Alaskan Way Viaduct Replacement Tunnel

[jakeroot]

If the tunnel is completed, it should function like HOT Lanes. Otherwise, it will either be jammed or underutilized.

If modern-day traffic levels are anything to go by, there shouldn't be any issues with traffic levels. Remember, there's no exit for downtown from inside the tunnel. All downtown traffic destined for the city center must exit the tunnel beforehand.

Tolling the tunnel after having made the citizens pay for cost over-runs will get city officials run out of town.

[kkt]

If the tunnel is completed, it should function like HOT Lanes. Otherwise, it will either be jammed or underutilized.

If modern-day traffic levels are anything to go by, there shouldn't be any issues with traffic levels. Remember, there's no exit for downtown from inside the tunnel. All downtown traffic destined for the city center must exit the tunnel beforehand.

Tolling the tunnel after having made the citizens pay for cost over-runs will get city officials run out of town.

They could call it McGinn's Revenge.

[jakeroot]

If the tunnel is completed, it should function like HOT Lanes. Otherwise, it will either be jammed or underutilized.

If modern-day traffic levels are anything to go by, there shouldn't be any issues with traffic levels. Remember, there's no exit for downtown from inside the tunnel. All downtown traffic destined for the city center must exit the tunnel beforehand.

Tolling the tunnel after having made the citizens pay for cost over-runs will get city officials run out of town.

They could call it McGinn's Revenge.

[KEK Inc.]

If the tunnel is completed, it should function like HOT Lanes. Otherwise, it will either be jammed or underutilized.

If modern-day traffic levels are anything to go by, there shouldn't be any issues with traffic levels. Remember, there's no exit for downtown from inside the tunnel. All downtown traffic destined for the city center must exit the tunnel beforehand.

Tolling the tunnel after having made the citizens pay for cost over-runs will get city officials run out of town.

It's a state highway, and it's already going to be tolled. 

[jakeroot]

If the tunnel is completed, it should function like HOT Lanes. Otherwise, it will either be jammed or underutilized.

If modern-day traffic levels are anything to go by, there shouldn't be any issues with traffic levels. Remember, there's no exit for downtown from inside the tunnel. All downtown traffic destined for the city center must exit the tunnel beforehand.

Tolling the tunnel after having made the citizens pay for cost over-runs will get city officials run out of town.

It's a state highway, and it's already going to be tolled.

I didn't know that. I hope Seattleites do.

[Kacie Jane]

Sorry that you were out of the loop, but tolling was always a pretty well publicized part of the plan from the earliest stages.

[jakeroot]

Sorry that you were out of the loop, but tolling was always a pretty well publicized part of the plan from the earliest stages.

I'm not sure how I missed it. I feel like a bit of a knob.

[Kacie Jane]

Awww, poor knob. Apologies for any dickishness here or on certain other threads last night.

[Bruce]

I visited Bertha as her cutterhead was being lifted a few weeks ago. Got as close as I could to the construction site.


Bertha from Alaskan & Jackson by SounderBruce, on Flickr

[707]

Okay, I gotta say it. This tunnel was a stupid idea to begin with and has caused nothing but trouble since it was first started. It would have made more sense to renovate and make the Viaduct able to survive an earthquake then to waste millions of dollars on a drill that constantly breaks down, people that do nothing but sit there and point fingers at each other every time a problem occurs, have to remove the cutterhead mid project costing even more money, cause downtown to start sagging into the ground creating even more costs to repair Pioneer Square and going over budget and schedule adding up to a huge debt that will take the city years to pay back. At this point, I'd be surprised if the tunnel ever opens, let alone gets finished.

[jakeroot]

Okay, I gotta say it. This tunnel was a stupid idea to begin with and has caused nothing but trouble since it was first started. It would have made more sense to renovate and make the Viaduct able to survive an earthquake then to waste millions of dollars on a drill that constantly breaks down, people that do nothing but sit there and point fingers at each other every time a problem occurs, have to remove the cutterhead mid project costing even more money, cause downtown to start sagging into the ground creating even more costs to repair Pioneer Square and going over budget and schedule adding up to a huge debt that will take the city years to pay back. At this point, I'd be surprised if the tunnel ever opens, let alone gets finished.

Most megaprojects suffer from cost-overruns and delays. The replacement tunnel is no different. Of course, looking back there might have been better options, but that's kind of the funny thing about humans. We make mistakes, and look back with disdain. BUT, we move forward and make the best of what we have.

Renovating the viaduct would, IMO, be the worst of the options. It would probably be the cheapest, but this project was about more than just the freeway. It's about the waterfront, which right now is hopelessly disconnected from downtown (and is suffering as a result). In the end, the options were basically tunnel or surface street. The state wanted to maintain 99 as a freeway, so the tunnel won.

[Bruce]

It would have made more sense to renovate and make the Viaduct able to survive an earthquake.

That wouldn't have worked, either. It would have made much more sense to demolish the viaduct, deal with a few years of bad traffic, then open a surface boulevard/plaza like the Embarcadero on the waterfront. We might have saved enough money to actually fund our light rail system...or to rebuild I-5 with park lids and better lane configurations.

