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Washington

Started by jakeroot, May 21, 2016, 01:56:31 PM

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compdude787

Cloverleaf loops aren't like a horrible thing. But regardless, I-405 is just a nightmare period. It needs to be widened to be at least 8 lanes for its entire length. Unfortunately, that's going to mean that the I-405/SR-522 interchange is going to need to be rebuilt, because it's impossible to widen the freeway through there without hitting the pillars for the flyovers. Other than that issue, that interchange is not that bad, except that the offramp from I-405 NB to SR 522 EB should be widened to 2 lanes because it often backs up onto I-405 NB by 3:30 pm each weekday.


jakeroot

Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 19, 2016, 08:02:40 PM
Why is it just an HOT ramp?  All of 405's freeway interchanges are nightmares, especially 167 and 520.  They need flyovers for GP lanes as well to replace the cloverleaf loops.

Renders have been produced in the past that show a radically reconfigured interchange with another flyover for SB to SB traffic, but current renders don't show this flyover.

The render below, which is printed in this PDF from May 2006, also deletes two loop ramps for traffic going to and from Rainier Ave. If they're going to remove two loop ramps, it should be the freeway-to-freeway loops, not the freeway-to-arterial (405 to Rainier) ramps. Then again, these are just renders.


jakeroot

Tacoma's "arrow per lane" sign (5 SB at 16 West) is back up. It's very similar to the original, but the two left arrows aren't conjoined this time around. I suspect these are near-final signs. The pull-through sign has greened-out arrows (and until final configuration, they'll likely remain greened out).

Once this entire stretch is complete (HOV flyover and all), this will likely be one of the widest stretches of freeway in the Puget Sound (other contenders are the 5 through Seattle, and near the 405/518 interchange, as well as the 90 at Bellevue Way). My estimate is 14-15 lanes from one side to the other.


Bruce

And yet it still will be congested...

jakeroot

Quote from: Bruce on October 05, 2016, 10:14:24 PM
And yet it still will be congested...

The tie-up through there is usually the result of 705 traffic swapping lanes with the traffic bound for 16. This isn't being fixed here, but the HOV flyover will relieve some of the traffic using that right-side ramp, potentially reducing the congestion.

In my experience (and trust me, it's plentiful), the 5 through Tacoma actually moves pretty well most of the day. From 0500 to 0730, and from 1400-1730, it's slow. But that's just normal rush hour congestion.

sparker

Quote from: compdude787 on September 20, 2016, 02:11:02 AM
Cloverleaf loops aren't like a horrible thing. But regardless, I-405 is just a nightmare period. It needs to be widened to be at least 8 lanes for its entire length. Unfortunately, that's going to mean that the I-405/SR-522 interchange is going to need to be rebuilt, because it's impossible to widen the freeway through there without hitting the pillars for the flyovers. Other than that issue, that interchange is not that bad, except that the offramp from I-405 NB to SR 522 EB should be widened to 2 lanes because it often backs up onto I-405 NB by 3:30 pm each weekday.
As long as we're discussing I-405 interchanges -- and their inadequacies -- the south terminus at I-5 has been in dire need of revamping for -- well -- at least 30 years!  The south 405 to south 5 cloverleaf was obsolete decades ago, as was the single-lane ramp from 5 north to 405.  A flyover is sorely needed southbound, while an easing of the curvature -- along with another lane -- would work well for the northbound transition.  I don't know if there's any state or local political support for a revision of this interchange, but as it is presently configured it doesn't do much to position I-405 as a bypass of downtown Seattle -- and maybe that in itself has become a rationale for not addressing the interchange, considering the congestion along I-405 north of I-90.  In any case, the interchange, as a stand-alone facility, is effectively obsolete, and warrants attention. 

kkt

I just hate Seattle sometimes.  The 520 bridge E-W is closed for inspection.  Why do you have to close a bridge the entire weekend to inspect it?  And it's only been open for a couple of months and it was fully inspected then.  Do other long-span bridges close for a weekend every couple of months, or is Seattle just lucky?

So of course there's a ton of traffic going north-south in Seattle.  What could we do to make it even worse?  I know!  We could close WA 99 too!  What, some people are still trying to get around the city?  We'll show them!  Close 23rd Ave. E too!  We'll leave I-5, but a couple of accidents will take care of it just fine.
"Expect delays!"

duaneu2

Quote from: kkt on October 08, 2016, 06:05:47 PM
I just hate Seattle sometimes.  The 520 bridge E-W is closed for inspection.  Why do you have to close a bridge the entire weekend to inspect it?  And it's only been open for a couple of months and it was fully inspected then.  Do other long-span bridges close for a weekend every couple of months, or is Seattle just lucky?

So of course there's a ton of traffic going north-south in Seattle.  What could we do to make it even worse?  I know!  We could close WA 99 too!  What, some people are still trying to get around the city?  We'll show them!  Close 23rd Ave. E too!  We'll leave I-5, but a couple of accidents will take care of it just fine.
"Expect delays!"

