Vincennes, IN US 50/ US 41 Bypass

[Southern Illinois SKYWARN]

I have always wondered about this small section of roadway.  I know that I-64 was originally planned to use this route, but was pushed farther south closer to Evansville thanks to some lobbying.  Does anyone know why I-64 was originally scheduled to use this route?  Also, I must question why INDOT and I(L)DOT continue to maintain this roadway as four lanes.  (And yes, my punctuation is correct there)

[Revive 755]

This is just a couple of wild guesses, but I think I-64 was originally going to follow US 50 in Illinois because there were more towns along that route than US 460.  There's pretty much nothing along I-64 east of Mt. Vernon in Illinois, while US 50 passes by Flora, Olney, and Lawrenceville.  My more wild guess is that I-24 was originally planned to reach the St. Louis area, and someone back then felt that having I-64 run along US 460 would be to close to it.

Sometimes I think the US 50-US 150 alignment for I-64 would have been better, as it would then require less construction to add an interstate providing a more direct St. Louis-Cincinnati route.

[Southern Illinois SKYWARN]

There's pretty much nothing along I-64 east of Mt. Vernon in Illinois, while US 50 passes by Flora, Olney, and Lawrenceville. 

I am slightly insulted by that since I live halfway between US 50 and I-64 in Mount Carmel, Il/   I think the main reason it was taken south was due to lobbying by IN Gov in the 1970s, Otis Bowen.  According to an old map I got a hold of, it was scheduled to stay on the northern alignment up unitl the early 1970s.  However, when the decision was made to pu the freeway farther south, it should have went farther to the south or just stayed on the northern alignment.  BTW, Lawrenceville and Flora both amount to practically nothing now, Onley serves somewhat as a local service center.

[ssummers72]

The I-64 Debate:

The city of Vincennes wanted I-64 to follow the US-50 corridor enroute to St. Louis.

The city of Evansville was pushing for a more Northerly track of I-24 through Evansville along US-41 to NW Indiana.
       This route was denied by the BPR because it duplicated service from I-57 and I-65.

So, Evansville pushed for I-64 to be moved further south along the IN-64 corridor to better serve the Evansville area.

On a related note: Both Illinois and Indiana began construction of I-64 around Vincennes (The US-50 Wabash River Bridge) and Westward into Illinois along US-50.

I have more information but it's at home.

Stephen

[SSOWorld]

And out of it you get I-164 (or actually I-69)

[Southern Illinois SKYWARN]

Kind of getting back to the second part of my original question, just a few years ago a new bridge was built for both of the two lane carriage ways.  While I am too lazy to look up traffic counts, I know that the counts are far too low to support a four-lane freeway.  If the DOTs won't get rid of the freeway, at least they should think about taking it down to a Super-2.

[Revive 755]

I wouldn't consider Mt. Carmel to be on I-64.  Grayville, maybe, but not Mt. Carmel.

From IDOT's traffic volume map US 50 has an ADT of 5900 between IL 33 and CR 3, 7200 between 1740e and 1500e, and 8000 between 1500e and 1400e.

The BPR should have denied I-57 since it duplicates service from I-55.  They should have also denied I-30 (duplicates "service" from I-40 and I-20), and I-45 (duplicates service from I-35 and I-10).

[mukade]

There is an article somewhere on the web about who started the effort to move I-64 south towards Evansville. I am sorry, I do not have that URL. The person was a businessman in southern Indiana, not former Governor Bowen.

[tvketchum]

Try this link:

http://www.hohoholdings.com/hwhistory.htm

Holiday World and the Koch family were the main lobbyists. Carlylse Lake in Illinois also presented some issues, as it was constructed as the highway was going from planning to building.

[RoadWarrior56]

It would not had been Governor Bowen.  He was the governer when I-64 was completed through Indiana in the mid 1970's, although he was responsible for accelerating its completion by borrowing much of its construction cost from future FHWA funding.

I used to work at INDOT back in the late 70's while still in college at Purdue.  I was told that officials in Evansville lobbied hard to move I-64 south, and I don't doubt the influence of Santa Clause Land in the matter, as discussed in that article.  I worked part of that time in the Vincinnes district.  Some old timers there were still pissed off about the loss of I-64, as late as 1976, but since I was from Evansville, I wasn't too sympathetic.

[lamsalfl]

I wouldn't consider Mt. Carmel to be on I-64.  Grayville, maybe, but not Mt. Carmel.

From IDOT's traffic volume map US 50 has an ADT of 5900 between IL 33 and CR 3, 7200 between 1740e and 1500e, and 8000 between 1500e and 1400e.

