descriptive - they have legal meaning) requires a speed study and posting lots of signs, and so it's easier to leave a road at 55 if it isn't causing a problem (this is also why we have blanket 30 zones in municipalities - easier to say "city speed limit 30" and be done with it).  If there's now a linear 35 limit there, it means a speed study was done, which means there was some issue motivating doing the study in the first place (probably a higher than normal crash rate).

NY has been moving away from having fully unposted zones, as not everyone knows what "end XX limit" means.  Those are usually followed by "state speed limit 55".

The municipal 30 mph zones drive me crazy. I don't know why small municipalities get to set speed limits because they don't know what they're talking about and the "area speed limit 30" thing is so entrenched that any local road, of any design and operation, must be 30. Whenever I've complained about a speed limit on a town road, you'd think I was asking them to legalize drag racing. 40? What is this, the autobahn? If you're on any road that clips a village, expect 30 mph even if it's very unwarranted.

NYSDOT also doesn't review their own limits regularly, so it only changes if the local board asks for it (and the only time this happens is when they want it lowered). So this can prevent new speed traps but also entrenches old ones (for example, they widened US 9 near me 10 years ago and replaced a crosswalk with an underpass. Still posted at 30 and the decision to send it to the DOT comes down to one town councilman whose district the road runs through).

[Michael]

Keep in mind that roads don't get posted 55 in the state because "we want to let people drive their sports cars real fast", it's because setting a linear speed limit (as opposed to a speed zone - "state speed limit", "city speed limit", "village speed limit", etc. aren't just descriptive - they have legal meaning) requires a speed study and posting lots of signs, and so it's easier to leave a road at 55 if it isn't causing a problem (this is also why we have blanket 30 zones in municipalities - easier to say "city speed limit 30" and be done with it).  If there's now a linear 35 limit there, it means a speed study was done, which means there was some issue motivating doing the study in the first place (probably a higher than normal crash rate).

I do really notice it when "Speed Limit 55" is posted instead of "State Speed Limit 55" (NY 8/NY 30 south of Speculator comes to mind).

I'm so used to seeing "STATE SPEED LIMIT 55" signs that it looks weird to me when I see other states' "SPEED LIMIT 55" signs.  I've only seen one "SPEED LIMIT 55" sign in NY, and that was this one, installed as part of the Teall/Beech bridge replacement in Syracuse.

Keep in mind that roads don't get posted 55 in the state because "we want to let people drive their sports cars real fast", it's because setting a linear speed limit (as opposed to a speed zone - "state speed limit", "city speed limit", "village speed limit", etc. aren't just descriptive - they have legal meaning) requires a speed study and posting lots of signs, and so it's easier to leave a road at 55 if it isn't causing a problem (this is also why we have blanket 30 zones in municipalities - easier to say "city speed limit 30" and be done with it).  If there's now a linear 35 limit there, it means a speed study was done, which means there was some issue motivating doing the study in the first place (probably a higher than normal crash rate).

NY has been moving away from having fully unposted zones, as not everyone knows what "end XX limit" means.  Those are usually followed by "state speed limit 55".

The municipal 30 mph zones drive me crazy. I don't know why small municipalities get to set speed limits because they don't know what they're talking about and the "area speed limit 30" thing is so entrenched that any local road, of any design and operation, must be 30. Whenever I've complained about a speed limit on a town road, you'd think I was asking them to legalize drag racing. 40? What is this, the autobahn? If you're on any road that clips a village, expect 30 mph even if it's very unwarranted.

NYSDOT also doesn't review their own limits regularly, so it only changes if the local board asks for it (and the only time this happens is when they want it lowered). So this can prevent new speed traps but also entrenches old ones (for example, they widened US 9 near me 10 years ago and replaced a crosswalk with an underpass. Still posted at 30 and the decision to send it to the DOT comes down to one town councilman whose district the road runs through).

Even as a little kid, I always thought the fact that NY 31 is 35 MPH in Weedsport was weird.  My thought process at the time was "speed limits in cities and villages are supposed to be 30 MPH".  I looked at all the entrances to the village, and only Hamilton St. and East Brutus St. have "VILLAGE SPEED LIMIT 30" signs.  It's interesting to note that neither of them are on NY 34, the only other state route to enter Weedsport.  The sign on East Brutus St. might be a carbon-copy of the sign that was there when it was NY 31B.

[baugh17]

I do really notice it when "Speed Limit 55" is posted instead of "State Speed Limit 55" (NY 8/NY 30 south of Speculator comes to mind).

Must be a Region 2 thing.  I've lost track of how many "Speed Limit 55" signs are posted around the Utica area.

[Dougtone]

The Times Herald-Record of Middletown, NY has posted an article on 12/10/2020 with some historic postcard images of the Storm King Highway (modern NY 218).

https://www.recordonline.com/story/news/2020/12/10/now-then-history-storm-king-highway/3807444001/

[74/171FAN]

I think someone forgot to tell PennDOT (blame myself I guess) that US 220 does not enter New York any more. (https://www.penndot.gov/regionaloffices/district-3/pages/details.aspx?newsid=3280)

[roadwaywiz95]

Our next installment in the "Virtual Tour" series is scheduled to take place on Saturday (12/19) at 6 PM ET. Come join me and members of the AARoads community as we profile NY Route 17/Interstate 86 across the Catskill region of New York State and discuss the history and features of this highway (also known as the "Quickway") all while enjoying a real-time video trip along the length of the highway between Harriman and Binghamton.

A link to the event location can be found below and we look forward to seeing you in attendance:

[roadwaywiz95]

For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the bridges that span the Hudson River, with the primary focus being on the Capital District and Hudson Valley regions of New York State. There are many interesting & historic structures to discuss and we will be dissecting their history and importance as only the folks of the AARoads Forum can! Coverage will begin on Sunday (12/20) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

[astralentity]

Going to Port Jervis yesterday, I noticed there's no town line signs in Orange County on I-84.  Vestiges of Thruway control?

[vdeane]

Going to Port Jervis yesterday, I noticed there's no town line signs in Orange County on I-84.  Vestiges of Thruway control?

That's what I would guess.  No reference markers, either.