I-165 Kentucky (William H. Natcher Green River Parkway)

Started by Grzrd, February 24, 2015, 01:55:55 PM

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sparker

Quote from: sparker on March 08, 2019, 04:28:44 PM
Some speculation:  now that Natcher's I-165, Pennyrile's a combo of I-69 & I-169, and the west end of WKY is also I-69 -- how long will it be before KY boosters push an Interstate designation for at least the remainder of the WKY if not the whole ball of wax, including the (former) Bluegrass toward Lexington?  I can see some reticence regarding the Bluegrass, seeing as how no realistic plan for connecting its east end to either I-64 or I-75 has gotten terribly far -- but the WKY, being a direct feed into I-69 (and eventually a commercial-traffic Nashville "avoider"), seems like one of the closest things to a "slam-dunk" as far as speculative Interstate corridors are concerned.   

Well, that certainly didn't take long!  Looks like KY political critters are getting infected by Interstate fever!  (and check out the thread addressing such in this region).   I guess they're close enough to NC to catch the spores, viruses, or whatever.  It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out -- or how many limited-access parkways will be left standing on their own w/o I-status a few years down the line. 


MNHighwayMan

Quote from: sparker on April 08, 2019, 07:58:32 PM
I guess they're close enough to NC to catch the spores, viruses, or whatever.

Mind parasite.

sparker

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 08, 2019, 03:46:46 PM
Google Maps still shows the whole route as KY 9007. Interstate 169 isn't marked on the southern portion of the Pennyrile either.

Just ordered a 2020 Rand McNally atlas; should get here sometime after 4/15.  Then we'll see if the I-169 shield that was applied to the southern Pennyrile in the 2019 edition is still shown.  Not like McNally to jump the gun; that's basically S.O.P. for Google and other open-form mapping services. 

GreenLanternCorps

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 08, 2019, 03:46:46 PM
Google Maps still shows the whole route as KY 9007. Interstate 169 isn't marked on the southern portion of the Pennyrile either.

Google maps now has I-165 marked from Bowling Green to Owensboro.

The Ghostbuster


dvferyance

Quote from: hbelkins on March 14, 2019, 11:19:26 AM
Quote from: mvak36 on March 14, 2019, 12:22:26 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2019, 11:18:41 AM

I'm guessing that US 231 (Scottsville Road) IS on the NHS, but I don't know why the interstate designation doesn't extend to there.


The only other thing I can think of is that it had to start at I-65 since it's a spur off of it. But there are plenty of examples where that's not the case, like I-355 in Illinois.

Former I-181 is the one that comes to my mind.
I-516

Verlanka

Quote from: dvferyance on April 12, 2019, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 14, 2019, 11:19:26 AM
Quote from: mvak36 on March 14, 2019, 12:22:26 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2019, 11:18:41 AM

I'm guessing that US 231 (Scottsville Road) IS on the NHS, but I don't know why the interstate designation doesn't extend to there.


The only other thing I can think of is that it had to start at I-65 since it's a spur off of it. But there are plenty of examples where that's not the case, like I-355 in Illinois.

Former I-181 is the one that comes to my mind.
I-516

How about I-287?

sparker

Quote from: Verlanka on April 14, 2019, 09:09:54 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on April 12, 2019, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 14, 2019, 11:19:26 AM
Quote from: mvak36 on March 14, 2019, 12:22:26 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2019, 11:18:41 AM

I'm guessing that US 231 (Scottsville Road) IS on the NHS, but I don't know why the interstate designation doesn't extend to there.


The only other thing I can think of is that it had to start at I-65 since it's a spur off of it. But there are plenty of examples where that's not the case, like I-355 in Illinois.

Former I-181 is the one that comes to my mind.
I-516

How about I-287?

