Worst interstate ever

[Pete from Boston]

I must say that I'm a little surprised by all of the hatred for I-97. Not just here, but all of the "my renumbering proposal" kinds of threads.

I still remember when I first saw I-97 on a map back around '94. I was quite young...still kind of a proto-roadgeek...and this was well before I ever heard of m.t.r. or the MUTCD or any of the things I'd discover in the following years. And I was surprised to see I-97 shields on the map, but at least it fit the grid–and the fact that it was the shortest 2-digit Interstate I had ever seen was intriguing. And in part, I think those kinds of oddities–not out-and-out violations, but oddities–are the kinds of things that got me interested in roadgeeking in the first place. Even now, I'm completely fine with I-97. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not as if a bunch of other Eastern states are begging AASHTO for an Interstate designation, but they can't get one because 97 is already taken.

I was on a whirlwind weekend trip to DC and somehow ended up out on 50 late at night and came across and I-97 shield while all bleary-eyed.  It shocked and confused the hell out of me.  I knew there was no major long-distance highway there, so what the hell was this 97 that wasn't on any of my maps?  I was baffled and convinced the 24 hours awake had finally taken its toll.

Contrast that with 99: A politician of a politician from Nowheresville handpicks a vanity number for his pork-barrel graft-way... Gets my vote without question. ...if we're talking about numbering, that is.

FTFY (redundant)

[FightingIrish]

I say H-201.  Too many numbers to fit on a shield.

3 is too many?

Well, that's a judgement call you'd have to make on your own, but it does appear that way with 4 digits. I'd say just redesignate it as H1A or for those "suffixed-route-sensitive" folks, H4.

That's what Hawaii wanted to do in the first place. They wanted to call it I-H1A. AASHTO said no. The state struggled for years trying to figure out how to fit all those digits on a sign. So in the meantime, they signed it as a state highway.

Sometime last decade, they said screw it and started signing it as H201.

[thenetwork]

I-277 in Akron:

1) Less than 5 miles in length.
2) Does not connect to I-77 on one end, yet can easily be routed & co-signed with the 2 mile stretch of I-76 to do so.
3) I-277 is simply an overlap route on US-224. Simply signing it as US-224 - TO I-77 (or I-76) would serve the same purpose.
4) If ODOT truly wanted to make I-277 a true Akron bypass, co-sign I-277 further west along I-76/US 224 and route it up along the current SR-21 freeway back to I-77.

[NE2]

Guys... H is not a digit...

[Henry]

Although it probably will never be built, I-3 in GA is a prime candidate. Wrong number, wrong place. If anything, it should be used for a potential US 101 freeway upgrade between San Francisco and Los Angeles.

[FightingIrish]

Guys... H is not a digit...

Okay, how about 'character'? Or 'prefix'?

By using the term "digit", I'm pretty sure everyone but you knew what I was talking about.

Although it probably will never be built, I-3 in GA is a prime candidate. Wrong number, wrong place. If anything, it should be used for a potential US 101 freeway upgrade between San Francisco and Los Angeles.

I-3 in Georgia is ridiculous. Sounds to me like another Bud Shuster-type porkway. The numbering itself is asinine, and I don't care about the 3rd Division or whatever it's named after. Here in Wisconsin, we use state highways for that (like WIS 32).

But it will probably never be built anyways, since nobody but a few politicians and businessmen actually want it built. The environmentalists absolutely loathe the idea.

[Avalanchez71]

Guys... H is not a digit...

I got it after I typed my response.  Not only that, I stated too many numbers in lieu too many characters.

[Alps]

Other really terribly designed Interstates, honorable mentions behind I-278:

*I-280, Newark NJ: Takeover of NJ 58, four lanes barely squeezed in, and requires a high-volume weave to stay on the mainline in either direction (Garden State Parkway to Exit 13/unbuilt NJ 75).
*I-93 Boston - HOV Lane in particular. It begins, it ends, there are reversible barriers, stripes, signs, all in all it's a gigantic mess and then turns into way too much pavement near South Station. Obviously it's an afterthought to the whole system, but the engineering itself was an afterthought to the decision to put it in.
*I-495 NJ: Mercifully de-designated (you did say "ever"), this was only applied in the vain hope of connecting it to the actual freeway in NY. The NJ roadway was designed and constructed a lot earlier, has no shoulders, a reversible bus lane separated by only pylons, is impossible to widen thanks to rock walls and the community above, low clearances, choking traffic at all hours of the day, a crumbling helix loop that still hasn't been replaced...
*I-66 DC: The mile or so that you can travel on is a nightmare of entrances and exits on the left and right, with enough overpasses to make signing difficult to see at much more than 35 MPH. So be glad it was never extended as a through road with even more traffic.

