News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

North Houston Highway Improvement Project (project resumed March 2023)

Started by MaxConcrete, April 22, 2015, 09:19:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

jbnv

Quote from: Anthony_JK on January 22, 2020, 03:58:57 AM
So, what exactly do the opponents of this project want? Bring back the Pierce Elevated section? Or, blow out all the remaining sections and kill or boulevardize all the freeways in Houston inside of I-610 and the US 59/I-69 corridor? Or, even, rip that down and force I-69 to use the Grand Parkway (TX 99), as what was proposed originally in the TTC-69 tollway proposals?

Probably just to be kings and tell people what they can and cannot do. We saw the same thing with I-49 in Lafayette.
🆕 Louisiana Highways on Twitter | Yes, I like Clearview. Deal with it. | Redos: US | La. | Route Challenge


Plutonic Panda

Quote from: jbnv on January 22, 2020, 09:59:26 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on January 22, 2020, 03:58:57 AM
So, what exactly do the opponents of this project want? Bring back the Pierce Elevated section? Or, blow out all the remaining sections and kill or boulevardize all the freeways in Houston inside of I-610 and the US 59/I-69 corridor? Or, even, rip that down and force I-69 to use the Grand Parkway (TX 99), as what was proposed originally in the TTC-69 tollway proposals?

Probably just to be kings and tell people what they can and cannot do. We saw the same thing with I-49 in Lafayette.
Is that project officially dead!?

Anthony_JK

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 22, 2020, 01:01:56 PM
Quote from: jbnv on January 22, 2020, 09:59:26 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on January 22, 2020, 03:58:57 AM
So, what exactly do the opponents of this project want? Bring back the Pierce Elevated section? Or, blow out all the remaining sections and kill or boulevardize all the freeways in Houston inside of I-610 and the US 59/I-69 corridor? Or, even, rip that down and force I-69 to use the Grand Parkway (TX 99), as what was proposed originally in the TTC-69 tollway proposals?

Probably just to be kings and tell people what they can and cannot do. We saw the same thing with I-49 in Lafayette.
Is that project officially dead!?

More like in limbo until funding is resolved.

Chris

TxDOT released a bunch of visualizations on their Youtube channel today, so it doesn't look like it's dead.









MaxConcrete

Quote from: Chris on January 23, 2020, 12:24:31 PM
TxDOT released a bunch of visualizations on their Youtube channel today, so it doesn't look like it's dead.


Those all appear to be the original animated visualizations from May 2017 (as indicated in the videos) with no updates.

For the downtown, the 2017 animation does not include two major design changes in the most recent schematic: 1) The removal of the connection ramp to/from the SH 288 managed lanes, and 2) the downtown connector now goes under West Dallas Street.

For section 2 (IH-10 to Loop 610), changes have been minimal since 2017 but the video shows U-turns at N.Main (north side) and Cottage Street, and those U-turns have been eliminated.

North of Loop 610, I don't think there have been any changes so the animation should still be accurate.

It does seem strange for the videos to be reposted without the needed updates.

www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

MaxConcrete

The City of Houston is in process of holding meetings to get public feedback, including a meeting this morning which I attended.

All the options are visible on the survey site
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MTHBX5S

Overview

  • Options are extensive, ranging from minor tweaks to major downsizing. Most keep the overall plan intact, especially around downtown, but many options will be costly or infeasible.
  • Fewer options than I expected for downtown, with none on the south side of downtown (south of GRB)
  • The meeting used a sticker-based voting system, which of course is geared for the anti-project folks, and for most options there was much more support for the alternative designs

My Take
The project is not at risk and will probably proceed without major changes. But TxDOT will need to implement some changes to satisfy CoH, and I think a high percentage of options are infeasible or expensive, which may cause some political difficulty.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

Plutonic Panda


Bobby5280

I think it's nothing short of INSANE for any of these groups to seriously be thinking about building abnormally narrow lanes.

I pretty much avoid I-35E to the North of Dallas due to the narrow lanes on that interim upgrade. 11' wide lanes might be okay if everyone is driving little tiny Fiat cars. Many millions of American drivers are getting around in full size trucks, SUVs and other large vehicles. It's not any fun to be moving along at 60mph-70mph feeling like you're going to trade paint with vehicles in the adjacent lanes.

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

thisdj78

Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2020, 09:47:51 PM
Somebody would not deal with eastern freeways well.

The average speed limit on freeways in East Coast cities is 55mph isn't it?

It's like 65 in Texas cities (sometimes 60 in construction zones)

Rothman



Quote from: thisdj78 on February 10, 2020, 10:08:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2020, 09:47:51 PM
Somebody would not deal with eastern freeways well.

The average speed limit on freeways in East Coast cities is 55mph isn't it?

It's like 65 in Texas cities (sometimes 60 in construction zones)

You believe speed limits matter when it comes to trading paint out here in the East?  You poor naive chump. :D
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

thisdj78

Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2020, 10:30:21 PM


Quote from: thisdj78 on February 10, 2020, 10:08:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2020, 09:47:51 PM
Somebody would not deal with eastern freeways well.

The average speed limit on freeways in East Coast cities is 55mph isn't it?

It's like 65 in Texas cities (sometimes 60 in construction zones)

You believe speed limits matter when it comes to trading paint out here in the East?  You poor naive chump. :D

Of course it doesn't matter, but when the speed of traffic is moving at an average of 55-60 vs 70-80 (and in larger vehicles on top of that), it makes difference in someone's perception of safety.

