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Author Topic: Oregon's New Gas Law  (Read 19489 times)

Jim

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2018, 11:00:21 AM »

The first time I visited Oregon back in 1999, I had no idea that I was not allowed to pump my own gas.  When I did, the reaction I got would make you think I was murdering the attendant or was taking a blowtorch to their pumps to try to cause an explosion.
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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2018, 11:10:13 AM »

I'm surprised OBD II didn't go wild.  Your vehicle is new enough to require a completely sealed gas cap and taking it off while the engine is running is enough to set a leak DTC for the evaporative emissions system.

Many new cars (Fords, some Hondas) don't even have a gas cap anymore. Last time I went to get my 2013 car inspected, they didn't even pressure check the gas cap, so whats in there really doesn't do anything.

Filling up with the engine running is a common sight in full serve NJ too.
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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2018, 11:25:31 AM »

The first time I visited Oregon back in 1999, I had no idea that I was not allowed to pump my own gas.  When I did, the reaction I got would make you think I was murdering the attendant or was taking a blowtorch to their pumps to try to cause an explosion.

The first time I ever went to Oregon it was on US 199 and stopped somewhere southwest of Grants Pass.  The attendant saw me filling up and was going to say something until he saw the Arizona tag.  Nice enough old guy to explain that it probably wasnít a good idea to fill up myself near I-5 or a major roadway, he let me fill up on my own as we were talking about the state law.  Iím to understand most people coming from US 199 are generally coming from Redwood National Park so they are kind of used to out of state people there.
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J N Winkler

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2018, 03:06:22 PM »

Many new cars (Fords, some Hondas) don't even have a gas cap anymore. Last time I went to get my 2013 car inspected, they didn't even pressure check the gas cap, so whats in there really doesn't do anything.

Ford's EasyFill system includes a flap in the filler neck that seals in fuel vapors and is supposed to lock when the car is locked:  that is how EasyFill-equipped cars are able to omit the gas cap.

OBD II is federally required and part of the specification is leak detection in the evaporative emissions system.  A missing gas cap in a car that requires a cap for sealing is enough to set a P0440 ("gross leak") code.

The first time I visited Oregon back in 1999, I had no idea that I was not allowed to pump my own gas.  When I did, the reaction I got would make you think I was murdering the attendant or was taking a blowtorch to their pumps to try to cause an explosion.

You are not alone--Rich Piehl (longtime MTR regular whom I think is not on this board) mentioned a similar experience when this change was being discussed on the road-related Facebook groups.

I knew about the self-serve ban before I drove into Oregon for the first time, because my first exposure to the concept of a self-serve ban was in New Jersey.  At the time (I have not been to NJ since 1998), it was common for the gas jockey to be right at your window as you pulled to a stop at the pump, so that you couldn't even open the door until you handed over a payment instrument to start the transaction; I was never actually in a position to start the pump myself.  I later did research on the Web and discovered that NJ and Oregon were the only two states with self-serve bans.
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Stephane Dumas

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2018, 05:38:44 PM »

Lots of funny stuff if you search Twitter hashtag #Oregongas this morning.

I spotted that meme on that blog http://moonbattery.com/?p=91196 along with that clip from Back to the Future where once upon a time gas attendants also clean the windshield, oil check, tire pressure check.

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pdx-wanderer

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2018, 11:46:20 PM »

Many of those Eastern Oregon counties already had self service at night, like the coastal counties will now. Most of those stations usually aren't too busy, when the self serve ban really gets annoying is when there's 10 cars waiting for gas in Portland with only one high school kid working. When it's not busy though, it's definitely nice to stay in the car and out of the rain.
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compdude787

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2018, 12:33:08 AM »

Most of those stations usually aren't too busy, when the self serve ban really gets annoying is when there's 10 cars waiting for gas in Portland with only one high school kid working.

Yep. I've had this experience in Portland. I stopped at a gas station just south of the Interstate Bridge on Hayden Island, and it was super busy with only one attendant working, so I was just like "screw it" and drove across the border into Washington and pumped my own gas.  :nod:

MNHighwayMan

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2018, 12:35:07 AM »

If there's any place that needs manned gas pumps, it's the Upper Midwest. You go try pumping gas when it's below zero outside!
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Buck87

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2018, 11:03:41 AM »




For a split second, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with this. 

