Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[Amtrakprod]

^^^^
I'm getting a sort of California vibe from that install. Curved mast arm and post-mounted supplemental signals. Nice work, NH.

Minus CT and VT, New England is really stepping up its traffic light game from the worst area to the best. It's kind of incredible!


iPhone

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Permissive FYAs with a leading pedestrian interval in Brooklyn. The left turn signals are red for a few seconds before flashing yellow for peds to get a head start. This inteesection is also skewed

https://maps.app.goo.gl/i39V4JP3PnpztpFm7

[jakeroot]

^^^^
I'm getting a sort of California vibe from that install. Curved mast arm and post-mounted supplemental signals. Nice work, NH.

Minus CT and VT, New England is really stepping up its traffic light game from the worst area to the best. It's kind of incredible!

There will always be some stragglers. Lots of places in WA have stepped up their game lately, both in terms of innovation and signal placement. Which is great, as it brings us closer in line with most Western states. Our stragglers would be Oregon and Utah

[Amtrakprod]

I'm just gonna do a quick list not sure if it's correct:
States without FYA(or FRA)
NJ
CT
and that's it!

Anyone know why CT and NJ don't use them?


iPhone

[Stephane Dumas]

The flashing yellow left turn hadn't arrived in the Great White North yet.

[jakeroot]

I'm just gonna do a quick list not sure if it's correct:
States without FYA(or FRA)
NJ
CT
and that's it!

MD as well. They've opted to continue using flashing red arrows instead.

[jakeroot]

The flashing yellow left turn hadn't arrived in the Great White North yet.

Most parts of Canada don't even use red arrows yet. I wouldn't bet on flashing yellow arrows anytime soon!

[US71]

Missouri is kind of hit n miss.They like the doghouse signals. with yellow & green arrow.

[jakeroot]

Missouri is kind of hit n miss.They like the doghouse signals. with yellow & green arrow.

Where I'm from in Washington State, the "yield on green" protected-permissive left turn signal still reigns supreme, but there are a growing number of flashing yellow arrows and they are now the preferred choice for left turns (including those that were formerly protected-only). Question would be whether or not Missouri uses the FYA or not, or if they are still installing 5-section signals** at a higher rate relative to the FYA.

** I'm more cautious in saying "doghouse" because when I lived in downtown St Louis, left-side 5-section towers accompanied the vast majority of overhead doghouse signals (neither was more common since they were installed in pairs).

[Amtrakprod]

I'm just gonna do a quick list not sure if it's correct:
States without FYA(or FRA)
NJ
CT
and that's it!

MD as well. They've opted to continue using flashing red arrows instead.

Well I said "(or FRA)".

[Amtrakprod]

Missouri is kind of hit n miss.They like the doghouse signals. with yellow & green arrow.

Where I'm from in Washington State, the "yield on green" protected-permissive left turn signal still reigns supreme, but there are a growing number of flashing yellow arrows and they are now the preferred choice for left turns (including those that were formerly protected-only). Question would be whether or not Missouri uses the FYA or not, or if they are still installing 5-section signals** at a higher rate relative to the FYA.

** I'm more cautious in saying "doghouse" because when I lived in downtown St Louis, left-side 5-section towers accompanied the vast majority of overhead doghouse signals (neither was more common since they were installed in pairs).

Right now FYA and Doghouse left turn signals are about even in MA, but that is changing fast. No installation in the state using 5 sections left turn faces unless it is a straight/left lane.

[jakeroot]

I'm just gonna do a quick list not sure if it's correct:
States without FYA(or FRA)
NJ
CT
and that's it!

MD as well. They've opted to continue using flashing red arrows instead.

Well I said "(or FRA)".

Shit, yeah. My mind blanked over it. Thanks.

[fwydriver405]

For years, I've always wondered why "left turn yield on green" 5-section (or 4-section bimodal) signals are still allowed and used in the 2009 MUTCD as an option for permissive/protected approaches with a dedicated left-turn lane, especially when FYA's:

1. Prevent the yellow trap that existing "left turn yield on green" signals cause*.
2. Have more phasing flexibilities, such as TOD phasing, and allowing left turns anytime the oncoming thru green is lit.
3. Can operate independently from other movements, such as for LPI phasing.
4. Like protected-only signals, the left turn lane has their own signal, and not shared indications like existing PPLT signals are.

