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Author Topic: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project  (Read 15950 times)

mcarling

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I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« on: February 18, 2015, 01:56:51 PM »

Civic Stadium and Civic Auditorium ftw

http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/REGION1/pages/i5partnership/rosequarter.aspx
http://www.portlandoregon.gov/bps/article/415777

In late 2012, first the Portland City Council approved this plan unanimously and then the Oregon Transportation Commission approved the plan unanimously.  At the time, there was no funding available because the extremely expensive CRC hadn't yet been defeated.  With the CRC dead, there should be funding available.  Has there been any progress in moving the I-5 Rose Quarter project toward implementation?  Does anyone know the status?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 02:45:57 PM by Bickendan »
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myosh_tino

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 02:37:03 PM »

I see you found your way over here from Skyscraper City, welcome!

There are a number of users from the Pacific Northwest here so I hope you can get a suitable answer to your question.
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Bickendan

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 02:45:48 PM »

Welcome! I haven't heard anything about this recently, though I do remember seeing plans on how the reconfigured street (and streetcar) layouts would be. I'll dig through ODOT's pages to see if I can find it (and maybe an update on the project itself).
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Vincent

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 02:51:01 PM »

The short answer is: sorta.

Longer answer: ODOT is proposing to use federal funds for preliminary engineering in 2016 to "Develop a project for future construction funding," key number 19071. The proposed project was approved by the Oregon Transportation Commission in December 2014 but has not been approved by FHWA yet. I expect it will be. However, the $1.5M design budget won't get through final design and it certainly doesn't include construction.
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Bickendan

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 03:12:02 PM »

Design option pdf, looks like back from 2007: http://www.portlandoregon.gov/bps/article/327979
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nexus73

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 03:18:48 PM »

Here's your real roadblock and it's name is bureaucracy.

Several previous studies: the Greeley Ramp-North
Banfield Section Study (1987), the Blazer Arena
Study (1991) and the Freeway Loop Study (2005),
have addressed the operational issues of this
section. This current effort was a fresh look at
feasible solutions that could be implemented in the
relative short term.

Gotta keep those looks fresh...LOL!  Typical ODOT.  Study something to death and then do nothing.  Good work if you can get it!

Rick
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Bickendan

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 03:28:21 PM »

Ayup. We should do something 'bout that, Bert.
Your coffee getting cold like mine? Thinkin' about putting on a new pot.
Nice weather we're havin', innit? Ayup.
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OCGuy81

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 04:07:55 PM »

I'm really surprised the current configuration is the way it is.  Visiting friends in Washington and driving back through Portland (SB 5) I was confident we'd get through town pretty quickly at 2:15 on a weekday afternoon.

Alas, there was the narrowing to two lanes, right in the heart of town, where all the major freeways converge! Kudos, ODOT, you managed to get the take home version of the East LA Interchange. :-)
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Bickendan

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 04:18:52 PM »

Ha, it's not just I-5 -- I-405 as well goes down to 2 in each. And while 205's not a bad alternative, both the north and south ends are down to two in each.
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OCGuy81

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2015, 04:23:24 PM »

Ha, it's not just I-5 -- I-405 as well goes down to 2 in each. And while 205's not a bad alternative, both the north and south ends are down to two in each.

Might be getting off topic, but is there any freeway in Oregon > 3 lanes in each direction for more than about a mile? Seems like they don't get any bigger than 3.
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Bickendan

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2015, 04:29:55 PM »

I-205 between Sunnybrook Blvd and Johnson Creek Blvd. It's the only one, though the ROW would support eight laning 205 between Foster and I-84, possibly between JCB and Foster as well.
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Vincent

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2015, 05:01:45 PM »

Gotta keep those looks fresh...LOL!  Typical ODOT.  Study something to death and then do nothing.  Good work if you can get it!

These aren't just planning studies for fun. Transportation funding is a competitive process. Quite often planned projects are never constructed.

At first planners look at the problems and what it takes to fix: usually a hell of a lot of money. When ODOT goes looking for money nobody wants to fund it because there are other projects that have a better ROI. A decade later the problem still exists so the planners take another look at improvements that will have the best ROI. In this case, it was enough to get a preliminary design. With some design work done they'll have a better understanding of construction costs and will be in a better position to secure fast-paced funds like ARRA.

Or if you can find $250M I am confident ODOT will be happy to start work today  :)
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nexus73

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2015, 08:45:58 PM »

Gotta keep those looks fresh...LOL!  Typical ODOT.  Study something to death and then do nothing.  Good work if you can get it!

These aren't just planning studies for fun. Transportation funding is a competitive process. Quite often planned projects are never constructed.

