ARC Rail Tunnel Cancelled - PANYNJ Toll Revenue Safe

[mightyace]

The expensive, dead-end NJ Transit ARC tunnel to has been killed by NJ Governor Christie.  PANYNJ toll facilities will not have to bear burden of portion of financing. ($3 billion)

Christie says ARC rail tunnel required "blank check," reaffirms cancellation - tollers dodge bullet

Below are the first two links I found on Google:
(These links do not necessarily reflect my views on the project nor are intended to either support or criticize the decision.)

ARC Tunnel canceled; reaction predictable

ARC Project Definitively Cancelled, But There Are Other Ways to Improve New Jersey's Transit Future

[froggie]

Again, Tollroadsnews shows why they're not to be taken seriously.  First, by blatantly mixing fact with opinion (and often they don't even cite the source for the fact).  And in this case, the $3B from PANYNJ was already dedicated, and now will likely be dedicated elsewhere.  Second, it was the state of New Jersey, not bridge/tunnel users, who was on the hook for any cost overruns.

[NJRoadfan]

The NJ Turnpike Authority raised tolls to kick in some cash for this project as well. We'll see what happens with that cash. Some are calling for the proposed 2012 toll increase to be delayed/eliminated.

[Alps]

Again, Tollroadsnews shows why they're not to be taken seriously.  First, by blatantly mixing fact with opinion (and often they don't even cite the source for the fact).  And in this case, the $3B from PANYNJ was already dedicated, and now will likely be dedicated elsewhere.  Second, it was the state of New Jersey, not bridge/tunnel users, who was on the hook for any cost overruns.

See, that's what I said in the Yahoo groups, and the OP jumped down my throat for it.  But you're exactly right, they ignore fact versus opinion, and sometimes ignore fact altogether.

[J N Winkler]

Why do you all use the third person plural in speaking about TollRoadsNews?  All I have heard suggests that it is just one 70-year-old guy in his basement in Frederick, Maryland.

[Alps]

Why do you all use the third person plural in speaking about TollRoadsNews?  All I have heard suggests that it is just one 70-year-old guy in his basement in Frederick, Maryland.

Winkler, I may have had misgivings about you, but this is damned funny.

[mightyace]

Well, the TollRoadsNews article may be its usual mix of fact and editorial.  (like many other media outlets)

However, it is where I first found this news item.  So, TRN is good for something, at least.  

EDIT:
And it did get you guys talking! 

[froggie]

See, that's what I said in the Yahoo groups, and the OP jumped down my throat for it.

Which Yahoo group?  Wasn't any of the ones I (used to) follow.

However, it is where I first found this news item.  So, TRN is good for something, at least.

Not surprising.  You're not in the Northeast, and I'm guessing you don't follow urban or transportation planning very much.  I'd seen it from no less than 4 sources by the time TRN got around to it, nevermind Christie's "first cancelling" of the ARC 2 weeks ago, which spurred discussions between him, USDOT Sec. LaHood, and others.

[mightyace]

^^^

I checked Trains Magazine's website because I thought I might have missed it there.  However, they don't yet have it on their Newswire yet!  That's a major dropping of the ball by them as this is a much bigger rail story than highways or transportation in general.

[PAHighways]

Well, the TollRoadsNews article may be its usual mix of fact and editorial.  (like many other media outlets)

There was that one "fact" they had incorrect about firings within the PTC which was actually Tom Corbett opening an investigation.  But TollRoadOldNews did scoop everyone else!

Then when it came to an actual fact such as the The Pennsylvania Turnpike being able to be heard on the PTC website, it was two weeks late.

[J N Winkler]

I remember a TollRoadsNews article from years ago which slammed the MdTA for being a secretive organization--at a time when MdTA was the only turnpike authority regularly making its construction plans available on the Web.  (Online construction plan availability for MdTA now stretches back only to this past January, but MdTA started putting plans on the Web in mid-2003 and those early plans sets remained available for years.)

To be fair to the basement dweller, however, TollRoadsNews is and has been the best one-stop shopping point for scuttlebutt on Spanish toll road companies' activities in the US.  Sometimes it is helpful to have early and bad information in hand when looking for the later and more reliable information.

[mightyace]

I'll have to do a little more research on it.

But, I got my issue of Railpace magazine over the weekend.  (It is a regional magazine concentrating on railroading in the Northeast and adjoining areas.)

In it, the editorial talked about Gov. Christie halting construction on October 7th!  I guess the 28th was killing of the project as a whole.

When I get a chance, I do some looking at get a better timeline on this process.

