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[Scott5114]

The Transportation Commission is considering at their meeting on Monday a proposal to decommission the section of SH-3 (Northwest Expressway) between the Kilpatrick Turnpike and SH-74, turning the road over to Oklahoma City. SH-3 will be rerouted to concur with SH-4 (apparently the ODOT terminology for this is that "SH-3 will become a follow route") to I-40, and then follow I-40 to I-44. The portion of Northwest Expressway between SH-4 and the turnpike will become a new incarnation of SH-3A.

[rte66man]

The Transportation Commission is considering at their meeting on Monday a proposal to decommission the section of SH-3 (Northwest Expressway) between the Kilpatrick Turnpike and SH-74, turning the road over to Oklahoma City. SH-3 will be rerouted to concur with SH-4 (apparently the ODOT terminology for this is that "SH-3 will become a follow route") to I-40, and then follow I-40 to I-44. The portion of Northwest Expressway between SH-4 and the turnpike will become a new incarnation of SH-3A.

OKC needs to have their head examined over this.  That stretch of road is highly substandard and not just the pavement. It will cost millions to bring it up to what a 6-lane arterial should be.

[bugo]

If OK 3 is rerouted to follow OK 4 and I-40, it should just stay on I-40 all the way past the I-40/I-240 interchange. It would make more sense.

[Scott5114]

The Transportation Commission is considering at their meeting on Monday a proposal to decommission the section of SH-3 (Northwest Expressway) between the Kilpatrick Turnpike and SH-74, turning the road over to Oklahoma City. SH-3 will be rerouted to concur with SH-4 (apparently the ODOT terminology for this is that "SH-3 will become a follow route") to I-40, and then follow I-40 to I-44. The portion of Northwest Expressway between SH-4 and the turnpike will become a new incarnation of SH-3A.

OKC needs to have their head examined over this.  That stretch of road is highly substandard and not just the pavement. It will cost millions to bring it up to what a 6-lane arterial should be.

I imagine OKC wants it because it's substandard. If OkDOT has it, who knows when it'll get upgraded? If the city owns it, they can upgrade it with city funds and make sure it gets done.

OkDOT and OKC often find themselves at loggerheads because OkDOT simply does not understand OKC's needs beyond the freeway system. As a result, OKC is already planning to tear up and change parts of the new OKC Boulevard once it's turned over to them, and it's not even finished yet. But OkDOT won't build what the city wants, so there's a lot of waste going on.

[rte66man]

The work order for resurfacing NW Expressway from Portland west to the Kilpatrick was started on 5/15.

   http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contractadmin/pdfs/const_rep.pdf  p114

I've not seen any evidence of anything being done. Anyone?

As to the OKC Boulevard last segment, worked started 2/12/2018 and has 531 days for completion. That was adjusted from 445 days.  About 83% complete.

[Scott5114]

Of course OKC is not totally blameless on the design of the boulevard either. They asked OkDOT to build the intersection at Oklahoma Avenue where it is, assuming they'd be able to acquire ROW to connect Oklahoma straight through. U-Haul, which owns the relevant real estate, wouldn't deal with the city. So now they're going to have to relocate Oklahoma to the west side of the U-Haul building as soon as they take possession of the boulevard, tearing up the existing intersection and moving it a few hundred feet west.

[Plutonic Panda]

Though no funding is currently identified, OKDOT plans to work with the OTA to build a new interchange along the Muskogee Turnpike near Coweta.

https://sh-51-poe.hub.arcgis.com/pages/86b0627a812f4fcb92c5a0daa586a51e

I never knew that turnpike was designated as SH-351. I recall seeing a poster on this board mention no OK turnpikes were signed.

[Scott5114]

I never knew that turnpike was designated as SH-351. I recall seeing a poster on this board mention no OK turnpikes were signed.

