New York

[roadman65]

I kind of figured as much as cars are no longer allowed on the Staten Island Ferry since 9/11, but I think we all know that won't stop an enemy attack by any means.

Yes, from where the dam is situated it is a perfect way to wipe out White Plains as blowing up that particular structure would wash away the Bronx River Valley below it.  White Plains is along the lower River valley and so would other Westchester communities as well.   

However, considering that one hell bent on destruction will go for it any way possible, why not allow us to enjoy the beauty of the dam from above as well.

[roadman65]

Hey I noticed something when virtually touring I-81. I see the Cartland Next 2 Exits sign now is revised to include both exits for Ithaca as well.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZpDmXbUBtyX189kv8

Then also the Exit 12 guides now include Ithaca as well asHomer and Cortland.

https://goo.gl/maps/Pnid81TVgVA2itrYA

I always thought NYSDOT should include Ithaca along with Cortland on the Next 2 exits signs.  Now I see someone is finally thinking clearly.

[empirestate]

Is there a specific reason why the rim of the Kenisco Dam in White Plains is not open to motor vehicles?

I believe it has to do with 9/11 security concerns.

In other words, no. :-)

[cl94]

Yes, from where the dam is situated it is a perfect way to wipe out White Plains as blowing up that particular structure would wash away the Bronx River Valley below it.  White Plains is along the lower River valley and so would other Westchester communities as well.   

However, considering that one hell bent on destruction will go for it any way possible, why not allow us to enjoy the beauty of the dam from above as well.

Kensico is probably the single most important dam in the NYC water supply system. That's where all the water from the other aqueducts is dumped before being sent down to the City. And yes, a dam failure would wipe out anything below it along the Bronx River.

[Rothman]

Yes, from where the dam is situated it is a perfect way to wipe out White Plains as blowing up that particular structure would wash away the Bronx River Valley below it.  White Plains is along the lower River valley and so would other Westchester communities as well.   

However, considering that one hell bent on destruction will go for it any way possible, why not allow us to enjoy the beauty of the dam from above as well.

Kensico is probably the single most important dam in the NYC water supply system. That's where all the water from the other aqueducts is dumped before being sent down to the City. And yes, a dam failure would wipe out anything below it along the Bronx River.

Of course, causing a dam failure would be ridiculously difficult.  This security theater is just that -- lip service to a public that has been manipulated into thinking a threat is much more likely than it is...by those that profit from such.

[RobbieL2415]

The full list of prohibited vehicles is:

(a) bicycles;
(b) buses;
(c) commercial;
(d) golf carts;
(e) hearses, except those operated by or for a licensed funeral director or undertaker while traveling to or from a funeral, interment, cremation, place of death or other destination for the acceptance and shipment of the body or remains of a deceased person;
(f) house coaches;
(g) motor-driven cycles;
(h) school buses;
(i) semitrailers;
(j) snowmobiles;
(k) tractors;
(l) trailers;
(m) trucks.

Motorcycles is surprising to me. I've never seen that enforced.

IIRC "motor-driven" cycles refers to traditional bicycles that have had a motor attached to them, not motorcycles as colloquially known.
Example: CT's legal definition of a motor-driven cycle: "Motor-driven cycle"  means any of the following vehicles that have a seat height of not less than twenty-six inches and a motor having a capacity of less than fifty cubic centimeters piston displacement: (A) A motorcycle, other than an autocycle; (B) a motor scooter; or (C) a bicycle with attached motor, except an electric bicycle;
Motorcycles have engines with a displacement of 50cc or greater.

[dzheng35]

Just wondering about NY. If NY was allowed to post speed limits higher than 65, do you think any roads could be signed higher than 65? I think the Thruway could easily be 70 for the most part. What other roads do you think could be signed higher? If so, what do you think it could be signed at?

[Alps]

Just wondering about NY. If NY was allowed to post speed limits higher than 65, do you think any roads could be signed higher than 65? I think the Thruway could easily be 70 for the most part. What other roads do you think could be signed higher? If so, what do you think it could be signed at?

I-87 Northway has come up because of how remote it is. I-81 between cities would be another, and I've done I-88 at enough speed to recommend it for anything you'd like.

[dzheng35]

What about NY-17 outside of hale eddy? those could easily be higher than 55 right? What seems to be the absolute limit for that road (the speeds police will tolerate before ticketing you) as well as the 85th percentile speed since no one drives 55 in those areas outside of hale eddy anyways.

