I have an interest in old photos and information about US 199. My current interest is the Expressway Portion from Grant's Pass to Riverbanks Rd. When was the Expressway built and are there any old photos of this section?
Wish I knew! Have you driven the section which was bypassed when the Collier Tunnel was built? That is an interesting drive!
Rick
I haven't hit US 199 yet in our blog series but it does have a pretty long history given it was part of Legislative Route 1 on the California side. I would suggest looking the California Highways & Public Works guides on archive.com. Those CHPW guides will have a ton of vintage photos and construction dates on when US 199 was shifted around in California. I don't have a ton of sources for Oregon but there is an Oregon Roads blog series on Blogger that might have what you're after.
For what it's worth Doug did touch on US 199 recently in the context of the Winnemucca to the Sea Highway recently:
https://www.gribblenation.org/2020/04/winnemucca-to-sea-highway.html?m=1
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2020, 01:42:06 PM
I haven’t hit US 199 yet in our blog series but it does have a pretty long history given it was part of Legislative Route 1 on the California side. I would suggest looking the California Highways & Public Works guides on archive.com. Those CHPW guides will have a ton of vintage photos and construction dates on when US 199 was shifted around in California. I don’t have a ton of sources for Oregon but there is an Oregon Roads blog series on Blogger that might have what you’re after.
My paternal grandmother came over US 199 before it was even US 199 and did it in a Conestoga wagon as the family moved to Loleta CA, then on to Gold Beach OR after that. Back then (early 20th century) it was likely a stagecoach route. One of those came to Coos County back in the 1870's.
Rick
There's a HISTORIC US 99 facebook group that includes 199, 299, and 399 as valid entries, so they may be able to help.
Quote from: nexus73 on April 24, 2020, 04:42:32 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2020, 01:42:06 PM
I haven't hit US 199 yet in our blog series but it does have a pretty long history given it was part of Legislative Route 1 on the California side. I would suggest looking the California Highways & Public Works guides on archive.com. Those CHPW guides will have a ton of vintage photos and construction dates on when US 199 was shifted around in California. I don't have a ton of sources for Oregon but there is an Oregon Roads blog series on Blogger that might have what you're after.
My paternal grandmother came over US 199 before it was even US 199 and did it in a Conestoga wagon as the family moved to Loleta CA, then on to Gold Beach OR after that. Back then (early 20th century) it was likely a stagecoach route. One of those came to Coos County back in the 1870's.
Rick
Rick
I read about it once, the corridor definitely a historic stage route. That's why I've been kicking myself for not salvaging any US 199 photos off my computer. I have some of the Redwood Groves but that's it. I was actually supposed to drive it for the third time this weekend before things went nuts.
Regarding US 199 it does come up now and then on the Historic US 99 Facebook group.
Should you make it to Wolf Creek OR Max (along I-5 between Grants Pass and Roseburg), there is an original stage coach stop that is restored. Inside is a decent restaurant serving homestyle fried chicken along with other meals made in the same vein. Rooms can be rented for the night as well. This facility is run by the State Parks department.
Rick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_199#History
^^^
I was looking at the references on the Wikipedia page, it was the Park Service articles what I was referring to. Too bad they come back as dead links now...seems to be a theme with NPS.gov these days. :meh:
Anyways, I have started something on Gribblenation for US Route 199. So far I'm through the wagon era through to Oregon Highway 25 and Legislative Route 1. The major shift of LRN 1 from the Gasquet Toll Road (LRN 1 was extended during the 1919 Third State Highway Bond Act to the Oregon State Line) to the Redwood Highway/Smith River Highway alignment is stated to be open in the April 1925 CHPW. So far this what I have worked out for the alignment of the Gasquet Toll Road from Crescent City to the Oregon State Line:
- Elk Valley Road/Sign County Route D2.
- Howland Hill Road
- Douglas Park Road
- South Fork Road
- US Route 199
- Gasquet Flat Road
- Gasquet Middle Fork Road
- Old Gasquet Toll Road
- Patrick Creek Road
Regarding vintage photos I can attest the CHPW guides do have plenty of photos. I have been able to track down not only typical run of California Highway Maps on David Rumsey but a lot for Oregon as well. Interestingly there appears to have never been a documented Auto Trail over LRN 1 or Oregon Highway 25.