At first planners look at the problems and what it takes to fix: usually a hell of a lot of money. When ODOT goes looking for money nobody wants to fund it because there are other projects that have a better ROI. A decade later the problem still exists so the planners take another look at improvements that will have the best ROI. In this case, it was enough to get a preliminary design. With some design work done they'll have a better understanding of construction costs and will be in a better position to secure fast-paced funds like ARRA.

Or if you can find $250M I am confident ODOT will be happy to start work today  :)

Procedural BS galore.  Wait until there is something that needs doing, money is in hand (only needs to be close, shit happens in any case, see the gov't track record on projects of all types), draw up the plan and BUILD THE PROJECT.  That's how you save money from being wasted on studies.  Since you show an Oregon-like location I'll assume you know about the waste of money called CRC planning.  You might like seeing your tax $$$ going down non-productive paths but I and the vast majority of Oregonians don't.

Rick
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Vincent

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2015, 11:42:35 AM »

Wait until there is something that needs doing, money is in hand (only needs to be close, shit happens in any case, see the gov't track record on projects of all types), draw up the plan and BUILD THE PROJECT.

I will defer to your experience with transportation funding mechanisms. We don't need to think ahead about what we should build.
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nexus73

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2015, 12:24:08 PM »

Wait until there is something that needs doing, money is in hand (only needs to be close, shit happens in any case, see the gov't track record on projects of all types), draw up the plan and BUILD THE PROJECT.

I will defer to your experience with transportation funding mechanisms. We don't need to think ahead about what we should build.

Nice way to deflect there buddy.  Why do you have so much faith in government "efficiency"?

Rick
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TEG24601

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2015, 01:50:02 PM »

I wouldn't expect anything to happen on I-5 in Portland until there is a fundamental understanding of the locals that more freeway lanes, can help reduce surface street usage, and make bicyclists safer (in theory).  Most people I've talked to are happy with the bottle neck because they think it causes people to stop driving, when instead they use 99E to get around all of it.  Not to mention the major investment on those surface streets to bring the Portland Streetcar to them.


The will also need to be some major redesigning of the streets that travel over that section of I-5... I'd like to see them reconfigure Vancouver, Broadway, Wiedler, and Williams into a giant Roundabout.
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Bickendan

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2015, 02:44:37 PM »

Wait until there is something that needs doing, money is in hand (only needs to be close, shit happens in any case, see the gov't track record on projects of all types), draw up the plan and BUILD THE PROJECT.

I will defer to your experience with transportation funding mechanisms. We don't need to think ahead about what we should build.

Nice way to deflect there buddy.  Why do you have so much faith in government "efficiency"?

Rick

Ease up on the sniping here.
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mcarling

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2015, 06:34:37 PM »

I'd like to see them reconfigure Vancouver, Broadway, Wiedler, and Williams into a giant Roundabout.
I think a giant roundabout there would be a good idea from a policy perspective.  However, from a political perspective I think it's probably DoA because there is a specific plan which has already been approved unanimously by both the Portland City Council and the Oregon Transportation Commission.  So I think any question of an alternative implementation may be too late.
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mcarling

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US 97 should be 2x2 all the way from Yakima, WA to Klamath Falls, OR.

The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2016, 02:51:19 PM »

How much does anyone want to bet that none of the freeway improvements will be constructed.
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mcarling

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2016, 04:33:18 PM »

How much does anyone want to bet that none of the freeway improvements will be constructed.
You want to be that a specific plan which has already been approved unanimously by both the Portland City Council and the Oregon Transportation Commission will never be built?
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US 97 should be 2x2 all the way from Yakima, WA to Klamath Falls, OR.

The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2016, 03:40:39 PM »

From what I've heard, Portland is more interested in increasing density and building more light rail lines, and letting the roads fall into disrepair and be hopelessly gridlocked.
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mcarling

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2016, 03:25:46 AM »

From what I've heard, Portland is more interested in increasing density and building more light rail lines, and letting the roads fall into disrepair and be hopelessly gridlocked.
That's generally true, which is why it's exceptional that the Portland City Council unanimously approved this plan.  I would bet the legislature will fund this before the Portland City Council changes their minds.
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US 97 should be 2x2 all the way from Yakima, WA to Klamath Falls, OR.

The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2016, 02:56:58 PM »

I hope you're right, mcarling.
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jakeroot

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Re: I-5 Rose Quarter (Portland) Widening Project
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2016, 04:56:26 PM »

I don't think Portland, Multnomah County, nor ODOT, has any interest in letting roads fall into disrepair; just because they aren't building new roads and widening all over the place doesn't mean they have some sort of deep detestation for roads (the gas tax has to go to something, after all). Their goal is simply to maintain what they already have, and add to it only when absolutely necessary (for example, adding shoulders for safety, etc).
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