[kkt]

That wouldn't have worked, either. It would have made much more sense to demolish the viaduct, deal with a few years of bad traffic, then open a surface boulevard/plaza like the Embarcadero on the waterfront. We might have saved enough money to actually fund our light rail system...or to rebuild I-5 with park lids and better lane configurations.

A surface boulevard would be less of a visual barrier, but a lot more of a physical barrier to pedestrians and bicyclists between 1st Ave. and Alaskan Way.

[Bruce]

That wouldn't have worked, either. It would have made much more sense to demolish the viaduct, deal with a few years of bad traffic, then open a surface boulevard/plaza like the Embarcadero on the waterfront. We might have saved enough money to actually fund our light rail system...or to rebuild I-5 with park lids and better lane configurations.

A surface boulevard would be less of a visual barrier, but a lot more of a physical barrier to pedestrians and bicyclists between 1st Ave. and Alaskan Way.

At least it's easier to fix than another elevated freeway. You could always quietly give the boulevard a road diet after a few years to avoid public outrage.

[iBallasticwolf2]

That wouldn't have worked, either. It would have made much more sense to demolish the viaduct, deal with a few years of bad traffic, then open a surface boulevard/plaza like the Embarcadero on the waterfront. We might have saved enough money to actually fund our light rail system...or to rebuild I-5 with park lids and better lane configurations.

A surface boulevard would be less of a visual barrier, but a lot more of a physical barrier to pedestrians and bicyclists between 1st Ave. and Alaskan Way.

He's right you know

At least it's easier to fix than another elevated freeway. You could always quietly give the boulevard a road diet after a few years to avoid public outrage.

[mcarling]

I expect that, when the tunnel finally opens, most of us will look back and think that all the alternatives would have been worse than the tunnel.

[Bruce]

I expect that, when the tunnel finally opens, most of us will look back and think that all the alternatives would have been worse than the tunnel.

And then we'll look at the final bill and think that we really shouldn't have built the tunnel.

And if an earthquake brings down the viaduct before it's closed and kills people (our other bridge disasters haven't taken a life for a century), we'll get angry at the government for not closing it sooner.

And then we'll still be stuck in traffic and ruing that we didn't build out light rail sooner. At least the view from the freeway is pretty good most of the time; I especially enjoy the view of Seattle from the Ship Canal Bridge during reverse-peak, when the southbound lanes are jammed and the northbound lanes (+ express lanes) are flowing).

[cpzilliacus]

komonews.com: DOT: Damage to crippled Bertha tunneler worse than first thought

SEATTLE - Damage to the crippled Bertha tunneling machine is more extensive than originally thought, state Department of Transportation officials said Monday.

The additional damage was discovered after the massive drilling machine, which stalled underground in December 2013 while digging a replacement tunnel for the Alaska Way Viaduct, was raised back to the surface.

In a report to the Seattle City Council, DOT officials said the massive drilling machine's outer seals and the steel retainers that hold them in place are destroyed. There was also damage to the cutter drive motor pinions and the main bearing bull gear.

Seattle Tunnel Partners, which operates Bertha, is awaiting more replacement parts from the driller's manufacturer in Japan.

[Bickendan]

All because of a pipe they neglected to account for.

[jakeroot]

People, as expected, are up in arms and want the tunnel shut down. Then again, what's new? I say keep on digging. All things considered, the tunnel is still the best option. It's just getting harder to convince people of that. Oh well. I mean, very few huge highway projects have ever been well received. Just add this tunnel to the list of things people hated until they used it.

[mcarling]

Hopefully, opposition will wane when Bertha starts boring again.  This far along, anything other than continuing would be insane.

"If you're going through hell, keep going." -- Winston Churchill

[kkt]

All because of a pipe they neglected to account for.

It's far too early to conclude that.

[nexus73]

Building the Panama Canal wasn't easy either.  Keep on going until the next problem, then solve that problem and keep on going. 

Rick

[cpzilliacus]

Hopefully, opposition will wane when Bertha starts boring again.  This far along, anything other than continuing would be insane.

"If you're going through hell, keep going." -- Winston Churchill

Unfortunately, there is a loud and reasonably well-organized cadre of anti-auto/anti-highway activists and self-described transportation experts that are always ready to oppose any and all highway improvement projects - and if something goes wrong during construction (as it has with Bertha), to demand that the project be shut-down or at least delayed for "more study."

[Bruce]

Even if there's a few crazies in the anti-Bertha camp, it still is kind of a huge waste of a project. The tunnel will carry less traffic than the old viaduct because it doesn't have downtown exits, which were heavily used by commuters from West Seattle. There's better ways of spending the money that went into this project (reconfiguring I-5 and all of its left exits and the reversible express lanes, funding the last mile of the SR 520 project in Seattle, etc.) that would've benefitted Seattle and its commuters much more.

Also, it's kind of insane that we still have the viaduct open to traffic and carrying significant loads when there's the ever looming possibility of it collapsing in an earthquake and taking out the entire seawall (which is still in the process of being replaced) with it. I for one would not like to be stuck on the viaduct when it comes down.