Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[Amtrakprod]

I'm fairly certain waiting in the intersection is legal in almost every state. Waiting in the intersection is actually a good practice for traffic flow, since it guarantees two cars will be able to turn left on the yellow light, even in heavy oncoming traffic. In Salt Lake, you'll probably get honked at if you don't pull forward.

Here's how the Department of Licensing interprets the law in the Driver Guide: "Drivers must not enter an intersection unless they can get through it without having to stop.

[MNHighwayMan]

I'm fairly certain waiting in the intersection is legal in almost every state. Waiting in the intersection is actually a good practice for traffic flow, since it guarantees two cars will be able to turn left on the yellow light, even in heavy oncoming traffic. In Salt Lake, you'll probably get honked at if you don't pull forward.

No, it's not good practice. Waiting in the intersection creates gridlock. There's even a sign for reminding drivers of the prohibition, R10-7.

[vdeane]

How does waiting in the intersection for a gap in oncoming traffic to make a turn create gridlock?  You're guaranteed to get a gap eventually - when the light goes red.  If you don't wait, however, you might never get to go if there is no protected phase.  Going into the intersection when the place you're headed to is blocked ("blocking the box"), on the other hand, is a big issue.

[MNHighwayMan]

Going into the intersection when the place you're headed to is blocked ("blocking the box"), on the other hand, is a big issue.

This is what I was referring to. Sorry for any confusion. I read US 89's post wrong.

[Amtrakprod]

I'm fairly certain waiting in the intersection is legal in almost every state. Waiting in the intersection is actually a good practice for traffic flow, since it guarantees two cars will be able to turn left on the yellow light, even in heavy oncoming traffic. In Salt Lake, you'll probably get honked at if you don't pull forward.

No, it's not good practice. Waiting in the intersection creates gridlock. There's even a sign for reminding drivers of the prohibition, R10-7.

I think I prefer my sign:
Screen Shot 2018-11-22 at 8.33.35 AM by Petru Sofio, on Flickr

[US 89]

Now I’m confused. Are we talking about waiting in the intersection for a gap in traffic to turn left, or are we talking about blocking the box? I see no problem with the former, while the latter causes significant issues.

If Amtrakprod’s original post was talking about blocking the box, there’s already a sign for that, as MNHighwayMan mentioned:

[Amtrakprod]

Now I'm confused. Are we talking about waiting in the intersection for a gap in traffic to turn left, or are we talking about blocking the box? I see no problem with the former, while the latter causes significant issues.

If Amtrakprod's original post was talking about blocking the box, there's already a sign for that, as MNHighwayMan mentioned:

I was talking about waiting in the intersection for a gap in traffic


iPhone

[Amtrakprod]

The only other sign I found similar is this one which I find dangerous:


iPhone

[jakeroot]

Oh fuck not again. We've covered this extensively.

Waiting for a gap in the intersection is not illegal. Amtrakprod, a driver's guide is not a legally binding set of rules.

In states with restrictive yellow laws, you may be ticketed for being in the intersection on red. But it's only a few states, and even in those, it's not strictly illegal to wait in the intersection. Apparently you just have to find a gap before the end. Which is dumb but whatever.

In most states, the color of the signal is not relevant so long as you crossed the stop line on green or yellow, and that you leave when a gap is available. If you enter and cannot leave due to the desired road being saturated with cars, that's blocking the box and is ticketable.

The sign you posted (from Oregon, and one I posted previously) still permits waiting in the intersection, it just requires you to turn before the end. Again, still stupid, but whatever.

In Washington, some drivers pull forward, some don't. But it's very legal. In BC (and as in the rest of Canada), pulling forward is basically mandatory and you will be yelled and gestured at for not pulling forward.

[Tonytone]

Oh fuck not again. We've covered this extensively.

Waiting for a gap in the intersection is not illegal. Amtrakprod, a driver's guide is not a legally binding set of rules.

In states with restrictive yellow laws, you may be ticketed for being in the intersection on red. But it's only a few states, and even in those, it's not strictly illegal to wait in the intersection. Apparently you just have to find a gap before the end. Which is dumb but whatever.

