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I-69 Ohio River Bridge

Started by truejd, August 05, 2010, 10:32:59 AM

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theline

I was going to jump in there too about the location of the state line, well north of the river, where US-41 crosses. I came through there this week and can testify.

The selected location for the I-69 crossing is about where the Green River flows into the Ohio. At that location, the state line runs near the north bank of the Ohio. Presumably, the states would share the cost, since the bridges will benefit both states.

That does raise the question of who financed the US-41 crossings, back in the day. Although the entire bridges and approaches are in Kentucky, I suspect the cost was shared rather evenly. Does anyone know?


mukade

I have wondered why some creative alternatives to the expensive new bridge solution have not been explored. Could the same technique used for the Milton-Madison Bridge be used to replace the old US 41 bridge? That project cost $103M, I think. I assume the majority of the project cost would be for the bridge itself. Is there enough room create a bypass north of Audubon State Park? It seems as if most of the original bypass route in Kentucky would still be viable.

For that matter, did they ever explore the possibility of buying and leveling some businesses on the US 41 commercial strip in Henderson and building the freeway there with a frontage road for the remaining ones? The US 31 freeway upgrade in Hamilton County, Indiana involved the leveling of many businesses (1 bank, 3 restaurants, 2-3 gas stations, 1 hotel, several stores). I can't imagine that being an expensive option compared to a new terrain route and completely new Ohio River Bridge.

Indiana would have to modify the current I-164/US 41 interchange and it would mess up the Indiana I-69 exit numbering by a mile or two, but that would be a small price to pay. The INDOT two tier numbering strategy would mean that only exits in the south section would need to be renumbered.

I assume the original study explored all options, but I wonder how they settled on one that may be too expensive to build.

BTW, I think Indiana pays 1/3 the cost of the US 41 bridge maintenance despite it being totally in Kentucky.

jnewkirk77

Quote from: mukade on January 11, 2014, 09:49:06 AM
I have wondered why some creative alternatives to the expensive new bridge solution have not been explored. Could the same technique used for the Milton-Madison Bridge be used to replace the old US 41 bridge? That project cost $103M, I think. I assume the majority of the project cost would be for the bridge itself. Is there enough room create a bypass north of Audubon State Park? It seems as if most of the original bypass route in Kentucky would still be viable.

For that matter, did they ever explore the possibility of buying and leveling some businesses on the US 41 commercial strip in Henderson and building the freeway there with a frontage road for the remaining ones? The US 31 freeway upgrade in Hamilton County, Indiana involved the leveling of many businesses (1 bank, 3 restaurants, 2-3 gas stations, 1 hotel, several stores). I can't imagine that being an expensive option compared to a new terrain route and completely new Ohio River Bridge.

Indiana would have to modify the current I-164/US 41 interchange and it would mess up the Indiana I-69 exit numbering by a mile or two, but that would be a small price to pay. The INDOT two tier numbering strategy would mean that only exits in the south section would need to be renumbered.

I assume the original study explored all options, but I wonder how they settled on one that may be too expensive to build.

BTW, I think Indiana pays 1/3 the cost of the US 41 bridge maintenance despite it being totally in Kentucky.

There might have been room up until a year ago, but then a group of well-off investors bought several hundred acres of land north of Audubon and donated it to the state as an expansion of the park. Therefore it would be about impossible to build a bypass through there.

I believe IN & KY split the cost of the older NB bridge. Not sure about the SB. Here is a good resource with a lot of news clippings from Evansville's newspapers. Very helpful: http://local.evpl.org ... You can search for all kinds of stuff there, lots of history on the roads and bridges in the area.

hbelkins

http://transportation.ky.gov/Pages/Contact-Us.aspx

If anyone wants to know if Indiana pays any for maintenance of the US 41 twin bridges at Henderson, use this form to ask.

(I don't know the answer to that question. Perhaps someone will ask and can post the answer.)


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

theline

I sent the Transportation Cabinet a request for information on Indiana's contribution to the maintenance and construction costs of the US-41 bridges. I'll report back when I get a response.

silverback1065

if us 41's bridges are in awful shape, they have 4 bridges they need to build.  It's also crazy that indiana pays for something that isn't even in it's boarders

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

theline

Good point, NE2. Of course, a government will pay for improvements outside its borders if it stands to benefit its citizens. The US-41 bridges allow citizens of the Evansville area easier access to points south for pleasure or business than the previous alternative (presumably a ferry or other boat-for-hire). They also allow Kentucky citizens easier access to Indiana to conduct business (spend money in the Hoosier economy). As a Hoosier, I've got no problem helping to finance crossings that benefit Indiana. The location is just a detail of little importance.

andy

I should have been more clear. Agreed, most bridges are in Kentucky, but are not built without Hoosier assistance in funding.


hbelkins

Kentucky and its border states split up maintenance and construction costs on many of the bridges.