Second, even when states like mine (MaineDOT) approve the FYA for use in their state, I wonder why some city and state DOTs continue to install "left turn yield on green" protected/permissive signals for left turns with dedicated turning lanes. Especially in my state, the primary cause of the yellow trap is due to phase skip...

Finally, I am also curious if any and all "left turn yield on green" PPLT signal assemblies for any permissive movements with a dedicated left-turn lane will be phased out completely, and make FYA mandatory for all permissive movements with a dedicated turning lane in the next edition of the MUTCD. Furthermore, could/would FYA treatments for single or shared left/thru lane approaches be expanded to those situations (i.e. in the form of a 5-section FYA signal)? If a 5-section FYA signal is allowed, lead-lag operation with single or shared left/thru lane approaches would be possible by removing the yellow trap hazard...

*Yes, I know that single lead or lead-lead phasing is perfectly safe with existing "left turn yield on green" signals, but that only applies if the signals don't skip phases or terminate the greens for any and all kinds of preemptions. Again, those two things are pretty common in Maine even on new non-FYA installations...

[Amtrakprod]

For years, I've always wondered why "left turn yield on green" 5-section (or 4-section bimodal) signals are still allowed and used in the 2009 MUTCD as an option for permissive/protected approaches with a dedicated left-turn lane, especially when FYA's:

1. Prevent the yellow trap that existing "left turn yield on green" signals cause*.
2. Have more phasing flexibilities, such as TOD phasing, and allowing left turns anytime the oncoming thru green is lit.
3. Can operate independently from other movements, such as for LPI phasing.
4. Like protected-only signals, the left turn lane has their own signal, and not shared indications like existing PPLT signals are.

Second, even when states like mine (MaineDOT) approve the FYA for use in their state, I wonder why some city and state DOTs continue to install "left turn yield on green" protected/permissive signals for left turns with dedicated turning lanes. Especially in my state, the primary cause of the yellow trap is due to phase skip...

Finally, I am also curious if any and all "left turn yield on green" PPLT signal assemblies for any permissive movements with a dedicated left-turn lane will be phased out completely, and make FYA mandatory for all permissive movements with a dedicated turning lane in the next edition of the MUTCD. Furthermore, could/would FYA treatments for single or shared left/thru lane approaches be expanded to those situations (i.e. in the form of a 5-section FYA signal)? If a 5-section FYA signal is allowed, lead-lag operation with single or shared left/thru lane approaches would be possible by removing the yellow trap hazard...

*Yes, I know that single lead or lead-lead phasing is perfectly safe with existing "left turn yield on green" signals, but that only applies if the signals don't skip phases or terminate the greens for any and all kinds of preemptions. Again, those two things are pretty common in Maine even on new non-FYA installations...

If there is a shared left and straight lane, then 5 section signals are to be used. That's how it works on MassDot. Otherwise it's FYAn


iPhone

[mrsman]

For years, I've always wondered why "left turn yield on green" 5-section (or 4-section bimodal) signals are still allowed and used in the 2009 MUTCD as an option for permissive/protected approaches with a dedicated left-turn lane, especially when FYA's:

1. Prevent the yellow trap that existing "left turn yield on green" signals cause*.
2. Have more phasing flexibilities, such as TOD phasing, and allowing left turns anytime the oncoming thru green is lit.
3. Can operate independently from other movements, such as for LPI phasing.
4. Like protected-only signals, the left turn lane has their own signal, and not shared indications like existing PPLT signals are.

Second, even when states like mine (MaineDOT) approve the FYA for use in their state, I wonder why some city and state DOTs continue to install "left turn yield on green" protected/permissive signals for left turns with dedicated turning lanes. Especially in my state, the primary cause of the yellow trap is due to phase skip...

Finally, I am also curious if any and all "left turn yield on green" PPLT signal assemblies for any permissive movements with a dedicated left-turn lane will be phased out completely, and make FYA mandatory for all permissive movements with a dedicated turning lane in the next edition of the MUTCD. Furthermore, could/would FYA treatments for single or shared left/thru lane approaches be expanded to those situations (i.e. in the form of a 5-section FYA signal)? If a 5-section FYA signal is allowed, lead-lag operation with single or shared left/thru lane approaches would be possible by removing the yellow trap hazard...

