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I-69 Ohio River Bridge

Started by truejd, August 05, 2010, 10:32:59 AM

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Rick Powell

Quote from: abqtraveler on August 25, 2021, 09:06:29 AM
There are some significant cost differences between a 4-lane highway (assumed to be non-access controlled) versus a freeway with full access control. The short answer is a freeway will typically be more expensive than a 4-lane highway with partial or no access control, because of the added cost of interchanges, bridges and overpasses, and frontage roads in places along a freeway that wouldn't be required along a 4-lane highway with at-grade intersections and driveway access to adjacent properties.

The cost difference will be lower for rural areas, but that difference will increase as the roadway enters a more developed/urbanized area where there are a greater number of intersecting roads and developed properties adjacent to the highway.

Just out of curiosity I looked at the EIS for I-39 between Normal and Oglesby, IL (completed in 1992) and found that the difference between the E-85 expressway alternative and the freeway Recommended Alternative was about 4%. Granted that the expressway alternative included some interchanges on busier roads. A lot of minor roads crossing the freeway were dead ended rather than intersections developed, so there were some cost savings there. Also, they built the freeway on a half section line, allowing access to most properties from either side, eliminating the need for most frontage roads. So it all depends on the situation, with the I-39 example likely to be a "best case" comparison to justify a freeway vs. an expressway.



sprjus4

Quote from: abqtraveler on August 25, 2021, 09:06:29 AM
There are some significant cost differences between a 4-lane highway (assumed to be non-access controlled) versus a freeway with full access control. The short answer is a freeway will typically be more expensive than a 4-lane highway with partial or no access control, because of the added cost of interchanges, bridges and overpasses, and frontage roads in places along a freeway that wouldn't be required along a 4-lane highway with at-grade intersections and driveway access to adjacent properties.
For a new location facility, access control would've most likely been used regardless. So a limited access right of way would've been needed regardless, along with frontage roads in areas. A true expressway design would also be used, so interchanges at high volume crossings or where a signal would be required, as well, in order to have a free flowing facility. For lower volume intersections, this is where cost savings would be seen the most with having intersections vs. overpasses or in some cases interchanges. But the cost difference likely isn't major. And there's more benefit in the sense of having a full freeway design for a corridor like this - connecting two major cities in the state, apart of a future interstate corridor, etc. So Indiana went ahead and built it as a fully controlled access freeway facility.

Quote
The cost difference will be lower for rural areas, but that difference will increase as the roadway enters a more developed/urbanized area where there are a greater number of intersecting roads and developed properties adjacent to the highway.
Generally, if maintaining a modern expressway / free flow design, you would want to have that sense of access control and limiting busier intersections, so I couldn't see much more being done. I'd imagine even if Evansville to Bloomington was built as an at-grade expressway vs. interstate highway, the section from Bloomington to Indianapolis would still be freeway. Also taking into account much higher traffic volumes that would truly warrant that grade separation and limiting access points.

mvak36

https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/feis-rod-complete/

Quote
Henderson, Ky. (September 22, 2021) — The environmental study for the I-69 Ohio River Crossing (I-69 ORX) is now complete, which will allow Section 1 construction to begin.

I-69 ORX is divided into two sections for construction. I-69 ORX Section 1 focuses on improvements in Henderson and extends from KY 425 to US 60. The Kentucky Transportation Cabinet is overseeing the Section 1 project with construction expected to begin in early 2022 and continue through 2025.

I-69 ORX Section 2 is a bistate project between Indiana and Kentucky that will complete the I-69 connection from US 60 in Henderson to I-69 in Evansville. It includes the new river crossing. Design is expected to begin in 2025 with construction anticipated to begin in 2027 and continue through 2031. Both states continue to look for opportunities to accelerate that timeline.

The last steps of the environmental study were the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) and Record of Decision (ROD), required by the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) for large, federally-funded projects.

The FEIS identifies Central Alternative 1B Modified as the Selected Alternative. It includes a four-lane I-69 bridge and retains one US 41 bridge for local traffic. It includes 11.2 miles of new interstate, including 8.4 miles on new terrain and 2.8 miles of upgrades to US 41. Only the I-69 bridge will be tolled. The ROD is issued by the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) and signifies final approval of the Selected Alternative.

FEIS located at: https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/feis-rod/
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Plutonic Panda

Nice but hopefully funding can be found to expedite section 2.

hbelkins

Still an absolutely stupid idea to eliminate one of the US 41 twin bridges.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

silverback1065

Quote from: hbelkins on September 22, 2021, 11:20:51 PM
Still an absolutely stupid idea to eliminate one of the US 41 twin bridges.

i agree. but it's all about the money here. if money were no object, they would replace both 41 bridges and have 1 new 69 bridge.