Found an NPS article on the Gasquet Toll Road which corroborates the missing Wikipedia reference link:
https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/5views/5views3h38.htm
My speculative guess is that this is the article that was referenced on Wikipedia. The Gasquet Toll Road would have been effectively Legislative Route 1 in California from 1919 to 1925. I suppose the timing making sense for the 1919 adoption given toll franchises typically had a 25 right to their road. That would explain why the Gasquet Toll Road wasn't part of the 1909 First State Highway Bond act version of Legislative Route 1; the state didn't want to buy it. I wouldn't want to buy a toll road when I could get from Del Norte County within a couple years either...smart move IMO.
Here is something for the Crescent City & Yreka Turnpike Company. Essentially they built the plank road over Oregon Mountain that is now Wilmer Road along with the General
Right of way for current US 199 in Oregon and OR 238. This is another substitute for the dead Wikipedia link:
https://www.cagenweb.org/delnorte/history_crescent_city.html
Quote from: nexus73 on April 24, 2020, 08:06:33 PM
Should you make it to Wolf Creek OR Max (along I-5 between Grants Pass and Roseburg), there is an original stage coach stop that is restored. Inside is a decent restaurant serving homestyle fried chicken along with other meals made in the same vein. Rooms can be rented for the night as well. This facility is run by the State Parks department.
Rick
Well it is an Old US 99 thing it looks so that might something I look at whenever I can get back executing the planned trip that was supposed to commence this weekend.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 25, 2020, 01:55:35 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on April 24, 2020, 08:06:33 PM
Should you make it to Wolf Creek OR Max (along I-5 between Grants Pass and Roseburg), there is an original stage coach stop that is restored. Inside is a decent restaurant serving homestyle fried chicken along with other meals made in the same vein. Rooms can be rented for the night as well. This facility is run by the State Parks department.
Rick
Well it is an Old US 99 thing it looks so that might something I look at whenever I can get back executing the planned trip that was supposed to commence this weekend.
The best laid plans of mice and men...LOL! Our forum will be richer when you get out on da' road and start taking pix, then telling us the stories of the routes you drive. Besides, you are saving me gas :-)
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on April 25, 2020, 05:01:20 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 25, 2020, 01:55:35 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on April 24, 2020, 08:06:33 PM
Should you make it to Wolf Creek OR Max (along I-5 between Grants Pass and Roseburg), there is an original stage coach stop that is restored. Inside is a decent restaurant serving homestyle fried chicken along with other meals made in the same vein. Rooms can be rented for the night as well. This facility is run by the State Parks department.
Rick
Well it is an Old US 99 thing it looks so that might something I look at whenever I can get back executing the planned trip that was supposed to commence this weekend.
The best laid plans of mice and men...LOL! Our forum will be richer when you get out on da' road and start taking pix, then telling us the stories of the routes you drive. Besides, you are saving me gas :-)
Rick
Short term we'll see how the "telling tales" part goes. I anticipate being done with the US Route 199 article this weekend. My photo stock of US 199 sucks so we'll see how fleshing it out with Google, the Post Mile Tool, and a couple others sources works for the route log. I'm pretty happy with the story narrative so far regarding the history of the highway. But to that end the second I can get back out on some long distance trip I will be. Really the only obligation holding me back is work at the moment...which limits me to day trip distance.
To that end, man am I glad that got that Mexico trip in when I did. The shit really hit the fan in the first two weeks after I got back.
Quote from: RoadFan99 on April 24, 2020, 01:59:55 AM
I have an interest in old photos and information about US 199. My current interest is the Expressway Portion from Grant's Pass to Riverbanks Rd. When was the Expressway built and are there any old photos of this section?
I drove 199 in both directions in December of 2018. The expressway seemed new to me, which probably just means it was built after about 2000. Cave Junction sure seemed a whole lot bigger. Sorry that's not very much help, I have no photos.