The 520 closure isn't for inspections:

"Steve Peer with the Washington State Department of Transportation says 520 will be closed in both directions between Montlake and 92nd in Medina from 11 p.m. Friday to 5 a.m. on Monday. Crews will be striping, paving, and doing drainage and lighting work. Crews from the toll division will be installing new equipment.

Peer says most of the work can be completed, even if it rains.

"We've got a lot of work to be done and we just kind of wanted to rip off the Band-Aid and do it all."

If WSDOT didn't do the work this weekend, it could result in up to three weeks of overnight closures.

There will be two big changes drivers will notice on Monday. Workers will re-stripe the left lane across the 520 floating bridge, turning some of the HOV lane – about 2,000 feet of it – into a general purpose lane to give drivers more opportunity to merge on the west end.

"What that will do is allow vehicles to have a better chance to merge between the three lanes of the floating bridge and the two lanes of the existing structure,"  Peer said. This will allow for a smoother westbound commute, he added.

The other big change drivers will notice is a new set of tolling equipment over 520, closer to the water. When the state tied-in the new bridge to the system, it moved the tolling equipment to the east. The state is moving the equipment back to its permanent spot. Both tolling sites will flash blue when you go under them, but you will not be tolled twice."

kkt

Thank you.  Serves me right for listening to what the radio said.

Seattle-Issaquah midafternoon, 95 minutes.  Issaquah-Seattle 10 PM, 20 minutes.

Buffaboy

I wonder how that Spokane corridor was approved for construction. Looks like a useful highway, but if a similar project were proposed here in Buffalo I couldn't even imagine the amount of opposition that would come up. There would be a lot of it too.s
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy

jakeroot

Quote from: Buffaboy on October 15, 2016, 11:39:27 PM
I wonder how that Spokane corridor was approved for construction. Looks like a useful highway, but if a similar project were proposed here in Buffalo I couldn't even imagine the amount of opposition that would come up. There would be a lot of it too.s

Part of me suspects that those who initially opposed the freeway are now dead (and their ancestors, who never saw the construction of any other freeways, simply don't care). It's also a pretty conservative part of Washington (cars are very much the rule in Spokane), so any project that might alleviate congestion downtown is met with wide acceptance.

Roughly 615 buildings will be demolished in total. That is pretty staggering: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1997/jun/01/north-south-freeway-exact-quite-toll/

The Ghostbuster

I suspect it will be awhile before the freeway reaches Interstate 90.

The Ghostbuster

I was right. A 2029 completion date is quite a while.

jakeroot

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 17, 2016, 05:05:23 PM
I suspect it will be awhile before the freeway reaches Interstate 90.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 17, 2016, 05:06:42 PM
I was right. A 2029 completion date is quite a while.

2029 has (roughly) been the plan since current plans came to fruition. Funding is simply slow to arrive, so construction advances relatively slowly.

The 167 and 509 freeway extensions won't be completed until the early 2030s (again, because funding is slow to arrive):

- http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/sr167/tacomatoedgewood/
- http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/I5/SR509FreightCongestionRelief/default.htm

Bruce

Speaking of the North Spokane Corridor, WSDOT seems to be re-evaluating the routing because of a contaminated area that could require extensive and expensive mitigation: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/news/2016/10/17/north-spokane-corridor-alignment-alternatives-be-presented-oct-27-public-meeting

sparker

Quote from: Bruce on October 17, 2016, 11:03:36 PM
Speaking of the North Spokane Corridor, WSDOT seems to be re-evaluating the routing because of a contaminated area that could require extensive and expensive mitigation: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/news/2016/10/17/north-spokane-corridor-alignment-alternatives-be-presented-oct-27-public-meeting

Considering that the routing is through the old Great Northern Hilyard rail classification yard (which before its closing in the '70's was quite massive), environmentally-toxic waste issues are certainly not surprising.  A combination of old Bunker 2 oil, diesel fuel, coolant, and rusty water permeating the ground since early steam days doesn't make for pristine ground with which to work.  Similar if not identical issues were present when the old Southern Pacific yard in Roseville, CA was reconfigured 30 years ago; they're still finding traces of toxic waste in and around that area.  Especially troublesome are the areas where locomotives -- both steam and diesel -- were maintained and stored.   Safe bet -- they'll realign the North Spokane corridor around the perimeter of the old yard so as not to require significant digging in the more polluted areas.  If they stay along the path of the old main line (generally along one side or the other of the yard tracks) rather than go into the yard area itself, they should encounter less toxicity.  The issue will likely require a facility redesign, with an accompanying schedule delay; the corridor will eventually be built, but it's unlikely to look like the original plans.

compdude787

Hopefully, WSDOT can route it in such a way that won't require them to tear down any buildings. Part of the reason why they routed it through the railyard was to prevent this. The best solution I can think of is to move the freeway to the east part of the old railyard, but then you could potentially annoy the people living there, because they will then have a loud freeway closer to their houses.