GreenLanternCorps

Quote from: mvak36 on September 22, 2021, 10:23:32 PM
https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/feis-rod-complete/

Quote
Henderson, Ky. (September 22, 2021) — The environmental study for the I-69 Ohio River Crossing (I-69 ORX) is now complete, which will allow Section 1 construction to begin.

I-69 ORX is divided into two sections for construction. I-69 ORX Section 1 focuses on improvements in Henderson and extends from KY 425 to US 60. The Kentucky Transportation Cabinet is overseeing the Section 1 project with construction expected to begin in early 2022 and continue through 2025.

I-69 ORX Section 2 is a bistate project between Indiana and Kentucky that will complete the I-69 connection from US 60 in Henderson to I-69 in Evansville. It includes the new river crossing. Design is expected to begin in 2025 with construction anticipated to begin in 2027 and continue through 2031. Both states continue to look for opportunities to accelerate that timeline.

The last steps of the environmental study were the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) and Record of Decision (ROD), required by the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) for large, federally-funded projects.

The FEIS identifies Central Alternative 1B Modified as the Selected Alternative. It includes a four-lane I-69 bridge and retains one US 41 bridge for local traffic. It includes 11.2 miles of new interstate, including 8.4 miles on new terrain and 2.8 miles of upgrades to US 41. Only the I-69 bridge will be tolled. The ROD is issued by the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) and signifies final approval of the Selected Alternative.

FEIS located at: https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/feis-rod/

Nice to see real progress and a date to start some construction (at least as far north as the US 60Interchange).

Map showing sections 1 and 2 from the website:




hbelkins

Quote from: silverback1065 on September 23, 2021, 08:20:55 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 22, 2021, 11:20:51 PM
Still an absolutely stupid idea to eliminate one of the US 41 twin bridges.

i agree. but it's all about the money here. if money were no object, they would replace both 41 bridges and have 1 new 69 bridge.

No need to replace both bridges. They've both had deck work and painting in recent years. And remember, they're demolishing the newer bridge and keeping the older bridge, which is narrower and ... well .... older.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Ryctor2018

I would have thought the timeline would be slightly quicker. Section 1 start/end: 2022-2024. Section 2 start/end: 2025-2029. Maybe the new infrastructure bill will speed up the timeline.
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triplemultiplex

Well this should make it 'shovel ready' to tap into that potential funding stream.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

seicer

Speaking of paint, whoever had the painting contract for bridges in the western half of the state... sucked. The paint isn't more than a decade ago and it's already wearing down to the primer.

hbelkins

Quote from: seicer on September 24, 2021, 11:06:59 AM
Speaking of paint, whoever had the painting contract for bridges in the western half of the state... sucked. The paint isn't more than a decade ago and it's already wearing down to the primer.

Yeah, they had some issues and had to have some of the bridges repainted -- possibly at the contractors' expense.

I predict that the removal of one of the US 41 bridges will bite them in the backside. The new I-69 bridge will be easy to shunpike; a lot easier than the I-65 spans in Louisville. I think the traffic demand for a free crossing will overwhelm the single two-lane span, especially since they're keeping the older one.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

seicer

It'll be interesting to see how that turns out. I'll post my aerials of the I-65 and I-265 toll bridges soon (when I am back at home), but it was a night-and-day difference in traffic levels for a weekday. Traffic was heavy on I-265 whereas I-65 was... quite empty. In comparison to I-65, the US 31 Clark Memorial Bridge was bumper-to-bumper into Indiana from Louisville.

Traffic will shunpike if there is a close alternative but I-265 really does have an advantage to providing those easterly connections.

mvak36

Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2021, 01:15:32 PM
Quote from: seicer on September 24, 2021, 11:06:59 AM
Speaking of paint, whoever had the painting contract for bridges in the western half of the state... sucked. The paint isn't more than a decade ago and it's already wearing down to the primer.

Yeah, they had some issues and had to have some of the bridges repainted -- possibly at the contractors' expense.

I predict that the removal of one of the US 41 bridges will bite them in the backside. The new I-69 bridge will be easy to shunpike; a lot easier than the I-65 spans in Louisville. I think the traffic demand for a free crossing will overwhelm the single two-lane span, especially since they're keeping the older one.

