News:

The AARoads Wiki is live! Come check it out!

Main Menu

I-69 Ohio River Bridge

Started by truejd, August 05, 2010, 10:32:59 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

thefro

http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/funding-i69-construction-uncertain-indiana-kentucky-57197/

Here's a pretty inaccurate story from WTIU, the PBS station in Bloomington, IN, mainly focusing on the Evansville bridge with some footage and interviews from the I-69 conference in Madisonville, KY.  They do compare Kentucky's I-69 construction to Indiana's and it's pretty funny.

Basically:
1) Acts like Kentucky's I-69 costs are so much cheaper than Indiana's just because they "aren't building new roads", no mention of Kentucky's roads already being near-Interstate quality parkways.
2) Says there's "no money for I-69 left in Indiana" when the state budget has a $400 million "Major Moves 2020" fund set aside.
3) Says only 3 states are working on I-69 (not the case) and implies all the others completely stopped working on it.
4) Uses a graphic from Wikipedia showing the current state of the road to show the state of the road once the segment to Bloomington is complete
5) Implies that Mike Pence is going to install tolls on the road to Indianapolis to fund I-69
6) Says "we don't know what Indiana is going to do to finish the road" when Section 5 is already up for bid as a public/private partnership
7) Implies that Evansville doesn't care about finishing the road to Indianapolis but wants their bridge.
8) Shows the 8th District Congressmen in Indiana who is part of the I-69 congress acting like they can't get federal money (not sure what the point of him being in the I-69 caucus is!)  I'm guessing he may have been asked a question about funding the road to Indy and not the bridge.
9) Implies that no federal money is being used for I-69 construction


vdeane

Isn't it cheaper to make minor upgrade to existing roads than to build brand new ones though?  The only new alignment I-69 in KY is the Ohio River Bridge.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

mukade

Quote from: thefro on October 19, 2013, 09:30:04 AM
http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/funding-i69-construction-uncertain-indiana-kentucky-57197/

Here's a pretty inaccurate story from WTIU, the PBS station in Bloomington, IN, mainly focusing on the Evansville bridge with some footage and interviews from the I-69 conference in Madisonville, KY.  They do compare Kentucky's I-69 construction to Indiana's and it's pretty funny.

Basically:
1) Acts like Kentucky's I-69 costs are so much cheaper than Indiana's just because they "aren't building new roads", no mention of Kentucky's roads already being near-Interstate quality parkways.
2) Says there's "no money for I-69 left in Indiana" when the state budget has a $400 million "Major Moves 2020" fund set aside.
3) Says only 3 states are working on I-69 (not the case) and implies all the others completely stopped working on it.
4) Uses a graphic from Wikipedia showing the current state of the road to show the state of the road once the segment to Bloomington is complete
5) Implies that Mike Pence is going to install tolls on the road to Indianapolis to fund I-69
6) Says "we don't know what Indiana is going to do to finish the road" when Section 5 is already up for bid as a public/private partnership
7) Implies that Evansville doesn't care about finishing the road to Indianapolis but wants their bridge.
8) Shows the 8th District Congressmen in Indiana who is part of the I-69 congress acting like they can't get federal money (not sure what the point of him being in the I-69 caucus is!)  I'm guessing he may have been asked a question about funding the road to Indy and not the bridge.
9) Implies that no federal money is being used for I-69 construction

Also, the caption under the picture, "A barge moves across the Ohio River near Evansville. Right now, there is no bridge to connect Interstate 69 from Kentucky to Indiana" is misleading. Someone unfamiliar with the area may think there is no bridge to Kentucky at all in the Evansville area. The mayor's cul-de-sac comment adds to that confusion.

Quote from: vdeane on October 19, 2013, 12:27:07 PM
Isn't it cheaper to make minor upgrade to existing roads than to build brand new ones though?  The only new alignment I-69 in KY is the Ohio River Bridge.
Of course, but only Kentucky has freeways to upgrade. This is eluding to why Indiana didn't select the US 41/I-70 route which is very indirect and would still have been very costly.