Quote from: kkt on April 25, 2020, 08:16:01 PM
Quote from: RoadFan99 on April 24, 2020, 01:59:55 AM
I have an interest in old photos and information about US 199. My current interest is the Expressway Portion from Grant's Pass to Riverbanks Rd. When was the Expressway built and are there any old photos of this section?
I drove 199 in both directions in December of 2018. The expressway seemed new to me, which probably just means it was built after about 2000. Cave Junction sure seemed a whole lot bigger. Sorry that's not very much help, I have no photos.
It would be nice to see US 199 get 4-laned all the way to the south end of Cave Junction. The amount of small towns between the two cities plus the tourist draw that is the caves themselves generating traffic would suggest such. Of course ODOT will never see the light so we will never see such upgrading take place any time soon.
Rick
I'm presently going through the CHPW volumes looking for anything US 199 related. In the July/August 1929 issue there is an article detailing the opening the Hiouchi Bridge on the Smith River on June 22nd.
https://archive.org/details/californiahighwa192729calirich/page/n495/mode/2up/search/Crescent+City
This is the 1935 California Division of Highways Map of Del Norte County. US 199/LRN 1 can be seen departing US 101 via Parkway Drive in Crescent City. US 199/LRN 1 can be seen climbing Oregon Mountain Road to the Oregon State Line above where the Collier Tunnel is now. Notably the Old Gasquet Toll Road can be seen north of US 199 starting at Adams Station:
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~247277~5515349:Del-Norte-County-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:california%20division%20of%20highways%20del%20norte;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=0&trs=1
Also, I believe the Crescent City & Yreka Turnpike Company Road is what is shown at T.19N.R.2EH.
The section between Helms Road and OR 99 has been around since the 1970s, since I'm seeing it without signs of fresh construction in 1982 imagery on Historic Aerials.
Hiouchi Bridge on bridgehunter, lots of photos:
https://bridgehunter.com/ca/del-norte/hiouchi/
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 10:03:27 AM
Hiouchi Bridge on bridgehunter, lots of photos:
https://bridgehunter.com/ca/del-norte/hiouchi/
The last photo showing the bridge painted white as portrayed on a postcard sure looks gorgeous! Imagine finding such an attractive bridge in the middle of nowhere back in the day. It would have been a real highlight of the drive along US 199, which is filled with highlights!
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on April 26, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 10:03:27 AM
Hiouchi Bridge on bridgehunter, lots of photos:
https://bridgehunter.com/ca/del-norte/hiouchi/
The last photo showing the bridge painted white as portrayed on a postcard sure looks gorgeous! Imagine finding such an attractive bridge in the middle of nowhere back in the day. It would have been a real highlight of the drive along US 199, which is filled with highlights!
Rick
Too bad a truck destroyed it in the 1980s, that seems to be a common theme with truss spans.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 01:08:29 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on April 26, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 10:03:27 AM
Hiouchi Bridge on bridgehunter, lots of photos:
https://bridgehunter.com/ca/del-norte/hiouchi/
The last photo showing the bridge painted white as portrayed on a postcard sure looks gorgeous! Imagine finding such an attractive bridge in the middle of nowhere back in the day. It would have been a real highlight of the drive along US 199, which is filled with highlights!
Rick
Too bad a truck destroyed it in the 1980s, that seems to be a common theme with truss spans.
I wondered what happened to it! Too bad.
Quote from: kkt on April 26, 2020, 01:14:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 01:08:29 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on April 26, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 10:03:27 AM
Hiouchi Bridge on bridgehunter, lots of photos:
https://bridgehunter.com/ca/del-norte/hiouchi/
The last photo showing the bridge painted white as portrayed on a postcard sure looks gorgeous! Imagine finding such an attractive bridge in the middle of nowhere back in the day. It would have been a real highlight of the drive along US 199, which is filled with highlights!
Rick
Too bad a truck destroyed it in the 1980s, that seems to be a common theme with truss spans.
I wondered what happened to it! Too bad.