There are a few examples of even 3di's (non-full-beltway) that don't terminate at a parent.  In CA, there's I-605, TX has I-635, PA's I-476.  In NY, I-287 was originally supposed to end at I-87 when that route extended up the east side of the Hudson River to I-84; the portion across Westchester County was originally to be I-487.  But that was changed in the late '60's, with the I-487 designation replaced by an extension of I-287.  But then NYC metro is full of 3di's that don't meet their parent routes because of multiple route truncations over the years (I-495, all the x78's).

Life in Paradise

Even though I-165 is now listed for the Green River/Natcher Parkway between Bowling Green and Owensboro, I-165 is only actually signed just for the first few miles around Bowling Green.  I went through there yesterday, and there are quite a few signs that will need to go up.  They have also appeared to locate almost all of the orange and white barrels in Kentucky so that they could put them around all of the guardrails that they were replacing.  I have never, ever seen so many barrels in a 70 mile stretch.

jnewkirk77

Quote from: Life in Paradise on April 14, 2019, 07:59:09 PM
Even though I-165 is now listed for the Green River/Natcher Parkway between Bowling Green and Owensboro, I-165 is only actually signed just for the first few miles around Bowling Green.  I went through there yesterday, and there are quite a few signs that will need to go up.  They have also appeared to locate almost all of the orange and white barrels in Kentucky so that they could put them around all of the guardrails that they were replacing.  I have never, ever seen so many barrels in a 70 mile stretch.

The replacement process seems to have bogged down. It took them two weeks just to put all the greenouts up, and even then, they missed a couple at US 60. At the rate they're going, we might see the old tollbooth interchanges rebuilt first!  :crazy:

The Ghostbuster

Well, we can't expect new highway designations to be fully signposted overnight, can we?

jnewkirk77

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 17, 2019, 01:29:04 PM
Well, we can't expect new highway designations to be fully signposted overnight, can we?

No, but when they said they'd have at least the temporary signage done in 2 weeks, that should have been doable.

I saw my first I-165 reassurance sign earlier tonight, posted just north of the Hartford exit. It had to have been put up today, because it wasn't there last night.

hbelkins

I don't know which contractor is doing that job, but at least one signage contractor in Kentucky is also in the guardrail installation business. They may have had a contract that had a completion date upcoming that required the attention of their crews.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

jnewkirk77

Quote from: hbelkins on April 18, 2019, 02:12:38 PM
I don't know which contractor is doing that job, but at least one signage contractor in Kentucky is also in the guardrail installation business. They may have had a contract that had a completion date upcoming that required the attention of their crews.

Could well have been the guys doing the guardrail work that's being done as part of the modifications in Ohio and Daviess counties. I don't know for sure, because they're off the job before I drive through every night. It looks like they're replacing almost all the rails in both counties.

Avalanchez71

Quote from: sparker on March 22, 2019, 01:44:57 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 22, 2019, 12:06:32 AM
So this means that I-66 is dead in KY?  Being the part from I-65 to the WP (Western Kentucky Pky) was to be part of that proposal and now I-165 is applied (and approved by the feds) I guess it really is dead now.

Maybe.......maybe not.  It's interesting that the only legal definition for I-66's KY route specified that it would serve Russellville, Hopkinsville, and Benton -- three locations that would be bypassed by a Natcher/WKY routing.  It's more than likely that the parkway-based I-66 alternative was prompted by the I-69 precedent that placed that route on the parkways rather than on a more straightline alignment between Henderson and the Purchase Parkway.   At this time it doesn't seem as if any move is afoot to engage in any development along the US 68/KY 80 corridor except for the Somerset bypass and spot improvements to the Hal Rogers segment.  Besides the Natcher upgrade work, KY has the 6-laning of I-65 to complete before significant new projects can or should be considered.  I'd consider I-66 dormant rather than irreparably dead.   
North Carolina was successful in getting I-496 renumbered as I-87.  Then there was I-181 that is now I-26 in Tennessee.  I know there are other examples out there.

sparker

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 25, 2019, 01:14:02 AM
Quote from: sparker on March 22, 2019, 01:44:57 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 22, 2019, 12:06:32 AM
So this means that I-66 is dead in KY?  Being the part from I-65 to the WP (Western Kentucky Pky) was to be part of that proposal and now I-165 is applied (and approved by the feds) I guess it really is dead now.