Grzrd

Quote from: Grzrd on October 14, 2013, 04:44:40 PM
This article

The above-linked October 14 article discusses the involvement of Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke and President and CEO of the Chamber of Commerce of Southwestern Indiana Christy Gillenwater in BridgeLink:

Quote
Proponents of building an Interstate 69 bridge across the river between Henderson and Evansville said Monday they want to see the span completed within eight years.
"That's our objective,"  Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke said at a news conference announcing the creation of BridgeLink, a Henderson-Evansville partnership to campaign for the bridge
....
"We're getting set for what we think will be a very aggressive agenda,"  Christy Gillenwater, president and CEO of the Evansville-based chamber, said. "We all think the bridge will be a reality if we all work aggressively together." ....
The BridgeLink board is made up of representatives from both sides of the river ....
Evansville representatives include Vice Chairman Bob Koch, Winnecke, Gillenwater, Evan Beck, Ed Hafer, Jeff Mulzer, Mike Schopmeyer and Chris Traylor.

Winnecke and Gillenwater both recently included the I-69 Ohio River Bridge as an essential component of the top priority of completing I-69 both north and south of Evansville.  This January 6 article reports that Winnecke discussed the importance of the bridge at a recent Lunch with the Mayor event:

Quote
The first project mentioned is the Interstate 69 Bridge spanning the Ohio River, connecting Indiana and Kentucky. Mayor Winnecke is a board member of BridgeLink, a nonprofit organization launched as a joint effort between The Chamber of Commerce of Southwest Indiana and the Henderson-Henderson County Chamber of Commerce. He called the completion of I-69 northbound and southbound "the most important infrastructure project of our lifetime in this area."

Similarly, Gillenwater recently wrote a January 6 Letter from the president of the Chamber of Commerce in which she expressly includes the I-69 Ohio River Bridge as part of the Chamber's top legislative priority of the completion of I-69:

Quote
The Chamber's board of directors recently adopted a magnanimous 2014 Legislative Agenda ....
Our top 5 legislative priorities in 2014 will be:
1. Completion of Interstate 69: Completion of I-69 from Indianapolis to Kentucky with a bridge over the Ohio River. Without question, the completion of I-69 is the most important issue on the minds of our members. It will take all of us to continue our forward momentum, stemming from decades of previous work by countless regional leaders.

They continue to bang the drum .......

hbelkins

Eight years? I think someone went to Colorado and partook of their new legal substance if they think the bridge can be done in eight years, if the I-265 bridge is a bellwether.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Revive 755

Quote from: vdeane on October 19, 2013, 12:27:07 PM
Isn't it cheaper to make minor upgrade to existing roads than to build brand new ones though?  The only new alignment I-69 in KY is the Ohio River Bridge.

The cheaper option is situation dependent based on type of minor upgrade, available ROW, roadside development, and/or terrain.

silverback1065

Quote from: Grzrd on January 09, 2014, 12:17:33 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on October 14, 2013, 04:44:40 PM
This article

The above-linked October 14 article discusses the involvement of Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke and President and CEO of the Chamber of Commerce of Southwestern Indiana Christy Gillenwater in BridgeLink:

Quote
Proponents of building an Interstate 69 bridge across the river between Henderson and Evansville said Monday they want to see the span completed within eight years.
"That's our objective,"  Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke said at a news conference announcing the creation of BridgeLink, a Henderson-Evansville partnership to campaign for the bridge
....
"We're getting set for what we think will be a very aggressive agenda,"  Christy Gillenwater, president and CEO of the Evansville-based chamber, said. "We all think the bridge will be a reality if we all work aggressively together." ....
The BridgeLink board is made up of representatives from both sides of the river ....
Evansville representatives include Vice Chairman Bob Koch, Winnecke, Gillenwater, Evan Beck, Ed Hafer, Jeff Mulzer, Mike Schopmeyer and Chris Traylor.

Winnecke and Gillenwater both recently included the I-69 Ohio River Bridge as an essential component of the top priority of completing I-69 both north and south of Evansville.  This January 6 article reports that Winnecke discussed the importance of the bridge at a recent Lunch with the Mayor event:

Quote
The first project mentioned is the Interstate 69 Bridge spanning the Ohio River, connecting Indiana and Kentucky. Mayor Winnecke is a board member of BridgeLink, a nonprofit organization launched as a joint effort between The Chamber of Commerce of Southwest Indiana and the Henderson-Henderson County Chamber of Commerce. He called the completion of I-69 northbound and southbound "the most important infrastructure project of our lifetime in this area."

