Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[JMAN_WiS&S]

Something interesting I hAve noticed on the FYA's on Hastings Way here in Eau Claire WI is when a protected phase isn't requested at the beginning of the cycle, upon thru traffic getting the green ball, the 4 sections remain red arrows for 3-4 seconds before switching to fya almost as if to prevent people turning left from cutting off oncoming traffic shall they fall to yield. Most fya I've seen start flashing when thru goes green unless oncoming left gets arrow.

[Revive 755]

I've never fully understood why, during busy times, DOT's sometimes set pro/per signals to protected-only. Doesn't that inhibit the possible through-put of the left turn? If a light is flashing yellow, my instinct is to pull forward, go when clear, or, when the light goes to solid yellow, wait for oncoming traffic to stop, and then complete my turn. A red arrow would make this illegal (lest I was turning onto a one-way), thus increasing the number of cars waiting to turn left.

There are places where there are absolutely no gaps during the peak hours for left turners to take advantage of.  Couple this with the issue of left turners trying to sneak through before the side street gets a green (assuming the signal is leading left only) and getting creamed by an opposing through vehicle pushing the light, it becomes a trade off of getting maybe one or two more cars through per cycle versus the crash risk and liability.

[mrsman]

As far as I'm concerned Pa and Wv are the only two states that don't use it

We know.

The only states that don't use this are Pa and Wv

And you're still wrong.  New Jersey doesn't use it either.  I don't believe Delaware uses it as well.

DE has extensive use of flashing red arrow, which is functionally equivalent to flashing yellow arrow to denote a permitted but not protected turn.  However, one must come to a complete stop before turning on a flashing red arrow.

[cpzilliacus]

I have finally seen a flashing yellow arrow in the District of Columbia. 

I believe it is the only one in the city.

It is on H Street, N.E. eastbound at the intersection with Maryland Avenue and Benning Road. 

[cl94]

I have finally seen a flashing yellow arrow in the District of Columbia. 

I believe it is the only one in the city.

It is on H Street, N.E. eastbound at the intersection with Maryland Avenue and Benning Road.

There's one on Connecticut Avenue NW at DuPont Circle.

[mrsman]

I have finally seen a flashing yellow arrow in the District of Columbia. 

I believe it is the only one in the city.

It is on H Street, N.E. eastbound at the intersection with Maryland Avenue and Benning Road.

There's one on Connecticut Avenue NW at DuPont Circle.

While both signals do mean yield, they do come in different contexts.  FYA is to denote the permitted left turn, yield to oncoming traffic.  Dupont Cirlce has FYA to the right and they are terrrible.  There is no protected phase at all for some of the turners.  You have a no turn on red that means you can't turn even at times when traffic is clear and get a FYA when traffic is still going through the circle.  Extremely dangerous. 

What they should do is allow for a right turn green signal when traffic on the circle has a red.  Those turning right should be reminded to yield to pedestrians, but they need their own phase to go through the circle.

[paulthemapguy]

I have finally seen a flashing yellow arrow in the District of Columbia. 

I believe it is the only one in the city.

It is on H Street, N.E. eastbound at the intersection with Maryland Avenue and Benning Road.

There's one on Connecticut Avenue NW at DuPont Circle.

While both signals do mean yield, they do come in different contexts.  FYA is to denote the permitted left turn, yield to oncoming traffic.  Dupont Cirlce has FYA to the right and they are terrrible.  There is no protected phase at all for some of the turners.  You have a no turn on red that means you can't turn even at times when traffic is clear and get a FYA when traffic is still going through the circle.  Extremely dangerous. 

What they should do is allow for a right turn green signal when traffic on the circle has a red.  Those turning right should be reminded to yield to pedestrians, but they need their own phase to go through the circle.

I was wondering when I would hear of people trying to use the flashing yellow concept for right turns.  It doesn't really make sense to have a flashing yellow right arrow when the green ball is lit, since someone turning right would have the right of way anyway, unless maybe there's a crosswalk to the right?  I couldn't see use for a red ball with a flashing right yellow arrow, either--if a right turn is permitted on green, it's usually because traffic from the right is turning left, forming two concentric turning movements...so you would just instate a green right arrow in that case.

