US 93 In Arizona Progress

[Scott5114]

It looks like the AADT counts between I-40 and Wickenburg are in the 4000-5000 range. Quite a bit lower than I was expecting.

I feel like this says something about Phoenix but I'm not sure what.

[Max Rockatansky]

Outside of those annoying freight vehicles there is hardly any passenger traffic out there.  What reason would someone be hanging out north of Wickenburg day to day anyways?  Maybe camping out in the Burro Creek Wilderness?  The mine in Bagdad is closer to Prescott and doesn't much traffic to US 93.

[brad2971]

It looks like the AADT counts between I-40 and Wickenburg are in the 4000-5000 range. Quite a bit lower than I was expecting.

I feel like this says something about Phoenix but I'm not sure what.

No, it's double that, per 2023 ADOT traffic counts:  https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/2024-07/2023-AADT-PUBLICATION_USRoutes.pdf

[vdeane]

Remember when we built interstates on the basis of connecting places, and not just on the basis of existing routes being clogged?

[Max Rockatansky]

A fine argument when there is a clear corridor of population and traffic.  Trouble is there is a whole lot of barren desert lands between Kingman and Wickenburg.  I have no objections to completing I-11 south to Kingman (although the interchange at I-40 is probably all that is needed).

[jdbx]

Chiming in, since I saw the horse twitch a little...  Having done the Las Vegas <-> Phoenix drive several times recently, the only big issues were having to contend with the lights and routing through Kingman, which is being corrected right now, and the slog through Wickenburg.  The 2-lane segment through the Joshua Tree Forest was really not that bad.  I would consider a bypass of Wickenburg and maybe a directional interchange at Loop 303 to be the most worthwhile improvements.

[Rothman]

It looks like the AADT counts between I-40 and Wickenburg are in the 4000-5000 range. Quite a bit lower than I was expecting.

I feel like this says something about Phoenix but I'm not sure what.

No, it's double that, per 2023 ADOT traffic counts:  https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/2024-07/2023-AADT-PUBLICATION_USRoutes.pdf

The future AADT projections are telling.

[Bobby5280]

Tickets for flights from Phoenix to Las Vegas can be pretty cheap. And the flight itself may be a little over an hour long. Anyone from Phoenix going to Vegas to gamble would likely fly.

But...as the Las Vegas metro continues to grow the local economy will diversify more and more. I think that is what will eventually load US-93 with more vehicle traffic.

[Rothman]

Tickets for flights from Phoenix to Las Vegas can be pretty cheap. And the flight itself may be a little over an hour long. Anyone from Phoenix going to Vegas to gamble would likely fly.

But...as the Las Vegas metro continues to grow the local economy will diversify more and more. I think that is what will eventually load US-93 with more vehicle traffic.

Add the travel to and from the airports...

[Max Rockatansky]

Amusingly the only time I've ever flown into Las Vegas was part of layover departing Fresno.  I never had the occasion to ever fly in from Phoenix.

[Rothman]

Flew in and out of Sky Harbor in 1992 or so.

[vdeane]

Tickets for flights from Phoenix to Las Vegas can be pretty cheap. And the flight itself may be a little over an hour long. Anyone from Phoenix going to Vegas to gamble would likely fly.

But...as the Las Vegas metro continues to grow the local economy will diversify more and more. I think that is what will eventually load US-93 with more vehicle traffic.

It's only 300 miles.  I don't understand why someone would fly such a short distance.  Once you factor in getting to the airport, checking in, and clearing security, it's not much shorter, and it's much more of a hassle.

[Henry]

Tickets for flights from Phoenix to Las Vegas can be pretty cheap. And the flight itself may be a little over an hour long. Anyone from Phoenix going to Vegas to gamble would likely fly.

But...as the Las Vegas metro continues to grow the local economy will diversify more and more. I think that is what will eventually load US-93 with more vehicle traffic.

It's only 300 miles.  I don't understand why someone would fly such a short distance.  Once you factor in getting to the airport, checking in, and clearing security, it's not much shorter, and it's much more of a hassle.

When I was living in Los Angeles, I always drove to Las Vegas. Around the same distance, plus I'd rather use my gas money than blow a significantly larger amount on a plane ticket.

[Max Rockatansky]

Tickets for flights from Phoenix to Las Vegas can be pretty cheap. And the flight itself may be a little over an hour long. Anyone from Phoenix going to Vegas to gamble would likely fly.

But...as the Las Vegas metro continues to grow the local economy will diversify more and more. I think that is what will eventually load US-93 with more vehicle traffic.

It's only 300 miles.  I don't understand why someone would fly such a short distance.  Once you factor in getting to the airport, checking in, and clearing security, it's not much shorter, and it's much more of a hassle.

I never considered flying for work purposes unless the drive was more than six hours.  All the airport shenanigans didn't make it worth it unless the drive was longer than that. 

[brad2971]

It looks like the AADT counts between I-40 and Wickenburg are in the 4000-5000 range. Quite a bit lower than I was expecting.

I feel like this says something about Phoenix but I'm not sure what.

No, it's double that, per 2023 ADOT traffic counts:  https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/2024-07/2023-AADT-PUBLICATION_USRoutes.pdf

The future AADT projections are telling.