*Yes, I know that single lead or lead-lead phasing is perfectly safe with existing "left turn yield on green" signals, but that only applies if the signals don't skip phases or terminate the greens for any and all kinds of preemptions. Again, those two things are pretty common in Maine even on new non-FYA installations...

I can definitely see a trend towards more and more FYAs.  And the 5-section FYA does seem like a good solution for the shared lanes.

(I'm assuming that means:
                              Red
Yellow arrow                                  - Yellow orb
Bimodal green/flashing yellow arrow - green orb)

BUt I also recognize the costs involved and would probably see that existing signalizations can remain in place and not be forced to substitute the new FYA.  Although I agree that the 4 and 5 section FYAs allow the most flexibility and if they are installed, you can change the signalization on the fly and not have to rewire any hardware to the extent that you change the rules, like requiring left on arrow only or to now allow permissive turning at the intersection.

That being said.  Please CA replace all of your exiting RA-YA-GA signal faces with 4 section FYAs.  You don't have to operate the flashing yellow arrow yet, just be prepared to do it so that we can allow for the possibility of permissive left turns at certain times of day based on careful study of the intersections involved.

[fwydriver405]

That being said.  Please CA replace all of your exiting RA-YA-GA signal faces with 4 section FYAs.  You don't have to operate the flashing yellow arrow yet, just be prepared to do it so that we can allow for the possibility of permissive left turns at certain times of day based on careful study of the intersections involved.

Not sure if this pertains to your request, but FHWA has Interim Approval 17 out in the open for "Optional Use of Three-Section Flashing Yellow Arrow Signal Faces". Basically, the middle yellow lens of a normal protected only signal that is normally used for clearance, is also used for the permissive movement under this condition. Not sure if CA's MUTCD would allow such existing protected-only installs to use this new option.

Example from jakeroot:

[capt.ron]

^^^^
I'm getting a sort of California vibe from that install. Curved mast arm and post-mounted supplemental signals. Nice work, NH.

I like the curved mast arm. I even see those in all places in Arkansas where the weigh stations are.
But to get back on topic, Arkansas has had those [flashing yellow arrows] for at least 3 years now. New signal installations have them. A lot of people don't understand them though.

[jakeroot]

But to get back on topic, Arkansas has had those [flashing yellow arrows] for at least 3 years now. New signal installations have them. A lot of people don't understand them though.

What's the main issue that you've witnessed?

One issue I've seen with Puget Sound-area FYAs is that, because the red arrow is on during the advanced walk phase in many cities, but only if a pedestrian activates the button*, some drivers will creep forward without realizing that the red arrow is on, because they're otherwise used to yielding and just don't see that the FYA isn't on.

* In timed areas, the FYA remains active during the walk phase. Otherwise there'd be no reason for the FYA.

[Bitmapped]

I'm just gonna do a quick list not sure if it's correct:
States without FYA(or FRA)
NJ
CT
and that's it!

Anyone know why CT and NJ don't use them?


iPhone

WV doesn't have any.

[MASTERNC]

For years, I've always wondered why "left turn yield on green" 5-section (or 4-section bimodal) signals are still allowed and used in the 2009 MUTCD as an option for permissive/protected approaches with a dedicated left-turn lane, especially when FYA's:

1. Prevent the yellow trap that existing "left turn yield on green" signals cause*.
2. Have more phasing flexibilities, such as TOD phasing, and allowing left turns anytime the oncoming thru green is lit.
3. Can operate independently from other movements, such as for LPI phasing.
4. Like protected-only signals, the left turn lane has their own signal, and not shared indications like existing PPLT signals are.

Second, even when states like mine (MaineDOT) approve the FYA for use in their state, I wonder why some city and state DOTs continue to install "left turn yield on green" protected/permissive signals for left turns with dedicated turning lanes. Especially in my state, the primary cause of the yellow trap is due to phase skip...

Finally, I am also curious if any and all "left turn yield on green" PPLT signal assemblies for any permissive movements with a dedicated left-turn lane will be phased out completely, and make FYA mandatory for all permissive movements with a dedicated turning lane in the next edition of the MUTCD. Furthermore, could/would FYA treatments for single or shared left/thru lane approaches be expanded to those situations (i.e. in the form of a 5-section FYA signal)? If a 5-section FYA signal is allowed, lead-lag operation with single or shared left/thru lane approaches would be possible by removing the yellow trap hazard...