Does anyone have an idea for a viable application of a flashing yellow RIGHT arrow?  I can't think of any (except maybe as a warning to watch for peds in a crosswalk before you turn right).

[spooky]

I have finally seen a flashing yellow arrow in the District of Columbia. 

I believe it is the only one in the city.

It is on H Street, N.E. eastbound at the intersection with Maryland Avenue and Benning Road.

There's one on Connecticut Avenue NW at DuPont Circle.

While both signals do mean yield, they do come in different contexts.  FYA is to denote the permitted left turn, yield to oncoming traffic.  Dupont Cirlce has FYA to the right and they are terrrible.  There is no protected phase at all for some of the turners.  You have a no turn on red that means you can't turn even at times when traffic is clear and get a FYA when traffic is still going through the circle.  Extremely dangerous. 

What they should do is allow for a right turn green signal when traffic on the circle has a red.  Those turning right should be reminded to yield to pedestrians, but they need their own phase to go through the circle.

I was wondering when I would hear of people trying to use the flashing yellow concept for right turns.  It doesn't really make sense to have a flashing yellow right arrow when the green ball is lit, since someone turning right would have the right of way anyway, unless maybe there's a crosswalk to the right?  I couldn't see use for a red ball with a flashing right yellow arrow, either--if a right turn is permitted on green, it's usually because traffic from the right is turning left, forming two concentric turning movements...so you would just instate a green right arrow in that case.

Does anyone have an idea for a viable application of a flashing yellow RIGHT arrow?  I can't think of any (except maybe as a warning to watch for peds in a crosswalk before you turn right).

From the MUTCD, accompanying a graphic of a R/Y/FY signal head configuration:

These faces would be used if it is intended that a right turn on red after stop be permitted; a RIGHT TURN SIGNAL (R10-10R) sign shall be used with these faces if the red indication is sometimes displayed when the signal faces for the adjacent through lane(s) are not displaying a red indication and the red indication in the right-turn signal face is not visibility limited

[jakeroot]

Does anyone have an idea for a viable application of a flashing yellow RIGHT arrow?  I can't think of any (except maybe as a warning to watch for peds in a crosswalk before you turn right).

Right-facing FYA's are the best way to signalized a crosswalk at an intersection with a right-turn bypass lane. Utah has a couple right-facing FYA's for this purpose. You could just as easily install a normal R/Y/G signal face, but that's like putting a stop sign on a merge, the one place where this country routinely installs yield signs.

[paulthemapguy]

From the MUTCD, accompanying a graphic of a R/Y/FY signal head configuration:

These faces would be used if it is intended that a right turn on red after stop be permitted; a RIGHT TURN SIGNAL (R10-10R) sign shall be used with these faces if the red indication is sometimes displayed when the signal faces for the adjacent through lane(s) are not displaying a red indication and the red indication in the right-turn signal face is not visibility limited

In situations where a right turn on red is permitted after a stop, isn't that already implied?

[jeffandnicole]

From the MUTCD, accompanying a graphic of a R/Y/FY signal head configuration:

These faces would be used if it is intended that a right turn on red after stop be permitted; a RIGHT TURN SIGNAL (R10-10R) sign shall be used with these faces if the red indication is sometimes displayed when the signal faces for the adjacent through lane(s) are not displaying a red indication and the red indication in the right-turn signal face is not visibility limited

In situations where a right turn on red is permitted after a stop, isn't that already implied?

The only difference would be some vehicles are prohibited from turning right on red at all times, and some motorists refuse to turn right on red.  A flashing yellow permits those vehicles to turn. 

A yield sign would probably work just as well.  The only real reason this light is here is probably for the pedestrian crossing.

[spooky]

From the MUTCD, accompanying a graphic of a R/Y/FY signal head configuration:

These faces would be used if it is intended that a right turn on red after stop be permitted; a RIGHT TURN SIGNAL (R10-10R) sign shall be used with these faces if the red indication is sometimes displayed when the signal faces for the adjacent through lane(s) are not displaying a red indication and the red indication in the right-turn signal face is not visibility limited

In situations where a right turn on red is permitted after a stop, isn't that already implied?

Yes. I can only see it being useful in areas where it is important to confirm that drivers can make a right turn on red, such as a busy right turn where you need the capacity provided by RTOR.