Similarly, Gillenwater recently wrote a January 6 Letter from the president of the Chamber of Commerce in which she expressly includes the I-69 Ohio River Bridge as part of the Chamber's top legislative priority of the completion of I-69:

Quote
The Chamber's board of directors recently adopted a magnanimous 2014 Legislative Agenda ....
Our top 5 legislative priorities in 2014 will be:
1. Completion of Interstate 69: Completion of I-69 from Indianapolis to Kentucky with a bridge over the Ohio River. Without question, the completion of I-69 is the most important issue on the minds of our members. It will take all of us to continue our forward momentum, stemming from decades of previous work by countless regional leaders.

They continue to bang the drum .......

I could think of so many more projects that are more important in Indiana right now than finishing the questionably useful 69

mukade

Quote from: silverback1065 on January 09, 2014, 10:06:58 PM
I could think of so many more projects that are more important in Indiana right now than finishing the questionably useful 69

Completing I-69 including the building the Ohio River bridge is important as the southwestern part of the state was certainly overlooked. This new highway could also relieve some of the traffic from I-65 and would provide a faster route to the southern states. The part of I-69 that has questionable value is between Memhis and Shreveport, IMO. The only other Indiana projects (other than those ones underway like the Illiana, the east-end bridge, and SR 641) comparable in value from a statewide perspective are filling the gaps on US 31 north of Indy and widening I-65 and I-70.

NE2

Quote from: mukade on January 10, 2014, 08:04:11 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 09, 2014, 10:06:58 PM
I could think of so many more projects that are more important in Indiana right now than finishing the questionably useful 69

Completing I-69
Maybe.
Quote from: mukade on January 10, 2014, 08:04:11 AM
including the building the Ohio River bridge
Not really. The tie-up is at the at-grades south of the bridges.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

civeng

#159
Quote from: mukade on January 10, 2014, 08:04:11 AM
Not really. The tie-up is at the at-grades south of the bridges.

So then how would you alleviate it without a bridge?

Not to mention the bridge is routinely down to one lane.

NE2

Quote from: civeng on January 10, 2014, 09:31:58 AM
Quote from: mukade on January 10, 2014, 08:04:11 AM
Not really. The tie-up is at the at-grades south of the bridges.

So then how would you alleviate it without a bridge?
Gee, I wonder. Too bad there's no way to improve traffic flow on a surface road without bypassing it.

PS: that would be a Kentucky project. Hardly the most important in Indiana.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

US 41

I-69 definitely should go on the US 41 bridge. Then I-69 should bypass Henderson to the east. Then they could save some money. Which I happen to think I-69 is a big waste of money in the first place. And no I'm not a bitter Hautian. If I-69 wouldv'e came to Terre Haute I still would've viewed it as a big waste of money, because US 41 is already a good highway from SR 641 - Evansville. Just like the US 41 bridge, it is a perfectly fine bridge. I do however think a Terre Haute bypass (interstate quality) would be a good idea, becasue US 41 in Terre Haute is not a good highway. Multilaning US 50 from Bedford to Washington wouldv'e been the best way. Then Bloomington has their multilane highway from Bloomington to Evansville for a lot less money.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

civeng

Quote from: US 41 on January 10, 2014, 10:27:25 AM
I-69 definitely should go on the US 41 bridge. Then I-69 should bypass Henderson to the east. Then they could save some money. Which I happen to think I-69 is a big waste of money in the first place. And no I'm not a bitter Hautian. If I-69 wouldv'e came to Terre Haute I still would've viewed it as a big waste of money, because US 41 is already a good highway from SR 641 - Evansville. Just like the US 41 bridge, it is a perfectly fine bridge. I do however think a Terre Haute bypass (interstate quality) would be a good idea, becasue US 41 in Terre Haute is not a good highway. Multilaning US 50 from Bedford to Washington wouldv'e been the best way. Then Bloomington has their multilane highway from Bloomington to Evansville for a lot less money.