*Yes, I know that single lead or lead-lead phasing is perfectly safe with existing "left turn yield on green" signals, but that only applies if the signals don't skip phases or terminate the greens for any and all kinds of preemptions. Again, those two things are pretty common in Maine even on new non-FYA installations...

I can definitely see a trend towards more and more FYAs.  And the 5-section FYA does seem like a good solution for the shared lanes.

(I'm assuming that means:
                              Red
Yellow arrow                                  - Yellow orb
Bimodal green/flashing yellow arrow - green orb)

BUt I also recognize the costs involved and would probably see that existing signalizations can remain in place and not be forced to substitute the new FYA.  Although I agree that the 4 and 5 section FYAs allow the most flexibility and if they are installed, you can change the signalization on the fly and not have to rewire any hardware to the extent that you change the rules, like requiring left on arrow only or to now allow permissive turning at the intersection.

That being said.  Please CA replace all of your exiting RA-YA-GA signal faces with 4 section FYAs.  You don't have to operate the flashing yellow arrow yet, just be prepared to do it so that we can allow for the possibility of permissive left turns at certain times of day based on careful study of the intersections involved.

PA is still mainly using the doghouse 5 section signals instead of FYAs, even when they are replacing signals. FYA is used rarely. Makes no sense.

[jeffandnicole]

I'm just gonna do a quick list not sure if it's correct:
States without FYA(or FRA)
NJ
CT
and that's it!

MD as well. They've opted to continue using flashing red arrows instead.

DE opts for the flashing red arrow when appropriate also.

When i brought this question up to someone at NJDOT one time, they said it was due to driver expectation.

NJ can be very reluctant to switch to a new traffic control method. Other things, they are very much on the forefront of, or like to do in their own unique way.

Even in States using the FYA, I would say most intersections still don't use it. And yet, people make their left turns without a problem. This seems to be more about hype with a new traffic control function. The same hype existed for SPUIs, until DDIs came along. Now, the latest fad is the FYA.

[Mr. Matté]

Well, I think I spotted a flashing yellow arrow in New Jersey today! Unfortunately, it's not on a divided state highway's left turn for which there is good sight distance like NJ 33 and Milford Road (which I used to use daily and will be going back to doing every other week starting the week after next).

It's for a right turn when a yield sign could probably be more than sufficient: CR 529 / Ethel Road in Piscataway, GSV from before its activation: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5333027,-74.4194722,3a,47.5y,200.7h,87.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgqw481rS8VoiDYIoC5TCiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[jeffandnicole]

Well, I think I spotted a flashing yellow arrow in New Jersey today! Unfortunately, it's not on a divided state highway's left turn for which there is good sight distance like NJ 33 and Milford Road (which I used to use daily and will be going back to doing every other week starting the week after next).

It's for a right turn when a yield sign could probably be more than sufficient: CR 529 / Ethel Road in Piscataway, GSV from before its activation: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5333027,-74.4194722,3a,47.5y,200.7h,87.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgqw481rS8VoiDYIoC5TCiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Well that's a significant development!

I'm gonna say this may be more of an experimental (for NJ) signal, although with the crosswalk signal in the turn lane a yield sign wouldn't be sufficient.

[Amtrakprod]

Well, I think I spotted a flashing yellow arrow in New Jersey today! Unfortunately, it's not on a divided state highway's left turn for which there is good sight distance like NJ 33 and Milford Road (which I used to use daily and will be going back to doing every other week starting the week after next).

It's for a right turn when a yield sign could probably be more than sufficient: CR 529 / Ethel Road in Piscataway, GSV from before its activation: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5333027,-74.4194722,3a,47.5y,200.7h,87.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgqw481rS8VoiDYIoC5TCiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Oh my gosh!!! Piscataway too (which is the place I know best in NJ!)! This is insane! Great job (not really they were really late to install this), but still a nice installation. Wish they put FYAs for the left turns too but still really significant.


iPhone

[SignBridge]

New York DOT Region-10 on Long Island is going crazy installing FYA's at a lot of intersections in Nassau County whether they're needed or not. They're doing a lot of serious overkill. What's ironic about this is that the FHWA created the FYA primarily to deal with the issue of Dallas Phasing. In that set-up a green-ball appears over the left-turn lane at the same time that the thru lanes are red.

It will be interesting to see if the number of left turning accidents decreases at all these intersections in Nassau County, N.Y. where FYA's have been installed. Or if they stay about the same.