Demolished and replaced with the boring cookie cutter bridge that's there now. The current bridge in particular is the worst kind of cookie cutter bland too, it really doesn't match what is a really pretty river.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 26, 2020, 01:14:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 01:08:29 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on April 26, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 10:03:27 AM
Hiouchi Bridge on bridgehunter, lots of photos:
https://bridgehunter.com/ca/del-norte/hiouchi/
The last photo showing the bridge painted white as portrayed on a postcard sure looks gorgeous! Imagine finding such an attractive bridge in the middle of nowhere back in the day. It would have been a real highlight of the drive along US 199, which is filled with highlights!
Rick
Too bad a truck destroyed it in the 1980s, that seems to be a common theme with truss spans.
I wondered what happened to it! Too bad.
Demolished and replaced with the boring cookie cutter bridge that’s there now. The current bridge in particular is the worst kind of cookie cutter bland too, it really doesn’t match what is a really pretty river.
If you make it to Gasquet, look for She-She's. It is an old-fashioned roadside joint to eat at. An older couple owns it but only the wife is healthy enough to work there. When she dies, most likely the business dies. Fries are of the greasy homestyle type that I love (you may not) and the burgers are decent. Real milkshakes are available.
Making a local loop trip using US 101, US 199 and SR 197 will let whoever does the drive see redwoods and the Smith River. On entering SR 197 from the US 199 end, a mileage sign with on oversized "101" symbol on it will be seen. It is worth taking a pix of as this signage bit is unique.
Good luck with the Collier Tunnel rest stop. It is erratic in terms of being open but when it is, you will be amazed at the size it has as well as the beauty of the location. US 199's California section goes down as the most scenic E/W (US 101 to I-5) highway for the area running from Del Norte to Lane counties. It is also the narrowest and most curvy too!
Rick
Here is the September/October 1960 CHPW guide which details the ground breaking ceremony of the Hazelview Tunnel (Collier Tunnel). The old alignment of US 199 is pictured and there is even an alignment comparison:
https://archive.org/details/cavol3940liforniahigh6061wa00calirich/page/n311/mode/2up/search/Crescent+City
A construction article regarding the Hazelview Tunnel in the May/June 1961 CHPW:
https://archive.org/details/cavol3940liforniahigh6061wa00calirich/page/n663/mode/2up/search/Crescent+City
Information on the "Collier Tunnel" opening on July 27th, 1963. The later year CHPW guides really sucked:
https://archive.org/details/cvol4142alifornia196263hiwacalirich/page/60/mode/2up/search/Crescent+City
Regarding Redwood Avenue in Grants Pass it appears the alignment shift to the modern expressway took place at some point between 1956 and 1967. US 199 is shown on Redwood Avenue on a 1956 Oregon Shell Highway Map:
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~212145~5500248:Shell-Highway-Map-of-Oregon-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:oregon%20highway;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=17&trs=34
Whereas the 1967 California Division of Highways Map shows the modern expressway:
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239516~5511844:State-Highway-Map,-California,-1967?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans%201967;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=0&trs=2
I've found USGS maps unreliable to determine highway alignment shifts and historicaerials tends to not being the best for accuracy on their photo data. Really to pin point the date conclusively a public works document of some kind is needed...or at least an idea of what the date of construction for the bridge at the Applegate River is.
Quote from: nexus73 on April 26, 2020, 04:54:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 26, 2020, 01:14:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 01:08:29 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on April 26, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2020, 10:03:27 AM
Hiouchi Bridge on bridgehunter, lots of photos:
https://bridgehunter.com/ca/del-norte/hiouchi/
The last photo showing the bridge painted white as portrayed on a postcard sure looks gorgeous! Imagine finding such an attractive bridge in the middle of nowhere back in the day. It would have been a real highlight of the drive along US 199, which is filled with highlights!
Rick
Too bad a truck destroyed it in the 1980s, that seems to be a common theme with truss spans.
I wondered what happened to it! Too bad.
Demolished and replaced with the boring cookie cutter bridge that's there now. The current bridge in particular is the worst kind of cookie cutter bland too, it really doesn't match what is a really pretty river.