[mrsman]

From the MUTCD, accompanying a graphic of a R/Y/FY signal head configuration:

These faces would be used if it is intended that a right turn on red after stop be permitted; a RIGHT TURN SIGNAL (R10-10R) sign shall be used with these faces if the red indication is sometimes displayed when the signal faces for the adjacent through lane(s) are not displaying a red indication and the red indication in the right-turn signal face is not visibility limited

In situations where a right turn on red is permitted after a stop, isn't that already implied?

The only difference would be some vehicles are prohibited from turning right on red at all times, and some motorists refuse to turn right on red.  A flashing yellow permits those vehicles to turn. 

A yield sign would probably work just as well.  The only real reason this light is here is probably for the pedestrian crossing.

That's right.  For the Utah signal referenced above, the red light means do not proceed at all - to allow pedestrians to cross safely when they have a walk signal.  The green arrow would give the right turners absolute right of way.  And the flashing yellow would indicate yield, there would be other traffic coming your way and you may proceed to join them, so long as you yield.

I've also seen a flashsing yellow right arrow used to indicate yield to pedestrians at a particularly bad corner (as far as sightlines are concerned) in Los Angeles (Venice/Robertson).

The problem is that all of these new meanings add new meaning to what the FYA is supposed to mean.  It's no longer limited to left turn permitted after yielding to ONCOMING traffic.  It can also mean a general yield.  And this is of course different from FY ball which indicates caution (but maintaining right of way as opposed to yielding).

[UCFKnights]

From the MUTCD, accompanying a graphic of a R/Y/FY signal head configuration:

These faces would be used if it is intended that a right turn on red after stop be permitted; a RIGHT TURN SIGNAL (R10-10R) sign shall be used with these faces if the red indication is sometimes displayed when the signal faces for the adjacent through lane(s) are not displaying a red indication and the red indication in the right-turn signal face is not visibility limited

In situations where a right turn on red is permitted after a stop, isn't that already implied?

The only difference would be some vehicles are prohibited from turning right on red at all times, and some motorists refuse to turn right on red.  A flashing yellow permits those vehicles to turn. 

A yield sign would probably work just as well.  The only real reason this light is here is probably for the pedestrian crossing.

That's right.  For the Utah signal referenced above, the red light means do not proceed at all - to allow pedestrians to cross safely when they have a walk signal.  The green arrow would give the right turners absolute right of way.  And the flashing yellow would indicate yield, there would be other traffic coming your way and you may proceed to join them, so long as you yield.

I've also seen a flashsing yellow right arrow used to indicate yield to pedestrians at a particularly bad corner (as far as sightlines are concerned) in Los Angeles (Venice/Robertson).

The problem is that all of these new meanings add new meaning to what the FYA is supposed to mean.  It's no longer limited to left turn permitted after yielding to ONCOMING traffic.  It can also mean a general yield.  And this is of course different from FY ball which indicates caution (but maintaining right of way as opposed to yielding).

But the left FYA already means more then yield to oncoming traffic. The definition is completely consistent with a standard FY ball, just limited to the direction the arrow is pointing. Left turning traffic with a FYA still needs to yield to pedestrians who may have a walk signal. With a FYA, treat it as if there was a FY ball if you are turning in the direction of the arrow, and all the rules and rights of way orders associated with that will still work perfectly. The left turn yield signs and messages are just a reminder of what the normal rule is, just like the left turn yield on green ball signs.

[paulthemapguy]

I don't think this is anything new, but here's a flashing yellow arrow signal in Carson City, Nevada.  A photo I nabbed on my travels, April 2015
(If you look closely you can see the US50-395 sign in the background)

[roadfro]

I don't think this is anything new, but here's a flashing yellow arrow signal in Carson City, Nevada.  A photo I nabbed on my travels, April 2015
(If you look closely you can see the US50-395 sign in the background)

Nope, nothing new. FYAs are spreading all over Nevada, and is now a statewide standard (as opposed to doghouses) for PPLT. In fact, there is/was some grant money (from NDOT?) that was earmarked towards replacing doghouses with FYAs statewide.