[empirestate]

Just wondering about NY. If NY was allowed to post speed limits higher than 65, do you think any roads could be signed higher than 65? I think the Thruway could easily be 70 for the most part. What other roads do you think could be signed higher? If so, what do you think it could be signed at?

I-87 Northway has come up because of how remote it is. I-81 between cities would be another, and I've done I-88 at enough speed to recommend it for anything you'd like.

Sure, NY 531 could easily be 70, and the western stretches of I-490. I-390 may be too curvy or hilly, but it's certainly remote enough.

[cockroachking]

Just wondering about NY. If NY was allowed to post speed limits higher than 65, do you think any roads could be signed higher than 65? I think the Thruway could easily be 70 for the most part. What other roads do you think could be signed higher? If so, what do you think it could be signed at?

I made a post a little while ago with some examples if NYSDOT is given free reign up to 75. If I was personally in charge, many of those would go up 5-10mph higher than I listed them at, but alas my opinion means 0 to the DOT.

What about NY-17 outside of hale eddy? those could easily be higher than 55 right? What seems to be the absolute limit for that road (the speeds police will tolerate before ticketing you) as well as the 85th percentile speed since no one drives 55 in those areas outside of hale eddy anyways.

85th percentile speeds along this section tend to be in the low to mid 70s, just like the 65mph sections around them, which is pretty typical in NY; operating speeds rarely change between 55 and 65 zones if the road characteristics are similar enough.

I've done I-88 at enough speed to recommend it for anything you'd like.

I-84 from Fishkill to Brewster, the 6 lane Taconic, and Thruway from Exit 15A-16 are the same for me......well, 85 anyway 

[dzheng35]

Just wondering about NY. If NY was allowed to post speed limits higher than 65, do you think any roads could be signed higher than 65? I think the Thruway could easily be 70 for the most part. What other roads do you think could be signed higher? If so, what do you think it could be signed at?

I made a post a little while ago with some examples if NYSDOT is given free reign up to 75. If I was personally in charge, many of those would go up 5-10mph higher than I listed them at, but alas my opinion means 0 to the DOT.

Now 75 really should be the real absolute minimum should cops decide to aggressively enforce them.

[webny99]

Just wondering about NY. If NY was allowed to post speed limits higher than 65, do you think any roads could be signed higher than 65? I think the Thruway could easily be 70 for the most part. What other roads do you think could be signed higher? If so, what do you think it could be signed at?

I-87 Northway has come up because of how remote it is. I-81 between cities would be another, and I've done I-88 at enough speed to recommend it for anything you'd like.

Sure, NY 531 could easily be 70, and the western stretches of I-490. I-390 may be too curvy or hilly, but it's certainly remote enough.

Agreed on the first two, and I definitely wouldn't say I-390 is too curvy/hilly to be 70 mph. US 15 in northern PA is already 70 mph, and it's much more curvy/hilly than I-390. When traveling back to Rochester via that route, I find you can drive faster on I-390 than US 15 despite the lower limit. I-390 could be 70 or 75 mph no problem IMO.

And since we're talking hypotheticals, the Thruway could be 80 or 85 mph if not for the heavy truck traffic.

[cockroachking]

And since we're talking hypotheticals, the Thruway could be 80 or 85 mph if not for the heavy truck traffic.

The 4 lane section of the Thruway between Harriman and Kingston is abysmal whenever it is overrun with city folk who have never seen a speed limit above 50, not when it has heavy truck traffic in my experience. The trucks on the Thruway are surprisingly patient when it comes to passing other trucks (no micro-passing), whereas the heavy tourist traffic results in a stream of 60mph passing the 55mph queue in the right, with a 2 mile long left lane queue and a slowdown to 40 or so every time someone decides to change lanes. This becomes even more magnified when city folk who don't understand KRETP decide they want to clog the left lane as well.
The trucks on the other hand usually cruise in the 70-75 range by themselves on the right (aided by the fact that the Thruway is relatively flat) and rarely pass at less than 70 unless there is a really slow car or truck in the right, and if they are passing, they actually pass rather than micro-pass. When the LOS is in the B to C range, the State Police will tailgate people in the left lane to help clear up some space, since at LOS A they sit in the median and at LOS D or worse they might as well not exist.

[MATraveler128]

And since we're talking hypotheticals, the Thruway could be 80 or 85 mph if not for the heavy truck traffic.