If you make it to Gasquet, look for She-She's. It is an old-fashioned roadside joint to eat at. An older couple owns it but only the wife is healthy enough to work there. When she dies, most likely the business dies. Fries are of the greasy homestyle type that I love (you may not) and the burgers are decent. Real milkshakes are available.
Making a local loop trip using US 101, US 199 and SR 197 will let whoever does the drive see redwoods and the Smith River. On entering SR 197 from the US 199 end, a mileage sign with on oversized "101" symbol on it will be seen. It is worth taking a pix of as this signage bit is unique.
Good luck with the Collier Tunnel rest stop. It is erratic in terms of being open but when it is, you will be amazed at the size it has as well as the beauty of the location. US 199's California section goes down as the most scenic E/W (US 101 to I-5) highway for the area running from Del Norte to Lane counties. It is also the narrowest and most curvy too!
Rick
Thanks! I will look for She-She's. I'm up for anything that involves real milkshakes.
And the loop, I didn't do last time but have in the past. I stop at the Collier Tunnel Rest Area every time I do that route, even when it was "closed" last time I parked outside and walked through.
Here is the final product on US Route 199, I'll be cross posting this on the Southwest board also:
https://www.gribblenation.org/2020/04/us-route-199.html
Interesting to read one of the newspaper articles talking about a second tunnel to go with the first and making a 4-lane road. The part of US 199 north of the tunnel goes through less rugged terrain than what lays south. Between the current section of expressway and Collier Tunnel lies some of the roughest terrain one could have to place a freeway in. Had it been done, we would have seen quite the engineering feat!
Thank you for a well put-together article on US 199 Max. This highway is a favorite drive of mine and as posted earlier, there is some family history involved too. It is nice to learn more about our most liked routes!
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on April 27, 2020, 06:31:10 PM
Interesting to read one of the newspaper articles talking about a second tunnel to go with the first and making a 4-lane road. The part of US 199 north of the tunnel goes through less rugged terrain than what lays south. Between the current section of expressway and Collier Tunnel lies some of the roughest terrain one could have to place a freeway in. Had it been done, we would have seen quite the engineering feat!
Thank you for a well put-together article on US 199 Max. This highway is a favorite drive of mine and as posted earlier, there is some family history involved too. It is nice to learn more about our most liked routes!
Rick
That's the interesting thing, Oregon has far more workable terrain on US 199 but California was the one pushing for the freeway. It seems that that big flooding in 1964 at least got some of the expressway east of Gasquet constructed. The change from the end of that expressway back to a two-lane highway is really abrupt and not something that one would expect driving the highway for the first time.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 27, 2020, 06:36:06 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on April 27, 2020, 06:31:10 PM
Interesting to read one of the newspaper articles talking about a second tunnel to go with the first and making a 4-lane road. The part of US 199 north of the tunnel goes through less rugged terrain than what lays south. Between the current section of expressway and Collier Tunnel lies some of the roughest terrain one could have to place a freeway in. Had it been done, we would have seen quite the engineering feat!
Thank you for a well put-together article on US 199 Max. This highway is a favorite drive of mine and as posted earlier, there is some family history involved too. It is nice to learn more about our most liked routes!
Rick
That's the interesting thing, Oregon has far more workable terrain on US 199 but California was the one pushing for the freeway. It seems that that big flooding in 1964 at least got some of the expressway east of Gasquet constructed. The change from the end of that expressway back to a two-lane highway is really abrupt and not something that one would expect driving the highway for the first time.
4-laning US 199 in Oregon to the border and then on to the Collier Tunnel is a cakewalk. After that the difficulty level gets set to supermax!
Rick
Nice article, Max!
It makes some sense. The Oregon part has fairly easy curves and grades. It's the California part that's "interesting" and I can see more people wanting it upgraded - if not to a freeway, then rerouted with heavier engineering to a gentler 2-lane road.
Amusing that the "Winnemucca to the Sea!" folks thought Grant's Pass to Crescent City would be a good last stage to get to the sea! The mountains along 199 would have been a significant obstacle. Having reached what's now I-5 at Medford, it looks like north along I-5 to Sutherlin and then NW on OR 138 and OR 38 to Reedsport would be the easier route.