Reno was where the FYA concept was first tried out several years ago, but then all their FYAs were removed (after some traffic engineering personnel changes, as I understand it). When the FYA was adopted in the MUTCD (or maybe they had an interim approval...I don't recall), Carson City was the first municipality in Nevada to start implementing them again.

[MisterSG1]

Since this is a long thread and I haven't the time to read through all the posts. I was in Michigan yesterday and seen one, and I thought to myself, what's the actual purpose of these?

With my experience with Michigan in the past, I recall that left turn arrows (what we call advance greens in Ontario) in that state generally happen at the end of a light sequence, unlike here where it is at the beginning (in MOST cases).

But to me a flashing yellow arrow is simply stating the obvious, only make the left turn if it is safe to do so, it's something we are all familiar with when we write our written tests, to me, the idea of a flashing yellow seems to be dumbing down the population, but that's just my opinion.

[GaryV]

With my experience with Michigan in the past, I recall that left turn arrows (what we call advance greens in Ontario) in that state generally happen at the end of a light sequence, unlike here where it is at the beginning (in MOST cases).

With the old flashing red ball in MI, the protected (green arrow) left turn came at the end of the cycle.

With flashing yellow arrow, the protected turn can either be preceding or following the green for thru traffic.  It depends on the location, and sometimes on the particular signal and sequencing.  For example in Oakland County the protected turn is usually preceding.  In neighboring Macomb County, it's usually following.

In my opinion it makes more sense for it to be following, as then a left turner can be assured of getting through the intersection.  But what do I know?

[MisterSG1]

With my experience with Michigan in the past, I recall that left turn arrows (what we call advance greens in Ontario) in that state generally happen at the end of a light sequence, unlike here where it is at the beginning (in MOST cases).

With the old flashing red ball in MI, the protected (green arrow) left turn came at the end of the cycle.

With flashing yellow arrow, the protected turn can either be preceding or following the green for thru traffic.  It depends on the location, and sometimes on the particular signal and sequencing.  For example in Oakland County the protected turn is usually preceding.  In neighboring Macomb County, it's usually following.

In my opinion it makes more sense for it to be following, as then a left turner can be assured of getting through the intersection.  But what do I know?

I address this question to GaryV or any other Michigander, or even anyone who knows.

Did every left turn arrow situation in the past have the flashing red ball? On that same topic, are there cases in Michigan where the left turning traffic gets a green arrow, and the main light going that particular direction has a green? Basically, if you don't know what I mean, suppose the light sequence is running for NB-SB, NB's light turns to red, while SB's light stays on green and the green arrow comes on, does this ever happen in Michigan? With the way you answered the question, it seemed that arrows were only given in protected situations, where turning traffic had the intersection to themselves.

[GaryV]

I hope I understand the question.

Not every intersection had permissive left turns - and some would have them only at off-peak hours.  In that case the left turn light worked like a normal cycle - Green Arrow, Yellow Ball, Red Ball.  There was no flashing red ball.  You couldn't turn when the thru signal was green, you had to wait for your green arrow.

Some places would turn the green arrow on while the green ball was still on for thru traffic.  In the same direction of course, not the opposite! 

Some intersections are equipped with sensors to determine whether there are any cars waiting to turn left.  If no one is waiting, you don't need to use that part of the cycle.  That happened both before and after changing from FRB to FYA, but it's more common with the latter as the technologies are installed together.

[cl94]

In the case of New York and Massachusetts, FYAs provide an opportunity that did not formerly exist, as neither state had a PPLT system that could work as protected-only. In New York, a lot of the ones I've seen in Regions 2 and 4 replaced protected-only setups, with R4 starting to use them in place of doghouses and in permissive-only locations as well. R4 is the only place in the state I know of outside of NYC that uses the three-section permissive-only version (left turn on NY 33 near I-490, right turn on US 20/NY 5 in Geneva). Region 1, on the other hand, swapped FYAs in where doghouses were in most, if not all, locations that currently use FYAs. I don't know about the three on NY 5S in R2 (all former protected-only that now operate protected-permissive), but some of the ones in R4 do change the operating pattern based on the time of day. Massachusetts, as has been stated earlier, is changing all state-maintained doghouses to FYAs because of the flexibility and safety improvements.