The 4 lane section of the Thruway between Harriman and Kingston is abysmal whenever it is overrun with city folk who have never seen a speed limit above 50, not when it has heavy truck traffic in my experience. The trucks on the Thruway are surprisingly patient when it comes to passing other trucks (no micro-passing), whereas the heavy tourist traffic results in a stream of 60mph passing the 55mph queue in the right, with a 2 mile long left lane queue and a slowdown to 40 or so every time someone decides to change lanes. This becomes even more magnified when city folk who don't understand KRETP decide they want to clog the left lane as well.
The trucks on the other hand usually cruise in the 70-75 range by themselves on the right (aided by the fact that the Thruway is relatively flat) and rarely pass at less than 70 unless there is a really slow car or truck in the right, and if they are passing, they actually pass rather than micro-pass. When the LOS is in the B to C range, the State Police will tailgate people in the left lane to help clear up some space, since at LOS A they sit in the median and at LOS D or worse they might as well not exist.

I haven't been on the Thruway in a while, but I do believe that they should be able to go up to 70 or 75 along with the rest of New York. From Suffern to NYC, forget it. Traffic is way to heavy to bump the speed limit to ANYTHING above 55. Cockroachking is right about the trucks. But sometimes, there will be two trucks elephant racing and there's nothing you can do.

[Ted$8roadFan]

And since we're talking hypotheticals, the Thruway could be 80 or 85 mph if not for the heavy truck traffic.

The 4 lane section of the Thruway between Harriman and Kingston is abysmal whenever it is overrun with city folk who have never seen a speed limit above 50, not when it has heavy truck traffic in my experience. The trucks on the Thruway are surprisingly patient when it comes to passing other trucks (no micro-passing), whereas the heavy tourist traffic results in a stream of 60mph passing the 55mph queue in the right, with a 2 mile long left lane queue and a slowdown to 40 or so every time someone decides to change lanes. This becomes even more magnified when city folk who don't understand KRETP decide they want to clog the left lane as well.
The trucks on the other hand usually cruise in the 70-75 range by themselves on the right (aided by the fact that the Thruway is relatively flat) and rarely pass at less than 70 unless there is a really slow car or truck in the right, and if they are passing, they actually pass rather than micro-pass. When the LOS is in the B to C range, the State Police will tailgate people in the left lane to help clear up some space, since at LOS A they sit in the median and at LOS D or worse they might as well not exist.

Out of curiosity, has there been any thought to the W word (widening) the thruway from Harriman to the Albany area?

[Rothman]

And since we're talking hypotheticals, the Thruway could be 80 or 85 mph if not for the heavy truck traffic.

The 4 lane section of the Thruway between Harriman and Kingston is abysmal whenever it is overrun with city folk who have never seen a speed limit above 50, not when it has heavy truck traffic in my experience. The trucks on the Thruway are surprisingly patient when it comes to passing other trucks (no micro-passing), whereas the heavy tourist traffic results in a stream of 60mph passing the 55mph queue in the right, with a 2 mile long left lane queue and a slowdown to 40 or so every time someone decides to change lanes. This becomes even more magnified when city folk who don't understand KRETP decide they want to clog the left lane as well.
The trucks on the other hand usually cruise in the 70-75 range by themselves on the right (aided by the fact that the Thruway is relatively flat) and rarely pass at less than 70 unless there is a really slow car or truck in the right, and if they are passing, they actually pass rather than micro-pass. When the LOS is in the B to C range, the State Police will tailgate people in the left lane to help clear up some space, since at LOS A they sit in the median and at LOS D or worse they might as well not exist.

Out of curiosity, has there been any thought to the W word (widening) the thruway from Harriman to the Albany area?

NYSTA has a looser policy when it comes to widening than NYSDOT.  See the "recent" widening from I-787 westward.

Haven't heard anything definitive on widening the section you mention, though.

[cockroachking]

Out of curiosity, has there been any thought to the W word (widening) the thruway from Harriman to the Albany area?

Only among people on here if I had to guess, though I don't work for NYSTA.
IMO, the long term goals should be:
8 Lanes: Exits 10-15, 15A-16, 24-25, and 50-55
6 Lanes: Exits 16-23, 25-27, 32-44, 45-50, 55-57.
No major changes needed for the rest of the segments for neither the present nor the foreseeable future.

[webny99]

No major changes needed for the rest of the segments for neither the present nor the foreseeable future.

Agreed for I-87, but you're talking about the entire Thruway, some four-lane sections of I-90 are nearly as busy as Harriman-Albany.

[kalvado]

No major changes needed for the rest of the segments for neither the present nor the foreseeable future.

Agreed for I-87, but you're talking about the entire Thruway, some four-lane sections of I-90 are nearly as busy as Harriman-Albany.