Maybe.......maybe not.  It's interesting that the only legal definition for I-66's KY route specified that it would serve Russellville, Hopkinsville, and Benton -- three locations that would be bypassed by a Natcher/WKY routing.  It's more than likely that the parkway-based I-66 alternative was prompted by the I-69 precedent that placed that route on the parkways rather than on a more straightline alignment between Henderson and the Purchase Parkway.   At this time it doesn't seem as if any move is afoot to engage in any development along the US 68/KY 80 corridor except for the Somerset bypass and spot improvements to the Hal Rogers segment.  Besides the Natcher upgrade work, KY has the 6-laning of I-65 to complete before significant new projects can or should be considered.  I'd consider I-66 dormant rather than irreparably dead.   
North Carolina was successful in getting I-496 renumbered as I-87.  Then there was I-181 that is now I-26 in Tennessee.  I know there are other examples out there.

I'm just surprised that the mayor's office in Owensboro (which seems to attract publicity hounds!) didn't lobby their local congressfolks for a 2di/trunk number for the Natcher -- or even a combination including that parkway plus the Audubon and US 60 as a connector between the two -- something like I-61 or I-63.  Since they put a lot of effort into their abortive "I-67" proposal a few years back, something like that would have been right up their alley, so to speak! 

jnewkirk77

Quote from: sparker on May 26, 2019, 05:34:23 AM
I'm just surprised that the mayor's office in Owensboro (which seems to attract publicity hounds!) didn't lobby their local congressfolks for a 2di/trunk number for the Natcher -- or even a combination including that parkway plus the Audubon and US 60 as a connector between the two -- something like I-61 or I-63.  Since they put a lot of effort into their abortive "I-67" proposal a few years back, something like that would have been right up their alley, so to speak!

Shhhhh ... don't provoke them. I-165 is just fine with us.  :cool:


sparker

Quote from: jnewkirk77 on May 26, 2019, 07:53:39 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 26, 2019, 05:34:23 AM
I'm just surprised that the mayor's office in Owensboro (which seems to attract publicity hounds!) didn't lobby their local congressfolks for a 2di/trunk number for the Natcher -- or even a combination including that parkway plus the Audubon and US 60 as a connector between the two -- something like I-61 or I-63.  Since they put a lot of effort into their abortive "I-67" proposal a few years back, something like that would have been right up their alley, so to speak!

Shhhhh ... don't provoke them. I-165 is just fine with us.  :cool:



I wouldn't worry about that -- it's not like they read this forum (or else they probably would have gotten the idea prior to designating I-165!).   Unless the idea would have been dangled right in front of their faces, they probably wouldn't have come up with such on their own -- some politicos become blinded by grandiose plans (like an I-67 up to Bloomington) that in reality have zero chances of implementation, simply because plans such as that that require multi-jurisdictional cooperation rarely can get their "ducks in a row".  So they tend to ignore or fail to recognize something that might be doable (like an all-KY 2di route) -- an example of not considering the practical in favor of the extravagant.  Their loss -- they'll just have to live with what was decided in their absence!

hbelkins

Quote from: sparker on May 27, 2019, 12:08:32 AM
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on May 26, 2019, 07:53:39 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 26, 2019, 05:34:23 AM
I'm just surprised that the mayor's office in Owensboro (which seems to attract publicity hounds!) didn't lobby their local congressfolks for a 2di/trunk number for the Natcher -- or even a combination including that parkway plus the Audubon and US 60 as a connector between the two -- something like I-61 or I-63.  Since they put a lot of effort into their abortive "I-67" proposal a few years back, something like that would have been right up their alley, so to speak!