Quote from: kkt on April 27, 2020, 11:46:00 PM
Nice article, Max!
It makes some sense. The Oregon part has fairly easy curves and grades. It's the California part that's "interesting" and I can see more people wanting it upgraded - if not to a freeway, then rerouted with heavier engineering to a gentler 2-lane road.
Amusing that the "Winnemucca to the Sea!" folks thought Grant's Pass to Crescent City would be a good last stage to get to the sea! The mountains along 199 would have been a significant obstacle. Having reached what's now I-5 at Medford, it looks like north along I-5 to Sutherlin and then NW on OR 138 and OR 38 to Reedsport would be the easier route.
The stretch of I-5 between Grants Pass and Roseburg is the most hazardous of all. Why? Lots of steep grades! Heavy truck traffic with only 2 lanes to work with plus some shoulder space make for a dangerous deal due to the congestion. ODOT to their credit is doing the 3-lane uphill deal on some sections but in all honesty. I-5 needs to be 6-laned in those sections as going downhill slowly is an absolute necessity for the 18-wheelers. Give them that lane and everyone else has a chance. Until such happens, I cannot recommend using this section of I-5 unless you are an extremely good driver when encountering such conditions.
Rick
Quote from: kkt on April 27, 2020, 11:46:00 PM
Nice article, Max!
It makes some sense. The Oregon part has fairly easy curves and grades. It's the California part that's "interesting" and I can see more people wanting it upgraded - if not to a freeway, then rerouted with heavier engineering to a gentler 2-lane road.
Amusing that the "Winnemucca to the Sea!" folks thought Grant's Pass to Crescent City would be a good last stage to get to the sea! The mountains along 199 would have been a significant obstacle. Having reached what's now I-5 at Medford, it looks like north along I-5 to Sutherlin and then NW on OR 138 and OR 38 to Reedsport would be the easier route.
Not to mention, there was no way in hell that US 199 was going to be renumbered with the hassle California would have put up even during the 1964 Highway Renumbering era. I'm not sure why US 140 was even picked given that the original highway was still in service at the time. If anything the Winnemucca to the Sea Highway could have been pursued as an extension of US 199 eastward to Nevada.
Just got this email from ODOT. It is about a new Safety Corridor designation on the Illinois Valley section of US 199. If any of you are going to drive the highway, please do not get a ticket as fines double in Safety Corridors!
April 28, 2020
SELMA — A crash-prone section of U.S. 199 between Selma and Cave Junction will be designated as a safety corridor starting Friday, May 1.
Safety corridors are designed to raise public awareness. Fines will double in the seven-mile area and motorists will see an increase in law enforcement patrols. As an added safety measure, drivers are encouraged to use their headlights at all times.
This section of Redwood Highway has a higher crash rate than other rural highways, according to ODOT Transportation Safety Coordinator Rosalee Senger. Crash rates tend to be higher in urban areas where there are more intersections.
In 2019, there were four fatal crashes in this area between June 1 and August 30.
The goal of the safety corridor, which will run through May 2022, is to encourage people to drive carefully and avoid these common errors:
-Driving too fast for conditions,
-Following too close and making improper lane changes,
-Failing to decrease speed for slow-moving vehicles.
The Illinois Valley community, including the U.S. 199 Safety Corridor Stakeholder group, has voiced support for establishing a safety corridor. Members of the group include law enforcement, emergency medical personnel, state and county road authorities and community members.
Later this year, ODOT will begin a planning study of the Redwood Highway, which will suggest safety improvements and future projects for the corridor.
<end of cut and paste>
Rick
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 27, 2020, 11:58:27 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 27, 2020, 11:46:00 PM
Nice article, Max!
It makes some sense. The Oregon part has fairly easy curves and grades. It's the California part that's "interesting" and I can see more people wanting it upgraded - if not to a freeway, then rerouted with heavier engineering to a gentler 2-lane road.
Amusing that the "Winnemucca to the Sea!" folks thought Grant's Pass to Crescent City would be a good last stage to get to the sea! The mountains along 199 would have been a significant obstacle. Having reached what's now I-5 at Medford, it looks like north along I-5 to Sutherlin and then NW on OR 138 and OR 38 to Reedsport would be the easier route.