Maybe right through Audubon Park then?

With one span over 80 years old and traffic being restricted to one lane each on probably a monthly basis, it is time to get a new bridge project started.

US 41

I have a better idea. Upgrade 41 through Henderson.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

Indyroads

if it is going to take that long to do the new bridge then they should post (TEMP) I-69 shields like they did when I-5 was being built. CALTRANS had put up TEMP I-5 shields on SR-99. This way the route can be signed continuously until the toll crossing is done.
And a highway will be there;
    it will be called the Way of Holiness;
    it will be for those who walk on that Way.
The unclean will not journey on it;
    wicked fools will not go about on it.
Isaiah 35:8-10 (NIV)

andy

How about a new US41 bridge a couple of miles upstream and rebuild around east of Henderson? ?
  :biggrin:

seicer

Can we still do "TEMP" routes? When the West Virginia Turnpike was still two lanes, there were "TO I-77" signs in place. (Not sure if I-64 was signed, it was not complete east of Beckley until 1988.)

NE2

Quote from: Sherman Cahal on January 10, 2014, 02:26:07 PM
Can we still do "TEMP" routes? When the West Virginia Turnpike was still two lanes, there were "TO I-77" signs in place. (Not sure if I-64 was signed, it was not complete east of Beckley until 1988.)
They're now FUTURE routes. See I-26 in Asheville, where the eventual plan is to bypass the old freeway to the west.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

US 41

I still say the best idea would've been to have just multilaned US 50 from Bedford - Washington and left everything else alone. It would've been a lot cheaper and more projects in Indiana that are truly needed would've gotten done a lot sooner than they are now.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

hbelkins

Quote from: US 41 on January 10, 2014, 11:44:09 AM
I have a better idea. Upgrade 41 through Henderson.

That's a pretty busy commercial strip. The locals would not allow that to happen if it results in a lot of businesses being closed. It would be awfully hard to do a system of frontage roads and grade-separated crossroads through there. About the best that could be done is RIRO's with U-turns at strategically placed traffic lights.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

silverback1065

Quote from: US 41 on January 10, 2014, 10:27:25 AM
I-69 definitely should go on the US 41 bridge. Then I-69 should bypass Henderson to the east. Then they could save some money. Which I happen to think I-69 is a big waste of money in the first place. And no I'm not a bitter Hautian. If I-69 wouldv'e came to Terre Haute I still would've viewed it as a big waste of money, because US 41 is already a good highway from SR 641 - Evansville. Just like the US 41 bridge, it is a perfectly fine bridge. I do however think a Terre Haute bypass (interstate quality) would be a good idea, becasue US 41 in Terre Haute is not a good highway. Multilaning US 50 from Bedford to Washington wouldv'e been the best way. Then Bloomington has their multilane highway from Bloomington to Evansville for a lot less money.

great if they did that, Indiana wouldn't have to pay a dime.  The us 41 bridge is entirely in kentucky

US 41

Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

andy

Quote from: silverback1065 on January 10, 2014, 08:10:00 PM
great if they did that, Indiana wouldn't have to pay a dime.  The us 41 bridge is entirely in kentucky

Obviously not true. I'd be curious to know if any of the Ohio River bridges have not been significantly cost shared and since Kentucky "owns" a majority of the river most bridges are in KY. The currently under construction Milton-Madison and Louisville East end bridges are cost shared and would not exist otherwise.

Although, the biggest burden of sub-standard a road (current US41) will be mostly on Henderson. Maybe in time Kentucky will be motivated for a bigger share.

My fantasy would be to just quit arguing the inevitable and just build the damned I-69 bridge, move US41 to collocate with I-69 to south of Henderson and rename the existing US41 as a business route.  Further, when/if the older span of current US41 become unserviceable, its designation as a business route might justify reverting to a single two way bridge.






NE2

Quote from: andy on January 10, 2014, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 10, 2014, 08:10:00 PM
great if they did that, Indiana wouldn't have to pay a dime.  The us 41 bridge is entirely in kentucky

Obviously not true.

No, it is true. The old river course is north of the bridge.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

seicer

Seconded. The state line is approximately 1.1 mile north from the northern shore of the Ohio River.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.