New Jersey

[_Simon]

Yesterday I noticed a large amount of construction going on at the Flemington Circle... I didn't have my dash cam running, but it appears they are building an additional lane heading south on US 202. Does anyone know the exact specifications of the project?

It almost seems like they are finally getting rid of the circle...

I heard they are making a through movement on one side of 202 but the circle will remain.  Not sure how accurate that information is.  As long as they leave up the hamburger/steering wheel "CIRCLE" warning signs, im happy.

[storm2k]

I am kind of thinking that.  Yes the current one's were added in 1994, as the old diagramical signs were there when I left in 1990 still.  Even when Randophville Road was made a complete interchange it for a short while received the diagram panel for SB I-287 until 1994.  In fact it was 1994 that the section of I-287 south of Basking Ridge got exit numbers. 

Any known pics of these?  I remember these as a kid and have been trying to find them for years.

I-78 was without number, but nearby former Exit 18 got numbers which is the US 202 & 206 Bedminster interchange.

Don't forget that there used to be an on-ramp from US-202/206 south to I-287 NB, removed due to weaving.

Thought so about the on ramp there.  I was checking out GSV and noticed it was gone.  Was wondering about that one.  Anyway that ramp was redundant anyhow because a left turn was always allowed at the one roadway that acts as connection to I-287 N Bound.

If I am not mistaken, I believe the NB I-287 to SB US 202 & 206 was added sometime in the 70's as originally it was only a NB only exit using the cloverleaf ramp that is there now.  SB always had the ramp it has now, and the NB ramp as is now from US 202 & 206 was there.  If my memory is correct then there were missing movements from NB 287 to SB US 202 & 206 and from NB US 202 & 206 to SB 287 in the original form.  Of course the NB US 202 & 206 to SB 287 is still missing as the River Road jughandle allows for a u turn to the SB side as well as lets SB 287 access to SB US 202 & 206 as the SB 22 ramp is for NB US 202 & 206.

I never realized there was another ramp there. That has to have been gone since the early 80s then, because I grew up in that area and I've always known Schley Mountain Rd as the way to get to 287NB from 202-206SB.

[akotchi]

Sometime after 1991.  I recall doing a traffic count on that ramp as part of a study in that area around that time.  Almost no volume on that ramp at the time.  Not sure when Schley Mountain Rd. started being signed for I-287 from southbound U.S. 202-206, but it was always signed for I-287 from the northbound lanes.

[jeffandnicole]

Major fire in toll booth causes absolutely no traffic delays whatsoever... 

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/fire-crews-douse-raging-blaze-on-beesleys-point-bridge/article_119cdfe0-7499-11e6-bbd6-1bf023045779.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share

[noelbotevera]

Major fire in toll booth causes absolutely no traffic delays whatsoever... 

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/fire-crews-douse-raging-blaze-on-beesleys-point-bridge/article_119cdfe0-7499-11e6-bbd6-1bf023045779.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share

Man, I missed out on the Beesley's Point Bridge while I was in Atlantic City! I'm not sure if they started demolition whenever I was there, in June 2015, because I wanted to explore the bridge...ah well, there goes something I'll never see.

[mariethefoxy]

Speaking of US 202, part of it was closed requiring a wierd detour today.

[roadman65]

1991 or 1994 or 1997, I am only going by what the users on here post in the past.  It appears that the current signing south of Morristown was not done all at once.  Rather in different projects and the dual carriageway set up south of I-78, seemed to be widened in the late 90's that gave that section its current signage.

Yes I have been away from NJ too long and do not know the exact time line of things so excuse the dates mix up.  Plus I am not on here as much as most to spend an hour or so reading all the posts, so I only grasp the posts that are at the near top of the page, or look for the ones I posted on the last time.  In fact some times I get to go on here I only have five minutes as I have a busy schedule.  I wish I had more time to be able to spend, and also the fact like many of you here, I have social issues out of my control and dealing with others who do not understand or the basic run of the mill trolls.  Plus some who know me personally from FB who dislike me for some of the posts I have on there, because they disagree with my personal, religious, and political beliefs, I have to deal with fall out on here.

Anyway, I am only asking that you forgive me for getting the dates of the I-287 signing wrong.  I do like talking about NJ roads and I am always fascinated with Route 287 as that was a commute route for me for most of 1984 and 1985.  I have seen the diagramical signs, I have seen them changed from button copy to reflective, and saw the 1985 northbound bridge repairs in Somerset and Bound Brook that caused traffic issues the Summer of that year.  So that road is a major part of me and it interests me still to this day to converse about it.

[mariethefoxy]

New Jersey must have used button copy all the way into the late 90s since some of those signs from the widened part of 287 are button copy.