It wasn't until 2014. At the same time, the Creek Turnpike was designated SH-364. I-44 covers three turnpikes, and US-412 covers two.  Besides 351 and 364, there are no other turnpikes carrying SH numbers. (That is to say, the following turnpikes lack numbers: Chickasaw, Indian Nation, Kickapoo, Kilpatrick, and the Bailey and Cimarron spurs.)

[Plutonic Panda]

I never knew that turnpike was designated as SH-351. I recall seeing a poster on this board mention no OK turnpikes were signed.

It wasn't until 2014. At the same time, the Creek Turnpike was designated SH-364. I-44 covers three turnpikes, and US-412 covers two.  Besides 351 and 364, there are no other turnpikes carrying SH numbers. (That is to say, the following turnpikes lack numbers: Chickasaw, Indian Nation, Kickapoo, Kilpatrick, and the Bailey and Cimarron spurs.)

I knew about I-44 but for some reason US-412 completely slipped my mind even after discussing removing the tolls on it.

[In_Correct]

Keep Tolls.

[Plutonic Panda]

Keep Tolls.

Tulsa needs at least one toll free interstate route.

[In_Correct]

Keep Tolls.

Tulsa needs at least one toll free interstate route.

That one can be an extension of Interstate 45.

[Plutonic Panda]

Keep Tolls.

Tulsa needs at least one toll free interstate route.

That one can be an extension of Interstate 45.

If it’s ever built. Oklahoma is not exactly flush with cash. Hell, I’d be happy just to see OKDOT place “future”  interstate markers at this point.

[US 89]

I never knew that turnpike was designated as SH-351. I recall seeing a poster on this board mention no OK turnpikes were signed.

It wasn't until 2014. At the same time, the Creek Turnpike was designated SH-364. I-44 covers three turnpikes, and US-412 covers two.  Besides 351 and 364, there are no other turnpikes carrying SH numbers. (That is to say, the following turnpikes lack numbers: Chickasaw, Indian Nation, Kickapoo, Kilpatrick, and the Bailey and Cimarron spurs.)

Don’t forget the under-construction Gilcrease Turnpike, which is already designated SH-344.

[Scott5114]

I'm going through the ODOT standard drawings (yes! ODOT has standards! Weird, huh?) and found something wacky I'm pretty sure is an error: Exit tabs are all specified using vanilla Series E, except when the exit number is two digits without a suffix, in which case the exit number (and not the word Exit) are Series E(M). What?

[In_Correct]

Keep Tolls.

Tulsa needs at least one toll free interstate route.

That one can be an extension of Interstate 45.

If it’s ever built. Oklahoma is not exactly flush with cash. Hell, I’d be happy just to see OKDOT place “future”  interstate markers at this point.

Oklahoma Is Not Exactly Flush With Cash. ... is a perfect reason for them to have Toll Roads and to build more of them. And then The Necessary Superhighway can be upgraded mostly untolled into Oklahoma.   The Necessary Superhighway is Interstate 45, Interstate 345, U.S. 75, U.S. 69, The Jefferson Highway, Mississippi Avenue, and perhaps many other names and designations also. Cash is not the only problem of why they have not completed it. Backlash is another reason. Tolled Bypasses might be necessary for the towns.

[bugo]

Oklahoma Is Not Exactly Flush With Cash. ... is a perfect reason for them to have Toll Roads and to build more of them. And then The Necessary Superhighway can be upgraded mostly untolled into Oklahoma.   The Necessary Superhighway is Interstate 45, Interstate 345, U.S. 75, U.S. 69, The Jefferson Highway, Mississippi Avenue, and perhaps many other names and designations also. Cash is not the only problem of why they have not completed it. Backlash is another reason. Tolled Bypasses might be necessary for the towns.

It's because of the cheapassed conservative rednecks in this state who don't want to pay taxes because they might help somebody other than themselves. Taxes need to go way up, especially the corporate tax on energy companies.