I keep wondering if they might do something (adding traffic lights, lowering speed limits, etc.,) to make the shunpike route take more time to get through.
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WKDAVE

Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2021, 01:15:32 PM
Quote from: seicer on September 24, 2021, 11:06:59 AM
Speaking of paint, whoever had the painting contract for bridges in the western half of the state... sucked. The paint isn't more than a decade ago and it's already wearing down to the primer.

Yeah, they had some issues and had to have some of the bridges repainted -- possibly at the contractors' expense.

I predict that the removal of one of the US 41 bridges will bite them in the backside. The new I-69 bridge will be easy to shunpike; a lot easier than the I-65 spans in Louisville. I think the traffic demand for a free crossing will overwhelm the single two-lane span, especially since they're keeping the older one.

The ease of shunpiking is the very reason they have to make it as difficult ("costly") as possible. Otherwise there would be no toll traffic to pay off the bonds. It was either that or toll all bridges.

JREwing78

Quote from: mvak36 on September 24, 2021, 02:45:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2021, 01:15:32 PM
Quote from: seicer on September 24, 2021, 11:06:59 AM
Speaking of paint, whoever had the painting contract for bridges in the western half of the state... sucked. The paint isn't more than a decade ago and it's already wearing down to the primer.

Yeah, they had some issues and had to have some of the bridges repainted -- possibly at the contractors' expense.

I predict that the removal of one of the US 41 bridges will bite them in the backside. The new I-69 bridge will be easy to shunpike; a lot easier than the I-65 spans in Louisville. I think the traffic demand for a free crossing will overwhelm the single two-lane span, especially since they're keeping the older one.

I keep wondering if they might do something (adding traffic lights, lowering speed limits, etc.,) to make the shunpike route take more time to get through.

Henderson certainly will have that open door to redevelop its commercial strip. Will Henderson need to make decisions for it's development and street network based solely on the need for non-residents to continue to use US-41 as a shunpike? It does not.

Once the new I-69 bridges are in place, Henderson's free to make decisions to make its commercial strip a better shopping destination and more pedestrian and cyclist friendly, including introducing a park-like median and actual sidewalks and bike paths along US-41 to beautify it and make it safer and more pleasurable for pedestrians and cyclists to navigate.

It may also mean speed limits and signal timing that doesn't have to optimize throughput on US-41 at the expense of the side streets. US-41 won't need to be a 45-mph roadway anymore - it could be a 30 mph roadway, making it easier for business patrons in vehicles or on foot to navigate the area.

US-41 and US-60 certainly wouldn't need a cloverleaf interchange anymore - it could easily be realigned and downgraded to something more appropriate for an urban area and free up space for business or residential use. They could also realign the roadways to provide more straightforward N-S connectivity between the northern and southern areas of Henderson, seeing as there's only one through street directly connecting these areas now.

If traffic levels truly demand 4 lanes of traffic on US-41 following the opening of the I-69 bridges, that's an indication of either a road network design failure or excessive tolling making the I-69 bridges unattractive. 2 lanes are sufficient to maintain redundancy in the case of a I-69 closure. Make the out-of-town folks too cheap to pay tolls to stay on I-69 work for it a little.

hbelkins

Henderson actually can't do any of the above unless the state cedes control of US 41 to the city -- and to the county, if the section north of the river where Ellis Park is located isn't within the city limits.

I haven't really explored a lot of Henderson, but that strip really isn't the major commercial area of town. It's geared more to highway businesses -- restaurants, gas stations, and hotels -- the best I can tell. It's not the primary retail area.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

edwaleni

From the Ohio River south on US-41 it is divided 4 lane ROW until you hit the Henderson city limits where it narrows to a fourlane with a center left turn median.

The speed in the divided section is 55, comes down to 50 for a little while and then is 45  through most of the city limits until it becomes divided highway again.

The lights are already timed through the area, so I just see a re-timing.

But looking at the businesses in that small area, I would say half the number of gas stations will go out of business or move out to the new US-60 interchange and hotels (especially the franchised ones) will begin their decline as each operator sells off and relocates, again to the US-60 interchange.

The fast food locales on US-41 will follow the hotels and within 5 years after the bridge opens, they will revert to their eventual ethnic food replacements.

Obviously one of the approaches to the newer span will be demolished, so this might be a good time for Henderson to perform some urban renewal and get rid of the current pavement arrangement and build out some sort of boulevard with a curbed/tree filled median with left turn bays.

silverback1065

the section through henderson isn't even us 41 anymore, it's just us 60 and "alt 41". they could just get rid of that road as a state route and through 60 onto 425 and co sign 60 up to the cloverleaf.

hbelkins

Quote from: silverback1065 on September 26, 2021, 10:06:20 AM
the section through henderson isn't even us 41 anymore, it's just us 60 and "alt 41". they could just get rid of that road as a state route and through 60 onto 425 and co sign 60 up to the cloverleaf.

