So I was Wondering, Why does I-75 Cross the Miami River in Dayton 5 time when either it could stay in downtown side, or the Western Side of The Miami River, Could anyone Help me out with this?
Also Is US 35 in Dayton up to Interstate Highway Standards?
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on July 15, 2020, 09:37:33 AM
So I was Wondering, Why does I-75 Cross the Miami River in Dayton 5 time when either it could stay in downtown side, or the Western Side of The Miami River, Could anyone Help me out with this?
So it can access both sides of the river easily?
I believe it is like that so that I-75 can serve the downtown exits. It's just the most direct route through there with the way the river flows. It crosses the Miami River two more times about 20-30 miles north of Dayton.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 15, 2020, 10:22:17 AM
I believe it is like that so that I-75 can serve the downtown exits. It's just the most direct route through there with the way the river flows. It crosses the Miami River two more times about 20-30 miles north of Dayton.
yea but its kinda weird that OHDOT spent that much money on like bridges when it possibly could've went to I-73/I-74 extension, or maybe repairing other bridges, or something else
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on July 15, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 15, 2020, 10:22:17 AM
I believe it is like that so that I-75 can serve the downtown exits. It's just the most direct route through there with the way the river flows. It crosses the Miami River two more times about 20-30 miles north of Dayton.
yea but its kinda weird that OHDOT spent that much money on like bridges when it possibly could've went to I-73/I-74 extension, or maybe repairing other bridges, or something else
It was built 60 years ago. So what does I-73 have to do with it?!
BTW, US 35 is not interstate compatible because it has multiple left hand exits within a mile, with no interior shoulders.
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on July 15, 2020, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on July 15, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 15, 2020, 10:22:17 AM
I believe it is like that so that I-75 can serve the downtown exits. It's just the most direct route through there with the way the river flows. It crosses the Miami River two more times about 20-30 miles north of Dayton.
yea but its kinda weird that OHDOT spent that much money on like bridges when it possibly could've went to I-73/I-74 extension, or maybe repairing other bridges, or something else
It was built 60 years ago. So what does I-73 have to do with it?!
BTW, US 35 is not interstate compatible because it has multiple left hand exits within a mile, with no interior shoulders.
i'm basically saying the money for all those bridges could've went to something else, the i-73/i-74 was just an example
I-73/74 wasn't even remotely on the radar 60+ years ago, so it's not a comparison that can be made.
But the routing was the direct consequence of not wanting to further destroy Old Dayton, Five Points, Five Oaks, etc., all thriving neighborhoods in the late 1950s.
I-73 might not ever happen in Ohio and I-74 is only in the state for about 20 miles.
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on July 15, 2020, 09:37:33 AM
Also Is US 35 in Dayton up to Interstate Highway Standards?
Someone else mentioned the left exits. But the newer section of US-35 going west has at least 3 at-grade intersections. Going east, there are still 4 at-grades between Beavercreek and Xenia, plus a RIRO. A project to convert two of the latter to a "superstreet" is currently underway.
https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/odot/projects/projects/102421 (https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/odot/projects/projects/102421)
Left exits are substandard and not preferred, but despite hearing the argument a lot, there's no where that says left exits are against interstate standards.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 16, 2020, 07:32:48 PM
Left exits are substandard and not preferred, but despite hearing the argument a lot, there's no where that says left exits are against interstate standards.
yea i was kinda confused on whoever said left exits aren't allowed because at the I-84/I-91/US 6/US 44 interchange in Downtown Hartford, I-91 Southbound to get to I-84/US 6/US 44 Eastbound is a Left Exit
Quote from: lepidopteran on July 16, 2020, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on July 15, 2020, 09:37:33 AM
Also Is US 35 in Dayton up to Interstate Highway Standards?
Someone else mentioned the left exits. But the newer section of US-35 going west has at least 3 at-grade intersections. Going east, there are still 4 at-grades between Beavercreek and Xenia, plus a RIRO. A project to convert two of the latter to a "superstreet" is currently underway.
https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/odot/projects/projects/102421 (https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/odot/projects/projects/102421)
I'm guessing that AceWolf was wanting the section of US 35 between I-75 & I-675 as an 3di.
Mind you, we have plenty of roads in Ohio that other states would slap an interstate shield on, but ODOT does not.