There might not be anything wrong with that pic if it was was taken at a BP station that has green handles for gas and black handles for diesel.
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kalvado

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2018, 11:37:47 AM »

If there's any place that needs manned gas pumps, it's the Upper Midwest. You go try pumping gas when it's below zero outside!
Maybe that is exactly why there will be no full service there. Working full shift at that temperature is tough...
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kphoger

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2018, 01:47:39 PM »

Just the other day, in fact, I left my engine running to fill up with gas.  It was eleven degrees outside, and my battery was low.  When I left home, the engine struggled to turn over, the gauge needles flickered for a few seconds, and then it just barely kicked to life.  No way I was going to shut that car off while pumping gas, or else I'd be stranded at the pump in the bitter cold.

I'm surprised OBD II didn't go wild.  Your vehicle is new enough to require a completely sealed gas cap and taking it off while the engine is running is enough to set a leak DTC for the evaporative emissions system.

I've never had much of an issue with that.  Of course, over the last eight years, it's been a rare occasion that I've had a car whose check engine light was not on.  I don't know if that's the indicator that a leak would trigger but, if it is, then I would never know because my check engine light has been on pretty much since we bought it for one of the catalytic converters.  Considering I drove our minivan for 100k miles with a backwards cat to no detriment, I've been postponing that fix.
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kphoger

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2018, 01:54:32 PM »

If there's any place that needs manned gas pumps, it's the Upper Midwest. You go try pumping gas when it's below zero outside!

The first time I ever encountered a full-serve pump was near the IL/MO border along US-54.  If memory serves, it was in the town of Louisiana (MO); I can't find the gas station on Google Maps, but it's possible it was torn down or rebuilt or whatever.  Anyway, it never occurred to me that I should look for the self-serve pump instead of the full-serve pump because, as I said, I'd never encountered a full-serve pump before.  It was after dark in the middle of a snowstorm, I pulled up to the pump and began getting ready to dispense my gas.  Then the attendant came out from the station, all bundled up to beat the cold wind, ready to pump for me.  I looked at the sign and noticed the price difference between full- and self-serve, didn't want to pay the extra money, apologized to the gentleman, and moved one pump over.  I felt kind of bad for the guy, considering I made him come outside for nothing in the middle of the nasty weather.
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J N Winkler

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2018, 07:03:55 PM »

I've never had much of an issue with that.  Of course, over the last eight years, it's been a rare occasion that I've had a car whose check engine light was not on.  I don't know if that's the indicator that a leak would trigger but, if it is, then I would never know because my check engine light has been on pretty much since we bought it for one of the catalytic converters.

Yes, the P0440 "gross leak" code that sets when the gas cap is taken off with the engine running will turn on a steady CEL.  I think it may also self-clear when the gas cap is put back on and OBD II sees that the "gross leak" is now absent, but I am not completely sure.

The catalyst-related CEL sounds like a tired rear oxygen sensor to me.  In this case, I would say the charging system is a much higher priority.  Feeble cranking when cold is a sign of a battery on its way out, and possibly the alternator as well (the two will set up a circular firing squad under the hood:  hence rules of thumb like "three summers, two winters" for a battery to keep the alternator healthy, or "alternator life is equal to two consecutive battery lifetimes").
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2018, 08:12:41 PM »

If there's any place that needs manned gas pumps, it's the Upper Midwest. You go try pumping gas when it's below zero outside!
The first time I ever encountered a full-serve pump was near the IL/MO border along US-54.  If memory serves, it was in the town of Louisiana (MO); I can't find the gas station on Google Maps, but it's possible it was torn down or rebuilt or whatever.  Anyway, it never occurred to me that I should look for the self-serve pump instead of the full-serve pump because, as I said, I'd never encountered a full-serve pump before.  It was after dark in the middle of a snowstorm, I pulled up to the pump and began getting ready to dispense my gas.  Then the attendant came out from the station, all bundled up to beat the cold wind, ready to pump for me.  I looked at the sign and noticed the price difference between full- and self-serve, didn't want to pay the extra money, apologized to the gentleman, and moved one pump over.  I felt kind of bad for the guy, considering I made him come outside for nothing in the middle of the nasty weather.