I'm pretty sure Indiana takes care of the bridges that take KY 69 (Hawesville) and KY 79 (Brandenburg) across the river. Indiana also maintains the Sherman Minton Bridge (I-64) and it was Indiana that initiated the closure last year for emergency repairs.

Ohio replaced the US 23 bridge at Portsmouth and is also building the new Ironton-Russell bridge.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

US 41

If Indiana helps pay maintenance costs on the US 41 bridge, then Kentucky should give Indiana all of the land north of the Ohio River.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

Bill C

Quote from: US 41 on January 12, 2014, 02:45:11 PM
If Indiana helps pay maintenance costs on the US 41 bridge, then Kentucky should give Indiana all of the land north of the Ohio River.


States don't give up land and the river will change course again.  What is north was once south.  Time and rivers wait for no man but the State remains intact as designated and litigated.

Buck87

Quote from: Bill C on January 12, 2014, 07:42:15 PM
States don't give up land

Especially land with a horse track on it

Captain Jack

Quote from: Buck87 on January 12, 2014, 11:17:26 PM
Quote from: Bill C on January 12, 2014, 07:42:15 PM
States don't give up land

Especially land with a horse track on it

Exactly!! I don't have a problem with Indiana splitting the cost. There are a lot more Hoosiers in the E'ville metro who this impacts that Kentuckians.

I also don't have a problem with the US 41 bridges being a temporary fix for 69, but a new bridge is needed. E'ville-Henderson is the largest metro on both the Ohio and Mississippi with a single crossing.

theline

Quote from: theline on January 11, 2014, 06:23:52 PM
I sent the Transportation Cabinet a request for information on Indiana's contribution to the maintenance and construction costs of the US-41 bridges. I'll report back when I get a response.
I got a quick response from David Steele, Branch Manager for Bridge Preservation, Division of Maintenance:
QuoteThe State of Indiana contributes 50% of the maintenance costs on the two Ohio River Bridges near Henderson, Kentucky. Kentucky contributes the other 50% of the maintenance costs.

The northbound Ohio River bridge was built as a toll bridge by Indiana with Kentucky participating in one-half the construction costs.

Indiana, Kentucky, and the Federal Highway Administration participated in the cost of the construction of the southbound bridge and approaches.


theline

Keith Todd, Public Information Officer, KYTC, Department of Highways, Districts One & Two, in response to my email about the US 41 bridges, sent a copy of the press release issued on the 75th birthday of the northbound bridge in 2007:
Quote
U.S. 41 Twin Bridges Northbound Structure Celebrates

75 Years of Service to Travelers

Original Bridge Officially Opened to Traffic in 1932


Henderson, KY. (June 28, 2007) -  When Kentucky Transportation Cabinet Engineers developed plans to run three lanes of traffic on what is normally a two lane bridge, some Henderson-Evansville area commuters thought that a bit unusual.  However, a check of area newspapers from 1932 shows that the original bridge carried three lanes of traffic when it first opened that year.

            According to Chief District Engineer Ted Merryman, traffic was pretty much gridlocked around the bridge the first two days it was open 75 years ago.

"When the first bridge (now carrying northbound traffic) was officially opened to traffic with a three day celebration centered on July 4th, 1932, traffic was gridlocked around the bridge as an estimated 50,000 vehicles try to cross the structure in the first two days,"  Merryman said.

                The three day celebration was centered on July 4th, making July 4th 2007 the bridge's 75th birthday.

                "Few of us can fully comprehend what a true marvel of engineering the first structure must have appeared to be 75 years ago,"  Merryman observed.  "The three day celebration mounted by both Henderson and Evansville was fully fitting the structure that has connected Western Kentucky and Southern Indiana economically and socially since."

To officially open the bridge to traffic, Governor Ruby Lafoon of Kentucky and Governor Harry G. Leslie of Indiana walked from each end of the span to meet in the middle to shake hands.  A boat flotilla gathered from up and down the Ohio River took nearly 40 minutes to pass beneath the bridge.  About two-dozen army planes put on an air show with maneuvers above Dade Park (now Ellis Park) Race Track.   A parade that stretched nearly two miles long celebrating the history of transportation lasted nearly two hours.

                Gayle Alvis with the Kentucky State Library Archives assisted Kentucky Transportation Cabinet Public Information Officer Keith Todd in digging through microfilm files filled with the history of the original bridge.