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on July 16, 2020, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 16, 2020, 07:32:48 PM
Left exits are substandard and not preferred, but despite hearing the argument a lot, there's no where that says left exits are against interstate standards.
yea i was kinda confused on whoever said left exits aren't allowed because at the I-84/I-91/US 6/US 44 interchange in Downtown Hartford, I-91 Southbound to get to I-84/US 6/US 44 Eastbound is a Left Exit
Grandfather? Is that you?
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on July 16, 2020, 10:21:09 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on July 16, 2020, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on July 15, 2020, 09:37:33 AM
Also Is US 35 in Dayton up to Interstate Highway Standards?
Someone else mentioned the left exits. But the newer section of US-35 going west has at least 3 at-grade intersections. Going east, there are still 4 at-grades between Beavercreek and Xenia, plus a RIRO. A project to convert two of the latter to a "superstreet" is currently underway.
https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/odot/projects/projects/102421 (https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/odot/projects/projects/102421)
I'm guessing that AceWolf was wanting the section of US 35 between I-75 & I-675 as an 3di.
Mind you, we have plenty of roads in Ohio that other states would slap an interstate shield on, but ODOT does not.
Such as the East-West section of 104.
I remember when my old roommate was working on the mid-late 2000s redesign of 35 in Dayton the goal was never to make it interstate grade; it was to cut down on crashes since there were a lot of bad ones previously. I wasn't very familiar with Dayton at the time so I didn't have as much context when he showed me what they were doing with the maps he brought home from work as I do now having owned a business in Dayton.
They are currently doing Ramp bridges from US
35 to Southbound I-75 and should be completed by 8/31/2021
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on July 15, 2020, 09:37:33 AM
So I was Wondering, Why does I-75 Cross the Miami River in Dayton 5 time when either it could stay in downtown side, or the Western Side of The Miami River, Could anyone Help me out with this?
Also Is US 35 in Dayton up to Interstate Highway Standards?
Ummm... "Geography". https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7618725,-84.2172097,13z
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Probably better to consider I-75 keeps a reasonably straight course, and the Great Miami snakes back and forth a few times. If I-75 had been constructed to follow the river, there would be a lot more curves than those at the SR 4 interchange (wishing there were English words to translate the German freeway interchange terms "Dreieck" and "Kreuz"!!) By the route chosen by ODOH in the 1950's the city of Dayton wasn't bi-sected by a freeway like some cities. Most of the areas by the Great Miami were older manufacturing/industrial operations. If you investigate using Google Maps' Satellite view, and look around the Stanley Avenue interchange, you'll see the ghost of former ramps inside of which is a manufacturing building... my dad worked there from 1959-1973, and the fun thing about visiting him at the plant was it was in the middle of the former SB 75 exit to Stanley Ave Eastbound... always fun.
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As for your US 35 question... basically as answered, between I-75 and I-675 it would meet standards... As you head east to Xenia, there are a grade level intersections which could be upgraded to create freeway grade all the way to Chillicothe and US 23. One crazy idea if I-73 ever gets done in Virginia, etc. would be for Ohio instead of running it through Columbus, run it up US 23 from I-64 (with it going 64 to 77 south of there) and then over on US 35 to Dayton and ending. Dayton to Myrtle Beach sounds like a plan.
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(Goes without saying the US 35 west of I-75 is not freeway for long... plenty of at-grades -- it's a boulevard to its end at Salem Avenue.)
Is there any chance US 35 could be upgraded to full freeway standards, at least the segment from Interstate 75 to the West Third Street/OH 49 intersection?
I-94 in Detroit has several left exits one notable one is at the Lodge-Ford interchange. Other Interstates do as well, I-75 at Square Lake Road use to have a left exit for NB traffic.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 18, 2020, 01:48:24 PM
Is there any chance US 35 could be upgraded to full freeway standards, at least the segment from Interstate 75 to the West Third Street/OH 49 intersection?
You could extend the limited access through at least Gettysburg Av by closing off Abbey Avenue (the first at-grade)... but why bother? The VPD doesn't justify it. It's fine as a four lane boulevard. West past the Gettysburg Av, you can't just close off the Liscum and Infirmary at-grade intersections without causing traffic circulation issues... US 35 hardly merits being a US route east of that SR 49 intersection. If anything, US 35 should have been rerouted northward along the route of SR 49 to Salem Avenue, and then to I-70, cosigned on I-70 to Indiana...