[NJRoadfan]

They used it until production ended in 1998ish.

[mariethefoxy]

theres button copy signs on 287 in the northern part where the first letter of each direction is enlarged so that must mean NJ was one of the last to switch over. PLenty of it left all over the state still except the toll roads.

[jeffandnicole]

All 523 fatal accidents in NJ in 2015 on a single map... http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2016/09/all_523_fatal_crashes_in_nj_last_year_on_a_single_map.html#incart_river_home

Noted further down in the article was the cause of these accidents. Of course, it highlights speeding, but only 20% or so of the accidents involved speeding.  "Careless Driving", a catch-all violation in NJ, was the top factor in fatals last year.  Distracted Driving and failure to yield at traffic signals resulted in more fatals than speeding (at least according to the story).

[roadman65]

I once went Westbound on South Avenue in Westfiled, and saw the yield signs and yielded like the law states!  Did you know the damned driver behind me went around me and went through the yield signs with another motorists inside the circle who had the right away approaching the intersection! 

At first I thought the guy was stupid for going around another vehicle doing what you are supposed to at a traffic control device and not heeding himself to it.  Now, since I have my job at the tolls, I realize it was not stupidity as much as ignorance!  Now I see why people call Orange Blossom Trail in Orlando as US 441 or four forty-one despite the US 17 & 92 shields are more noticeable than the US 441 ones.  Its the very same reason why motorists ignore the elephant tracks and overhead EXIT ONLY signs at right lane ramp defaults!  Ignorance of their surroundings!

Anyway, with all that I can see why the numbers are there as you pointed out!  If you read a simple road signs you can get by, but unfortunately the modern person does not do it and there are not enough cops to go around to enforce it!  Hey we have a speed trap everyday on Deerfield Blvd in Orlando, and the fear of being ticketed is not there as many will continue to travel at 40 to 45 mph in a residential 30 mph speed zone set there, so I do not even think ticketing every motorists who is careless in some form or the other would even do it either.

[NE2]

Now I see why people call Orange Blossom Trail in Orlando as US 441 or four forty-one despite the US 17 & 92 shields are more noticeable than the US 441 ones.

Um...people call it 441 because the entire length of OBT in Orlando (and Orange County) is 441. Only the part south of Colonial is also 17/92.

[Alps]

Now I see why people call Orange Blossom Trail in Orlando as US 441 or four forty-one despite the US 17 & 92 shields are more noticeable than the US 441 ones.

Um...people call it 441 because the entire length of OBT in Orlando (and Orange County) is 441. Only the part south of Colonial is also 17/92.

At least he hit upon "ignorance" as a cause of the misunderstanding.

[storm2k]

theres button copy signs on 287 in the northern part where the first letter of each direction is enlarged so that must mean NJ was one of the last to switch over. PLenty of it left all over the state still except the toll roads.

Anything between was erected in 1994 when they built the HOV lanes. Everything north of 80 was done in 1993 when they finally finished the road to the NY state line.

NJDOT did not start doing reflective non-button copy signage until around 1999 if I'm not mistaken.

[storm2k]

Not sure if anyone else noticed this, but they have been doing work on the weigh station on 287 NB between exits 8 and 9. They spruced up the trailer that serves as the office for the state police, and it looks like they're installing the equipment for a prepass-like system to try and speed up processing through the weigh station (i do know when it's open, the line can easily back up to almost Exit 7 with trucks waiting to go through the weigh station).

[roadman65]

I am surprised that this weigh station serves the many trucks it does being its very small.  I know there is no room for expansion anywhere around there.  You might be able to put one up in Bridgewater, but trucks would bypass it on US 22 or US 202 & 206.

The last time I was there in 2012, it looked abandoned then, but after reading this I see it was not. 

[Alps]

theres button copy signs on 287 in the northern part where the first letter of each direction is enlarged so that must mean NJ was one of the last to switch over. PLenty of it left all over the state still except the toll roads.

Anything between was erected in 1994 when they built the HOV lanes. Everything north of 80 was done in 1993 when they finally finished the road to the NY state line.

NJDOT did not start doing reflective non-button copy signage until around 1999 if I'm not mistaken.

I believe the official changeover was in 1997. Remaining projects and stocks of button copy were used up, so they were put up even as late as 2000 for at least one project. By 1998 I imagine some of the new fully reflective signs were going in already, with some overlap.

[storm2k]

I am surprised that this weigh station serves the many trucks it does being its very small.  I know there is no room for expansion anywhere around there.  You might be able to put one up in Bridgewater, but trucks would bypass it on US 22 or US 202 & 206.

The last time I was there in 2012, it looked abandoned then, but after reading this I see it was not. 