[traffic light guy]

Yeah... PA doesn't seem to be a state to jump on the latest "bandwagon"s (so to speak)

True, there are still a handful of doghouses left in the Philadelphia area, while other states switched to Bi-modules and yellow traps. Hec, they dont even bother to add a red arrow on their turn signals placed outside of major cities.

[David Jr.]

Mount Vernon, MO now has a flashing yellow arrow at the intersection of BL I-44 (Mt. Vernon Blvd.) and MO 39 (Spring Park Blvd.).  it also serves the parking lot to a new Walmart at that intersection.  The FYA signal from Walmart to turn left onto BL I-44 has no green arrow.

[mrsman]

I have finally seen a flashing yellow arrow in the District of Columbia. 

I believe it is the only one in the city.

It is on H Street, N.E. eastbound at the intersection with Maryland Avenue and Benning Road.

There's one on Connecticut Avenue NW at DuPont Circle.

While both signals do mean yield, they do come in different contexts.  FYA is to denote the permitted left turn, yield to oncoming traffic.  Dupont Cirlce has FYA to the right and they are terrrible.  There is no protected phase at all for some of the turners.  You have a no turn on red that means you can't turn even at times when traffic is clear and get a FYA when traffic is still going through the circle.  Extremely dangerous. 

What they should do is allow for a right turn green signal when traffic on the circle has a red.  Those turning right should be reminded to yield to pedestrians, but they need their own phase to go through the circle.

I was wondering when I would hear of people trying to use the flashing yellow concept for right turns.  It doesn't really make sense to have a flashing yellow right arrow when the green ball is lit, since someone turning right would have the right of way anyway, unless maybe there's a crosswalk to the right?  I couldn't see use for a red ball with a flashing right yellow arrow, either--if a right turn is permitted on green, it's usually because traffic from the right is turning left, forming two concentric turning movements...so you would just instate a green right arrow in that case.

Does anyone have an idea for a viable application of a flashing yellow RIGHT arrow?  I can't think of any (except maybe as a warning to watch for peds in a crosswalk before you turn right).

I just now witnessed a good case for a FYA right turn signal.  As mentioned above, in a situation where there is a left green arrow being lit, the corresponding right turn would have a green right arrow, since the left turn and right turn form two concentric turning movements and do not conflict with each other.  In some states, like California, no u-turn is permitted whenever the corresponding right turn has a green arrow so that there is no conflict between the movements.

However, Maryland generally allows U-turns even in such a situation.  I just witnessed a near collision where one driver is rushing to make a right turn with the arrow while someone else is making the U-turn and both drivers see a green arrow favoring their movement.  This intersection also has a no turn on red sign for the right turners.  Now, in some states they make clear that U-turners are to yield to right turners, but I believe that generally the right turners should yield to the u-turners, otherwise u-turners may block the people trying to make a left turn.  Even if there is concern for drivers generally making a right turn on red here, I beleive that people should be allowed to turn right while the corresponding left turn has a green, but they should yield to any u-turners and not assume that they have absolute right of way (which is what a  green arrow would indicate).

So, to make this clear, instead of a green arrow lit when left turners and u-turners have a green arrow, give these right turners a flashing yellow arrow. 

The phases of the signal: (cross-street left turn has a leading phase)

Green ball;                                           cross-street red                              (right turn OK, yielding to pedestrians)
Yellow ball;                                           cross-street red
Red ball;                                              cross-street red (1 second all red)

Red ball & flashing yellow right arrow;    cross-street green left arrow;            (right turn OK, yielding to anyone making a U-turn)
Red ball & steady yellow arrow;              cross-street yellow left arrow;

Red ball;                                             cross-street green                      (right turn on red [if allowed] yielding to traffic and pedestrians on the cross-street)
Red ball;                                             cross-street yellow
Red ball;                                              cross-street red (1 second all red)

[Katavia]

I'm down in NC at the moment and have been through a few intersections with these lights. It looks like it provides a similar traffic control pattern that "doghouse" style signals do, but for dedicated protected left turn lanes. I haven't seen any in NJ yet even thought they are apparently installed there somewhere, I guess I should look for the accident debris. Anyone else see these signals pop up in their neighborhood?

If you went to Concord, you might have seen a flashing yellow RIGHT turn light. (US 29-601 at Cabarrus Avenue)