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Started by mgk920, May 30, 2012, 02:33:31 AM

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triplemultiplex

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."


skluth

Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

thspfc

Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.
I think everyone is in agreement with this. Rimrock and Seminole especially, but I would get rid of Todd Drive and keep Fish Hatchery. Parmenter and Greenway in Middleton are also pretty redundant.

I-39

Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

I wish I could like this 1,000 times!

This is what people don't seem to understand, not just here, but in freeways and major arterials around the country. What causes congestion is not necessarily the number of lanes (though it can be a factor), but more often than not, its the number of access points! Transportation authorities and other agencies put too many interchanges, stoplights, etc, close together. This causes unsafe weaving conditions and major backups as it prevents a meaningful flow of traffic.

skluth

Quote from: thspfc on January 08, 2021, 11:22:58 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.
I think everyone is in agreement with this. Rimrock and Seminole especially, but I would get rid of Todd Drive and keep Fish Hatchery. Parmenter and Greenway in Middleton are also pretty redundant.

I'm fine with your idea but I doubt there's room for C-D lanes between Fish Hatchery and Park. The distance between the roads is maybe a half mile and IIRC it's the worst area outside the never-ending cluster**** at Verona Road/ Midvale. (It's been 10 years since I went that way so I don't know if the recent construction has helped; I'm not counting on it.) I really wouldn't want to keep both interchanges without C-D lanes or other mitigation which would add significantly to any upgrading costs. They'd probably have to take all the businesses along Ann St, though there's nothing there that couldn't be relocated.

I'm not familiar enough with the Beltline in Middleton to have a valid opinion (I was a poor college student without a car at the time), but looking at the map I'd say you're correct and would probably just get rid of the Greenway interchange too.

SSOWorld

Quote from: skluth on January 08, 2021, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 08, 2021, 11:22:58 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.
I think everyone is in agreement with this. Rimrock and Seminole especially, but I would get rid of Todd Drive and keep Fish Hatchery. Parmenter and Greenway in Middleton are also pretty redundant.

I'm fine with your idea but I doubt there's room for C-D lanes between Fish Hatchery and Park. The distance between the roads is maybe a half mile and IIRC it's the worst area outside the never-ending cluster**** at Verona Road/ Midvale. (It's been 10 years since I went that way so I don't know if the recent construction has helped; I'm not counting on it.) I really wouldn't want to keep both interchanges without C-D lanes or other mitigation which would add significantly to any upgrading costs. They'd probably have to take all the businesses along Ann St, though there's nothing there that couldn't be relocated.

I'm not familiar enough with the Beltline in Middleton to have a valid opinion (I was a poor college student without a car at the time), but looking at the map I'd say you're correct and would probably just get rid of the Greenway interchange too.
The Midvale-Verona interchange is now a SPUI with a roundabout jughandle following that on Verona. then 1 at-grade before the freeway starts (extended across McKee and under Williamsburg Way)
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

peterj920

Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

The Rimrock Rd Interchange is very busy and getting rid of it would inconvenience a lot of people. There are quite a few people that depend on it south of The Beltline. I personally used it every work day before having to work from home. If you get rid of that interchange it would cause way more problems on John Nolen Dr since so many people would have to turn left to get onto Rimrock when hardly anyone needs to now. Has anyone thought of that traffic issue that removing the Rimrock Interchange would cause?

skluth

Quote from: peterj920 on January 09, 2021, 01:01:41 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

The Rimrock Rd Interchange is very busy and getting rid of it would inconvenience a lot of people. There are quite a few people that depend on it south of The Beltline. I personally used it every work day before having to work from home. If you get rid of that interchange it would cause way more problems on John Nolen Dr since so many people would have to turn left to get onto Rimrock when hardly anyone needs to now. Has anyone thought of that traffic issue that removing the Rimrock Interchange would cause?

Rimrock should be closed because it's too close to the exits on either side (the Beltline viaducts at Park and John Nolan are only 6800' apart as measured on Google Earth) and the least busy of the three busy exits. It would never have been built if the Beltline was being planned today. Yes, it inconveniences a lot of people but not that significantly; it's not like drivers are forced miles out of their way. Much of the traffic coming from/going to points west could use the underused (about 3,000/day on each ramp) US 14 McCoy Road exit if the John Nolen/ Rimrock intersection is too troublesome for the drivers. The less busy ramps to/from points east can be accessed the same way for those coming from the south, those closer south of the highway can exit at South Towne Drive/ Raymond Road, or John Nolan if they're north of the highway. These two ramps may be less a problem because of the continuous extra lane between Rimrock and John Nolan, but Rimrock to Park is far too close even with the extra mitigation lanes. I doubt removing Rimrock adds more than three minutes to any driver's commute. A lot of people are inconvenienced by highway upgrades, but most drivers will benefit by the significantly better traffic flow on the Beltline. In this case, a few people's inconvenience of having to drive a couple extra minutes to get to a freeway is as First World Problem as it gets. If the inconvenienced person is you, it may be of some consolation that I went through the same thing when Virginia closed the entrance onto the MLK Freeway in Portsmouth out of my Shea Terrace neighborhood as part of the Pinner's Point Interchange construction which added almost two minutes to my drive normally (but 5-10 during the morning rush).