[Pete from Boston]

There are so many contenders for Interstates that are bad at even being decent roads, but 84 west of I-91 in CT is a bad one.  Too much traffic for the two-lane section, too many tight turns, and the sloppy chaos of the Hartford section (unfulfilled interchanges galore that left only more hard turns and countless left exits).  Even the eastern New York section is annoying in that it reaches so far north to Newburgh to turn southwest again (yes, I realize and am glad that this avoids disturbing the breathtaking gorge south of Newburgh, but it renders 84 less practical a route).

[NE2]

Even the eastern New York section is annoying in that it reaches so far north to Newburgh to turn southwest again (yes, I realize and am glad that this avoids disturbing the breathtaking gorge south of Newburgh, but it renders 84 less practical a route).

It's doubtful that any mileage would have been saved by going over the Bear Mountain. As it is, I-84 and US 6 are almost exactly the same length between Brewster and Middletown

[Pete from Boston]

Even the eastern New York section is annoying in that it reaches so far north to Newburgh to turn southwest again (yes, I realize and am glad that this avoids disturbing the breathtaking gorge south of Newburgh, but it renders 84 less practical a route).

It's doubtful that any mileage would have been saved by going over the Bear Mountain. As it is, I-84 and US 6 are almost exactly the same length between Brewster and Middletown

No, 6 is indeed a long way to go as well.  I guess in a scenario free of consequences I'd hope for a route that bisects the current paths of 84 and 6.  Of course, other than said topography that straight line also contains a whole lot of rich people and military, so it'd be a non-starter anyway.

[Billy F 1988]

Guys... H is not a digit...

So, are you saying that A is not a digit, either? How is it then that AASHTO or some sort of DoT representative allow I-A1, 2, 3 and 4 in Alaska and H1, 2, 3, and 201 in Hawaii? I guess were prefix and suffix sensitive now.

In my case, I think I-90 and 15 are worse in winter time conditions and people don't realize the fact that when you pack snow down on to the roadway with the weight of the car, truck, or whatever, it acts like ice. Or when the dirt and deicing agents mix with snow, sort of what I call a "soup kettle", a.k.a. slush, that is never a good thing. I think most Montanans realize the fact because of how long certain people lived in the state. I've been in Montana long enough to understand that if the roads on I-90 and 15 get that bad in winter, fuck it. I ain't taking a chance at driving there. Heck, if we were to take a poll on worst state highways in regards to extreme weather conditions, MT 200 would take the cake because that cuts through Rogers Pass. I-15 cuts through Monida while 90 cuts by Lookout Pass, and 4th of July Pass on the Idaho side.

[vdeane]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not as if a bunch of other Eastern states are begging AASHTO for an Interstate designation, but they can't get one because 97 is already taken.

Actually, all of the north-south 2dis in the east have been used up.  Even if Schuster hadn't wanted I-99 because he liked the number, AASHTO would have had no other choice in designating the road because it was the only number available (don't forget, it's supposed to extend to Corning, so a 3di wouldn't work here).

[NE2]

The problem is with an AASHTO rule that says, essentially, "U.S. routes must follow the best routing between two points". This dates back from the 1920s and was meant to avoid someone benefiting from circuitous routings (like auto trail organizations or corrupt politicians). Unfortunately, these days it basically only prevents any US route from being moved off a freeway.

It seems that this rule is from 1937: http://www.gbcnet.com/ushighways/history/new_signing_policy_on_us_routes.pdf

No additional road shall be added to the U.S. numbered road system, and no existing U.S. road shall be extended except where there is a definite showing of an adequately improved highway carrying an established and necessary line of interstate traffic not otherwise provided for by existing U.S. routes and for which traffic adequate service cannot be provided by State route numbers.

I still say that the decision to use a separate numbering for Interstates changed the dynamic, and that Interstates should be ignored when applying the rule. This usually only comes up when a new Interstate number not in the original plans is added.

I just remembered another fairly recent change that goes against this rule: US 41 between Jasper and Monteagle, TN. US 41 was moved off I-24 in about 1980 onto a parallel route that had never been a U.S. Highway.

[bugo]

I voted "Other", since I didn't see Vermont's I-189 on the list. It has no interchanges, not up to a full freeway in part, and is way too short. It's nothing more than a glorified set of ramps.

What part of it is not freeway standard?  You're not talking about the crossover are you?

[TEG24601]

I voted "Other", since I didn't see Vermont's I-189 on the list. It has no interchanges, not up to a full freeway in part, and is way too short. It's nothing more than a glorified set of ramps.

