New Jersey

[SignBridge]

And what would be the point of any of these revisions besides to further confuse the general public? I have no problem with these route numbers as currently designed.

[famartin]

And what would be the point of any of these revisions besides to further confuse the general public? I have no problem with these route numbers as currently designed.

Logic. Not saying they *need* to be done. Just saying it would be nice for system rules.

[Alps]

NYSDOT originally proposed the eastern piece of I-287 as I-187, which FHWA changed to I-487 before merging it in to I-287 (this predated the other concept for I-487).
http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/ix87.html

An I-x87 number for the LIE would not make any more sense than I-287 does now due to the history of the route (in fact, it makes even less, as it does not intersect I-87 or an I-x87 route anywhere).  NJ 495 was originally I-495 and was intended to cross Manhattan to connect to the part that is still I-495.

Also worth noting that I-495 was to have ended at either I-295 (then I-78) or I-678, with the rest of it just a state route.

[storm2k]

And what would be the point of any of these revisions besides to further confuse the general public? I have no problem with these route numbers as currently designed.

It's not going to happen at this point. Which I clearly said. I was just musing about the historical quirk about the numbering of 287. Given its route and where it's always started and ended (even if it was disjointed for 30+ years), it would have made more sense as an x95. That was all.

Back to more germane matters. Sign project continuing on 440 in Edison/Woodbridge/Perth Amboy. Apparently there are 25 total structures to replace, and they've done 15 of them so far. Also includes a nice photo of them prepping to lift a sign bridge into place.

[roadman65]

What difference does this make if it's I-287 or I-295? Everyone seems to get all bent out of shape when someone makes a suggestion that is plausible, but has a good reason not to work.

Why can't we have a friendly discussion here and respect other's opinions whether they are good or bad?

[jeffandnicole]

What difference does this make if it's I-287 or I-295? Everyone seems to get all bent out of shape when someone makes a suggestion that is plausible, but has a good reason not to work.

Why can't we have a friendly discussion here and respect other's opinions whether they are good or bad?

Sometimes it's just an unwillingness to think outside of the box, or believing that certain routes are THE main route.  When it comes to 3 digit numbering when a highway connecting two 2-di Interstates together, both 2-dis have equal footing as to which 2 di will be the official parent.

I mentioned several times in the past with the debate about what former I-95 could change to around Trenton, that an I-x76 would work because the PA Turnpike is I-276 in that area, and the route (if the interchange was built on the original timeline) extends from there.  There was a very lukewarm reception to it, even though it absolutely fit within the Interstate numbering guidelines.

To expand on that, the Beltway around Baltimore could've been numbered I-x83 or I-x70.  DC's beltway could've been I-x66.  Using an I-x95 makes sense, and not looking at the timeline of interstate buildings maybe it was the first Interstate in the area so they defaulted to that 2-di, but it wasn't the only option that could've been used.  In Pennsylvania, in similar fashion, I-476 could've been I-x81.

[NJRoadfan]

NYC landed up with the wackiest luck with Interstate numbers. Somehow its the only major city along I-95 to not have a x95 for its beltway. Also most of the spur routes are x78s that don't even connect to the parent route (which barely enters NYC)!

[NE2]

NYC landed up with the wackiest luck with Interstate numbers. Somehow its the only major city along I-95 to not have a x95 for its beltway.

Miami says hi.

[storm2k]

NYC landed up with the wackiest luck with Interstate numbers. Somehow its the only major city along I-95 to not have a x95 for its beltway. Also most of the spur routes are x78s that don't even connect to the parent route (which barely enters NYC)!

The x78 thing is a holdover from the cancellation of 78 through Manhattan and Brooklyn, so that one is pretty easily explained. The idea of 78 through lower Manhattan and Brooklyn stayed on the books for quite a while, hence why so many spur routes throughout the area. Also, 278 was supposed to continue westward in NJ to its parent, but it also got canceled.

[bzakharin]

NYC landed up with the wackiest luck with Interstate numbers. Somehow its the only major city along I-95 to not have a x95 for its beltway. Also most of the spur routes are x78s that don't even connect to the parent route (which barely enters NYC)!

Philadelphia's sort-of beltway is 276 and 476

[jeffandnicole]

NYC landed up with the wackiest luck with Interstate numbers. Somehow its the only major city along I-95 to not have a x95 for its beltway. Also most of the spur routes are x78s that don't even connect to the parent route (which barely enters NYC)!

Philadelphia's sort-of beltway is 276 and 476

The original 'beltway' was intended to be I-295, but with 295 being such a major route mainly in a neighboring state, and with I-95 never being completed as intended north of Trenton, it took on an identity of its own. 

If there was a direct connection with the NJ Tpk PA Connector, and a better connection around the Commodore Barry Bridge area to get from 295 to 476, there could easily be a legit beltway all around Philadelphia.

[bluecountry]

I too dislike the use of Delaware Water Gap. Problem is that I-80 doesn't go to Scranton or Wilkes-Barre. I was gonna suggest State College but I see that 80 doesn't actually go there either, LOL. Yeah, maybe Cleveland. There really just is no satisfactory control city on I-80 in Pa. What does Pa. actually use after you pass I-380?