The BPR should have denied I-57 since it duplicates service from I-55.  They should have also denied I-30 (duplicates "service" from I-40 and I-20), and I-45 (duplicates service from I-35 and I-10).

I don't know.  Maybe I-57, but I-45 connects two of the largest metros in the country, and I-35 doesn't even take the same angle north as I-45.  I-35 is impractical for HOU-DAL traffic even if I-45 doesn't exist.   I-30 is necessary to shuttle traffic SW.  Interstates can't all be due east-west.  But I can see your point with I-57.  Anyone know how many miles that it saves going from Chicago to Memphis via I-55 and I-57? 

[lamsalfl]

I saw on an aerial what appeared to be a parking lot for an Illinois Welcome Center on US 50.  Was there ever one, or did the plan get scrapped when I-64 was moved south?

[bugo]

The BPR should have denied I-57 since it duplicates service from I-55.  They should have also denied I-30 (duplicates "service" from I-40 and I-20), and I-45 (duplicates service from I-35 and I-10).

I hope you're joking.  I-30 is a MAJOR connector route and the route from Dallas to Memphis and points north and east.  I-45 is a major highway between Dallas and Houston.  Both should not have been denied.

[Revive 755]

I hope you're joking.  I-30 is a MAJOR connector route and the route from Dallas to Memphis and points north and east.  I-45 is a major highway between Dallas and Houston.  Both should not have been denied.

I'm partly joking; how much more indirect is Chicago to Nashville, TN over I-65 over a straight US 41 route compared to Dallas to Little Rock using I-35 and I-40 over I-30?  The I-45 example does appear bad now, but overall the BPR service duplication excuse is pathetic, especially given the military facilities (Fort Campbell) at Clarksville, TN that could have benefited from a north-south route.

[bugo]

Dallas to LR via I-30 is 317 miles according to Google Maps.  Dallas to LR via I-35E, I-35 and I-40 is 542 miles.  As you can see, not a duplication of anything.

[3467]

I would like to add IDOT is now studying US 50 for 4 lane from Olney to the existing bypass.
There was a Feas Study has anyone seen that? or an Exec Summary
The orginal poster was from Mt Carmel where there used to be an Illinois 1 Association
Does anyone know if it still exists?
Thanks

[Sykotyk]

US50 gets a lot of commercial truck use from Olney to Vincennes due to the Wal-Mart Distribution Center being located just west of Olney. That road was falling apart when I was down there last year. Plus, with the truck traffic, US50 west of Olney towards St. Louis is also getting disintegrated.

Sykotyk

[SSF]

I saw on an aerial what appeared to be a parking lot for an Illinois Welcome Center on US 50.  Was there ever one, or did the plan get scrapped when I-64 was moved south?

From what i remember of my childhood, i think there was a rest area there at one time.

Sykotyk-the road has just gotten worse, it's in bad need of some kind of repaving especially on the Illinois side of the Skelton bridge.

[jamesland77]

I believe that Vincennes University's hospitality department used to operate that rest area.  I also strongly suspect that a lot of the reason that I 64 runs in the alignment it does is to avoid the really hilly/forested terrain around Bedford and French Lick.  US 150 between Shoals and Paoli is one of the windiest most treacherous roads I've ever driven on.  Which also means its a lot of fun to drive on, but not so great for an Interstate.  Southern Indiana, Where I-64 runs now, on the other hand is largely flat

[NE2]

Here's at least one source for it being built as part of I-64: http://www.google.com/search?q=vincennes%20lawrenceville%20interstate%2050%20&tbo=u&tbm=bks

[RoadWarrior56]

Which document are you referring to?  The link in the above post, yields a list of documents to choose from.

[NE2]

Bleh - it only shows up sometimes; try refreshing. It's like only some of their servers have it indexed. Here's the document, but the snippet view is less useful than the search results. And the snippet doesn't even show all the time.

[agentsteel53]

I-45 (duplicates service from I-35 and I-10).

I-35 and I-10 go to Galveston now?

I agree that blowing a two-digit number (especially an X5!) on I-45 was foolish, but it should still be an interstate.  I-135 maybe?

[RoadWarrior56]

This looks like an interesting publication all around.  I am going to have to learn how to read and download Google books.  BTW, I was at Purdue as a lowly freshman and sophmore the year that book was published.  I do remember the JHRP while I was there.

[NE2]

This looks like an interesting publication all around.  I am going to have to learn how to read and download Google books.

You can't read a 'snippet view' book. But shiiiit - here it is: http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/jtrp/1415/ (click 'next technical report' at the top for other volumes).