Sounds similar to Detroit's I-375, less than 1 mile long, one off ramp South, one on ramp North, and ends at a traffic light.

[xonhulu]

So, are you saying that A is not a digit, either? How is it then that AASHTO or some sort of DoT representative allow I-A1, 2, 3 and 4 in Alaska and H1, 2, 3, and 201 in Hawaii? I guess were prefix and suffix sensitive now.

I once had a theory was that since their "interstates were never going to be connected to the main Interstate (I- ) system, they were given a different letter prefix and considered to be separate H-  and A-  systems.  Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case, but those pesky H's and A's would've made more sense if it had.

As for I-H201: I don't see why it couldn't have just been I-H4.  After all, I-H2 and I-H3 are so short they could've just been 3di spurs of I-H1, but they were given their own numbers.  I-H201 should've gotten the same treatment.

[deathtopumpkins]

So, are you saying that A is not a digit, either? How is it then that AASHTO or some sort of DoT representative allow I-A1, 2, 3 and 4 in Alaska and H1, 2, 3, and 201 in Hawaii? I guess were prefix and suffix sensitive now.

I once had a theory was that since their "interstates were never going to be connected to the main Interstate (I- ) system, they were given a different letter prefix and considered to be separate H-  and A-  systems.  Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case, but those pesky H's and A's would've made more sense if it had.

As for I-H201: I don't see why it couldn't have just been I-H4.  After all, I-H2 and I-H3 are so short they could've just been 3di spurs of I-H1, but they were given their own numbers.  I-H201 should've gotten the same treatment.

I believe I read somewhere that they wanted to emphasize that H-201 was an alternate to H-1, rather than a separate route connecting a different place.

[xonhulu]

I believe I read somewhere that they wanted to emphasize that H-201 was an alternate to H-1, rather than a separate route connecting a different place.

I thought of that, too.

There is another radical solution to the 4 characters on a shield problem: why not just leave off the H's?  Even with I-2 existing in Texas, no one's going to confuse that with a Hawaiian I-2, just like no one has trouble with the dual branches of I-76, I-84, I-86, and I-88.  Same with any future I-1 or I-3 on the mainland. 

If there's really a need to differentiate the Hawaii interstates from their mainland counterparts, then go back to my original notion that they comprise a separate system, and modify the shields like so:

   

The same could be done for Alaska if they want to sign their interstate-quality freeways with red-and-blues.

Anyway, just a thought.  I actually kind of like the H's on those freeways, even with the absurdity of having 4 characters on the H201 shields.  It's the oddballs that make the network interesting.

[Molandfreak]

I believe I read somewhere that they wanted to emphasize that H-201 was an alternate to H-1, rather than a separate route connecting a different place.

I thought of that, too.

There is another radical solution to the 4 characters on a shield problem: why not just leave off the H's?  Even with I-2 existing in Texas, no one's going to confuse that with a Hawaiian I-2, just like no one has trouble with the dual branches of I-76, I-84, I-86, and I-88.  Same with any future I-1 or I-3 on the mainland. 

If there's really a need to differentiate the Hawaii interstates from their mainland counterparts, then go back to my original notion that they comprise a separate system, and modify the shields like so:

   

The same could be done for Alaska if they want to sign their interstate-quality freeways with red-and-blues.

Anyway, just a thought.  I actually kind of like the H's on those freeways, even with the absurdity of having 4 characters on the H201 shields.  It's the oddballs that make the network interesting.

My quibble is with that spec, there has to be something where the state name would normally go, otherwise it simply doesn't look right.

[agentsteel53]

larger numbers.

use 10" on the 24" blank instead of 8" and that slightly awkward gap goes away.

[deathtopumpkins]

Or, instead of using HAWAII in place of INTERSTATE, go back to using state-named shields. 

[1995hoo]

My quibble is with that spec, there has to be something where the state name would normally go, otherwise it simply doesn't look right.

Depending on where one lives, one could respond, "What do you mean? There's no state name on an Interstate shield." 

[xonhulu]

My quibble is with that spec, there has to be something where the state name would normally go, otherwise it simply doesn't look right.

I would've moved the numbers up and/or made them bigger to fill that space, but the shield generator didn't have that feature and I didn't feel like spending forever modifying the pic.  The point was to substitute "Hawaii" for "Interstate" to denote that it's part of the Hawaii "interstate" system, not the mainland Interstate system.  And even I realize that's probably a lot of bother just to eliminate the H.

[NE2]

Too bad there's no non-Latin Hawaiian orthography, or you could put the native name written in such in one of the spaces.