When I looked at the traffic counts in Catskills, they were surprisingly low.
Of course, summer weekend rush from NYC will be multiple times higher, but the usual question is if those rush days justify an upgrade. Especially with Daddy bridge credits being there for long term payoff

[empirestate]

The 4 lane section of the Thruway between Harriman and Kingston is abysmal whenever it is overrun with city folk who have never seen a speed limit above 50, not when it has heavy truck traffic in my experience. The trucks on the Thruway are surprisingly patient when it comes to passing other trucks (no micro-passing), whereas the heavy tourist traffic results in a stream of 60mph passing the 55mph queue in the right, with a 2 mile long left lane queue and a slowdown to 40 or so every time someone decides to change lanes. This becomes even more magnified when city folk who don't understand KRETP decide they want to clog the left lane as well.

This is a downstate thing overall, or even just any urban area where 3 lanes per side prevails. While left lane clogging happens occasionally, it's really the middle lane that's far worse. Many (or even most) people tend to think of it as the default lane, so that you get almost equal amounts of passing on the left and on the right. (This is especially evident if you remove trucks from the equation–i.e., parkways.)

One of the biggest difficulties with this approach is that someone needing to pass a single vehicle ahead of them often needs to move two lanes over to get around the middle lane, so that passing a single vehicle then becomes passing a whole line of vehicles. And then those who intended to use the left lane as their default are tempted to pass on the right as Plan A, so you have just a lot of back and forth where you oughtn't need it.

Lots of speed and direction changes, in other words, which are more intrinsically dangerous than pure speed (because two objects going the same speed and direction will never collide).

[Jim]

Speaking of places the Thruway needs widening, on the section I travel most between Albany and Amsterdam, a few relatively short sections with climbing lanes would help quite a bit between 25 and 27.  Eastbound, from the 26 onramp up to the top of the hill.  Westbound, from the 25A onramp to the top of the hill, and on the hill leading up to the 27 offramp.

[cl94]

The entire Boston-DC corridor tends to be crap with passing/keeping right in my experience. When 128 around Boston allowed breakdown lane travel, that was often the fastest lane. People who are always driving in congestion don't know how to drive on roads where you can pass.

Re: the W word, good luck. Widening in NY tends to come down to the P word and NYSTA barely has enough money to fix what it has. The other thing to consider with traffic counts is that a lot of people (myself included) stick to 9W during times of congestion because I'm not paying a toll to sit in traffic. Toll roads SHOULD be willing to widen at lower traffic counts, because people are more willing to pay tolls if the road is free-flow or close to it.

It should be noted that other states are willing to widen or implement managed lane schemes for heavy weekend traffic. The I-70 express lanes project west of Denver was mostly for weekend ski traffic. There is no realistic transit alternative for most of these O/D pairs by weekend Thruway users, so it's not like not widening is encouraging transit use.

It's funny that Thruway widening came up, because the Upstate NY Memes Instagram page posted a meme about it yesterday.

[empirestate]

The entire Boston-DC corridor tends to be crap with passing/keeping right in my experience. When 128 around Boston allowed breakdown lane travel, that was often the fastest lane. People who are always driving in congestion don't know how to drive on roads where you can pass.

Yeah, it's usually fine when there's only two lanes, but that's such a low percentage of the highways around here. I think it's partly because people who are used to congestion, once they get away from it, prefer to have a set it-and-forget it approach to driving, so they avoid the right lane with its frequent exits and entrances, and just camp out in the middle by default and let everyone else do all the work.

(And then they swear up and down that they never want self-driving vehicles...)

[cockroachking]

The entire Boston-DC corridor tends to be crap with passing/keeping right in my experience. When 128 around Boston allowed breakdown lane travel, that was often the fastest lane. People who are always driving in congestion don't know how to drive on roads where you can pass.

Yeah, it's usually fine when there's only two lanes, but that's such a low percentage of the highways around here. I think it's partly because people who are used to congestion, once they get away from it, prefer to have a set it-and-forget it approach to driving, so they avoid the right lane with its frequent exits and entrances, and just camp out in the middle by default and let everyone else do all the work.

(And then they swear up and down that they never want self-driving vehicles...)

Yes, this does seem to be a plague in the Northeast on 6 lane roads. At least, IMO, having 3 lanes in each direction seemingly adds at lot more capacity than it would on paper in my experience. This is just my observation though, so I'm not sure from an engineering standpoint if this is true.
I will admit that I do stay in the center lane more than I probably should, but I'm usually going fast enough that I'm not usually impeding traffic.
That being said, I do understand why people from urban areas, especially NYC, avoid the right lane like the plague, given the terrible ramp/accel/decel lane situations common in the NY metro.