I believe the traffic counts support thspfc's argument for keeping Fish Hatchery; over 11K to/from all directions on the Beltline though strangely the least busy movement on the Beltline (from WB) is the only one with two ramps. He's probably right that it would be better to close the Todd Drive exit. It's too bad that Dane County didn't extend Todd Drive down to Fish Hatchery back when Crazy TV Lenny was doing all those American TV ads.

peterj920

#3058
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It's Fitchburg's Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

The Ghostbuster

There is a Beltline Corridor Study ongoing (US 14 to CTH N): https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/madisonbeltline/default.aspx. There haven't been any updates as to what they might do to the corridor since the last public involvement meetings in the fall of 2015.

I-39

Quote from: peterj920 on January 11, 2021, 03:20:00 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It's Fitchburg's Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?

thspfc

Quote from: I-39 on January 11, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on January 11, 2021, 03:20:00 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It's Fitchburg's Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?
Todd needs to go. There are so many accidents in the area of that interchange.

I agree with Peter's assessment of Fish Hatchery. Going off his points about the Rimrock interchange, I think that the Rimrock interchange could be removed if the John Nolen interchange was rebuilt similarily to the Verona Road interchange. But to be honest, I don't see any changes to Rimrock or John Nolen for a very long time.

peterj920

Quote from: I-39 on January 11, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on January 11, 2021, 03:20:00 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It's Fitchburg's Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?

The Seminole Hwy Interchange will be removed once the US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Phase 3 portion of the project gets constructed in order for high speed ramps to be constructed. That is many years away.

I-39

Quote from: peterj920 on January 14, 2021, 03:00:32 AM
Quote from: I-39 on January 11, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on January 11, 2021, 03:20:00 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It's Fitchburg's Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?

The Seminole Hwy Interchange will be removed once the US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Phase 3 portion of the project gets constructed in order for high speed ramps to be constructed. That is many years away.

I don't think Phase 3 will be done ever. They may as well just remove the ramps now, along with Todd Drive.

thspfc

Quote from: I-39 on January 14, 2021, 09:45:05 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on January 14, 2021, 03:00:32 AM
Quote from: I-39 on January 11, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on January 11, 2021, 03:20:00 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It's Fitchburg's Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?

The Seminole Hwy Interchange will be removed once the US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Phase 3 portion of the project gets constructed in order for high speed ramps to be constructed. That is many years away.

I don't think Phase 3 will be done ever. They may as well just remove the ramps now, along with Todd Drive.
I agree with I-39 here. WISDOT spent all that time and money on phase 2. They're not ripping it up and starting over anytime soon. I think the earliest we could see construction of phase 3 is 25-30 years. They should just do away with the useless interchanges now.

thspfc

Also, on Seminole - does anyone know the backstory of how it got that name? Becuase I'm surprised it survived the latest wave of cancel culture, especially in a place like Madison.

I-39

Quote from: thspfc on January 14, 2021, 12:42:02 PM
Quote from: I-39 on January 14, 2021, 09:45:05 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on January 14, 2021, 03:00:32 AM
Quote from: I-39 on January 11, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on January 11, 2021, 03:20:00 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It's Fitchburg's Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?

The Seminole Hwy Interchange will be removed once the US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Phase 3 portion of the project gets constructed in order for high speed ramps to be constructed. That is many years away.

I don't think Phase 3 will be done ever. They may as well just remove the ramps now, along with Todd Drive.
I agree with I-39 here. WISDOT spent all that time and money on phase 2. They're not ripping it up and starting over anytime soon. I think the earliest we could see construction of phase 3 is 25-30 years. They should just do away with the useless interchanges now.

IIRC, I don't think Phase 3 would impact the existing improvements too much, but it's just not needed from a traffic flow standpoint at this point and I'm not sure if it will ever be. The only thing I would've done differently is grade separate Raymond Rd.

midwesternroadguy

The 2021 WisDOT online county maps are out.  I only found one revision: the incorporation of Vernon in Waukesha County.  Instead, there is a growing list of omissions/errors that have persisted for a number of years.