Are you referring to what Owensboro did with US 60; routing it onto the bypass and turning the downtown route over to the city?

US 41 was rerouted onto 425 over to the freeway, as that is the present terminus of I-69. US 41 continues on the old Pennyrile Parkway alignment through the US 60/Alternate 41 interchange and on to the bridge.

At any rate, the "strip" section of Henderson is along US 41, well out of the downtown area.

This map: https://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/SPRS%20Maps/Henderson_city.pdf indicates that the city limits on the north extend to a point between Racetrack and Stratman roads, then runs along the US 41 ROW and then along Wolf Hills Road at the edge of John James Audubon State Park. The bridges and Ellis Park are not within the city limits. If the state ceded US 41 to local control in this area, the county would have to take over the bridge.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

silverback1065

Quote from: hbelkins on September 26, 2021, 09:08:14 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 26, 2021, 10:06:20 AM
the section through henderson isn't even us 41 anymore, it's just us 60 and "alt 41". they could just get rid of that road as a state route and through 60 onto 425 and co sign 60 up to the cloverleaf.

Are you referring to what Owensboro did with US 60; routing it onto the bypass and turning the downtown route over to the city?

US 41 was rerouted onto 425 over to the freeway, as that is the present terminus of I-69. US 41 continues on the old Pennyrile Parkway alignment through the US 60/Alternate 41 interchange and on to the bridge.

At any rate, the "strip" section of Henderson is along US 41, well out of the downtown area.

This map: https://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/SPRS%20Maps/Henderson_city.pdf indicates that the city limits on the north extend to a point between Racetrack and Stratman roads, then runs along the US 41 ROW and then along Wolf Hills Road at the edge of John James Audubon State Park. The bridges and Ellis Park are not within the city limits. If the state ceded US 41 to local control in this area, the county would have to take over the bridge.
Basically, but i didn't realize the strip extended north of the cloverleaf my mistake.

hbelkins

Quote from: silverback1065 on September 26, 2021, 09:10:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 26, 2021, 09:08:14 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 26, 2021, 10:06:20 AM
the section through henderson isn't even us 41 anymore, it's just us 60 and "alt 41". they could just get rid of that road as a state route and through 60 onto 425 and co sign 60 up to the cloverleaf.

Are you referring to what Owensboro did with US 60; routing it onto the bypass and turning the downtown route over to the city?

US 41 was rerouted onto 425 over to the freeway, as that is the present terminus of I-69. US 41 continues on the old Pennyrile Parkway alignment through the US 60/Alternate 41 interchange and on to the bridge.

At any rate, the "strip" section of Henderson is along US 41, well out of the downtown area.

This map: https://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/SPRS%20Maps/Henderson_city.pdf indicates that the city limits on the north extend to a point between Racetrack and Stratman roads, then runs along the US 41 ROW and then along Wolf Hills Road at the edge of John James Audubon State Park. The bridges and Ellis Park are not within the city limits. If the state ceded US 41 to local control in this area, the county would have to take over the bridge.
Basically, but i didn't realize the strip extended north of the cloverleaf my mistake.

Actually the locals refer to the section between the cloverleaf and the bridges as "the strip." The concurrent section of US 60 and Alternate US 41 is called Green Street. KY 351 (2nd Street) is the dividing line between South Green and North Green.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Life in Paradise

Since no county wants to have the responsibility for a bridge over the Ohio, I still think that it would be a decent compromise to rebadge the current "strip" part of 41 to become Alt 41, and it could run up to Waterworks Road on the north side of the bridge.  That's the state line, and since Indiana doesn't like alternate or suffixed US routes, they could simply label the exit "to Alt 41" at Veteran's Memorial Parkway and current US41. I'm going to expect that the city of Evansville will not want to receive responsibility for the current US41 through town so that INDOT can reroute the road completely on I-64 and then down I-69 on the east side of EVV, so US41 will go over the bridge from that short stub of I-69 west of the new bridge approach.

hbelkins

I don't think there will be any move to reroute US 41 onto the toll bridge.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

mvak36

Quote from: hbelkins on September 27, 2021, 03:43:10 PM
I don't think there will be any move to reroute US 41 onto the toll bridge.

Isn't there something about US highways not being allowed on toll roads/bridges? I know about US412 in OK and those toll bridges along the PA-NJ border, so I'm not sure if that rule is enforced anymore or not.
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