                "One of the first Henderson Gleaner articles we found described the celebration as, "˜One of the most elaborate celebrations of its kind ever to be staged in the Middle West,'"  Alvis said.  "It was estimated that the celebration attracted 100,000 visitors to Henderson."

                Military cannons were fired from the riverbanks joining with the din of riverboat whistles during the celebration.

                Todd says the cost and magnitude of the bridge building program that included the first U.S. 41 Ohio River Bridge created quite a building boom across Kentucky.

                "The first of the U.S. 41 Twin bridges was built for $2.4 million.  It was one of 11 new bridges built statewide at about the same time for just under $10 million,"  Todd said.  "That building boom included the U.S. 60 Green River Bridge at Spottsville that had opened just a few months earlier, as well as other major bridges along the U.S. 60 Corridor.  It was an amazing time of growth and economic expansion across Kentucky and it all came down to improving transportation."

                Bridge bonds issued to pay for the construction effort were paid off with tolls.  Crossing between Henderson and Evansville required a 30 cent toll for passenger vehicles.  It was five cents for pedestrians who strolled across a sidewalk on the bridge deck.  A toll card for the bridge listed a 5 cent per head charge for "livestock on foot."

                Ruby Lafoon called the new U.S. 41 highway, "...one of the most important in the nation and the most important traversing Kentucky from North to South."

                In December 1966 a second bridge was opened to handle southbound traffic with the original bridge handling only northbound traffic as it does today.

The U.S. 41 Twin Bridges, also known as the Bi-State Gold Star Vietnam War Memorial Bridges, carry approximately 40,000 vehicles a day across the Ohio River between Henderson, Kentucky, and Evansville, Indiana.

-30-

Mr Todd also sent along text below, from clippings compiled by Frank Boyett with the Henderson Gleaner.  Mr. Todd said that Mr. Boyette has also done several articles on the Twins that should be available on the Gleaner Website. (Emphasis added below is mine.)
Quote
U.S. 41 Twin Bridges History Notes
From the Opening of the Original Bridge in 1932

Compiled from microfilm archives of the Henderson Gleaner, the Evansville Courier-Press and the Louisville Courier Journal.

  • Opening day the trip from Evansville to Henderson took about two hours.  Traffic was packed solid, both ways.  The distance from the Henderson city limits to the bridge proper was 4 miles. From courthouse to courthouse it is 10.2 miles.
  • Cost of the original bridge was $2.4 million with the federal government paying half, Kentucky paying 1/4th and Indiana paying 1/4th.
  • Both Evansville and Henderson are decorated in bunting and flags, principal streets are lighted with vari-colored electric lights and a general spirit of carnival prevails.
  • Dean William S. Taylor of the University of Kentucky was keynote speaker for a celebration at Bosse Field in Evansville.  Among his observations he said, "Man today is a bridge builder and probably will ever be.  This magnificent structure of engineering genius is not only a gateway between our two states for trading, traveling and the more intimate mingling of people; it is a symbol of the linking together, of the blending into one of the North and the South.  It is a symbol of the oneness of our citizens, who today have the same ideals, the same standards, and the same aspirations."
  • Army planes flying overhead scattered rose petals over the crowed gathered on the bridge for the dedication.
  • It is estimated that 50,000 automobiles carrying some 200,000 persons crossed the bridge Sunday and Monday.  There were four lanes of traffic on the approaches and three on the bridge and so thick was it that it was creeping along most of the time.
  • A squadron of 22 airplanes led by Jimmy Doolittle zoomed over the river.
  • S.I. Will, a local merchant was credited as being the first southbound traveler to pay the first toll.  George J. Lucas of the Lucas & Wooten Poultry firm of Henderson drove the first northbound car to pay a toll.  At the start of toll charges, 267 vehicles crossed in the first hour, 166 southbound and 101 northbound.
  • The Dixie Bee Ferry at Henderson and the Dade Park Ferry near the bridge were purchased by the Kentucky Highway Commission and continued operating for a time after the bridge was completed.
  • Tolls on the original bridges were removed or "freed"  on March 20, 1941, making travel between the two cities more economical and encouraging new commerce.
  • The second of the U.S. 41 Twin Bridges was opened to traffic on December 16, 1966 at a cost of $5 million, further enhancing this historic connection between Henderson and Evansville.

Grzrd

#191
Quote from: mukade on January 11, 2014, 09:49:06 AM
did they ever explore the possibility of buying and leveling some businesses on the US 41 commercial strip in Henderson and building the freeway there with a frontage road for the remaining ones?