jakeroot

#92
I've seen this image of the I-5 freeway after its completion (up to 72 St) on the Tacoma Public Library's image archive site several times, and I've noticed a couple of funny things about it:

First thing's first. The image description:

Quote from: Tacoma Public Library, bold bits added by jakeroot
Approximately 150 officials and onlookers watched in October of 1959 when Governor Albert D. Rosellini cut the bright red ribbon to open the first stretch of the Tacoma Freeway (I-5). The section ran from Gravelly Lake Dr. (near Ponders) to 72nd St.; the Highway 5G (south 104th St.) cloverleaf overpass is at top (present day SR 512). City, county and state dignitaries waited to tour, with the governor, the 6 lane stretch of highway, that cost $4,800,000 to construct. Gov. Rosellini is in the center of the picture, to the left of Rosellini is County Commissioner Fritz Geiger and to the left of him is Tacoma Mayor Ben Hanson. To the far right of the picture is Highways Director William A. Bugge. This is one of the least expensive segments of the freeway in Tacoma; the total cost of the freeway within the Tacoma city limits was 25 million dollars ($206 Mil in 2016). (TNT 10/1/1959, pg. 1)

1) Sprague Ave must have been the route that existed where I-5 is today. When the freeway was built as far as 72 St, it must have ended and become Sprague (the current off-ramp for Sprague is from another freeway entirely, several miles to the north).

2) The signs are rounded off. I've always thought this looked cleaner. Must have been standard procedure at one point. There are still some old, rounded signs scattered around the state, but they are increasingly hard to come by.


jakeroot

May have answered my own question, as usual.

Quote from: jakeroot on October 18, 2016, 05:11:13 PM
1) Sprague Ave must have been the route that existed where I-5 is today. When the freeway was built as far as 72 St, it must have ended and become Sprague (the current off-ramp for Sprague is from another freeway entirely, several miles to the north).

Looks like modern-day Tacoma Mall Boulevard was called South Sprague all the way down to 84 St. When the freeway ended at 72 St, I assume you could make a left onto South Sprague. No idea what the "Seattle Tacoma" sign on the right is leading to, however.

This is another image, preceded by its description:

Quote from: Tacoma Public Library, bold bits added by jakeroot
1969 Richards stock footage. A new motor inn was being built in the summer of 1969 at 6802 So. Sprague Ave. (now 6802 Tacoma Mall Blvd), close to So. 72nd and the freeway. The Rodeway Inn of America was part of a large nationwide chain of motels. Its blue and white logo was a familiar sign to budget conscious travelers who could be assured of comfortable rooms and reasonable prices. Built at a cost of 1.25 million dollars, the 130-unit complex was managed by Johnny H. Lambert. It would offer a restaurant/lounge, heated swimming pool, convention and banquet facilities and meeting rooms. The luxury motel hotel would be open for business in early November, 1969. (TNT 11-2-69, D-14)


Bruce

As a little side project, I've been trying to track down exactly when each freeway segment in the area opened, using newspaper archives and published books. So far, I've got a fair bit of Snohomish County, but not much else. https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1ILxw-86Y1JRTS1ZpEW0zFpF_YJ0

compdude787

Quote from: Bruce on October 20, 2016, 05:11:10 PM
As a little side project, I've been trying to track down exactly when each freeway segment in the area opened, using newspaper archives and published books. So far, I've got a fair bit of Snohomish County, but not much else. https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1ILxw-86Y1JRTS1ZpEW0zFpF_YJ0

Cool! Looks pretty interesting so far!!

jakeroot

WSDOT is studying SR 162, which runs between Sumner and Orting, and ways to improve travel times and capacity, particularly in the event of volcano evacuation.

http://wsdot.wa.gov/planning/Studies/SR162Corridor.htm

My recommendation would be to bypass the current road with a new dual carriageway. There's plenty of open farmland surrounding the road. Build roundabouts at major crossing points. More free-flow, the better.

compdude787

WSDOT is going to replace the damaged Chamber Way overpass over I-5 with a new bridge that is going to have more clearance than the old one. According to the project webpage, the bridge will be replaced next year.

kkt


jakeroot

Found this old image of Bellevue circa 1969. Can't help but notice the zebra crosswalk. They even have that small but noticeable tire gap (the gaps are larger than the painted bits). Besides the fact that Bellevue today uses transverse markings at most crosswalks (one of only a few cities in Washington to continue doing so), my impression has always been that piano/zebra markings only came into play in Washington starting in the 1990s. It'd be one thing if someone told me that they started showing up back in the early 80s (though still surprising), but 1969!? Wow.

I'd post a new shot of this location (103 Ave NE looking north/east from Main Street), but it looks virtually identical to this photo.

Props to Bellevue for continuing the stripes all the way to the last possible moment (far left edge of the photo, notice that tiny white bit of paint -- today's road crews would give up after that second-to-left marking).




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