It's open more sporadically than some of the ones in western Jersey. I don't know where else you would put one on 287, there is a lot of development very close to the road all along that stretch, even in Bridgewater. There is a lot of truck traffic on this stretch of road, though, so they do use it.

[noelbotevera]

Something that's strange to me is the I-78/I-287 interchange. I'm mostly focusing on I-287.

My question is: why is I-287 set up more like the New Jersey Turnpike here? It's quad carriageway with three lanes, for a total of 12. However, this creates a needlessly complex interchange at US 202. I know this section is busy, but the section to the south is six lanes and has handled traffic fine whenever I was there. I wasn't able to find information about this setup, except for the fact that the outer carriageways were widened from 2 to 3 lanes in the 1990s.

It seems like it's supposed to distribute traffic from US 202/206, and counter weaving, but the next freeway interchange to the north at NJ 24 doesn't have this problem, and the next exits to both directions are only a mile away, while this interchange has the 202/206 exit four miles to the south, and a really primitive interchange at US 206 to the north.

[storm2k]

Something that's strange to me is the I-78/I-287 interchange. I'm mostly focusing on I-287.

My question is: why is I-287 set up more like the New Jersey Turnpike here? It's quad carriageway with three lanes, for a total of 12. However, this creates a needlessly complex interchange at US 202. I know this section is busy, but the section to the south is six lanes and has handled traffic fine whenever I was there. I wasn't able to find information about this setup, except for the fact that the outer carriageways were widened from 2 to 3 lanes in the 1990s.

It seems like it's supposed to distribute traffic from US 202/206, and counter weaving, but the next freeway interchange to the north at NJ 24 doesn't have this problem, and the next exits to both directions are only a mile away, while this interchange has the 202/206 exit four miles to the south, and a really primitive interchange at US 206 to the north.

It's been that way since the beginning. If you look at this Historic Aerial from 1963, when they're building, they already have the dual-dual config and the left hand ramp to 78 WB. I imagine the entire thing was to allow for that left hand movement. I never could figure out a better reason.

Also of interest that I never realized before now. There is an unused loop ramp from 78EB to 287NB. I always thought it was a relic from before the more complex ramps were built, but it was built somewhere between 1979 and 1987. Anyone know what the idea for this ramp was supposed to be?

[akotchi]

^^ It was a temporary ramp built when the existing left-entry ramp needed to be closed for redecking of the two bridges on the ramp.  Left in after that work was done to use for emergency conditions.

[roadman65]

Something that's strange to me is the I-78/I-287 interchange. I'm mostly focusing on I-287.

My question is: why is I-287 set up more like the New Jersey Turnpike here? It's quad carriageway with three lanes, for a total of 12. However, this creates a needlessly complex interchange at US 202. I know this section is busy, but the section to the south is six lanes and has handled traffic fine whenever I was there. I wasn't able to find information about this setup, except for the fact that the outer carriageways were widened from 2 to 3 lanes in the 1990s.

It seems like it's supposed to distribute traffic from US 202/206, and counter weaving, but the next freeway interchange to the north at NJ 24 doesn't have this problem, and the next exits to both directions are only a mile away, while this interchange has the 202/206 exit four miles to the south, and a really primitive interchange at US 206 to the north.

It's been that way since the beginning. If you look at this Historic Aerial from 1963, when they're building, they already have the dual-dual config and the left hand ramp to 78 WB. I imagine the entire thing was to allow for that left hand movement. I never could figure out a better reason.

Also of interest that I never realized before now. There is an unused loop ramp from 78EB to 287NB. I always thought it was a relic from before the more complex ramps were built, but it was built somewhere between 1979 and 1987. Anyone know what the idea for this ramp was supposed to be?

I am only guessing at this, but the two lane left merge coming from I-78 WB to I-287 SB into the center roadway and the left two lane exit for US 202 & 206 SB from that very same carriageway suggests that its to keep traffic separate from those coming from I-78 EB to I-287 SB.

The same is on the NB side with the merge from US 202 & 206 NB to I-287 north to the outer roadway where the two lane NB exit to I-78 EB is.  Then on the NB side you have the left exit to I-78 WB from the inner roadway not connected to any of the traffic on the outer roadway except for the crossover ramp that allows US 202 & 206 traffic to access I-78 WB, that now is also signed for straight through traffic as well to cross over.

I believe that NJDOT engineers anticipated that most traffic from I-78 WB to I-287 SB were heading to Somerville and south on the 202 & 206 corridors rather than stay on 287.  Remember this was before Piscataway sprawled into what it is now. Piscataway was mostly farms until the mid 1970's and early 80's, so it was thought that no one would want to go that far on SB I-287 from that way.  The same going the other way.  It was theorized that most traffic entering I-78 EB from I-287 NB would be coming from Somerville, Bridgewater, and from the south and west as well.