[J N Winkler]

Wikipedia does have an article on the ARC, which discusses the cancellation in some detail.  Christie stopped construction on October 7, but was persuaded (by LaHood and others) to take some time to reconsider.  He did and this is the result.  I don't know transport geography in the Manhattan area well enough to comment on Samuel's criticisms of the ARC.  ("ARC" is a silly name anyway--"Access to the Region's Core" sounds pretentious and the initialism conflicts with that of the Appalachian Regional Commission.  If they had called it "Palisades Tran-Hudson Tunnel," I would have known what it was straight away.)

[agentsteel53]

yes, but "ARC" is an easily pronounced acronym, while "PTHT" sounds like a Bronx cheer. 

[Alps]

The problem with ARC is that while it provides parallel capacity for NJ Transit, it doesn't solve other connectivity problems - for example, connecting Penn Station to Grand Central Station, or connecting freight rail across the river, or just providing a relief corridor for Amtrak so that the original tunnels can be worked on and so that every little incident doesn't generate hours of delays.

[mightyace]

Exactly.

Or, as the editorial in Railpace said, "Sometimes a [dumbed down] tunnel is worse than none."

(I'll fix that quote later.)

[Alps]

Counterpoint - my boss's position is to build what you can now and leave room to improve later.  I'm in favor of ARC, but I'm also in favor of Christie's stance that we shouldn't be on the hook for potential billions in liability.  I don't know what offers were put on the table in the last few weeks that he rejected.

[mightyace]

I'd agree with you if the final ARC proposal wasn't so dain-bramaged.

If they could easily tie into the Amtrak ex-PRR tunnels and build a link to Grand Central and add local holding tracks, then yes, build it now.

But, the plan would have made it nearly impossible to do these things.  Just to the east of the stub-end terminal is one of the main water supply tunnels for NYC.  Plus, the terminal is would be farther underground than the existing Penn Station.

[Duke87]

Just to point something out: while the ARC would not have been in any position to connect with LIRR/Amtrak or with existing Grand Central (building a tunnel that shallow through the middle of Manhattan is simply not feasible), it would have been in perfect position to have a potential through connection made to the East Side Access station at Grand Central which is still under construction.

Besides, it could have done a lot even without that connection. Currently trains coming from north of Penn Station do not have a connection to get there and all terminate in Hoboken, requiring an additional ride on PATH or a ferry to get into Manhattan, or (and this only recently became possible) transferring to another NJ Transit train at Secaucus. All of the people using those lines would have their commute that much shorter and that much more convenient with that connection built.

And the argument about not being able to afford the cost overruns is silly. With the resulting increase in property values and boost to the state's economy, they would have that much more tax revenue to pay off the bonds with. Not to mention that all the money which has already been spent cannot be gotten back and is now officially wasted. If the state wanted to cancel the project, they should have done it before ground was broken.
...although, I still don't get how New York was getting away with providing exactly zero dollars of funding for it.

One more thing: canceling ARC is not a good way to pump money into the transportation fund. Let's think about something here... New Jersey's gas taxes are among the lowest in the nation. New Jersey is short on money for road maintenance and construction. I hypothesize that the two are related. So, obvious solution? Not considered because Christie absolutely refuses to raise taxes in any way. I generally prefer spending cuts to tax hikes, but this is taking that principle too far.

[sammack]

Just to point something out: while the ARC would not have been in any position to connect with LIRR/Amtrak or with existing Grand Central (building a tunnel that shallow through the middle of Manhattan is simply not feasible), it would have been in perfect position to have a potential through connection made to the East Side Access station at Grand Central which is still under construction.

Besides, it could have done a lot even without that connection. Currently trains coming from north of Penn Station do not have a connection to get there and all terminate in Hoboken, requiring an additional ride on PATH or a ferry to get into Manhattan, or (and this only recently became possible) transferring to another NJ Transit train at Secaucus. All of the people using those lines would have their commute that much shorter and that much more convenient with that connection built.

And the argument about not being able to afford the cost overruns is silly. With the resulting increase in property values and boost to the state's economy, they would have that much more tax revenue to pay off the bonds with. Not to mention that all the money which has already been spent cannot be gotten back and is now officially wasted. If the state wanted to cancel the project, they should have done it before ground was broken.
...although, I still don't get how New York was getting away with providing exactly zero dollars of funding for it.

One more thing: canceling ARC is not a good way to pump money into the transportation fund. Let's think about something here... New Jersey's gas taxes are among the lowest in the nation. New Jersey is short on money for road maintenance and construction. I hypothesize that the two are related. So, obvious solution? Not considered because Christie absolutely refuses to raise taxes in any way. I generally prefer spending cuts to tax hikes, but this is taking that principle too far.

Thank you for covering all the bases.

This WILL be back in 20 or so years, much more expensive and long after Chrisite is gone