Not to mention, there was no way in hell that US 199 was going to be renumbered with the hassle California would have put up even during the 1964 Highway Renumbering era. I'm not sure why US 140 was even picked given that the original highway was still in service at the time. If anything the Winnemucca to the Sea Highway could have been pursued as an extension of US 199 eastward to Nevada.
It was mid-1950s, so the main route was US 40 over Donner Pass to Sacramento and San Francisco, and US 140 was chosen as a branch of it. But, yes, California wasn't interested in the Winnemucca boosters' opinion.
Quote from: kkt on April 28, 2020, 02:06:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 27, 2020, 11:58:27 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 27, 2020, 11:46:00 PM
Nice article, Max!
It makes some sense. The Oregon part has fairly easy curves and grades. It's the California part that's "interesting" and I can see more people wanting it upgraded - if not to a freeway, then rerouted with heavier engineering to a gentler 2-lane road.
Amusing that the "Winnemucca to the Sea!" folks thought Grant's Pass to Crescent City would be a good last stage to get to the sea! The mountains along 199 would have been a significant obstacle. Having reached what's now I-5 at Medford, it looks like north along I-5 to Sutherlin and then NW on OR 138 and OR 38 to Reedsport would be the easier route.
Not to mention, there was no way in hell that US 199 was going to be renumbered with the hassle California would have put up even during the 1964 Highway Renumbering era. I'm not sure why US 140 was even picked given that the original highway was still in service at the time. If anything the Winnemucca to the Sea Highway could have been pursued as an extension of US 199 eastward to Nevada.
It was mid-1950s, so the main route was US 40 over Donner Pass to Sacramento and San Francisco, and US 140 was chosen as a branch of it. But, yes, California wasn't interested in the Winnemucca boosters' opinion.
Any idea what exact year the Winnemucca concept started to pop up? Did they ever try to get approval from the AASHTO or said screw it because California wasn't on board?
Quote from: kkt on April 28, 2020, 02:06:42 PM
It was mid-1950s, so the main route was US 40 over Donner Pass to Sacramento and San Francisco, and US 140 was chosen as a branch of it. But, yes, California wasn't interested in the Winnemucca boosters' opinion.
Do you have a source that specifically says the Winnemucca boosters wanted the WTTS to be a US Highway? I just looked over several articles on the highway's history online, and they all just said the boosters wanted the consistent number 140 for the highway, but didn't specifically say it had to be US 140.
And basically, Oregon and Nevada did just that to create MSR 140. Oregon even renumbered an existing highway (OR 66 between K Falls and Lakeview). And Nevada kept the 140 number even through the Great Renumbering. So the boosters almost got their wish with a multi-state route, albeit one that didn't include the Redwood Highway.
But that suggests another reason US 199 wasn't included. If there was never any intention to give the WTTS a US Route designation, then changing US 199 to MSR 140 would've been a demotion in status. Add that to an awkward concurrency with US 99/I-5 and the conflict with the existing CA 140, and it was probably just too bothersome to pursue.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2020, 02:24:45 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 28, 2020, 02:06:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 27, 2020, 11:58:27 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 27, 2020, 11:46:00 PM
Nice article, Max!
It makes some sense. The Oregon part has fairly easy curves and grades. It's the California part that's "interesting" and I can see more people wanting it upgraded - if not to a freeway, then rerouted with heavier engineering to a gentler 2-lane road.
Amusing that the "Winnemucca to the Sea!" folks thought Grant's Pass to Crescent City would be a good last stage to get to the sea! The mountains along 199 would have been a significant obstacle. Having reached what's now I-5 at Medford, it looks like north along I-5 to Sutherlin and then NW on OR 138 and OR 38 to Reedsport would be the easier route.
Not to mention, there was no way in hell that US 199 was going to be renumbered with the hassle California would have put up even during the 1964 Highway Renumbering era. I'm not sure why US 140 was even picked given that the original highway was still in service at the time. If anything the Winnemucca to the Sea Highway could have been pursued as an extension of US 199 eastward to Nevada.