[jeffandnicole]

Something that's strange to me is the I-78/I-287 interchange. I'm mostly focusing on I-287.

My question is: why is I-287 set up more like the New Jersey Turnpike here? It's quad carriageway with three lanes, for a total of 12. However, this creates a needlessly complex interchange at US 202. I know this section is busy, but the section to the south is six lanes and has handled traffic fine whenever I was there. I wasn't able to find information about this setup, except for the fact that the outer carriageways were widened from 2 to 3 lanes in the 1990s.

It seems like it's supposed to distribute traffic from US 202/206, and counter weaving, but the next freeway interchange to the north at NJ 24 doesn't have this problem, and the next exits to both directions are only a mile away, while this interchange has the 202/206 exit four miles to the south, and a really primitive interchange at US 206 to the north.

It's been that way since the beginning. If you look at this Historic Aerial from 1963, when they're building, they already have the dual-dual config and the left hand ramp to 78 WB. I imagine the entire thing was to allow for that left hand movement. I never could figure out a better reason.

Also of interest that I never realized before now. There is an unused loop ramp from 78EB to 287NB. I always thought it was a relic from before the more complex ramps were built, but it was built somewhere between 1979 and 1987. Anyone know what the idea for this ramp was supposed to be?

I am only guessing at this, but the two lane left merge coming from I-78 WB to I-287 SB into the center roadway and the left two lane exit for US 202 & 206 SB from that very same carriageway suggests that its to keep traffic separate from those coming from I-78 EB to I-287 SB.

The same is on the NB side with the merge from US 202 & 206 NB to I-287 north to the outer roadway where the two lane NB exit to I-78 EB is.  Then on the NB side you have the left exit to I-78 WB from the inner roadway not connected to any of the traffic on the outer roadway except for the crossover ramp that allows US 202 & 206 traffic to access I-78 WB, that now is also signed for straight through traffic as well to cross over.

I believe that NJDOT engineers anticipated that most traffic from I-78 WB to I-287 SB were heading to Somerville and south on the 202 & 206 corridors rather than stay on 287.  Remember this was before Piscataway sprawled into what it is now. Piscataway was mostly farms until the mid 1970's and early 80's, so it was thought that no one would want to go that far on SB I-287 from that way.  The same going the other way.  It was theorized that most traffic entering I-78 EB from I-287 NB would be coming from Somerville, Bridgewater, and from the south and west as well.

This similar idea is why I figured 295 and 76 had express ramps to and from south of I-76.  Maybe it had to do with the grand scheme of proposed highways and bridges between Philly and NJ, most of which were going to be North of I-76.  Obviously, many of those highways and bridges never happened.  If the planners realized what would truly happen, we would've seen express connections to and from the north instead.

[_Simon]

I am kind of thinking that.  Yes the current one's were added in 1994, as the old diagramical signs were there when I left in 1990 still.  Even when Randophville Road was made a complete interchange it for a short while received the diagram panel for SB I-287 until 1994.  In fact it was 1994 that the section of I-287 south of Basking Ridge got exit numbers. 

Any known pics of these?  I remember these as a kid and have been trying to find them for years.

I-78 was without number, but nearby former Exit 18 got numbers which is the US 202 & 206 Bedminster interchange.

Don't forget that there used to be an on-ramp from US-202/206 south to I-287 NB, removed due to weaving.

Thought so about the on ramp there.  I was checking out GSV and noticed it was gone.  Was wondering about that one.  Anyway that ramp was redundant anyhow because a left turn was always allowed at the one roadway that acts as connection to I-287 N Bound.

If I am not mistaken, I believe the NB I-287 to SB US 202 & 206 was added sometime in the 70's as originally it was only a NB only exit using the cloverleaf ramp that is there now.  SB always had the ramp it has now, and the NB ramp as is now from US 202 & 206 was there.  If my memory is correct then there were missing movements from NB 287 to SB US 202 & 206 and from NB US 202 & 206 to SB 287 in the original form.  Of course the NB US 202 & 206 to SB 287 is still missing as the River Road jughandle allows for a u turn to the SB side as well as lets SB 287 access to SB US 202 & 206 as the SB 22 ramp is for NB US 202 & 206.

I never realized there was another ramp there. That has to have been gone since the early 80s then, because I grew up in that area and I've always known Schley Mountain Rd as the way to get to 287NB from 202-206SB.

Speak of the devil;  I drove by this tonight and it was in the middle of being re-graded.   I assume it's part of the I-287/I-78 interchange project;  I'd love to get a map/design of what doing.