It's the way to Scranton/WBS, it should be that.

[roadman65]

I see NJDOT gave Route 35 a road diet in Seaside Park. The lane striping turned the left lane near the traffic circle into a shoulder to allow the cars in the median to safely back up.


https://goo.gl/maps/revWfDsqhu9dVoJ76

[storm2k]

I see NJDOT gave Route 35 a road diet in Seaside Park. The lane striping turned the left lane near the traffic circle into a shoulder to allow the cars in the median to safely back up.


https://goo.gl/maps/revWfDsqhu9dVoJ76

Looks like that's been in place since at least 2017, as it goes on the GSV back to there.

[interstate73]

Exit 43B, get rid of White Plains.  If somebody wants to go there, best to take 80 to either the GSP N to 287/87 or the Palisades.

For 80W, get rid of Del Water Gap, I hate that as a control city.  Just use WB/Scranton, PA.

Maybe I have Stockholm Syndrome but I've come to like Del Water Gap personally, it's unique and amongst locals it basically means "Pennsylvania." But if not that I would def go with Scranton, or maybe "The Poconos" since that's such a big getaway destination for the Tri-State.

[roadman65]

Scranton used to be the control city from US 46 along with the Gap prior to the early nineties.  That was because US 611 was the old route of I-80 until 1972 which went there and it took NJDOT twenty years to figure that one out.

Though I-380 went there later, now with this cancel culture stuff in the MUTCD and political correctness in thinking that has NJDOT seems to leaning for proper communities.

[NE2]

Scranton used to be the control city from US 46 along with the Gap prior to the early nineties.  That was because US 611 was the old route of I-80 until 1972 which went there and it took NJDOT twenty years to figure that one out.

Though I-380 went there later, now with this cancel culture stuff in the MUTCD and political correctness in thinking that has NJDOT seems to leaning for proper communities.

What the fuck?

[storm2k]

Scranton used to be the control city from US 46 along with the Gap prior to the early nineties.  That was because US 611 was the old route of I-80 until 1972 which went there and it took NJDOT twenty years to figure that one out.

Though I-380 went there later, now with this cancel culture stuff in the MUTCD and political correctness in thinking that has NJDOT seems to leaning for proper communities.

This comment is really out of place and doesn't belong here.

[Alps]

I am very curious to learn what the MUTCD has to do with any of that stuff...

[roadman65]

Lately the MUTCD has cancelled a lot.  When I mean "Cancel Culture"  in the last election context, but the fact the latest revisions of the MUTCD says a lot over the years that seems to go away with what has always been. The NJ Turnpike forced to redo their classic signs, not more than two control cities per sign, the yellow striped back plates, etc.

There is more to life than politics.  Just like when one famous person says that a group is the Al Qaeda of a moment, he is not referring to extreme Islam.  Just comparing.

I was responding to why most likely Scranton got removed from I-80 in Knowlton Township, NJ. It could be NJDOT thought it was not compliant with the MUTCD.

[famartin]

I was responding to why most likely Scranton got removed from I-80 in Knowlton Township, NJ. It could be NJDOT thought it was not compliant with the MUTCD.

I'm gonna bet no on this one... probably just being consistent with their established control "city".

That said, i wonder if they might be forced to change it... is Del Water Gap actually kosher with MUTCD?  Technically there is a town, but really, we all know they mean the geologic feature.

[artmalk]

It could be signed "80 TO 380" Scranton.

[roadman65]

It could be signed "80 TO 380" Scranton.

Ha Ha

[roadman65]

I was responding to why most likely Scranton got removed from I-80 in Knowlton Township, NJ. It could be NJDOT thought it was not compliant with the MUTCD.

I'm gonna bet no on this one... probably just being consistent with their established control "city".

That said, i wonder if they might be forced to change it... is Del Water Gap actually kosher with MUTCD?  Technically there is a town, but really, we all know they mean the geologic feature.

You sure?

What about the Columbia 7 and Del Water Gap 11 sign near Hope.  The town and Columbia are indeed 4 miles apart.

[famartin]

I was responding to why most likely Scranton got removed from I-80 in Knowlton Township, NJ. It could be NJDOT thought it was not compliant with the MUTCD.

I'm gonna bet no on this one... probably just being consistent with their established control "city".

That said, i wonder if they might be forced to change it... is Del Water Gap actually kosher with MUTCD?  Technically there is a town, but really, we all know they mean the geologic feature.

You sure?

What about the Columbia 7 and Del Water Gap 11 sign near Hope.  The town and Columbia are indeed 4 miles apart.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/40.9292898,-74.9719917/40.9256364,-75.0930967/@40.9310897,-75.0558048,13.46z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
7.2 miles

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/40.9292898,-74.9719917/40.9716397,-75.1255414/@40.9460902,-75.0724233,13.46z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
10.5 rounds to 11

Sure?  No. Reasonably confident? Yes.