The depiction of the Madison Beltline  and non-interstate freeways in Milwaukee County as just multi lane divided highway.  This demotion was intentional and based on speed limits?   WTH, when is a freeway not cartographically designated as such because it has a 55 mph limit?

The incorporation of Somers in Kenosha County.

The S-curve project on US 12 and County Trunk C in Sauk County.

Who do we contact to fix these–the State Cartographer's Office?

SEWIGuy

#3068
Quote from: thspfc on January 14, 2021, 12:46:52 PM
Also, on Seminole - does anyone know the backstory of how it got that name? Becuase I'm surprised it survived the latest wave of cancel culture, especially in a place like Madison.


Seminole Highway emerges from the neighborhood where multiple streets are named after Native tribes.  However the road itself predates that neighborhood so my guess is that it had some name prior to that back when it was a country road.  I used to drive it every day when I was lucky enough to take the car to school.

dvferyance

Quote from: midwesternroadguy on January 15, 2021, 12:03:56 AM
The 2021 WisDOT online county maps are out.  I only found one revision: the incorporation of Vernon in Waukesha County.  Instead, there is a growing list of omissions/errors that have persisted for a number of years.

The depiction of the Madison Beltline  and non-interstate freeways in Milwaukee County as just multi lane divided highway.  This demotion was intentional and based on speed limits?   WTH, when is a freeway not cartographically designated as such because it has a 55 mph limit?

The incorporation of Somers in Kenosha County.

The S-curve project on US 12 and County Trunk C in Sauk County.

Who do we contact to fix these–the State Cartographer's Office?
My goodness the town of Vernon is now a village? Soon every remaining township in SE Wisconsin will be. Yet to this day the Town of Brookfield which is basically a village in many ways still not incorporated.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: dvferyance on January 25, 2021, 03:35:56 PM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on January 15, 2021, 12:03:56 AM
The 2021 WisDOT online county maps are out.  I only found one revision: the incorporation of Vernon in Waukesha County.  Instead, there is a growing list of omissions/errors that have persisted for a number of years.

The depiction of the Madison Beltline  and non-interstate freeways in Milwaukee County as just multi lane divided highway.  This demotion was intentional and based on speed limits?   WTH, when is a freeway not cartographically designated as such because it has a 55 mph limit?

The incorporation of Somers in Kenosha County.

The S-curve project on US 12 and County Trunk C in Sauk County.

Who do we contact to fix these–the State Cartographer's Office?
My goodness the town of Vernon is now a village? Soon every remaining township in SE Wisconsin will be. Yet to this day the Town of Brookfield which is basically a village in many ways still not incorporated.

They've tried multiple times.  But the Cities of Brookfield, Sussex and Waukesha usually object so the DOA has denied it.

SEWIGuy

Don't know if this has been posted, but the Milwaukee portion of Miller Park Way will be renamed "Brewers Blvd."  However the West Milwaukee portion will stay Miller Park Way.

https://www.wisn.com/article/part-of-miller-park-way-to-get-name-change/35219257#

What they should have done is name the highway portion (between I-94 and National Avenue) Brewers Blvd., but revert the portion south of there back to its original name - 43rd Street. 

FightingIrish

Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 27, 2021, 10:11:19 AM
Don't know if this has been posted, but the Milwaukee portion of Miller Park Way will be renamed "Brewers Blvd."  However the West Milwaukee portion will stay Miller Park Way.

https://www.wisn.com/article/part-of-miller-park-way-to-get-name-change/35219257#

What they should have done is name the highway portion (between I-94 and National Avenue) Brewers Blvd., but revert the portion south of there back to its original name - 43rd Street.
West Milwaukee declined to change the name.

SM-N986U1


SEWIGuy

Quote from: FightingIrish on January 27, 2021, 02:29:18 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 27, 2021, 10:11:19 AM
Don't know if this has been posted, but the Milwaukee portion of Miller Park Way will be renamed "Brewers Blvd."  However the West Milwaukee portion will stay Miller Park Way.

https://www.wisn.com/article/part-of-miller-park-way-to-get-name-change/35219257#

What they should have done is name the highway portion (between I-94 and National Avenue) Brewers Blvd., but revert the portion south of there back to its original name - 43rd Street.
West Milwaukee declined to change the name.

SM-N986U1




Right I know.  Which they did for short term reasons that in the long term is going to seem really wierd.

The Ghostbuster

Brewers Boulevard? I think they should either keep the Miller Parkway name, or change the name to Stadium Parkway, given that the freeway-turned-parkway was the Stadium South Freeway from 1953 to 1998.



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