In most states, the color of the signal is not relevant so long as you crossed the stop line on green or yellow, and that you leave when a gap is available. If you enter and cannot leave due to the desired road being saturated with cars, that's blocking the box and is ticketable.

The sign you posted (from Oregon, and one I posted previously) still permits waiting in the intersection, it just requires you to turn before the end. Again, still stupid, but whatever.

In Washington, some drivers pull forward, some don't. But it's very legal. In BC (and as in the rest of Canada), pulling forward is basically mandatory and you will be yelled and gestured at for not pulling forward.

why do certain dots make turning such a hard thing to do. Its simple & adding more signs like that, at an intersection will probably cause an accident, do you go or stop. Idk cause you cant turn on yellow.


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[jakeroot]

why do certain dots make turning such a hard thing to do. Its simple & adding more signs like that, at an intersection will probably cause an accident, do you go or stop. Idk cause you cant turn on yellow.

That is a great question! Signs like that do nothing but exacerbate backups and create anxiety.

[Amtrakprod]

Oh fuck not again. We've covered this extensively.

Waiting for a gap in the intersection is not illegal. Amtrakprod, a driver's guide is not a legally binding set of rules.

In states with restrictive yellow laws, you may be ticketed for being in the intersection on red. But it's only a few states, and even in those, it's not strictly illegal to wait in the intersection. Apparently you just have to find a gap before the end. Which is dumb but whatever.

In most states, the color of the signal is not relevant so long as you crossed the stop line on green or yellow, and that you leave when a gap is available. If you enter and cannot leave due to the desired road being saturated with cars, that's blocking the box and is ticketable.

The sign you posted (from Oregon, and one I posted previously) still permits waiting in the intersection, it just requires you to turn before the end. Again, still stupid, but whatever.

In Washington, some drivers pull forward, some don't. But it's very legal. In BC (and as in the rest of Canada), pulling forward is basically mandatory and you will be yelled and gestured at for not pulling forward.

Jake did you read my post, my drivers guide did state that waiting in the intersection is illegal


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[US 89]

Ummm...

Amtrakprod, a driver's guide is not a legally binding set of rules.

[Amtrakprod]

Ummm...

Amtrakprod, a driver's guide is not a legally binding set of rules.

Oops looks like I skimmed that section, my bad. Still trying to find a better source because it's not easy to search the MUTCD


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[MNHighwayMan]

Oops looks like I skimmed that section, my bad. Still trying to find a better source because it's not easy to search the MUTCD

MUTCD isn't going to say anything either. You'd need to search each state's set of driving statutes.

[Amtrakprod]

Oops looks like I skimmed that section, my bad. Still trying to find a better source because it's not easy to search the MUTCD

MUTCD isn't going to say anything either. You'd need to search each state's set of driving statutes.

I know in IL it's illegal, anyways whether it's legal or not, is the sign clear?


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[jakeroot]

I know in IL it's illegal, anyways whether it's legal or not, is the sign clear?

I've never seen a legal statute that directly proclaimed waiting in the intersection to be illegal. You'll need to cite the IL book of laws if you intend to convince us.

[Amtrakprod]

I know in IL it's illegal, anyways whether it's legal or not, is the sign clear?

I've never seen a legal statute that directly proclaimed waiting in the intersection to be illegal. You'll need to cite the IL book of laws if you intend to convince us.

From the Chicago Tribute(https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2014-01-31-ct-schmich-met-0131-20140131-story.html) A while back I got a ticket for making a right turn in front of an interminably stopped bus. Part of my penance – yes, I repent – involved attending the traffic school administered by Northwestern University's Center for Public Safety. I chose the four-hour online course, during which I stumbled upon this revelation about driving in Illinois:

"You should not proceed into the intersection on a green light until you see that you can safely make your turn."

[7/8]

I know in IL it's illegal, anyways whether it's legal or not, is the sign clear?

I've never seen a legal statute that directly proclaimed waiting in the intersection to be illegal. You'll need to cite the IL book of laws if you intend to convince us.

From the Chicago Tribute(https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2014-01-31-ct-schmich-met-0131-20140131-story.html) A while back I got a ticket for making a right turn in front of an interminably stopped bus. Part of my penance – yes, I repent – involved attending the traffic school administered by Northwestern University's Center for Public Safety. I chose the four-hour online course, during which I stumbled upon this revelation about driving in Illinois:

"You should not proceed into the intersection on a green light until you see that you can safely make your turn."