Steven Ross, Transportation Engineering Branch Manager at KYTC, just posted the entire Ohio River Bridge DEIS.  Links to sections of the DEIS can found in the "Henderson to Evansville - Proposed Interstate 69" section at the bottom of this page:

http://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Pages/I-69.aspx

In an email, he cautions that, as time has passed, it is now basically an artifact of history:

Quote
Please be advised that a final environmental assessment was never approved by the Federal Highway Administration due to the inability of the Henderson-Evansville MPO's Long Range Transportation Plan being able to demonstrate fiscal constraint with this project included.  Given the inability to pay for the alternatives under consideration at that point in time and due to the passage of time, all work prepared really just becomes background or reference information for a new process that would be required should there become a means to fund this undertaking.

With that in mind, the DEIS does contain some good information about the alternatives that would have incorporated US 41.

Grzrd

#192
KYTC has posted the 2014 Recommended Highway Plan. The Project Listing section includes preliminary engineering and environmental in 2018 for a possible US 41 bridge replacement as an intermediate solution for an I-69 bridge (page 55/139 of pdf)


Grzrd

#193
Quote from: Grzrd on January 22, 2014, 12:08:53 PM
Links to sections of the DEIS can found in the "Henderson to Evansville - Proposed Interstate 69" section at the bottom of this page:
http://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Pages/I-69.aspx
Quote from: Grzrd on January 23, 2014, 05:23:00 PM
KYTC has posted the 2014 Recommended Highway Plan. The Project Listing section includes preliminary engineering and environmental in 2018 for a possible US 41 bridge replacement as an intermediate solution for an I-69 bridge (page 55/139 of pdf)

The 2004 Draft Environmental Impact Statement for the Henderson to Evansville crossing discusses the disadvantages to Corridors F and G (both of which would have utilized the current bridges and studies of both which were discontinued at an early stage) (pages 63-64/470 of pdf). For example, in regard to Corridor F:

Quote
This corridor did not meet all performance measures of the Purpose and Need Statement, since it did not provide an additional river crossing to US 41. It would have been difficult to construct while keeping it open to traffic and would likely have had adverse impacts on businesses along the corridor during construction.

Sounds like a US 41 bridge rebuild occurring before construction of an I-69 bridge would present severe traffic challenges and economic challenges for businesses along the corridor (of course, a bridge rebuild alone would have less of an impact than an interstate rebuild along the corridor).

US 41

My guess is that if a new US 41 bridge is built then I-69 will travel with US 41 across the Ohio River and the new I-69 Bridge will never be built.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

silverback1065

Quote from: US 41 on January 24, 2014, 11:13:40 PM
My guess is that if a new US 41 bridge is built then I-69 will travel with US 41 across the Ohio River and the new I-69 Bridge will never be built.

I agree, is it really necessary for another bridge when you weigh in the costs?

lordsutch

IMO the ideal solution would be to build the I-69 bridge and then replace the US 41 bridges as needed; they could probably get away with just the existing southbound bridge until it becomes structurally deficient once the I-69 bridge is in place.

Nexus 7


Captain Jack

Quote from: lordsutch on January 25, 2014, 03:56:09 AM
IMO the ideal solution would be to build the I-69 bridge and then replace the US 41 bridges as needed; they could probably get away with just the existing southbound bridge until it becomes structurally deficient once the I-69 bridge is in place.

Nexus 7

I agree. The problem with building a new US 41 bridge and then routing I-69 over it is that is still leaves the metropolitan area with a single crossing between them. If a new I-69 bridge is built, then I can see where it could make sense for US 41 to go down to a single span. Less traffic will be using US 41 and a single span crossing would still allow for a second crossing over the river.

jnewkirk77

Quote from: Captain Jack on January 26, 2014, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on January 25, 2014, 03:56:09 AM
IMO the ideal solution would be to build the I-69 bridge and then replace the US 41 bridges as needed; they could probably get away with just the existing southbound bridge until it becomes structurally deficient once the I-69 bridge is in place.

Nexus 7

I agree. The problem with building a new US 41 bridge and then routing I-69 over it is that is still leaves the metropolitan area with a single crossing between them. If a new I-69 bridge is built, then I can see where it could make sense for US 41 to go down to a single span. Less traffic will be using US 41 and a single span crossing would still allow for a second crossing over the river.

I'm with Cap on this one. If I'm not mistaken, Evansville is the largest metro area on the Ohio with just one crossing (and yes, I consider the 41 bridges as one). There are times, seemingly more now than in years past, when that's not a good thing. Sometime or another, there will have to be a second crossing. I think people will howl for a bit if it's tolled, but if that's the only way we get one, then so be it.

US 41

Yes Evansville is the largest. Maybe Owensboro should get a second bridge too. Wouldn't Owensboro then be the largest metro area on the Ohio without 2 bridges? Do you see where this is going? A cycle will start with cities saying, "We're the largest with only crossing."
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM



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