So are the current traffic counts for the SR 68-I-40 section of US 93, as compared to the rest of the route. Now that the first two ramps of the I-40/US 93 interchange are under construction (WB 40-NB 93 and SB 93-EB 40), we're going to get a good idea of what traffic will be like the rest of the decade. Either the SB 93-WB 40 and EB 40-NB 93 ramps are going to be needed fairly quickly, or they won't be needed for at least another generation.

[Bobby5280]

It's only 300 miles.  I don't understand why someone would fly such a short distance.  Once you factor in getting to the airport, checking in, and clearing security, it's not much shorter, and it's much more of a hassle.

Some of the flights can be had for pretty cheap. Casinos in Las Vegas still provide all sorts of discounts and comps for frequent customers, including free air fare.

If I lived that short of a distance from Las Vegas I'd still probably prefer to drive. There are other things to see and do in Las Vegas that aren't on the strip. It's more convenient to visit those places if you have your own vehicle.

[Max Rockatansky]

I think a lot of you are also assuming that everyone goes to Las Vegas to gamble, drink heavily or partake in both at some point. 

[Scott5114]

It looks like the AADT counts between I-40 and Wickenburg are in the 4000-5000 range. Quite a bit lower than I was expecting.

I feel like this says something about Phoenix but I'm not sure what.

No, it's double that, per 2023 ADOT traffic counts:  https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/2024-07/2023-AADT-PUBLICATION_USRoutes.pdf

I think I'm looking at one-direction counts and you're looking at combined NB and SB. In any event, it's lower than I was expecting.

A fine argument when there is a clear corridor of population and traffic.  Trouble is there is a whole lot of barren desert lands between Kingman and Wickenburg.  I have no objections to completing I-11 south to Kingman (although the interchange at I-40 is probably all that is needed).

Upgrading US-93 between Hoover Dam and Kingman should be done for safety reasons, if nothing else. While it's not all that congested, it's one of those corridors where much of it is flat and empty so you get people going 80+. If someone randomly hits their brakes to hang a left or whips out from a side road in front of traffic it can cause some scary moments. That random traffic signal for the gas stations in the middle of nowhere isn't doing anyone any favors either.

Similarly, I think it would be wise to continue upgrading the two-lane portions to at least four-lane divided to provide more opportunity for passing. The traffic counts may not be high enough for full freeway, but they're high enough for head-on collisions due to someone getting impatient and pulling a dumbass move.

[pderocco]

Being accustomed to the way California deals with roads, I can't help comparing US-93 to US-395. Over the past few decades, they've put a lot of effort into fourlaning US-395 from Inyokern up to Lee Vining, and it's now just about done. I don't personally think US-93 has to become an interstate, but it really should be four lanes divided all the way to either AZ-303 or I-10. Parts of 395 have higher traffic counts, parts have lower, but I'm pretty sure 395 has fewer trucks, and those should weigh heavily in the calculation of whether 93 needs to be upgraded. So I'm most interested in seeing the southern part of 93 upgraded.

[Rothman]

I think a lot of you are also assuming that everyone goes to Las Vegas to gamble, drink heavily or partake in both at some point. 

Although I did neither in Las Vegas when I visited, I think that the assumption that most people go to Vegas to do so is pretty well-founded.

[elsmere241]

Although I did neither in Las Vegas when I visited, I think that the assumption that most people go to Vegas to do so is pretty well-founded.

I lived there for about a month (in 1997).  That's pretty much all there was to do there.  (That's when I totaled my car in the Arizona desert, on what I thought would be a little excursion.)

[Max Rockatansky]

The majority of my trips out there was originated in work purposes.  If gambling was your thing you had way better odds in places like Laughlin.

[ClassicHasClass]

I think a lot of you are also assuming that everyone goes to Las Vegas to gamble, drink heavily or partake in both at some point. 

I go to play pinball.

[jmacswimmer]

FWIW When I visited Vegas this past May the main goal was just to say we've done it as well as use it as a "base of operations" for checking out Death Valley National Park & Hoover Dam. We took a picture at the welcome sign, walked portions of the strip & Fremont, hung out at a rooftop brewery for a casual brew, and had dinner + saw the "o" cirque du soleil show at the Bellagio, but stayed away from gambling + heavy drinking. So you can count me as a data point for someone who went to Vegas not to primarily do those 2 things...maybe if it had been a few years earlier!

(We also didn't fly in/out of LAS, but rather PHX since Vegas was one stop as part of a larger trip. Despite LAS being right next to the strip, I've heard that traversing that short distance can be a pain at times.)

As for US 93, agreed with others that the main problems are the Kingman interchange (which is now actively being addressed) and the remaining 2-lane portions thru Joshua Forest. I remember the semis magically speeding up as soon as the short passing lanes would open (combined with my rental car having a fairly weak engine), and 2-lane overtaking was not an option with how busy the road was. While I think it could eventually make some sense to connect I-11 into AZ 85 and continue to I-8 (and open up a Phoenix bypass route for, say, Nogales-Tucson-Vegas traffic), the far more pressing safety need is to dualize the remaining 2-lane portions of US 93. I remember reading about a fatal head-on collision from an overtaking attempt not long after I had driven that stretch.

[The Ghostbuster]

If they complete Interstate 11 to Kingman, and decide to forgo the Interstate 40-to-Wickenburg segment, maybe they should truncate US 93 to its interchange with Interstate 15 in Garnet, NV, and renumber US 93 south of Interstate 40 back to AZ 93.