As someone who's spent a lot of time driving in NYC and Boston, I'm nowhere near naive or a chump. 😎

Rothman

Pfft.  Your experience doesn't sound very representative.

Let's get him out here on the roads!
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

J N Winkler

I don't mind 11 ft unit lane width, though I prefer 12 ft.  What I really want to avoid is 10 ft, which is good for a 30% reduction in capacity.

On Kellogg Avenue in Wichita, the West Street flyover was built in the mid-1980's with 11 ft lanes and the adjoining sections of the Kellogg freeway were built later with 12 ft lanes.  This results in a fairly abrupt transition eastbound as the width of the traveled way expands from 33 ft to 36 ft while the centerline stays laterally fixed.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

silverback1065

they can't make them less than 12 ft, any thing less than 12 is substandard for an interstate. 

Bobby5280

Brand new highways desiring an Interstate designation can't have travel lanes less than 12' wide. But that rule apparently isn't stopping people from trimming lane sizes on expansions of existing Interstate highways.

nolia_boi504

Aren't there requirements for shoulder widths as well? Looks like 610 West loop will permanently be shoulderless where the elevated bus lanes drop through the middle of the highway.... l

Pixel 4


rte66man

Quote from: silverback1065 on February 11, 2020, 07:48:45 AM
they can't make them less than 12 ft, any thing less than 12 is substandard for an interstate. 

Tell that to Dallas drivers on the recently rebuilt I35E
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

MaxConcrete

Quote from: rte66man on February 16, 2020, 06:50:31 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 11, 2020, 07:48:45 AM
they can't make them less than 12 ft, any thing less than 12 is substandard for an interstate. 

Tell that to Dallas drivers on the recently rebuilt I35E

It is surprising FHWA allowed the 11-foot-wide lines on an interstate. I'm thinking it was allowed because it is an "interim" configuration, planned to be temporary until the ultimate configuration is built.

The ultimate configuration from IH 635 to south of the Bush Turnpike (the Dallas County section) has $600 million in funding in the 2020 UTP and it is slated for award in August 2021
https://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/let/2021/dallas.htm#019603274

The 2020 UTP also funds work north of SH 121 (Rayburn Turnpike) in Lewisville on or before FY 2023. The Lewisville area is probably the worst area for 11-foot-wide lanes.

So by the mid-to-late 2020s, a lot of the 11-foot-wide lanes should be eliminated.

www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

BrandonC_TX

It will be crazy if TxDOT once again uses narrow lanes on the downtown Houston project.  I believe they did that on US 290 in northwest Houston as well, though the full left shoulder makes it seem not as bad as I-35E north of Dallas (which lacks a left shoulder from on the entire rebuilt section from I-635 to US 380).

NCTCOG's Mobility 2045 plan does not call for improvements on I-35E in the Lewisville/Lake Dallas area until the 2037-2045 timeframe (keeping a 4+2R+4 configuration there), though TxDOT has nothing to do with that plan.  I would expect full improvements sooner, and the configuration of the ultimate project is very similar to the I-45 project in north Houston (while woven ramps between the managed lanes on I-35E might make that project seem more expensive, all the major stack interchanges are already in place thanks to the interim project, whereas I-45 in north Houston calls for a new 5-level stack at I-610).

It just surprises me to see all the narrow lanes on recent TxDOT projects, where TxDOT has maintained very high standards in the recent past.

dfwmapper

I'm guessing that most of the substandard designs date back to the budget shortfall era when the only hope of ever getting anything built was cutting every possible corner. Remember that highway funding had mostly dried up in this state until we passed Prop 1 in 2014 (rainy day fund) and Prop 7 in 2015 (sales and vehicle registration taxes) to steal money from other sources to pay for roads.

sprjus4

The upcoming expansion of Loop 1604 in San Antonio from 4 (2 each way) to 10 lanes (4 + 1 HOV each way) is being built with reduced 11 foot lanes to accommodate a narrow ROW. Not sure how I feel about that though.

I-264 in the Hampton Roads region of Virginia has 11 foot lanes, and while it's certainly noticeable when driving, people seem to maintain doing 70+ mph on the 8-lane 55 mph highway without issue.

Plutonic Panda

Trying to keep this non political as a possible is hard but now Streetsblog seems to be using the tragedy that happened to George and the unrest that followed to play the race card and claim this freeway expansion is now racist. Good stuff.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/06/08/houstons-i-45-project-is-a-reminder-of-urban-renewal-racism/#disqus_thread

Echostatic

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 19, 2020, 11:39:19 AM
Trying to keep this non political as a possible is hard but now Streetsblog seems to be using the tragedy that happened to George and the unrest that followed to play the race card and claim this freeway expansion is now racist. Good stuff.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/06/08/houstons-i-45-project-is-a-reminder-of-urban-renewal-racism/#disqus_thread

They ran a similar article a few years ago about the I-35 Capital Express upcoming in Downtown Austin.
Travelled in part or in full.

sprjus4

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 19, 2020, 11:39:19 AM
Trying to keep this non political as a possible is hard but now Streetsblog seems to be using the tragedy that happened to George and the unrest that followed to play the race card and claim this freeway expansion is now racist. Good stuff.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/06/08/houstons-i-45-project-is-a-reminder-of-urban-renewal-racism/#disqus_thread
:no:

It won't change anything. Much like the upcoming I-35 project, this will be most likely be constructed as planned and provide significant relief to the current mess that is Downtown.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.