Shhhhh ... don't provoke them. I-165 is just fine with us.  :cool:



I wouldn't worry about that -- it's not like they read this forum (or else they probably would have gotten the idea prior to designating I-165!).   Unless the idea would have been dangled right in front of their faces, they probably wouldn't have come up with such on their own -- some politicos become blinded by grandiose plans (like an I-67 up to Bloomington) that in reality have zero chances of implementation, simply because plans such as that that require multi-jurisdictional cooperation rarely can get their "ducks in a row".  So they tend to ignore or fail to recognize something that might be doable (like an all-KY 2di route) -- an example of not considering the practical in favor of the extravagant.  Their loss -- they'll just have to live with what was decided in their absence!

I-165 was basically the idea of Sen. Rand Paul, who's from Bowling Green. If the city fathers in Owensboro are like their fellow local officials all across Kentucky, they are in frequent contact with the federal delegation. And the current state administration in Frankfort is doing more outreach to local governments than has been done in several years. The Owensboro leaders probably knew about I-165 long before the rest of the public did.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

sparker

Quote from: hbelkins on May 27, 2019, 02:43:36 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 27, 2019, 12:08:32 AM
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on May 26, 2019, 07:53:39 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 26, 2019, 05:34:23 AM
I'm just surprised that the mayor's office in Owensboro (which seems to attract publicity hounds!) didn't lobby their local congressfolks for a 2di/trunk number for the Natcher -- or even a combination including that parkway plus the Audubon and US 60 as a connector between the two -- something like I-61 or I-63.  Since they put a lot of effort into their abortive "I-67" proposal a few years back, something like that would have been right up their alley, so to speak!

Shhhhh ... don't provoke them. I-165 is just fine with us.  :cool:



I wouldn't worry about that -- it's not like they read this forum (or else they probably would have gotten the idea prior to designating I-165!).   Unless the idea would have been dangled right in front of their faces, they probably wouldn't have come up with such on their own -- some politicos become blinded by grandiose plans (like an I-67 up to Bloomington) that in reality have zero chances of implementation, simply because plans such as that that require multi-jurisdictional cooperation rarely can get their "ducks in a row".  So they tend to ignore or fail to recognize something that might be doable (like an all-KY 2di route) -- an example of not considering the practical in favor of the extravagant.  Their loss -- they'll just have to live with what was decided in their absence!

I-165 was basically the idea of Sen. Rand Paul, who's from Bowling Green. If the city fathers in Owensboro are like their fellow local officials all across Kentucky, they are in frequent contact with the federal delegation. And the current state administration in Frankfort is doing more outreach to local governments than has been done in several years. The Owensboro leaders probably knew about I-165 long before the rest of the public did.

Well now -- maybe the Owensboro mayor's office has finally kicked their "jonesing" for a 2di for their city, and are accepting the current designation selection.  But I wonder if the idea of similarly designating the Audubon and connectors -- an idea that seems to have been back-burnered or even discarded this decade -- will ever be revived?  -- it seems to be an obvious extension of I-165 or even a x69 (apparently it was suggested as I-369 in the '00's) -- with the requisite modifications, of course. 

hbelkins

Quote from: sparker on May 28, 2019, 02:01:19 AM
Well now -- maybe the Owensboro mayor's office has finally kicked their "jonesing" for a 2di for their city, and are accepting the current designation selection.  But I wonder if the idea of similarly designating the Audubon and connectors -- an idea that seems to have been back-burnered or even discarded this decade -- will ever be revived?  -- it seems to be an obvious extension of I-165 or even a x69 (apparently it was suggested as I-369 in the '00's) -- with the requisite modifications, of course.

The "Future I-69 Spur" signs have been long-gone from the Audubon for some time now, and I never was able to find out why they were removed.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

LM117

Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2019, 02:40:26 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 28, 2019, 02:01:19 AM
Well now -- maybe the Owensboro mayor's office has finally kicked their "jonesing" for a 2di for their city, and are accepting the current designation selection.  But I wonder if the idea of similarly designating the Audubon and connectors -- an idea that seems to have been back-burnered or even discarded this decade -- will ever be revived?  -- it seems to be an obvious extension of I-165 or even a x69 (apparently it was suggested as I-369 in the '00's) -- with the requisite modifications, of course.