It was mid-1950s, so the main route was US 40 over Donner Pass to Sacramento and San Francisco, and US 140 was chosen as a branch of it. But, yes, California wasn't interested in the Winnemucca boosters' opinion.
Any idea what exact year the Winnemucca concept started to pop up? Did they ever try to get approval from the AASHTO or said screw it because California wasn't on board?
No exact year, just mid 1950s when the association was formed and a dedication in 1962 when the last dirt portion was paved.
Quote from: xonhulu on April 28, 2020, 04:12:16 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 28, 2020, 02:06:42 PM
It was mid-1950s, so the main route was US 40 over Donner Pass to Sacramento and San Francisco, and US 140 was chosen as a branch of it. But, yes, California wasn't interested in the Winnemucca boosters' opinion.
Do you have a source that specifically says the Winnemucca boosters wanted the WTTS to be a US Highway? I just looked over several articles on the highway's history online, and they all just said the boosters wanted the consistent number 140 for the highway, but didn't specifically say it had to be US 140.
And basically, Oregon and Nevada did just that to create MSR 140. Oregon even renumbered an existing highway (OR 66 between K Falls and Lakeview). And Nevada kept the 140 number even through the Great Renumbering. So the boosters almost got their wish with a multi-state route, albeit one that didn't include the Redwood Highway.
But that suggests another reason US 199 wasn't included. If there was never any intention to give the WTTS a US Route designation, then changing US 199 to MSR 140 would've been a demotion in status. Add that to an awkward concurrency with US 99/I-5 and the conflict with the existing CA 140, and it was probably just too bothersome to pursue.
You may be right, joint state routes 140 might have been all they were hoping for. But they did follow the numbering scheme for a branch of a US highway.
Oregon never co-signed route 140 on I-5 or US 99 to meet US 199 either. So it's really the Winnemucca to the Rogue highway, at least it was until Nevada removed the duplex with US 95.
Quote from: kkt on April 28, 2020, 11:40:05 PM
Oregon never co-signed route 140 on I-5 or US 99 to meet US 199 either. So it's really the Winnemucca to the Rogue highway, at least it was until Nevada removed the duplex with US 95.
Until a couple years ago, OR 140 didn't even make it US 99 or I-5. The Sea-seeking Winnemuccan was on their own to find their way from 140's old terminus in White City to Grants Pass and US 199.
Not much better now, either. Last time I was in the Medford-area, October 2019, ODOT still hadn't updated the signage at I-5's Exit 35 to reflect that OR 140 now starts there.
What a gold mine of information! I talked to a guy at ODOT and he said the Grants Pass to Riverbanks Rd Expressway was completed in 1977, but it seems the 1960s seems more like it....
Quote from: RoadFan99 on May 01, 2020, 01:54:57 AM
What a gold mine of information! I talked to a guy at ODOT and he said the Grants Pass to Riverbanks Rd Expressway was completed in 1977, but it seems the 1960s seems more like it....
I was able to find a 1963 map of Oregon that shows the 4 lane segment of US 199 west of Grants Pass as already completed. Here is a link: https://oregondigital.org/sets/ormaps/oregondigital:df674z27s
PS. The US 199 parkway south of downtown over to I-5 at exit 55 was constructed sometime in the late 1980's. Before that US 199 was routed through down town to I-5 at exit 58.
Quote from: Thunderbyrd316 on May 22, 2020, 01:22:38 PM
PS. The US 199 parkway south of downtown over to I-5 at exit 55 was constructed sometime in the late 1980's. Before that US 199 was routed through down town to I-5 at exit 58.
That sounds about right. I started working in the area in the fall of 1990, and I think the parkway had either just opened before that or opened shortly after. Too long ago to remember clearly.
All the HSHO had to say was this:
March 15, 1988 Redwood Highway
Foothill Boulevard — Rogue River/Redwood Highway Junction Section
Josephine County
A Highway Corridor and Design Resolution was adopted and approved by the Commission.
See Highway Corridor and Design Resolution File No. 474.See also RW Drawings 1R-3-1557, 9B-29-11 & 12.