Having never encountered a full-service pump myself, either, I think I'd do exactly the same thing. :ded: :-D
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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2018, 08:53:18 PM »

That story reminds me of a trip to New Jersey the year after I graduated from college to attend the wedding of two college friends. A bunch of us were up there. I had to buy gas there before starting home and one of my friends pulled up to the same gas station. He automatically got out and started to remove his gas cap...you would have thought he was robbing a bank or something the way the attendant reacted. Thing is, he had never bought gas in Jersey before and didnít know about their stupid law, so I donít see how you could really blame him. (It wasnít on the Turnpike where the service areas are always busyóthis was a regular station somewhere around Parsippany.)
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kkt

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2018, 01:07:00 AM »

Remember when full service was the norm in all states...
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J N Winkler

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2018, 01:49:01 AM »

Remember when full service was the norm in all states...

I am too young to remember such a time.  Here is a capsule history of self-service gas stations in the US (in 1971, Oregon and New Jersey were among 14 states that banned customer dispensing of gasoline--my home state, Kansas, was also one of them):

https://www.masterresource.org/self-service-service-station-bans/self-service-institutionalized/

And Westminster, Colorado claims to be ground zero for self-service as it is currently known in the US:

https://www.denverpost.com/2014/06/08/self-service-gas-began-50-years-ago-in-westminster/

Wikipedia also has an article on pay-at-the-pump which says it started in 1982 in Europe.  I have been driving for 25 years now and even when I started, the population of gas pumps not capable of accepting payment had dwindled to the point where they were not difficult to avoid in urban areas.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 01:53:50 AM by J N Winkler »
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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2018, 01:54:04 AM »

when the self serve ban really gets annoying is when there's 10 cars waiting for gas in Portland with only one high school kid working

Even worse, when the one kid can't figure out the order to pump gas.  They inevitably start the rear car first, which means that car can't leave until the front car is finished.  He'll do one side of the island, while leaving the other side of the island waiting (either to pump or to have the nozzle removed).  He walks at a snail's pace even though pumps are clicking off.  He'll remove the nozzle from the rear car first while the front car is done, so the rear car can't do anything until he gets around to the front car - and usually, he walks to the other side of the island, so the rear car can't go, the front car is still waiting...

"Professional Fuel Dispensing Technician" my a--...  But what's worse is when I go up to Washington and there are folks up there who can't figure out how to pump their gas - and yes, they have Washington plates on their cars. 
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nexus73

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2018, 11:32:59 AM »

Remember when full service was the norm in all states...


...and free air and water plus maps too!  Nowadays the ripoff owners of gas stations want to charge $1.50 for air. 

Rick
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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2018, 12:01:30 PM »

Remember when full service was the norm in all states...


...and free air and water plus maps too!  Nowadays the ripoff owners of gas stations want to charge $1.50 for air. 

Rick

Yep.  And water.
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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2018, 02:41:42 PM »

I've been in that line of work.  If I didn't ask each driver if I could check their oil, I had to give them a free quart, and it came out of my pay.   
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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2018, 03:01:07 PM »

Remember when full service was the norm in all states...


...and free air and water plus maps too!  Nowadays the ripoff owners of gas stations want to charge $1.50 for air. 

Rick
Seriously? I have never gotten air ouside of Sherwood but air/water is free here at the Chevron.

LG-TP260

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2018, 03:43:52 PM »

Remember when full service was the norm in all states...


...and free air and water plus maps too!  Nowadays the ripoff owners of gas stations want to charge $1.50 for air. 

Rick
Seriously? I have never gotten air ouside of Sherwood but air/water is free here at the Chevron.

LG-TP260

In the Boise area all the Sinclair stations have free air, but most of the other stations (Maverik for sure, but I think Chevron and Shell as well) have machines that require payment before you get air. I don't know how much they charge, since I always go to the Sinclair for free air.

This map is far from complete (its crowdsourced; I've added a few stations myself), but a good resource either way: https://www.freeairpump.com/map/

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2018, 05:48:13 PM »

It seems ludicrous to me that any stations at all charge for air. It should always be free, much like a glass of water is at a restaurant.
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kalvado

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Re: Oregon's New Gas Law
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2018, 06:21:30 PM »

It seems ludicrous to me that any stations at all charge for air. It should always be free, much like a glass of water is at a restaurant.
If the station has some sort of pneumatically driven stuff - like mechanics' tools, or gas pumps - then adding a regulator and a hose to already installed air systemis a relatively cheap thing.
Many station have dedicated installs with a standalone compressor and some control logic. Those may think that since they invest in machine, they should recoup the costs.
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