The "Future I-69 Spur" signs have been long-gone from the Audubon for some time now, and I never was able to find out why they were removed.

Could be an oversight. The Future I-785 signs here in Danville on US-29 were taken down a few years ago, but VDOT put them back up fairly recently after the city council pestered them about it. Funny thing is that the city had no clue the signs were taken down until a resident pointed it out to them.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

WKDAVE

Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2019, 02:40:26 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 28, 2019, 02:01:19 AM
Well now -- maybe the Owensboro mayor's office has finally kicked their "jonesing" for a 2di for their city, and are accepting the current designation selection.  But I wonder if the idea of similarly designating the Audubon and connectors -- an idea that seems to have been back-burnered or even discarded this decade -- will ever be revived?  -- it seems to be an obvious extension of I-165 or even a x69 (apparently it was suggested as I-369 in the '00's) -- with the requisite modifications, of course.

The "Future I-69 Spur" signs have been long-gone from the Audubon for some time now, and I never was able to find out why they were removed.


Regarding couple of issues...
Audubon I-69 Spur....problem is that a spur must connect to existing Interstate. Even though it is less than 1 mile from I-69 it can't become spur until it touches it. Request was made to extend I-69 up to end of old Pennyrile/Zion Road exit but that has been initially denied as it is "part" of bridge crossing plan. If that ever changes then Audubon spur will be front burner again.

2 Digit I using Audubon/US 60/Natcher....idea was looked at as part of I-65/I-69 Spurs study by state (Palmer Study 2014). To upgrade the 7 miles of US 60 to Interstate standards, including "continuity," was estimated to cost between $50-$70 million.

sparker

Quote from: WKDAVE on May 29, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2019, 02:40:26 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 28, 2019, 02:01:19 AM
Well now -- maybe the Owensboro mayor's office has finally kicked their "jonesing" for a 2di for their city, and are accepting the current designation selection.  But I wonder if the idea of similarly designating the Audubon and connectors -- an idea that seems to have been back-burnered or even discarded this decade -- will ever be revived?  -- it seems to be an obvious extension of I-165 or even a x69 (apparently it was suggested as I-369 in the '00's) -- with the requisite modifications, of course.

The "Future I-69 Spur" signs have been long-gone from the Audubon for some time now, and I never was able to find out why they were removed.


Regarding couple of issues...
Audubon I-69 Spur....problem is that a spur must connect to existing Interstate. Even though it is less than 1 mile from I-69 it can't become spur until it touches it. Request was made to extend I-69 up to end of old Pennyrile/Zion Road exit but that has been initially denied as it is "part" of bridge crossing plan. If that ever changes then Audubon spur will be front burner again.

2 Digit I using Audubon/US 60/Natcher....idea was looked at as part of I-65/I-69 Spurs study by state (Palmer Study 2014). To upgrade the 7 miles of US 60 to Interstate standards, including "continuity," was estimated to cost between $50-$70 million.

The fact that "continuity" is an issue isn't surprising, seeing that both Natcher and Audubon trumpet interchanges with US 60 are oriented in the wrong direction; a NB/WB continuous route would have to take both loops.  That upgrade in itself would probably account for much of the expenditures if the through-route concept were to become reality. 

Captain Jack

Northbound I-165 (Natcher) to westbound US 60 needs to be rebuilt regardless. That bank is NASCAR level, without the high speed, low gravity cars.

I too am surprised the Owensboro mayor didn't push the 2-di Natcher-Audubon plan. Not only did the heavily push the ridiculous I-67 idea, they went as far as pimping a re-route of an already under construction I-69 over the 231 bridge. Not to mention the genius actually went to the Evansville mayor's office to get his support of this re-routing away from Evansville.

While both of these were complete lunacy, the 2-di Natcher-Audubon idea actually seems pretty logical.



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