[Plutonic Panda]

Oklahoma Is Not Exactly Flush With Cash. ... is a perfect reason for them to have Toll Roads and to build more of them. And then The Necessary Superhighway can be upgraded mostly untolled into Oklahoma.   The Necessary Superhighway is Interstate 45, Interstate 345, U.S. 75, U.S. 69, The Jefferson Highway, Mississippi Avenue, and perhaps many other names and designations also. Cash is not the only problem of why they have not completed it. Backlash is another reason. Tolled Bypasses might be necessary for the towns.

It's because of the cheapassed conservative rednecks in this state who don't want to pay taxes because they might help somebody other than themselves. Taxes need to go way up, especially the corporate tax on energy companies.

Yes this

[The Ghostbuster]

While I don't necessary disagree with the "cheapassed conservative rednecks" comment, building new roads as toll roads may be the only way new roads in Oklahoma (and elsewhere) get constructed. I am skeptical of "just-raise-the-gas-tax" arguments. I would not be surprised if gas taxes are eventually eliminated completely, in favor of other types of fees to pay for transportation improvements.

[Scott5114]

The tax that bugo is referring to is not the gas tax, but rather the tax on oil production. This tax was lowered from 7% to 2% in 2014, signed into law during the term of Gov. Mary Fallin, during a trough in oil prices which impacted the profitability of Oklahoma oil companies. The resulting loss of revenue was one of many factors leading to the education crisis a few years later. Conservatives say that the tax cut incentivizes oil production and keeps jobs in Oklahoma, while liberals and progressives point out that the oil companies can't really pick and choose where the oil is (you can't just choose to drill for oil in a lower-tax state), and they didn't just leave it in the ground when the tax rate was 7%.

[Plutonic Panda]

While I don't necessary disagree with the "cheapassed conservative rednecks" comment, building new roads as toll roads may be the only way new roads in Oklahoma (and elsewhere) get constructed. I am skeptical of "just-raise-the-gas-tax" arguments. I would not be surprised if gas taxes are eventually eliminated completely, in favor of other types of fees to pay for transportation improvements.

So how do states like Texas, California, Arizona, Utah, etc. all build massive roads without tolls left and right? The answer is obvious. More taxes go to roads. Either the state needs to raise the taxes to fund road projects or they aren’t allocating their funding right. I don’t believe Oklahoma is the latter, if you know anything about state politics.

In general, Oklahoma does have a certain voter base that thinks taxation is theft and they shouldn’t pay for a road “they’ll never use.”  Hopefully this years redistricting initiative might sway the unbalanced rural favoring of politics Oklahoma experiences.

[In_Correct]

Raising Taxes takes too much time.

[Scott5114]

In general, Oklahoma does have a certain voter base that thinks taxation is theft and they shouldn’t pay for a road “they’ll never use.”  Hopefully this years redistricting initiative might sway the unbalanced rural favoring of politics Oklahoma experiences.

I wouldn't count on that. Oklahoma Republicans are still rattled that they lost the fifth district in 2018, even though they won it back in 2020. I'm expecting the 2022 maps to slice and dice the metro areas even more so that they get stuck to unrelated rural areas, dividing and conquering the urban areas so they have no power to overcome the rural voters. That is, something similar to Utah's congressional districts.

[Bobby5280]

Yep. "Cracking and packing" style gerrymandering is definitely a big tactic in redistricting. Nevertheless Oklahoma's rural areas are bleeding population at an increasing rate. I get kind of saddened when visiting small towns like Temple and Walters, seeing various businesses that have closed. There's only so much the GOP is going to be able to do at blunting the growing political power of growing metros like OKC and Tulsa.

It's a long shot, but there is a chance the federal government may change the national gasoline tax to a percentage-based rate that goes up or down with overall gasoline prices. For the longest time the rate has been flat.

Oklahoma did a modest increase of gasoline taxes to re-direct into education funding since teachers were leaving the state in droves. Our gasoline taxes are still much lower than other states, such as California.

[Plutonic Panda]

I’m not sure how I feel about California’s gas tax. I’d have less of a problem with it if trusted the state government but I don’t want to get too political so I’ll leave it at that.