That same article also says this:

To be clear, and even though the online course doesn't tell you this: The law does, indeed, permit you to enter the intersection on green even if you can't immediately turn.

And, as several readers noted, it's legal to turn left on red if you're already in the intersection when the light changes.

It's interesting that new drivers in IL are taught not to enter the intersection. In Ontario, they teach us to enter the intersection (which I think is better since it guarantees that some drivers can make it through at the end of each cycle).

[Amtrakprod]

I know in IL it's illegal, anyways whether it's legal or not, is the sign clear?

I've never seen a legal statute that directly proclaimed waiting in the intersection to be illegal. You'll need to cite the IL book of laws if you intend to convince us.

From the Chicago Tribute(https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2014-01-31-ct-schmich-met-0131-20140131-story.html) A while back I got a ticket for making a right turn in front of an interminably stopped bus. Part of my penance – yes, I repent – involved attending the traffic school administered by Northwestern University's Center for Public Safety. I chose the four-hour online course, during which I stumbled upon this revelation about driving in Illinois:

"You should not proceed into the intersection on a green light until you see that you can safely make your turn."

That same article also says this:

To be clear, and even though the online course doesn't tell you this: The law does, indeed, permit you to enter the intersection on green even if you can't immediately turn.

And, as several readers noted, it's legal to turn left on red if you're already in the intersection when the light changes.

It's interesting that new drivers in IL are taught not to enter the intersection. In Ontario, they teach us to enter the intersection (which I think is better since it guarantees that some drivers can make it through at the end of each cycle).

I'm predicting Illinois is trying to phase out that law, they do not make big changes a lot.

[Tonytone]

I think those signs are more for people that try to turn left, AFTER the person who is in the intersection WAITING to turn, does so. (When the light is changing to red) People like to follow run the light when it turns yellow. But it may cause more issues, because some people get clusterfucked with alot of things to look at.


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[jakeroot]

I'm very confused that Illinois is even being mentioned here. I've driven in Chicago several times, and everyone pulls forward to wait to turn left. Anyone here can go onto Google Street View and see as much. It's one of the few jurisdictions I've driven in, besides California and British Columbia, where 100% of drivers pull forward to wait.

I'm predicting Illinois is trying to phase out that law, they do not make big changes a lot.

What evidence do you have to support this? You know as well as I do that all drivers turn from the middle of the intersection in Illinois.

It's interesting that new drivers in IL are taught not to enter the intersection. In Ontario, they teach us to enter the intersection (which I think is better since it guarantees that some drivers can make it through at the end of each cycle).

That online driving school is not representative of recommend practices. They are often the same test barely modified for each state. Obviously that section should have been removed as it is very legal and taught in most driving schools in the US.

[kphoger]

I'm very confused that Illinois is even being mentioned here. I've driven in Chicago several times, and everyone pulls forward to wait to turn left. Anyone here can go onto Google Street View and see as much. It's one of the few jurisdictions I've driven in, besides California and British Columbia, where 100% of drivers pull forward to wait.

Chicago has been famous for an absence of left-turn arrows, and even today they have very few of them.  If you want to drive in Chicago and not pull forward to wait for a gap–then your route had better not include any left turns!  It's common for three drivers to turn left as soon as the light turns red:  two waiting in the intersection, followed by one more who was behind the stop line but just can't bear the thought of waiting any longer.  It's even common out in the suburbs.

I'm predicting Illinois is trying to phase out that law, they do not make big changes a lot.

Why are you predicting that?  Because of a newspaper article?  Because of driver's education recommendations?  None of those things have anything to do with state law.

[kphoger]

Is it my bad memory, or did a lot of people on here dislike the introduction of the FYA nine years ago or whenever that was?  I don't hear anybody complain about them anymore, though.

[Amtrakprod]

Is it my bad memory, or did a lot of people on here dislike the introduction of the FYA nine years ago or whenever that was?  I don't hear anybody complain about them anymore, though.

Maybe someday, the hawk will be like that lmao, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's out of the MUTCD this year.