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The only "reasonable" addition to US 35 as freeway... would be east of Dayton between Beavercreek and Xenia. To have no at-grades or signals from I-75 east to the "Breezewoody" at I-71 would be a solid I-575 candidate. It could even run as far east as anyone wanted on existing freeway US 35.
ODOT is going to replace an intersection along US 35 with an interchange....between I-675 & Xenia.
https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2021/09/24/u-s-35-interchange.html
(still no desire by ODOT to slap any interstate shields on US 35)
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 28, 2021, 01:15:02 AM
ODOT is going to replace an intersection along US 35 with an interchange....between I-675 & Xenia.
https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2021/09/24/u-s-35-interchange.html
(still no desire by ODOT to slap any interstate shields on US 35)
So that's one of the three signalized intersections gone. Will the US 35 and Factory Rd and Orchard Ln intersections stay, or will they be replaced by interchanges too, or completely grade separated with no access?
(Also for an interstate number, the closest numbers available for its grid position, and doesn't conflict with US routes, are I-56 and I-58.)
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 28, 2021, 01:51:43 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 28, 2021, 01:15:02 AM
ODOT is going to replace an intersection along US 35 with an interchange....between I-675 & Xenia.
https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2021/09/24/u-s-35-interchange.html
(still no desire by ODOT to slap any interstate shields on US 35)
So that's one of the three signalized intersections gone. Will the US 35 and Factory Rd and Orchard Ln intersections stay, or will they be replaced by interchanges too, or completely grade separated with no access?
(Also for an interstate number, the closest numbers available for its grid position, and doesn't conflict with US routes, are I-56 and I-58.)
They will be replaced with interchanges eventually, but they just built J-Turns as their "interim" phase.
The problem is that all of the auto dealers on that section of US 35 are fairly close to the road.
My preferred solution would be frontage roads for that section, but it would be a very tight squeeze.
For frontage roads, maybe something like this could work:
(https://i.imgur.com/nyKhULC.png)
Blue - Ramps
Green - One-way frontage roads
Pink - Extension of Alpha Road to connect with Roberts Rd
Yellow - Space for the Chevrolet and Cadillac dealers to expand into
Given the layout of Dayton in the downtown area, all the bridge crossings simply work. There's an exit that accesses all the various neighborhoods around downtown.
Question for y'all: I just drove the Dayton International Airport Access Road and apparently it's not a state highway. So who maintains it? When was the freeway portion built through US 40 to I-70? Historicaerials suggests that first the new terminal was built (1961), then the new access road was constructed to US 40 (1968 shows it being improved near the terminal), but there's a gap to the "1984" aerial where the whole access to I-70 is shown. Meanwhile, the airport's own website suggests the access to I-70 came somewhat later than 1984, hence my quotation marks.
First ODOT map showing a connection between I-70 & Dayton Airport is 1983.
As to who maintains it? Either Montgomery Co or Vandalia (I don't believe the airport road is under the jurisdiction of Dayton).
https://dayton247now.com/news/local/vandalia-raising-speed-limit-on-airport-access-road
It appears it's the city of Vandalia.
Quote from: Alps on January 30, 2022, 01:06:06 AM
Question for y'all: I just drove the Dayton International Airport Access Road and apparently it's not a state highway. So who maintains it? When was the freeway portion built through US 40 to I-70? Historicaerials suggests that first the new terminal was built (1961), then the new access road was constructed to US 40 (1968 shows it being improved near the terminal), but there's a gap to the "1984" aerial where the whole access to I-70 is shown. Meanwhile, the airport's own website suggests the access to I-70 came somewhat later than 1984, hence my quotation marks.
The City of Dayton definitely is responsible for the Terminal Drive portion north of US 40. They were the local sponsor for a project to rehab that part of the roadway.
The section between US 40 and the vicinity of the I-70 interchange appears to be the City of Vandalia. They were the local sponsor for a resurfacing project according to the MPO.
It's not clear who handles the part right by the I-70 interchange. Maybe ODOT?